Stricter requirements, new application forms for ED visa extensions

[george]

ED VISA ABUSE

Stricter requirements, new application forms for ED visa extensions

BANGKOK: -- The Ministry of Eduction (MOE) yesterday announced new, stricter requirements for Education visa extensions.

New application forms for education visa extensions have just been released.

The new requirements are:

1. Two year visa history of the student now required (currently only required for applications submitted in Bangkok)

2. Extra documents required

• Proof of income. (to see if the student can support themselves and not work illegally)
• Reason for long stay in Thailand, if extended time in Thailand prior to application. ( to check the student is not just a visa runner who cannot get any more tourists visas.)

Pending applications must be resubmitted using the new forms.

The new forms, which are mandatory,"Personal history check" and "Purpose of attending the course" are available for download here:

app_1.pdf

app_purpose_1.pdf

The ED visa system has been scrutinised by The Thai Immigration Bureau and Ministry of Education for a long time, and it's widely known that foreigners have been abusing the ED visa system. Thaivisa.com believe the new, stricter requirements is to prevent applicants using ED visas to work illegally in Thailand.

Thaivisa.com thanks Walen School of Thai for pointing out these new requirements.

-- 2013-12-24

[Timwin]

This will effectively kill the ED business. If for example a book author, receiving money from abroad. What is his status?

He or she cannot get a work permit because the business has nothing to do with Thailand. The same with thousands of different freelancers out there, not working locally.

What if you have your own savings but the form asks for "the person who is supporting you financially". Then if you have a person, for example your wealthy uncle in Italy, who does not speak English. They are going to call him and speak Italian?

Edited December 24, 2013 by Timwin

[KittenKong]

Surely the only real surprise about this is that it didn't happen sooner? The writing has been on the blackboard for ages.

[ubonjoe]

You just say that you are supporting yourself. Then if they want proof show some form of proof that you have funds coming into the country from abroad. The best proof would be a Thai bank book showing transfers in.

[david555]

This will effectively kill the ED business. If for example a book author, receiving money from abroad. What is his status?

He or she cannot get a work permit because the business has nothing to do with Thailand. The same with thousands of different freelancers out there, not working locally.

What if you have your own savings but the form asks for "the person who is supporting you financially". Then if you have a person, for example your wealthy uncle in Italy, who does not speak English. They are going to call him and speak Italian?

That's why Embassy's & Consulates are for...., they have people who speak/ understand local languages .

[david555]

Surely the only real surprise about this is that it didn't happen sooner? The writing has been on the blackboard for ages.

That comes as Language schools put too much t the visa as publicity and second only the language teaching ........some are to money hungry , it comes as no surprise those new requirements..,.more discreet publicity would have avoid this

Edited December 24, 2013 by david555

[bobroper]

You just say that you are supporting yourself. Then if they want proof show some form of proof that you have funds coming into the country from abroad. The best proof would be a Thai bank book showing transfers in.

I am on an ED visa and yes, I am supporting myself with a government pension every 28 days transferred to a Thai bank and personal pensions again to a Thai bank every month although in my case, I can revert back to a non-imm O visa at any time.

What is very important is that you attend Thai language classes on a regular basis. I found that learning the language can be quite difficult being a tonal language but if you are committed to study it can also be enjoyable.

As has been pointed out on many occasions, the ED visa has been abused.

[AyG]

Any idea why these forms asking about the applicant's religion and that of his/her mother and father? I haven't previously encounter any government interest in my deeply held belief in Pastafarianism.

[moe666]

I predicted this several years ago when will the do not they realize we support Thailand with our meager spending, how could they do this even though I work here illegally. The whining and crying back in the day when they went to 15 day land border runs was classic.

[brucetefl]

I was in Pattaya a few days ago and saw lots of advertisements like this:

GET A VISA TO LIVE IN THAILAND

Stay in Thailand without visa runs

Get an ED Visa!

Study Thai

[HeavyDrinker]

This is what happens when too many people drink from the same trough.

...at my local Immi office I've seen the officers start to quiz the ED visa merchants in Thai...One poor chap had everything handed back to him with a firm but cheery Nolle Prosequi from the lass dealing with him who informed him he could extend by going back from whence he got his visa...

