Should Thailand tax junk food to help fight obesity?

[transam]

How is government pressure to force big food companies to at least OFFER healthier choices to consumers controlling people's lives, it's the opposite, it's supporting giving the people MORE POWER to control their own lives.

Rubbish..

Mrs.Trans eats nothing farang, but is putting on weight, eating Thai/Lao favourite dishes and does not drink booze. Why is she putting on weight ?

Yet again, her food plan can be looked at critically on the "I'm Too Fat" forum. This is about social policy here, not your personal problems. Cheers.

Rubbish...

She is putting on weight cos she has money in her pocket to eat MORE of what she likes. Plain and simple. That is why more folk in LOS are putting on weight in many cases. Money in pocket, that is why your theory is aimed at removing that money in the pocket via taxes to solve YOUR problem. YOU blame farang stuff, you are wrong, folk will eat what they like and if they have money to spare they will do more of that, eating their own food.

[David48]

How is government pressure to force big food companies to at least OFFER healthier choices to consumers controlling people's lives, it's the opposite, it's supporting giving the people MORE POWER to control their own lives.

Thanks, but no thanks.

I don't need the government controlling or influencing more of my life then it already does ...

So, you are going to 'force big food companies' ... what about the medium or smaller sized ones?

Companies being forced by governments to produce a certain type of food ... sounds a bit of a communist idea to me.

But, I would agree with you on one point JT you raised early on in this, or another OP.

The use of Trans Fats has been widely acknowledged as not being good for you.

.

[cdnvic]

Please stay on topic. Personal arguments will me looked upon most unfavourably, and several of you cannot afford anymore warnings.

[mogandave]

I was at 7-11 today and they had a wide variety of unsweetened teas, whole, low-fat and no-fat milk, soy milk, diet soda, vegetable juices, fruit juices and of course water. These seem to be something of a healthier alternative to sugary fizzy-drinks.

They also had plain yoghurt, a wide variety of nuts & peas, seaweed, lunch meats and some heat & eat meals that did not look too bad, most of this stuff is healthy enough for a cheap meal at a convenience store.

I am just not seeing that alternatives are not available.

[Jingthing]

I was at 7-11 today and they had a wide variety of unsweetened teas, whole, low-fat and no-fat milk, soy milk, diet soda, vegetable juices, fruit juices and of course water. These seem to be something of a healthier alternative to sugary fizzy-drinks.

They also had plain yoghurt, a wide variety of nuts & peas, seaweed, lunch meats and some heat & eat meals that did not look too bad, most of this stuff is healthy enough for a cheap meal at a convenience store.

I am just not seeing that alternatives are not available.

Teas -- no way was there a wide variety of unsweetened teas. Perhaps one or two. Some convenience stores have them, when I used to buy them, it was hit and miss. In real Thai areas, usually NOT.

Soy milk -- I have never seen an unsweetened soy milk in a 7-11. In some larger retail stores there are sometimes low fat options, no sugar options, but never saw a low fat or no fat / no sugar soy milk option.

Diet soda -- proven to promote obesity

Vegetable juices -- normally high salt, in Thailand probably usually high sugar as well

Fruit juices -- in Thai 7-11 would have massive adds of high sugar, would have to go to an elite expat market to pay massive markups for a healthier juice

Nuts and peas at 7-11 -- FRIED, probably in questionable PALM OIL

Yogurt -- haven't noticed unsweetened in my local 7-11s, but if you say so ...

Seaweed -- FRIED, probably in questionable PALM OIL

Lunch meats -- highly processed, highly sugared, high in fats, chemicals, obesity and cancer risks

Heat and eat meals -- loaded with chemicals, probably palm oil, and high in sugar

So you say you're not seeing that alternatives are not available.

Interesting.

