whats the difference between kop khun ka, and kop khun na ka?

[celso]

I've noticed it is mostly girls that use 'na', but apart from that I cant figure out the difference. I asked a thai friend but he just said it sounds nicer... is there any difference in meaning?

[txp158]

It's probably like the difference between thanks and thank you. It's hard for a non-native speaker to understand.

Anyway, na ka appears more sweet, child like while ka is more official.

[saisam]

Khop khun na is to show more friendly; khop khun ka is to show more respect.

[Ajaan]

na in that case is what's sometimes called a "hortatory particle" in linguistics. It has a variety of uses, sometimes to soften a request or statement, make it "cuter" or "friendlier" (which is the case in the context you describe), or, in other cases, to ensure that the hearer understands or is in some sort of agreement with what's you've just said (kind of like "okay?" or "know what I mean?" or "know what I'm sayin'?" in English, but nowhere near as annoying-sounding in Thai).

Particles like na are really difficult to understand across their entire semantic range for non-native speakers (unless one already speaks a language like Khmer, which has the same particle with the exact same usage). When my students (of Khmer) ask for an explanation of na, I tell them something that they really don't like to hear, that they have to hear it in a very wide and numerous range of social situations for probably a couple years before they get a solid sense of how it's used, and then it will usually be another couple years until they're ready to use it correctly themselves. I would give the same advice to those learning Thai.

Think of it this way: the final particles (like na) in SEAsian languages are an advanced feature of the language, used to express subtlety and nuance, much like intonation/stress in English. Consider these sentences, with the changes in meaning that come from stressing the word surrounded by asterisks:

I didn't know you were *coming*! (I thought you would just phone, etc.)

I didn't know *you* were coming... (I thought somebody else would come)

*I* didn't know you were coming! (Someone else may have been aware you were coming, but I most certainly was not...why would you expect me to know?)

Now, think about explaining the use of stress in those different examples to a non-native speaker of English (who can currently speak about as well as you can speak Thai), and then think about how you long it would take it for them to be able to use stress correctly in real-life communication...

Edited December 25, 2013 by Ajaan

[LaraC]

..may i also add that ive heard (and used) na in some circumstances to lessen (soften) a curt remark or scold..ie: why have you come so late na? (in Thai). Which becomes more of a gentle scolding rather than too blunt.

..may i also add that i (and my thai female friends) think its a bit weird (and at times creepy) when guys who are speaking english or writing english overuse na. Ie: how are you na? what will you do today na? ..I humbly suggest pulling back on the Na's when writing and speaking in English!

[SlyAnimal]

From memory, there are two different tones of it, one which makes a question into a command, and another which softens the sentence.

Which makes it pretty much the same as Ajaan said, just modifies the tone of the sentence to make it softer.

I think girls/ladyboys/extra polite men use it more often because they want to be more polite/softer, whereas men usually want to be a bit more masculine, so just a krap is sufficient (or say krap pom to essentially do the same thing as na instead). Although I think men will use it if they're being very polite & are in a lower station than someone else. But that's just my own assumptions based on who I've heard it used by and when.

The different tone na for commands I've only ever heard women use, but that's probably because most of the teachers I work with are women (And it's more likely that teachers will issue commands to students, rather than friends issuing commands to friends lol).

Edit: Funnily enough, when I asked my gf she said there was only one Na, but it has different uses. When I checked my dictionary though, as I was sure there's 2 uses, it came up with both นะ and น่ะ with the meanings I said above.

[celso]

Hmm ok I think I understand.

When saying thanks - kop kun kap - I can add a 'na' when I want to be cute? (like flirting with the 7/11 girls?)

I knew already it is also used to soften a statement, or indicate a suggestion, but that's far beyond my current abilities in Thai anyway

Edited December 25, 2013 by celso

[FiftyTwo]

girly thankyou, and even more girly thankyou.

If you're a guy, leave out "na" unless you're a bit effeminate.

Edited December 25, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[Somsrisonphimai]

Ka normally uses when Thais talk to the people who are older than them to show their politeness. They don't end their sentence with Na when they speak to the older because it would sound disrespectful to the older. They use Na when they speak with the people who are younger than them.

[LaraC]

Hmm ok I think I understand.

When saying thanks - kop kun kap - I can add a 'na' when I want to be cute? (like flirting with the 7/11 girls?)

I knew already it is also used to soften a statement, or indicate a suggestion, but that's far beyond my current abilities in Thai anyway

Please stay away from Na as a guy. ..unless talking to children (and you know how to use it).

Seriously..guys using na, especially if mixed with English, just sound a bit creepy.

[celso]

 

Hmm ok I think I understand.

When saying thanks - kop kun kap - I can add a 'na' when I want to be cute? (like flirting with the 7/11 girls?)

