Bangkok 'shutdown': Protest leader Suthep details January 13 strategy

[hellodolly]

If you can't find the words to express yourself, perhaps you should refrain from writing until you are able to do so. I am not dumb, sir, I am a knowledgeable pragmatist (and when my IQ was last tested in the 1960's, it was scored at 154). I have worked in an executive capacity in the private sector on numerous government projects for half a dozen ministries, so I have first-hand knowledge of how pervasive corruption is within the existing politico-bureaucratic system, and I spent 8 years doing project management field-work in 72 provinces. I am fluent in spoken and written Thai and Lao (Issan dialect and Lao PDR), so I can listen to and read everything that the PDRC, the UDD, and the government says without having to rely on low-quality translations of excerpts or third-hand "information." And finally, I work in a Thai company, live in a Thai neighborhood (lower middle-class), and virtually all my associates, friends and acquaintances are Thai, so I am aware of the range of opinion, knowledge, and ignorance across a broad range of socioeconomic, educational, religious, and regional backgrounds.

Based on observing the performance of elected governments over the past 25 years, yes, I would welcome Thailand being run in the short-term by an unelected group that is intent on reform.

Totalitarian movements have always been able to command support from some intelligent people. What I find interesting is the demographic profile of those who lined up behind Fascism in the 1930s and the parallels with the pattern of support for Khun Suthep today. Those who think that a 'people's council' or another coup will solve Thailand's problems, haven't learned very much from history..

What has that got to do with it. They have learned a lot from recent Thai huistory. That is what they are trying to deal with today.

You might want to try living in the today you will notice the demographic profile is of common every day working people saying we have had enough. The rest are followers. They came along after the fact.

[Mister Fixit]

A Kleptocracy, totally lost there, what is it?

Here you are - Google is your friend - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleptocracy

Edited January 3, 2014 by Mister Fixit

[soi41]

Am I the only one, who finds the madmans nonsense rhetoric mantras a little boring??

No, there's a couple of dozen of you. The rest of us are looking forward to the day when YL sees sense and steps down so that the reform process can begin and then free and fair elections can take place...without Khun T being on the agenda...!!

We agree on the goal, but disagree on the methods to get there.

I still believe a majority should rule over minority. If a majority of the Thai people wants the Shins to run the country, it is their bad choice. Then they have got the government, they deserve.

And don't give me the vote-buying crap, both sides are equally bad.

Allow me a story from real life:

I know a young Thai lady, who my wife studied law with, she is 35 beautiful and very intelligent.

A year ago she was elected head of a small district (7000 people) outside Hua Hin.

I known her for a long time, and well enough to discuss Thai politics. When the protests in Bangkok started, we were talking about what could solve the crisis, and I said something along the lines of:

"Thailand needs new and clean politicians, someone like you"

She didn't reply. And I realized, so my next question was "how much". She had paid 1 million baht to get elected in a petty district somewhere in Thailand. Why, because her family owns the local cement/construction-company.

This lady, who I respect, is a hardcore supporter of Sutheps fight against corruption!!

To erade corruption here is almost "mission impossible", because it is such an integrated part of Thai society on all levels.!

[ginjag]

Am I the only one, who finds the madmans nonsense rhetoric mantras a little boring??

No, there's a couple of dozen of you. The rest of us are looking forward to the day when YL sees sense and steps down so that the reform process can begin and then free and fair elections can take place...without Khun T being on the agenda...!!

We agree on the goal, but disagree on the methods to get there.

I still believe a majority should rule over minority. If a majority of the Thai people wants the Shins to run the country, it is their bad choice. Then they have got the government, they deserve.

And don't give me the vote-buying crap, both sides are equally bad.

Allow me a story from real life:

I know a young Thai lady, who my wife studied law with, she is 35 beautiful and very intelligent.

A year ago she was elected head of a small district (7000 people) outside Hua Hin.

I known her for a long time, and well enough to discuss Thai politics. When the protests in Bangkok started, we were talking about what could solve the crisis, and I said something along the lines of:

"Thailand needs new and clean politicians, someone like you"

She didn't reply. And I realized, so my next question was "how much". She had paid 1 million baht to get elected in a petty district somewhere in Thailand. Why, because her family owns the local cement/construction-company.

This lady, who I respect, is a hardcore supporter of Sutheps fight against corruption!!

To erade corruption here is almost "mission impossible", because it is such an integrated part of Thai society on all levels.!

Pretty good and true to life --paying for employment, Unless all go along as was, let the FAMILY control for another 2 years, Thailand - finished.

Most people know this but I'm afraid education among the majority is a problem-ie common sense -lack of.

In respect of the wrong way to correct the corruption, and rid of control freaks, not much alternative----I do not favour anyone --only slag off wrong.

[aaacorp]

I m still amazed by people praying Suthep to get rid of corruption when you know his history...

It s like getting rid of poo smell with stinky bomb

[flyingdoc]

The value of the Baht against major currencies , gives a good indication of what the outside world thinks about the present troubles!

