Why do Monks do that?...

[khrab]

My observation. Some smoke, many have cell phones, computers etc buddism here in thailand is very different than buddism in india. Here it seems to be all about money.

Because in Thailand it is Bathism. (Copyright not be me. From another TV poster)

All about money.

Vertures? Is greed a verture?

Medidation? What is that? Hint: It needs a brain.

Sad!

[BlackArtemis]

You can always go to Monk Chat at the larger temples and ask them.

[nidieunimaitre]

Recently, there was a buddha day (as it is called here).

My wife is not into religion and monks, but she went to the wat (social pressure).

I proud myself to leading her astray, but the seed was planted by her father, who told her "never believe what you can not see".

Not so evident for a poor farmer... Respect to that man!

She brought food with her to give to the monks, I believe that is what todays 'alms' are.

It was PORK. Dead pork. Pigs are animals. Pigs live.

When I asked my wife "can monks eat dead animals?", she said "sure, why not?".

[ChatterRat]

Even if you are not religious, I think respect for other people's beliefs is important. Buddhism is an integral part of Thai culture and has an important role day to day. While I may have some observations about monks I keep them largely to myself, and its not very useful to trivialise what they may or may not be doing.

Respect for other people is OK (to a point), but it does not have to extend to their beliefs. For example I could respect someone who is a scientologist but I could never respect scientology.

[Kangawallafox]

Chinese monks do not practice Kung <deleted>.

Only the monks in the shaolin temple,even their its optional for them.

And that's chan Buddhism,quite different.

[Kangawallafox]

They also do not worship buddha

[laobali]

Recently, there was a buddha day (as it is called here).

My wife is not into religion and monks, but she went to the wat (social pressure).

I proud myself to leading her astray, but the seed was planted by her father, who told her "never believe what you can not see".

Not so evident for a poor farmer... Respect to that man!

She brought food with her to give to the monks, I believe that is what todays 'alms' are.

It was PORK. Dead pork. Pigs are animals. Pigs live.

When I asked my wife "can monks eat dead animals?", she said "sure, why not?".

You do need to do a little research. Buddhist monks are not supposed to kill an animal (or see it killed) then eat the meat from it. That's all. As long as someone else does the 'deed' it's okay. But of course rules are often broken.

[khaowong1]

I see that only a few people on here have any idea about Buddhism.. I'm not going to waste my time explaining everything. Like both Jesus and the Buddha said, some people will hear and understand, some won't. Some people will actually be interested enough to try and learn, some people won't give a shit. Don't believe everything you read or hear. There are a lot of really good monks out there who actually follow the 227 rules we live by. There are some who don't. Try it, then give your opinion.. If you have never driven or ridden in a Mercedes, how can you give a factual opinion of it? Have a very great 2014, all of you..

[tingtongtingtong]

check out Phra Farang: An English Monk in Thailand book

I find Alan Watts to be quite eloquent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h1miVEqer0

Edited January 1, 2014 by tingtongtingtong

[ChatterRat]

I wouldn't call it a fine line at all. More like worlds of difference.

However it is not uncommon among lay people, especially those with less education and little awareness of actual Buddhist teachings, to take going to the Wat and bowing to Buddha images as a superstitious ritual intended to bring good luck or something like that. Actually Buddhist teaching makes clear that there is no supernatural power that can help you and that it is only by your own efforts and how you live your life that better outcomes become possible.

But a monk would certainly know all this. As do more educated Thais and anyone who has actually studied Buddhist teachings.

If there is no supernatural power to help the people and it only by ones personal efforts and good lifestyle that produces good outcomes, why does virtually the whole Thai population insist on merit making at the wat, and why are there 1 million monks trying to suggest differently to the people.

"Making merit" is not a superstitious ritual. It is based on the laws of karma, i.e. do good and get (sooner or later) good results and vice versa.

Good lifestyle incorporates (indeed, is built on) doing good deeds.

