Thai child Thai passport expired, living in Thailand on foreign visa

[ronnie50]

I've just registered and post this as I've been unable to find it through searching your very comprehensive forum - I hope someone can help.

My two kids are living in Thailand on foreign passports/visas, but they are also Thai (luek krueng). It's a long story why that is the case. But my question is this:

They last left Thailand in September, exiting with Thai passports, we went to Singapore (the whole family) and came back to bangkok all arriving on our foreign passports. Their Thai passports have now expired. Can we simply go to the passport office to get new Thai passports? Or are the Thai officials going to refuse becuase they don't have an arrival stamp in the expired Thai passports? What happens then? I guess we could say we lost the Thai passports, but they probably have some way to track that.

Is this a real problem, or no big deal? Thanks for all replies.

[samran]

they can probably get new passports, but they can't use them to leave Thailand.

They'll have to leave Thailand on the passports they entered on, and then return on the Thai passports. (nb. they are allowed to return on expired Thai passports).

Leads me to the obvious question, why enter them on foreign passports when they had the Thai PP?

[ronnie50]

Hi Samran

Thanks for your reply. Maybe I can send you a PM on the background - as I said it's a long story (and one I'd rather not share, though there's nothing weird or sinister - our whole family traveled). Anyway, can we just submit the old passports with an "out" stamp but no "return" stamp and get new Thai passports?

[ubonjoe]

Yes you can apply for their new passports without a problem.

[Estrada]

They must exit Thailand and re-enter on their Thai Passports. My eldest daughter was born in the UK and although we got her a Thai passport, immigration insisted that she must leave the Country on the British passport and re-enter on the Thai passport. Being Thai doesn't help, as Logic does not come into it, and they will also hit them with an overstay on their foreign passports. They will also get hit with a fine if they do not report where they are living to immigration every 90 days. I took my daughter to Singapore on Air Asia, exiting on the British passport and re-entering on her Thai passport.

[Mario2008]

But children under 15 are not fined for overstay.

As they nationals they can get an extension of stay in their foreign passport from immigration, till they need to leave.

[samran]

They must exit Thailand and re-enter on their Thai Passports. My eldest daughter was born in the UK and although we got her a Thai passport, immigration insisted that she must leave the Country on the British passport and re-enter on the Thai passport. Being Thai doesn't help, as Logic does not come into it, and they will also hit them with an overstay on their foreign passports. They will also get hit with a fine if they do not report where they are living to immigration every 90 days. I took my daughter to Singapore on Air Asia, exiting on the British passport and re-entering on her Thai passport.

If she originally entered Thailand on the British passport, of course she would have to leave on it. If she entered as a foreigner, she's subject to immigration rules here. Makes perfect sense, sounds like you are just having a whinge.

[LukKrueng]

basically holders of Thai passport MUST enter and leave Thailand on their Thai passport. Thais have only been allowed to hold more than 1 passport in the past 20 or so years, before that time a child born to a foreigner could not hold a Thai passport. Around that time the rules relaxed a bit and the only MUST was to leave / enter on Thai passport.

I heard that now foreigners who apply for a Thai citizenship must declare they will cancel their original nationality once getting the Thai ID, so seems rules are getting stricter.

I presume your wife is Thai, and I can't think of any reason why would she (and the kids) enter Thailand on a non Thai passport.

[wolfmanjack]

I took my kids in and out of thailand on USA passports and have not had any problems. I did not bother to get them visas and when I took them out again a year later no one said a word about it.

Then they stayed in Thailand for 4 years and when we left again no word was said by immigration about overstay. They were born in thailand to a thai mother and have never had a thai passport.

I find it hard to believe that immigration would try and charge a thai citizen overstay no matter what passport they entered or left on.

[Mario2008]

Children under 15 are not charged overstay, but the overstay is recorded in their passport.

Immigration charges overstay from Thai citizens who enter on a foreign passport as matter of policy. If a judge will agree is something else, but hard to disagree if you want to catch the plane.