[Ulic]

Same BS different day. "We are good, they are bad, everyone who does not support us is bad"

[chuang]

I think the army should stage a coup...then appoint a care-taker's government...then reforms..then election of course one-people-one vote...

[Teddy3943]

So Bangkok gets shutdown.

Businesses have to close.

People cant get to work or will be intimidated trying to.

Businesses will go bankrupt

People will lose there jobs

Ordinary folk will accumulate more debt

Cant pay the rent cant pay for food etc.

Loans wont get repaid

Homes get foreclosed

Cars repossessed

Crime will go up as the police will be preoccupied

The list goes on

Are the people really thinking about the consequences of this?

NO as they wont think past today.

Sad that they can be manipulated so easily

The way out for Thailand would be:

1. Army takes over power

2. Find a leader who is acceptable to the moderate part of both opposite parties and form a national cabinet.

Compassion and forgiveness are necessary in everyone's life, but especially in politics.

[Familyonthemove]

Here's my guess on how this will play out .....

Suthep's mob will cause traffic chaos by blocking intersections (with the tacit approval of the Army top brass who can stand a small hit on their business interests in return for longer term gains) and just like with the airport blockade this will motivate the senior officials to take action so the Electoral Commission will postpone the February election and the Courts to take action against Yingluck and her party for corruption and ban her party and install a Civilian Committee.

The Redshirts will then march into Bangkok and cause more chaos (supported by the Shinawatra businesses who can stand a small hit on their business interests in return for longer term gains) and this will force the Civilian Committee to call an election which the Reds will win and we can start all over again.

Have I missed anything?

Edited January 3, 2014 by Familyonthemove

[Scott]

Discussion of a poster's IQ are off-topic and have been deleted along with replies.

[chooka]

Here's my guess on how this will play out .....

Suthep's mob will cause traffic chaos by blocking intersections (with the tacit approval of the Army top brass who can stand a small hit on their business interests in return for longer term gains) and just like with the airport blockade this will motivate the senior officials to take action so the Electoral Commission will postpone the February election and the Courts to take action against Yingluck and her party for corruption and ban her party and install a Civilian Committee.

The Redshirts will then march into Bangkok and cause more chaos (supported by the Shinawatra businesses who can stand a small hit on their business interests in return for longer term gains) and this will force the Civilian Committee to call an election which the Reds will win and we can start all over again.

Have I missed anything?

Na sounds about right, the wheel will keep turning.

[NoshowJones]

So Bangkok gets shutdown.

Businesses have to close.

People cant get to work or will be intimidated trying to.

Businesses will go bankrupt

People will lose there jobs

Ordinary folk will accumulate more debt

Cant pay the rent cant pay for food etc.

Loans wont get repaid

Homes get foreclosed

Cars repossessed

Crime will go up as the police will be preoccupied

The list goes on

Are the people really thinking about the consequences of this?

NO as they wont think past today.

Sad that they can be manipulated so easily

Sorry that you are going to experience such an inconvenience

Is this sarcasm really necessary? The poster is making a very valid point. This country is supposed to be a democracy, so we are always being told these politicians. Bunch of hypocrites, the lot of them.

[haroldc]

HaroldC,

154 IQ's happen like 40% of the time on the internet. You really used it well landing yourself in a low class neighborhood in a developing country.

Mine happened at the Bronx High School of Science. And yes, I used it well up until I left my $350,000 base salary on Wall St. running the world's 8th largest private data communications network in 1989 to move to Thailand at the invitation of the Thai government to help develop the country's ITC infrastructure. And apparently I have continued to use it well, since the company of which I am currently CEO is ranked as the 29th largest in its industry group in Asia (including China, Japan, and Korea) and the Middle East. As for my neighborhood, it is a 10 minute walk to my office. Luxury is of no interest to me whatsoever - been there, done that.

Curious that you think that people are interested in your salary or your current "ranking" in life. This isn't Linked In.

Just out of interest did you come across much corruption when the Thai Government "invited" you to develop the country's ITC infrastructure - did you speak up about it then?

I doubt that people in general are interested, but perhaps LarryBird might be since his implication is that I am liar and/or have failed to fulfill my potential.

Yes, I encountered endemic corruption when I was working on most government projects, the exception being a number of projects with the National Cancer Institute and the Prasat Neurological Institute. And yes, I did speak up about it then. I believe that one significant government contractor at that time decided to cease bidding on government contracts partially as a result of my discussions with their board of directors. But, as I originally said, I am a pragmatist. As a foreigner, I have little or no ability to influence the course of events other than through private communications.

[NoshowJones]

I hope his plan works

The longer the parades go on the worse Thaksin / Yingluck / Chalerm / The Thai police and PTP and co. look

Actually I think it is Suthep and co who are looking worse. Yingluk and Co have actually been commended for their tolerance and they way they have handled these brainless idiots following Suthep.

I try to keep out of Thai politics Chooka, I would like to agree with you as you make a good point, but then I think back to 2010, the actions of the red shirts was deplorable, then again I think of the yellow shirts and the airport close down. A democracy???? What about all the inconvenience of the people affected by all this, they certainly did not have the freedom to go about their business. It seems one lot is as bad as the other.