Yes I am very aware of these issues and in my opinion the typical 7-11 / Family Mart in Thailand is a classic case study of the spread of the OBESOGENIC ENVIRONMENT in this country. But yes you need to have the consciousness to see that. For the masses, wouldn't it nice to make it somewhat EASIER to have these BETTER choices? The average person is just not going to even know what warning signs to be looking for ... which is a good reason to force food producers to stick on clear DANGER LEVEL icons on mass marketed products. Outside of Cloud Cuckooland, not Thailand, they won't do good stuff like this unless forced. Wish it wasn't so, but it is so.

Then if you don't want those kinds of warnings on your package, you make products that don't warrant them. OMG -- an incentive! Ciggie brands can't do that, but food companies could.

My humble suggestion for a HIGH SUGAR CONTENT warning icon -- a big FAT Thai child!

Edited January 16, 2014 by Jingthing

[RandomSand]

I don't agree with taxes on any foods.

However; If there was a tax on luxury foods (not junk as that it unspecific) then the proceeds would be best spent on helping the hungry who don't have enough to eat

I don't don't agree with taxing "junk food" to pay for health care... If someone wants to eat junk then good luck to them.

[RandomSand]

The average person is just not going to even know what warning signs to be looking for ... which is a good reason to force food producers to stick on clear DANGER LEVEL icons on mass marketed products.

Yes this is very worthwhile and can be implemented by forcing firms to affix labels to their products.

[David48]

I was at 7-11 today and they had a wide variety of unsweetened teas, whole, low-fat and no-fat milk, soy milk, diet soda, vegetable juices, fruit juices and of course water. These seem to be something of a healthier alternative to sugary fizzy-drinks.

They also had plain yoghurt, a wide variety of nuts & peas, seaweed, lunch meats and some heat & eat meals that did not look too bad, most of this stuff is healthy enough for a cheap meal at a convenience store.

I am just not seeing that alternatives are not available.

Teas -- no way was there a wide variety of unsweetened teas. Perhaps one or two. Some convenience stores have them, when I used to buy them, it was hit and miss. In real Thai areas, usually NOT.

Soy milk -- I have never seen an unsweetened soy milk in a 7-11. In some larger retail stores there are sometimes low fat options, no sugar options, but never saw a low fat or no fat / no sugar soy milk option.

Diet soda -- proven to promote obesity

Vegetable juices -- normally high salt, in Thailand probably usually high sugar as well

Fruit juices -- in Thai 7-11 would have massive adds of high sugar, would have to go to an elite expat market to pay massive markups for a healthier juice

Nuts and peas at 7-11 -- FRIED, probably in questionable PALM OIL

Yogurt -- haven't noticed unsweetened in my local 7-11s, but if you say so ...

Seaweed -- FRIED, probably in questionable PALM OIL

Lunch meats -- highly processed, highly sugared, high in fats, chemicals, obesity and cancer risks

Heat and eat meals -- loaded with chemicals, probably palm oil, and high in sugar

So you say you're not seeing that alternatives are not available.

Interesting.

Yes I am very aware of these issues and in my opinion the typical 7-11 / Family Mart in Thailand is a classic case study of the spread of the OBESOGENIC ENVIRONMENT in this country. But yes you need to have the consciousness to see that. For the masses, wouldn't it nice to make it somewhat EASIER to have these BETTER choices?

Jingthing ... you can't comment on what morgandave witnessed in his recent visit to the 7-11 ... you weren't with him.

There are regional variances between the stores.

Still can't believe that you are going with the "Diet soda -- proven to promote obesity" ... and please no ... no link to some wacky scientific study that no calorie soft drinks makes you fatter.

Dude ... eat to live ... don't live to eat ... you will have much more fun ...

.

[cashpower]

.

force food producers to stick on clear DANGER LEVEL icons on mass marketed products.

along with a tinfoil hat in every package

[Jingthing]

The average person is just not going to even know what warning signs to be looking for ... which is a good reason to force food producers to stick on clear DANGER LEVEL icons on mass marketed products.

Yes this is very worthwhile and can be implemented by forcing firms to affix labels to their products.

That's an OK to start but doesn't address warnings.

Like if a product is excessively packed with sugar / fake sugar, some clue that eating that product is directly linked to causing OBESITY.