[mark66]

From the variety of replies you should get that the rules are fluid and subject to interpretation on the day- it's part of Thailand is it not? Nothing is certain. The main international airport is worst or all, in my past experience, so when in doubt I always went via the land border to Malaysia, some of the back road border crossings are really relaxed on these things.

I agree that it is easy to get another Thai passport. They may or may not make an issue over the lack of an entry visa, just depends who is on that day. If you're worried I would go with your idea that you lost the passports and my experience is that they have no way of tracking these. Of course things will be a lot easier if you do not show your face as a foreigner and send your wife alone, preferably with someone with a bit of Thai status.

The rumour on the order of things that abounded when I lived in Thailand six years ago was that the law said you could have dual citizenship up until your 15th birthday and after that it is illegal to have two. However, this was only a foreigner's interpretation of what rules were being used. If true it would mean the rule would be almost impossible to monitor as their is no exchange of information between countries and Thailand.

Leaving your home country on one passport and arriving on another (as seems to have been suggested) sounds like a disaster. The airport checking systems keep your personal details and your passport number against flight arrivals. These are checked at the border, so if you have switched passports in flight, and I have tried this one, they will not let you through. The rule that works for my wife and child (also dual nationality) is to leave the UK on Thai passports, for both of them, and leave Thailand on the same. However, arriving at the UK my wife presents both passports, which to the British authorities is no problem.

One time I did take my child out of Thailand on a British passport, she had been in Thailand for two years since she was born. I did not have her Thai passport. The border staff spent ages searching for an old, rarely used, wooden stamp and then let her through. But that was at the land border.

I have also known someone who got a new Thai passport and claimed the old one was lost, when it wasn't. Nothing happened on that occasion.

So all in all I think your original idea of getting new Thai passports is OK. Flashing dual nationality papers around just causes people's ears to prick up. As you know everyone is looking to supplement their low incomes.

[Sceptict11]

Lot of unhelpful nonsense contained in the above post.

[ronnie50]

Thanks to all of you for your advice.

I guess I'll just go to Changwattana, hand over the expired Thai passports, and see what happens. I am however still a bit worried that they'll question why there is an outbound Thai stamp and arrival Singapore stamp, yet no return. Maybe they don't check them. But if they do? I guess theose who say just go and apply are suggesting it dosen't matter if they are in Thailand on their dual-national passport, aslong as they leave on the same and return on the new Thai passports? If that's all ok, then case closed.

The reason we entered with their foreign nationality is because it was a pre-condition of my employer regarding education and other benefits for the family - e.g. I had to produce passport copies with arrival stamps indicating the kids were of a different nationality for certain benefits. Hope that better explains and thanks again.

[IMA_FARANG]

If they entered on their foreign passports, they must leave on their foreign passports.

It may some silly but if the entered as a foreigner, they must leave as a foreigner.

Now when they have new Thai passports, or renew their Thai passports, they can then leave on the foreign passport they entered on and then return on that Thai passport.

And even though their Thai passport is expired, it cab be renewed here in Thailand.

So, first get them new Thai passports, or renew heir Thai passports,then have them leave and reenter on their Thai passports.

They do not need a visa on their Thai passport, and they can't overstay on their Thai passport.

Bit they can overstay (depending on their age) on a foreign passport and be fined for that overstay.

The general rule for dual nationalities is to enter Thailand on a Thai passport, and if you return to your home country use that country's passport,

But be aware a Male Thai who claims That nationality when he is of age has to deal with the military lottery and possibly having to do his duty in the Thai military.

But that's another issue, and anyhow only applies to Males.

P.S. I believe any requirement to give up a foreign passport or nationality at age 15 has now been abolished.

However I'm not familiar with that part of it.

Edited December 31, 2013 by IMA_FARANG

[ronnie50]

^

IMA-FARANG

So you're saying we forget about the foreign passports and the visas, and we leave Thailand on the newly minted Thai Passports in hand (virgin - no stamps) then return on same? I guess the foreign passports and visas kind of just hang in the air? You don;t think we can leave on the foreign passports (to complete the process) then arrive on the Thai passports? I can see why you say this because:

1. The Thai passports will be issued in Bangkok, but would have no Thailand exit stamp. So how did they get the passports? And upon return with no stamps at all, how did they travel in first place?