I disagree, do good does not mean in anyway it will come back to you, I saw some tests done once on this where ( excuse my vagueness) they did a game that by if you shared all the pieces between two people you would get more overall by sharing, but if you were selfish and kept yours you would get less, some people shared many didnt ,selfish wins

You can do bad things all your life and get away with it, it will not come back to haunt you necessarily. Ask Jimmy Savile for one.

What you are saying about selfish wins is incorrect. It does though depend on the game and the length of the game, or more importantly how long the players think the game will last. Read up about game theory. The example you are quoting seems to refer to a game where in fact co-operation has been proven to be the best option, using a strategy known as Tit-For-Tat, sometimes shortened to TFT in game theory.

If I am correct the game you refer to involves 2 people and a sum of money to be shared.

If both agree to share then they get half the money each.

If one shares but the other does not, the betrayer gets all the money, the sharer none.

If both betray then neither gets the money.

If the game is played once (see the Prisoners dilemma) then betrayal may be a better option, but if the game is continuous (as in life?) then a Tit for Tat strategy has been proven to be the most effective. With TFT the strategy is as follows:

1. Start with the offer to share.

2. Repeat whatever the other person did previously.

So if the person B betrays they are punished with a betrayal and no one wins.

But if person B catches on that person A offered to share originally and person B offers to share then the next response will be a share from A. Once (if) person B realises that if they share with person A they will get 50%, but nothing if they continually betray then a pattern of sharing will result. This has been proven to be the best strategy, and although Tit-For-Tat does not sound like a friendly gesture, it is at is core a call for co-operation, i.e. sharing.

Nothing to do with monks though, although I think Buddha, as a great thinker, might of approved of TFT

[thefamilyjules]

I see that only a few people on here have any idea about Buddhism.. I'm not going to waste my time explaining everything. Like both Jesus and the Buddha said, some people will hear and understand, some won't. Some people will actually be interested enough to try and learn, some people won't give a shit. Don't believe everything you read or hear. There are a lot of really good monks out there who actually follow the 227 rules we live by. There are some who don't. Try it, then give your opinion.. If you have never driven or ridden in a Mercedes, how can you give a factual opinion of it? Have a very great 2014, all of you..

As if you know everything there is to know about anything.

Neither Jesus of Nazareth nor Siddhartha Gautama said, "some people won't give a shit."

"There are a lot of really good monks out there who actually follow the 227 rules we live by." To whom does 'we' refer?

Since when is an opinion factual? An opinion is necessarily the opposite of a fact.

Having a great 2014 so far myself.

[BwindiBoy]

You can be a monk three times in your lifetime and you can still be a monk even if you are married (but have to stick to the no contact with a woman rule). If you are married and become a monk, if you stay a monk for three years or more, the wife can seek divorce after three years (but this may be that she can actually consider herself divorced, not 100% sure).

[krisb]

Google it. You can at least learn much about Buddhism. Wikipedia covers it quite well, however Thai Buddhist monasteries and the lives and duties of monks often reach far beyond the teachings of the master.

As you will find out, with enough time spent here.

Yout not up to speed, read the op a little better.

[thehelmsman]

Get a kick out seeing a Monk drink. One comes to our house and kicks it out back with neighbors drinking Blend every once in awhile. From what I've seen and been told - Women is the only strict no-no.

[krisb]

I would think your deliciously crazy, but I would out of respect, respect your choice to think you are whatever you want to be, from one human to another.

I get your drift,surely you get mine, let's get back to topic..

Same circular reasoning. You describe the action, not the reason. Rather than explain the reason you just insert an additional 'respect'.... "out of respect".

Yeah sorry your not really making sense anymore.

[krisb]

No smoking for instance

And then after your spiel, you come back with 'no smoking for instance'

Are you serious?