I knew already it is also used to soften a statement, or indicate a suggestion, but that's far beyond my current abilities in Thai anyway

Please stay away from Na as a guy. ..unless talking to children (and you know how to use it).

Seriously..guys using na, especially if mixed with English, just sound a bit creepy.

Why would you use it in English.. im talking about thai.

[LaraC]

 

Hmm ok I think I understand.

When saying thanks - kop kun kap - I can add a 'na' when I want to be cute? (like flirting with the 7/11 girls?)

I knew already it is also used to soften a statement, or indicate a suggestion, but that's far beyond my current abilities in Thai anyway

Please stay away from Na as a guy. ..unless talking to children (and you know how to use it).

Seriously..guys using na, especially if mixed with English, just sound a bit creepy.

Why would you use it in English.. im talking about thai.

You would be surpised at the amount of guys that use Na at the end of sentances in English (both written and spoken)! Id say be careful using it even when speaking Thai..for a guy it can sound a bit patronising and creepy (when not speaking to kids). It can be a bit daddy-like. (ie: along the lines of "hi cutey-pie")

[FiftyTwo]

 

Hmm ok I think I understand.

When saying thanks - kop kun kap - I can add a 'na' when I want to be cute? (like flirting with the 7/11 girls?)

I knew already it is also used to soften a statement, or indicate a suggestion, but that's far beyond my current abilities in Thai anyway

Please stay away from Na as a guy. ..unless talking to children (and you know how to use it).

Seriously..guys using na, especially if mixed with English, just sound a bit creepy.

Why would you use it in English.. im talking about thai.

You would be surpised at the amount of guys that use Na at the end of sentances in English (both written and spoken)! Id say be careful using it even when speaking Thai..for a guy it can sound a bit patronising and creepy (when not speaking to kids). It can be a bit daddy-like. (ie: along the lines of "hi cutey-pie")

tv series rome, brutus used it all the time, maybe they all fans of brutus.

[bifftastic]

You can often hear Thai men using นะครับ (or shortened to นะคับ) after sentences. I don't think it's feminine at all really. If you go around over-using and over pronouncing น่า all the time (sticking it on the end of every sentence) then you might sound a bit effeminate (and a bit weird), but the odd short นะคับ sprinkled around your sentences will just make you sound polite.

It is true that the use of particles in general is quite difficult for speakers of European languages to get their heads around. So exactly where you sprinkle them isn't as easy as you might think.

[bifftastic]

You can often hear Thai men using นะครับ (or shortened to นะคับ) after sentences. I don't think it's feminine at all really. If you go around over-using and over pronouncing น่า all the time (sticking it on the end of every sentence) then you might sound a bit effeminate (and a bit weird), but the odd short นะคับ sprinkled around your sentences will just make you sound polite.

It is true that the use of particles in general is quite difficult for speakers of European languages to get their heads around. So exactly where you sprinkle them isn't as easy as you might think.

[PaullyW]

na in that case is what's sometimes called a "hortatory particle" in linguistics. It has a variety of uses, sometimes to soften a request or statement, make it "cuter" or "friendlier" (which is the case in the context you describe), or, in other cases, to ensure that the hearer understands or is in some sort of agreement with what's you've just said (kind of like "okay?" or "know what I mean?" or "know what I'm sayin'?" in English, but nowhere near as annoying-sounding in Thai).

Particles like na are really difficult to understand across their entire semantic range for non-native speakers (unless one already speaks a language like Khmer, which has the same particle with the exact same usage). When my students (of Khmer) ask for an explanation of na, I tell them something that they really don't like to hear, that they have to hear it in a very wide and numerous range of social situations for probably a couple years before they get a solid sense of how it's used, and then it will usually be another couple years until they're ready to use it correctly themselves. I would give the same advice to those learning Thai.

Think of it this way: the final particles (like na) in SEAsian languages are an advanced feature of the language, used to express subtlety and nuance, much like intonation/stress in English. Consider these sentences, with the changes in meaning that come from stressing the word surrounded by asterisks:

I didn't know you were *coming*! (I thought you would just phone, etc.)

I didn't know *you* were coming... (I thought somebody else would come)

*I* didn't know you were coming! (Someone else may have been aware you were coming, but I most certainly was not...why would you expect me to know?)

Now, think about explaining the use of stress in those different examples to a non-native speaker of English (who can currently speak about as well as you can speak Thai), and then think about how you long it would take it for them to be able to use stress correctly in real-life communication...

What an excellent post. Thank you.

Although, I would imagine a neutral third party would find the concept of stress in English to be far easier to understand than the highly contextual and probably much more flexible and also less direct use of particles like na/la etc.

I don't think the two concepts are equally difficult.