Is that what you mean?

[samran]

^

IMA-FARANG

So you're saying we forget about the foreign passports and the visas, and we leave Thailand on the newly minted Thai Passports in hand (virgin - no stamps) then return on same? I guess the foreign passports and visas kind of just hang in the air? You don;t think we can leave on the foreign passports (to complete the process) then arrive on the Thai passports? I can see why you say this because:

1. The Thai passports will be issued in Bangkok, but would have no Thailand exit stamp. So how did they get the passports? And upon return with no stamps at all, how did they travel in first place?

Is that what you mean?

You are worrying too much about the stamps.

Exit in the Brit passports, come back in on the thai ones. If they kids are over 7 years of age they can use the automatic gates anyway ( no stamps).

If you decide to use an immigration officer, then just hand over both new and old thai passports (the one your kids originally used to exit Thailand). They,ll make up their minds as to which passport they get stamped in on.

On a couple of occasions I've had my thai passport expire while overseas. I always presented both old and new passports at the same time. One one occasion they stamped me in on my old thai passport, on another occasion they stamped me in on the new one.

[singa-traz]

A few years ago, I was in a similar situation:

• Kid exited Thailand on the Foreign Passport
• Kid re-entered Thailand with a "Fresh/Virgin" Thai Passport issued from Bangkok

My Wife and I used different immigration booth. Her with the kids and the Thai Passports and me with the rest of the passports.

She was questioned for about 10-15 min, as they were looking for the exit stamp on the Thai Passport and checked the records on the computer.

After some explanation, they strongly reminded her not to do it again.

I'm not sure if when you exit Thailand, Immigration could process the two passports together:

• Foreign Passport
• New Thai Passport

That way you would not have any problem re-entering with the Thai Passport.

They probably don't like this kind of exception, but if you ask nicely and as it is for kids ... a lot of things become possible here.

Just make sure the kids are on their best behavior in front of the officer :-)

[samran]

^

IMA-FARANG

So you're saying we forget about the foreign passports and the visas, and we leave Thailand on the newly minted Thai Passports in hand (virgin - no stamps) then return on same? I guess the foreign passports and visas kind of just hang in the air? You don;t think we can leave on the foreign passports (to complete the process) then arrive on the Thai passports? I can see why you say this because:

1. The Thai passports will be issued in Bangkok, but would have no Thailand exit stamp. So how did they get the passports? And upon return with no stamps at all, how did they travel in first place?

Is that what you mean?

You are worrying too much about the stamps.

Exit in the Brit passports, come back in on the thai ones. If they kids are over 7 years of age they can use the automatic gates anyway ( no stamps).

If you decide to use an immigration officer, then just hand over both new and old thai passports (the one your kids originally used to exit Thailand). They,ll make up their minds as to which passport they get stamped in on.

On a couple of occasions I've had my thai passport expire while overseas. I always presented both old and new passports at the same time. One one occasion they stamped me in on my old thai passport, on another occasion they stamped me in on the new one.

Shouldn't apply here. The exit stamps are in the old thai passport. As I've already said, if an immigration officer is hunting around for an exit stamp on re entry, then just show the expired thai passport.

[dighambara]

they can probably get new passports, but they can't use them to leave Thailand.

They'll have to leave Thailand on the passports they entered on, and then return on the Thai passports. (nb. they are allowed to return on expired Thai passports).

Leads me to the obvious question, why enter them on foreign passports when they had the Thai PP?

Although, children are not prosecuted for visa problems the last question is especially valid.

IMHO - there is no problem here - just go get new passports.

[NanLaew]

Apply for the new Thai passports. The old passports will be canceled BUT will be returned with the new ones.

The new Thai passports CANNOT be used to exit the country as the kids current entry is on their foreign passports. They would need to depart on these foreign passports.

The new Thai passports can only be used for their NEXT entry to Thailand whereupon the OLD Thai passports should also be presented to Immigration on arrival..

[Maestro]

...

I'm not sure if when you exit Thailand, Immigration could process the two passports together:

• Foreign Passport
• New Thai Passport

That way you would not have any problem re-entering with the Thai Passport.