[krisb]

I see that only a few people on here have any idea about Buddhism.. I'm not going to waste my time explaining everything. Like both Jesus and the Buddha said, some people will hear and understand, some won't. Some people will actually be interested enough to try and learn, some people won't give a shit. Don't believe everything you read or hear. There are a lot of really good monks out there who actually follow the 227 rules we live by. There are some who don't. Try it, then give your opinion.. If you have never driven or ridden in a Mercedes, how can you give a factual opinion of it? Have a very great 2014, all of you..

Oh. My. God.

[notmyself]

Yeah sorry your not really making sense anymore.586686"]

My sincerest apologies, English is only my first language.

One cannot use the respect to explain respect...

Even if you are not religious, I think respect for other people's beliefs is important.

Why?

Respect.

Circular reasoning (Latin: circulus in probando, "circle in proving"; also known as paradoxical thinking[1] or circular logic), is a logical fallacy in which the reasoner begins with what they are trying to end up with.[2] The components of a circular argument are often logically valid because if the premises are true, the conclusion must be true. However, the argument is useless because the conclusion is one of the premises. Circular logic cannot prove a conclusion because, if the conclusion is doubted, the premise which leads to it will also be doubted.[3]

Here

There is another option I guess which would be that respect is a given, self evident or an axiom if you like. Well, respect is earned which is why we have such things as 'I grew to respect him' or 'I really respect her for the way she handled herself'

More in a second for what it is worth....

Edited January 1, 2014 by notmyself

[notmyself]

... Quite why people would respect group of sexist bald chaps who sit around contemplating their navel is beyond me.

[krisb]

... Quite why people would respect group of sexist bald chaps who sit around contemplating their navel is beyond me.

I suggest you take it to the top. Aretha Franklin.

[prakhonchai nick]

I see that only a few people on here have any idea about Buddhism.. I'm not going to waste my time explaining everything. Like both Jesus and the Buddha said, some people will hear and understand, some won't. Some people will actually be interested enough to try and learn, some people won't give a shit. Don't believe everything you read or hear. There are a lot of really good monks out there who actually follow the 227 rules we live by. There are some who don't. Try it, then give your opinion.. If you have never driven or ridden in a Mercedes, how can you give a factual opinion of it? Have a very great 2014, all of you..

As if you know everything there is to know about anything.

Neither Jesus of Nazareth nor Siddhartha Gautama said, "some people won't give a shit."

"There are a lot of really good monks out there who actually follow the 227 rules we live by." To whom does 'we' refer?

Since when is an opinion factual? An opinion is necessarily the opposite of a fact.

Having a great 2014 so far myself.

Whilst you are likely correct, how can you be so sure and make such a categoric statement. . We all say things at times we wish we hadn't or are pleased nobody heard.

It is stated above that Buddhism is NOT a religion, but the teachings of Buddha are taught. Did Buddha (and for that matter Jesus) go around saying do this and that and don't do something else? Probably not. Most of the "teachings" have been introduced over time. Did, for example, Jesus say no contraception or don't eat meat on Fridays? I've no idea about Buddha's teachings but I am willing to bet he did not say half of what is attributed to him!

[Hillman321]

Thai Monks are Therevada. Chinese monks are Mahayana. The TWO Major divisions. Vijarana is Tibetan (Dalai Lama). Therevada is the last surviving "school" from the time of Buddha. Mahayana started in Vietnam and moved to China, Tibet, Korea and Japan. Each time it changed to adapt to the local communities

Senior monks (20+) have 227 precepts to follow. Nuns have 332. Lay persons had 5. On special days (Wan Phra or monks days) lay people choose to follow 8. Samonen (or nen) are monks under senior age and only follow 10. One of the 8 is NOT to eat past local noon until the sun rises again.

Buddhists do NOT worship Buddha. They worship the IDEALS not the IDOLS. The trinity (Triple Gem) of Buddhism is the Buddha, the Dhamma (teachings) and the Sangha ( the community - monks and lay people).

As with everything, monks are people. Some take things more seriously than others. Some senior monks have violated the vows of celibacy, poverty and anything else you can think of.