[Jingthing]

.

force food producers to stick on clear DANGER LEVEL icons on mass marketed products.

along with a tinfoil hat in every package

Could be problematical considering how many processed products are MICROWAVED!

Edited January 16, 2014 by Jingthing

[cashpower]

I'm not saying it's a perfect solution but we have limited options. if we shoot the fatties on sight we will have the human rights pussies whining about it. i just wish there was an easier way for us to run everybody elses life

[RandomSand]

Once, after a few weeks of eating very healthy, I had two microwaved ready meals from a well known mini-mart... High as a kite I was. Like on drugs. Amazed and wanting to perform a test; I then went to a well known fast food restaurant and ordered a set including the fizzy pop... ate it... felt totally high, like I'd dropped an E.

The "chemicals" that are in fast food are definitely different *and stronger* than those found in the western fast food, in my experience.

..So could it be that it's regulation about what's actually in the food - rather than punitive taxes - which is needed ?

Edited January 16, 2014 by RandomSand

[transam]

Once, after a few weeks of eating very healthy, I had two microwaved ready meals from a well known mini-mart... High as a kite I was. Like on drugs. Amazed and wanting to perform a test; I then went to a well known fast food restaurant and ordered a set including the fizzy pop... ate it... felt totally high, like I'd dropped an E.

The "chemicals" that are in fast food are defiantly different than those in the west, IMHE.

Perhaps your body received what it needed..........

[Jingthing]

Once, after a few weeks of eating very healthy, I had two microwaved ready meals from a well known mini-mart... High as a kite I was. Like on drugs. Amazed and wanting to perform a test; I then went to a well known fast food restaurant and ordered a set including the fizzy pop... ate it... felt totally high, like I'd dropped an E.

The "chemicals" that are in fast food are definitely different *and stronger* than those found in the western fast food, in my experience.

That's fascinating! Could be another factor in their popularity!

[RandomSand]

Perhaps someone with scientific knowledge can contribute about this...?...

It seems to me that when food companies alter the chemical composition of basic food-stuffs (example MSG is a more basic structure of salt) that they simplify the chemical structure in a way not dissimilar to what happens when cocaine is free-based into crack.

TIT; those in power (i.e have an interest in their franchises) don't want these addictive foods taxed... they want to sell them at a price so consumers will happily choose them over healthy alternatives.

[Jingthing]

Of course, I don't know about Thailand, but it's a sure bet that the western big food industry companies also have their hands in the medical care (and funeral) business as well. Probably also the "diet industry" because the business model for that is customers for life as the vast majority of obese people never actually succeed in long term weight loss maintenance.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Jingthing

[cashpower]

it's all starting to make sense now.

"big food" 'big' food is in cahoots with "big food" 'small' food.

we are going to need 2-ply tinfoil to handle this

[StreetCowboy]

Perhaps someone with scientific knowledge can contribute about this...?...

It seems to me that when food companies alter the chemical composition of basic food-stuffs (example MSG is a more basic structure of salt) that they simplify the chemical structure in a way not dissimilar to what happens when cocaine is free-based into crack.

TIT; those in power (i.e have an interest in their franchises) don't want these addictive foods taxed... they want to sell them at a price so consumers will happily choose them over healthy alternatives.

How is monosodium glutamate a simplified version of diatomic sodium chloride?

[Jingthing]

It's not practical to go after small operators. But with big companies, it IS possible. Also there is plenty of healthy food being sold in Thailand traditionally at produce markets. They are part of the more healthy traditional Thai food culture and certainly not a target of reform. Well, on the other hand the chemicals in the produce is a REAL problem and not well regulated in Thailand, but that's really another topic entirely from obesity promoting factors.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Jingthing

[cashpower]

at produce markets. They are part of the more healthy traditional Thai food culture and certainly not a target of reform. .

good point. maybe we could target them on their fashion sense?

[RandomSand]

Perhaps someone with scientific knowledge can contribute about this...?...