Poor lad was almost in tears outside the office. The bottom line is that when you think you're smarter than they system the system has a nasty habit of turning around and biting a chap a sharp one on the bottom.

[Suradit69]

This will effectively kill the ED business. If for example a book author, receiving money from abroad. What is his status?

He or she cannot get a work permit because the business has nothing to do with Thailand. The same with thousands of different freelancers out there, not working locally.

What if you have your own savings but the form asks for "the person who is supporting you financially". Then if you have a person, for example your wealthy uncle in Italy, who does not speak English. They are going to call him and speak Italian?

"Then if you have a person, for example your wealthy uncle in Italy ..."

I'm sure that effect thousands as well. All these hypothetical problems may negatively impact some of those who are abusing the system, but those who come here for a year or two to actually study should not have a problem. If you are a student who has no intention of working here and who isn't trying to avoid the financial requirements for other visas/extensions, then you ought to be able to provide evidence of financial resources that will keep you afloat while "hitting the books."

The increased scrutiny is a result of all those who are abusing the system, not some arbitrary whim on the part of the government. Once again, everyone on the planet who wants to stay in Thailand is not going to be able to. Laws are made to serve the best interest of Thailand, not to keep tourists all comfy cozy.If you want to study Thai or anything else on offer here, it's probably on offer in a university near you in your home country.

How often on the Thai Visa forum do posters say they can't qualify for this or that sort of visa or extension and the "helpful" response is usually, "get a ED Visa."

You have to believe that someone in Immigrations reads at least some of these threads here and on other websites that offer suggestions on how to circumvent the rules, whether it's using ED visas when you have no real desire to study or fabricating your level of pension income on an affidavit or travelling to certain neighboring countries that allow serial visa applications ...

You can almost predict where the next crackdown will occur based on what strategies are endorsed here. Rather than blame the Immigrations people, it's the rule-benders who make it more difficult for all of us including those who are playing the game by the rules,

Almost certainly another area that will be "adjusted" before much longer will be proof of income and financial resources to support marriage and retirement extensions. Questions (and "solutions") about those requirements are posted here daily. Big Brother is watching.

Edited December 24, 2013 by Suradit69

[Suradit69]

Any idea why these forms asking about the applicant's religion and that of his/her mother and father? I haven't previously encounter any government interest in my deeply held belief in Pastafarianism.

Maybe to screen out Muslims who claim to want to study pig farming or atheists who want to study Buddhism

[bobroper]

This will effectively kill the ED business. If for example a book author, receiving money from abroad. What is his status?

He or she cannot get a work permit because the business has nothing to do with Thailand. The same with thousands of different freelancers out there, not working locally.

What if you have your own savings but the form asks for "the person who is supporting you financially". Then if you have a person, for example your wealthy uncle in Italy, who does not speak English. They are going to call him and speak Italian?

"Then if you have a person, for example your wealthy uncle in Italy ..."

I'm sure that effect thousands as well. All these hypothetical problems may negatively impact some of those who are abusing the system, but those who come here for a year or two to actually study should not have a problem. If you are a student who has no intention of working here and who isn't trying to avoid the financial requirements for other visas/extensions, then you ought to be able to provide evidence of financial resources that will keep you afloat while "hitting the books."

The increased scrutiny is a result of all those who are abusing the system, not some arbitrary whim on the part of the government. Once again, everyone in the world who wants to stay long term in Thailand is not going to be entitled to. Laws are made to serve the best interest of Thailand, not to ensure that everyone in the world who want to come here will be able to.

How often on the Thai Visa forum do posters say they can't qualify for this or that sort of visa or extension and the "helpful" response is usually, "get a ED Visa."

You have to believe that someone in Immigrations reads at least some of these threads here and on other websites that offer suggestions on how to circumvent the rules, whether it's using ED visas when you have no real desire to study or fabricating your level of pension income on an affidavit or travelling to certain neighboring countries that allow serial visa applications ...

You can almost predict where the next crackdown will occur based on what strategies are endorsed here. Rather than blame the Immigrations people, it's the rule-benders who make it more difficult for all of us including those who are playing the game by the rules,

Almost certainly another area that will be "adjusted" before much longer will be proof of income and financial resources to support marriage and retirement extensions. Questions (and "solutions") about those requirements are posted here daily. Big Brother is watching.