[Hillman321]

\

Whilst you are likely correct, how can you be so sure and make such a categoric statement. . We all say things at times we wish we hadn't or are pleased nobody heard.

It is stated above that Buddhism is NOT a religion, but the teachings of Buddha are taught. Did Buddha (and for that matter Jesus) go around saying do this and that and don't do something else? Probably not. Most of the "teachings" have been introduced over time. Did, for example, Jesus say no contraception or don't eat meat on Fridays? I've no idea about Buddha's teachings but I am willing to bet he did not say half of what is attributed to him!

********

When some of the senior monks who had studied with Buddha were getting old, they realized no one had written down anything he had said. They started to write what they remembered on banana leaves. They always preface things by saying this was their best memory. The more that agreed with the memories, the more likely he said it. This is why the "Buddhist Bibles" are now on the narrow slat-like cardboard (if you have ever even seen one).

[LawrenceN]

I have been a monk twice: once for seven days in 1998 in Chiang Mai, and once for one day in honor of my mother-in-law for her funeral. I can respond to some of your questions. My seven-day stint was during a vacation in Thailand while I was still employed in the US. I had wanted to do it for a long time, but that's all the time I had. My mother-in-law was my sponsor, that is, held my robes and presented them to me during the ordination ceremony. Donning the robes for her funeral was my way of returning the favor.

Q: "They live in their respective temples/wats, usually close to their family home, I think?"

Not usually true for the long-term monks. I have met many who are far from their original homes, even from Laos, Cam, and Burma. However, I remember one fellow who was ordained with me whose mother brought his favorite foods every day. He left the monkhood one day before me. I think he was a picky eater, spoiled by his mom his whole life, so didn't share in the pooled food we collected during our walks every morning. Most of my ordination group of 27 were Chiang Mai folks, or Northerners anyway.

Q: "They only eat 2 times a day, not sure why?"

I think this began very early, an instruction from the Lord Buddha himself. Buddhists believe monks contribute to the community, but the Lord Buddha didn't want monks to be seen as pests constantly bothering the people for food. Monks collect food once in the morning. Presumably, it's still edible before noon, but gets dodgy in the heat of the afternoon, whether in tropical Southeast Asia or the Plains of the Ganges. Personally, I love to eat, but found this austerity to be something I could prove to myself. In the evenings when my stomach was growling, I toughed it out by meditating and drinking chocolate milk. Liquids are OK after noon.

Q: "They can't touch females

No alcohol"

Yeah, discipline, austerity, and setting themselves apart from worldly desires. It's a part of conquering the ego.

Q: "They worship Buddha"

Well, OK, if that's the word you prefer. I don't use the word "worship" because the Buddha is not a god. I venerate him as a teacher. He had tremendous discipline and saw through the mind games that people play. But you're right that it looks like worship, and I think that for many people it is. My lovely wife prays to him for protection and favors, ignoring Buddhism's teaching that the Buddha himself has transcended worldly concerns.

Q: "They don't practice Kung-<deleted> in Thailand but the Chinese monks do?"

I don't have a fix on how much of this is Hollywood, and I'm not very familiar with Chinese Buddhism. But bear in mind that much of what we see on our entertainment screens is not authentic. There are lots of Chinese philosophies (Taoism, Confucianism, etc.) that can be made (by screenwriters and directors) to look like Buddhism because the stereotype makes it easier to tell the story to Westerners. That said, some martial arts are taught in Thai temples. Here I'm thinking of stick-fighting.

Q: "Something about covering and uncovering a shoulder around Buddha statues?"

There are rules about this, for monks, not for lay people, not sure if you meant that. Monks can reveal a shoulder in the temple grounds for comfort, but cover up when they go out for modesty, kind of like when you think about how to dress for any given activity or event you attend in public. I made this mistake myself during my week in the monkhood. I went out to buy water lilies for a pool in the temple grounds, rode all over town in a tuk-tuk with my shoulder bared and only realized it when I got back. Honest mistake.