It seems to me that when food companies alter the chemical composition of basic food-stuffs (example MSG is a more basic structure of salt) that they simplify the chemical structure in a way not dissimilar to what happens when cocaine is free-based into crack.

TIT; those in power (i.e have an interest in their franchises) don't want these addictive foods taxed... they want to sell them at a price so consumers will happily choose them over healthy alternatives.

How is monosodium glutamate a simplified version of diatomic sodium chloride?

Hmm, maybe that assertion is totally incorrect, I agree. But I'm telling you I read some stuff about Fructose that would make you weep. If not weep, then quickly reach for the nearest roll of tin-foil.

Edited January 16, 2014 by RandomSand

[StreetCowboy]

I would be surprised if fructose was a problem, since surely it is one of the principal sugars we evolved to eat. But you are right, I remember reading someone wanging off about how it was much worse than sucrose (or perhaps it was vice versa).

I remember when fat was bad and oil was good, I remember when potatoes were OK but chips were not, but throughout it all, tax has always been seen as something undesirable, and to be minimised as best we can.

Obviously, bureaucrats and reveners may take a different view, corrupt ones probably more so than honest ones.

SC

[Jingthing]

Even without ANY tax tweaking, there are other governmental measures that could be helpful as well. As mentioned, leaning on the large food companies on warning labeling and also large chains mandates to OFFER the healthier choices (at least one) for each TYPE of product line. If I was in charge, I'd hire some super slick advertising / PR / marketing types to come up with a really cool youth oriented THAI themed campaign that ties it all together graphically and thematically, from the labeling icons to the public media spots to the educational programs in schools, etc. The food companies selling the crapola do that, you've got to fight fire with fire. In other words SELL obesity prevention the exact same way KFC sells fried chicken!

Edited January 16, 2014 by Jingthing

[RandomSand]

First they feed us crap, then they want to bloody tax us! Do these evil overloads have no mercy ?

How can we be sure you're not part of the conspiracy, Jingthing ?

Let me guess... You want to ban tin-foil because it's harmful to the "environment",

Edited January 16, 2014 by RandomSand

[cashpower]

. If I was in charge,

wait. what? they havent offered you the job yet? outrageous!. maybe we could petition the err person to have you installed into a suitably powerful position. leave it with me i'll make a few calls

[Jingthing]

. If I was in charge,

wait. what? they havent offered you the job yet? outrageous!. maybe we could petition the err person to have you installed into a suitably powerful position. leave it with me i'll make a few calls

That's a sweet offer but I'm sure there are much better qualified candidates for the job.

[RandomSand]

... If I was in charge, I'd hire some super slick advertising / PR / marketing types...

Jingthing for Mayor of Pattaya ?

Well You could do some good work on the public transportation but I fear that the city of sin would morph into a fancy boutique-filled, Soho-esque, over-priced, orwellian nightmare under your control.

[StreetCowboy]

Even without ANY tax tweaking, there are other governmental measures that could be helpful as well. As mentioned, leaning on the large food companies on warning labeling and also large chains mandates to OFFER the healthier choices (at least one) for each TYPE of product line. If I was in charge, I'd hire some super slick advertising / PR / marketing types to come up with a really cool youth oriented THAI themed campaign that ties it all together graphically and thematically, from the labeling icons to the public media spots to the educational programs in schools, etc. The food companies selling the crapola do that, you've got to fight fire with fire. In other words SELL obesity prevention the exact same way KFC sells fried chicken!

Good. I'm glad we've persuaded you away from asking the Exchequer to solve all society's ills.

Education I think few people would complain about, other than perhaps some purveyors of healthy meat and fried food products, who might feel that they were being slandered. Labelling may be a problem for smaller operations that perhaps cannot afford the testing - for example Ned N Charlie's chip shop, or the bloke that sells deepfried fat on a stick at the roadside.

Personally, I think the problem is lack of exercise, rather than diet

SC

[mogandave]

Cooking food changes it's chemical composition.

Yes, what we need are some specifics on what we can do to help.