They probably don't like this kind of exception, but if you ask nicely and as it is for kids ... a lot of things become possible here.

Just make sure the kids are on their best behavior in front of the officer :-)

No, don't do that. As has been said, show only the foreign passport to Thai immigration on the way out of Thailand.

[singa-traz]

...

I'm not sure if when you exit Thailand, Immigration could process the two passports together:

• Foreign Passport
• New Thai Passport

That way you would not have any problem re-entering with the Thai Passport.

They probably don't like this kind of exception, but if you ask nicely and as it is for kids ... a lot of things become possible here.

Just make sure the kids are on their best behavior in front of the officer :-)

No, don't do that. As has been said, show only the foreign passport to Thai immigration on the way out of Thailand.

Then, based on my own experience, he can expect some questionning when he comes back with the New Thai passport issued in Bangkok.

[Maestro]

I don't know what your experience was, but the OP's children will give the Thai immigration officer the new Thai passport. If the officer questions why there is no Thai departure stamp in it, they then give also the old Thai passprort with the departure stamp showing the date when they last left Thailand with that passport.

In fact, even without the old Thai passport with the departure stamp, the children would have the right to enter Thailand with the new passport. The holder of a Thai passport can never be refused entry. My adult son had did this some years ago with a new passport issued to him in London. The immigration officer asked my son for the other passport, he said that he didn't bring it along, and the officer stamped him in without further ado.

[samran]

...

I'm not sure if when you exit Thailand, Immigration could process the two passports together:

• Foreign Passport
• New Thai Passport

That way you would not have any problem re-entering with the Thai Passport.

They probably don't like this kind of exception, but if you ask nicely and as it is for kids ... a lot of things become possible here.

Just make sure the kids are on their best behavior in front of the officer :-)

No, don't do that. As has been said, show only the foreign passport to Thai immigration on the way out of Thailand.

Then, based on my own experience, he can expect some questionning when he comes back with the New Thai passport issued in Bangkok.

All Thai passports, even the ones issued by the embassies, are issued in Bangkok. Not to say there aren't occasionally questions, but the old Thai passport with the old exit stamps should be enough.

[Time Traveller]

What about when the child is born overseas, but the embassy won't give passport to the new baby due to missing documents (house registration). Do they enter into Thailand on foreign passport and pick up Thai passport in Thailand? Is there any problems with new babies flying one way to Thailand without a Thai passport or visa?

[ubonjoe]

What about when the child is born overseas, but the embassy won't give passport to the new baby due to missing documents (house registration). Do they enter into Thailand on foreign passport and pick up Thai passport in Thailand? Is there any problems with new babies flying one way to Thailand without a Thai passport or visa?

It would not be a problem if the parents have a visa or a Thai passport.

[Mario2008]

What about when the child is born overseas, but the embassy won't give passport to the new baby due to missing documents (house registration). Do they enter into Thailand on foreign passport and pick up Thai passport in Thailand? Is there any problems with new babies flying one way to Thailand without a Thai passport or visa?

Normally the house registration is not a problem (although officially required).

But if no passport can be obtained abroad, than the person can enter on a foreign passport, get on a household registration in Thailand and apply for a Thai passport in Thailand. (For applying in Thailand the household registration is required).

For children under 15 there is no overstay fee, but a person with Thai nationality can simply get extensions of stay on proof of having Thai nationality. The person than leaves Thailand on the foreign passport when the times comes and re-enters on the Thai passport.

[ubonjoe]

The house registration is not required if applying abroad. See: http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/1415/21482-e-Passport-Application-for-Thai-Nationals-Living-A.html

[Time Traveller]

The house registration is not required if applying abroad. See: http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/1415/21482-e-Passport-Application-for-Thai-Nationals-Living-A.html

Thank you. That's good news, it's still listed as required on the Thai consulate in LA.

[ronnie50]

As OP, let me update.. We now have the new Thai passports - yes no problem. And will follow the recommendations about ensuring we leave with the foreign passports and re-enter with new (and old) Thai passports in hand. Thanks again I will update again at that time. Hope this is useful for others too