Hope this helps.

[bangon04]

Thai Monks are Therevada. Chinese monks are Mahayana. The TWO Major divisions. Vijarana is Tibetan (Dalai Lama). Therevada is the last surviving "school" from the time of Buddha. Mahayana started in Vietnam and moved to China, Tibet, Korea and Japan. Each time it changed to adapt to the local communities

Senior monks (20+) have 227 precepts to follow. Nuns have 332. Lay persons had 5. On special days (Wan Phra or monks days) lay people choose to follow 8. Samonen (or nen) are monks under senior age and only follow 10. One of the 8 is NOT to eat past local noon until the sun rises again.

Buddhists do NOT worship Buddha. They worship the IDEALS not the IDOLS. The trinity (Triple Gem) of Buddhism is the Buddha, the Dhamma (teachings) and the Sangha ( the community - monks and lay people).

As with everything, monks are people. Some take things more seriously than others. Some senior monks have violated the vows of celibacy, poverty and anything else you can think of.

And it seems that many Abbots condone or indeed actively encourage a substantial array of superstitious sideshows in the temple grounds, which presumably have nothing to do with the teachings of Buddha, but make a lot of money from the gullible for somebody.

[Andre0720]

I see the OP knows little about the reasons or the customs. Do a little mor research before you post your opinions.

Not much of an opinion in his post.

Just what he knows so far.

Soliciting information from the learned TV members not a good approach to learn more?

So if someone wants visa information, he has to do his own research does he?

[nidieunimaitre]

Recently, there was a buddha day (as it is called here).

My wife is not into religion and monks, but she went to the wat (social pressure).

I proud myself to leading her astray, but the seed was planted by her father, who told her "never believe what you can not see".

Not so evident for a poor farmer... Respect to that man!

She brought food with her to give to the monks, I believe that is what todays 'alms' are.

It was PORK. Dead pork. Pigs are animals. Pigs live.

When I asked my wife "can monks eat dead animals?", she said "sure, why not?".

You do need to do a little research. Buddhist monks are not supposed to kill an animal (or see it killed) then eat the meat from it. That's all. As long as someone else does the 'deed' it's okay. But of course rules are often broken.

Ah, the sheer hypocracy of it!

Christians do obviously not own the monopoly.

And as for your suggestion to do some research first: I was in Nepal. In the tibetan villages there, buddhists raise animals to be slaugthered by the only hindu that lives in their village.

First people create gods.

Then the believers create holy rules that they attribute to their gods.

Next the believers outsmarten their gods.

Ah, the sheer hypocracy of it!

[CMHomeboy78]

Theravada Buddhism isn't "superstitious".

You're confusing it with animism, which Buddhism supposedly replaced, but still has an influence here among many people.

Show me any religion without superstition and dogma

Do you find Theravada Buddhism superstitious?

Most people who study it or practice its tenets don't.

Superstition - like beauty - is often in the eyes of the beholder.

[prakhonchai nick]

Ah, the sheer hypocracy of it!

Christians do obviously not own the monopoly.

And as for your suggestion to do some research first: I was in Nepal. In the tibetan villages there, buddhists raise animals to be slaugthered by the only hindu that lives in their village.

First people create gods.

Then the believers create holy rules that they attribute to their gods.

Next the believers outsmarten their gods.

Ah, the sheer hypocracy of it!

Hypocracy indeed.

It doesn't end there

The believers then install "agents" to preach their created holy rules and to collect vast sums of money for doing so, and everyone who believes is naive and contented.

Edited January 2, 2014 by prakhonchai nick

[Maggusoil]

Google it. You can at least learn much about Buddhism. Wikipedia covers it quite well, however Thai Buddhist monasteries and the lives and duties of monks often reach far beyond the teachings of the master.

As you will find out, with enough time spent here.

Yout not up to speed, read the op a little better.

Alright, point taken. Then take the shortest distance between two points and ask one of them and not one of us.