How often on the Thai Visa forum do posters say they can't qualify for this or that sort of visa or extension and the "helpful" response is usually, "get a ED Visa."

--------------------------------------

Exactly.

[anon467367354]

It was a language school that pointed out these "abuses"?

Is one trying to kill his own business or be the only school that offers a solution?

song sai maak!

[Timwin]

Laws are made to serve the best interest of Thailand, not to ensure that everyone in the world who want to come here will be able to.

Another law book moralist there. Every time there is a change in the immigration laws, your kinds of "I predicted this and it is about time!" folks come running to gloat in Thaivisa threads. Except of course when it is your visa class which is being changed...

[impulse]

I helped several Chinese people get their ED visas to the USA and Canada.

One question that came up repeatedly on the rejections (actually, requests for more info), was how the education was going to pay out WHEN they returned to China. Usually, a letter from their employer stating that their degree plan would entitle them to a higher salary was sufficient.

I can't see where studying "Thai Language" would qualify if the Thai ED visa authorities asked the same question. In fact, I have a hard time seeing where speaking Thai is useful unless I planned to stay in Thailand, which makes justification for the ED Visa a circular argument- I'm not qualified to stay in Thailand under any other visa criteria, so I'm going to get an ED visa to study Thai so I can better assimilate in a country where I'm not entitled to stay?

My heart goes out to all those whose lives will be disrupted, but like other posters have said, the writing has been on the wall.

[kingstonkid]

You just say that you are supporting yourself. Then if they want proof show some form of proof that you have funds coming into the country from abroad. The best proof would be a Thai bank book showing transfers in.

This is going to really hurt a lot of English Teachers that have been using the ED visa while they teach.

The only income they have is teaching but they are not going to be able to show it.

This is also going to mean more work for Embassies as they are going to have to verify the income much like they do for us younger folk.

Should be interesting to see how this works out.

I agree though with all the abuse it is about time they did something to resolve the abuse.

[ubonjoe]

Two off topics posts removed.

[Time Traveller]

Proof of income? Aren't they studying, and not working?

[apalink_thailand]

Proof of income? Aren't they studying, and not working?

They still need to eat.

[ubonjoe]

Proof of income? Aren't they studying, and not working?

Income from outside Thailand is what they want to see.

[khaowong1]

I've heard this was coming. Here's a real beauty. I'm a Buddhist monk. In the past, I was given a "R" visa for religious study's. Now they are giving foreign monks, yep, you got it, a "ED" visa.. and asking us for proof of income.. we're monks, we don't have an income.. WTH.

[Mario2008]

2 replies (including one of my own), removed as they replied to removed content.

Lets keep the discussion on topic and discuss the change and its consequences, not how some people abuse the system.

[Roger Lee]

I wonder how much money one has to make to satisfy the income requirement.

[Mario2008]

I've heard this was coming. Here's a real beauty. I'm a Buddhist monk. In the past, I was given a "R" visa for religious study's. Now they are giving foreign monks, yep, you got it, a "ED" visa.. and asking us for proof of income.. we're monks, we don't have an income.. WTH.

I missed that they are now giving monks an ED visa. Interesting.

But I think/hope that for monks they will make exeptions and you instead show proof from the abot thay you will stay at the temple and live as a monk.

[ubonjoe]

I wonder how much money one has to make to satisfy the income requirement.

If they were to use the requirements to get a ED visa it would be 20k baht.

[ChokDeeMak]

Correct!!! The rule benders always ruin it for the people that do it the correct way.
So now.... you cannot even work part time? What about Foreign exchange students?
I actually want to get a ED visa but it looks like I am tooooooo late.

I speak Thai but I will need more than my GF to help teach me how to read it.
Though, Language schools are also good for Japanese and Chinese .....sometimes.

[KED]

Have they set the amount of overseas income that should be sufficient to obtain an ED visa?

[bobroper]

Proof of income? Aren't they studying, and not working?

Income from outside Thailand is what they want to see.

Correct. How can you study whatever in a foreign country and not have sufficient funds in which to live in that country. The income therefore needs to originate from outside Thailand.