[Scamper]

Civil disobedience is a timely traditional practice of non-violent protest. For those who don't believe in protest of any kind whatsoever, then perhaps you have the benefit of living in a part of the globe not yet discovered. But for those that do leave room for protest, civil disobedience is as peaceful as you can get. If you look at the history of protests in American history and throughout the world, many have been quite violent, though not all. The ones that are brought about by peaceful means have a special place in history, and for many, this is what will happen this time. The army has firmly taken itself out of the protest, and the police will not be able to control a street walk as massive as this without creating international consequences.

[spirit47]

Its a basic right to demonstrate, and in case of the current Government, an obligation. After all the wrong doings, I agree with Suthep and the Protestors, that this Government lost Legitimacy. Its a one way ticket, to a one party State without Opposition. I hope, that a non-politican joint venture can solve some problems in the Constitiution and corruption, because the courts fail already. So whatever happen in the next weeks, it was growing by the Taksin regime. If people want democracy, they should vote for honest people, and not for sharks. The list of failures of this Government is endless, corruption going worse. The only thing this Goverment doing excellent, is a never ending show of "hubs" and mega-money-projects, while the GDP real sinks to zero (dont forget stocked rice). Now, after the purse is nearly empty they was going to make dept for the next Generations. Thailand is going bancrupt by corrupt politicans, not by Protestors. I suggest the Taksin friends to analyse the facts and take part in the PDRC, the alternative is a civil war and split Thailand in two parts. Your friends from USA have experience to manage this, maybe its the only way to get freedom...

[cms22]

So Bangkok gets shutdown.

Businesses have to close.

People cant get to work or will be intimidated trying to.

Businesses will go bankrupt

People will lose there jobs

Ordinary folk will accumulate more debt

Cant pay the rent cant pay for food etc.

Loans wont get repaid

Homes get foreclosed

Cars repossessed

Crime will go up as the police will be preoccupied

The list goes on

Are the people really thinking about the consequences of this?

NO as they wont think past today.

Sad that they can be manipulated so easily

People are definitely thinking of the consequences and thinking past today -- that's EXACTLY why so many people think that this is necessary. Do you have children who are Thai citizens? I do, four to be exact. If you do, do you want them to grow up and live in a country run by a kleptocracy? I don't.

The last quote is classic. And you actually believe that Suthep and his ilk will not be corrupt? Funniest thing I've read all day. LMFAO!!!!

[meand]

I can respect anybody, and I mean anybody, when their arguments are logical and they are willing to sit down and speak with the opposition. This, however, is madness. From my point of view, the only "argument" I can see is "we want Thaksin out". That does not really pass as legitimate, sensible discourse. Then, demanding that things happen, without talking or compromising, all while threatening the city's well being and safety of its people? Why is this even being tolerated? I don't understand any of this. At the first sign of Suthep breaking the law, he shuld have been thrown into a jail cell, and a few of his followers who were occupying should have been thrown in for a while as well. Let's see how passionate these people are when they start getting thrown into prison cells. From what I saw on the streets, these are not passionate people, they are people wanting to have a good time and blow whistles on the street, and they have nothing better to do. It is sad to say, but I think the entire state of current affairs in Thailand is perfectly representative of this illogical and non-reasoning country.

Why does it not pass as "legitimate, sensible discourse."? Thaksin is running the government by proxy. This government should have been dissolved for the very fact that it is being run by a fugitive from justice and those MPs who are taking orders from him or visiting him to curry favor should all be banned for life.

The government is being run by its elected leader. Even taking all your "arguments" as fact, you still don't make sense. That is what I don't get at all. She has agreed to a revote. I don't even think it is legal for her to just vacate her office (at the behest of a mob, or not). Can you imagine if it was? We could have PM's running the country one day, and retired and off living in another country the next. She can't just leave. You need to get real. I guess you don't know this, so forgive my crassness, but you really don't even have an argument.

Edited January 3, 2014 by meand

[spare5]

Here's my guess on how this will play out .....

Suthep's mob will cause traffic chaos by blocking intersections (with the tacit approval of the Army top brass who can stand a small hit on their business interests in return for longer term gains) and just like with the airport blockade this will motivate the senior officials to take action so the Electoral Commission will postpone the February election and the Courts to take action against Yingluck and her party for corruption and ban her party and install a Civilian Committee.

The Redshirts will then march into Bangkok and cause more chaos (supported by the Shinawatra businesses who can stand a small hit on their business interests in return for longer term gains) and this will force the Civilian Committee to call an election which the Reds will win and we can start all over again.

Have I missed anything?

Yes.The red shirt number now can't even fill a stadium.

[Boxclever]

So Bangkok gets shutdown.

Businesses have to close.

People cant get to work or will be intimidated trying to.

Businesses will go bankrupt

People will lose there jobs

Ordinary folk will accumulate more debt

Cant pay the rent cant pay for food etc.

Loans wont get repaid

Homes get foreclosed

Cars repossessed

Crime will go up as the police will be preoccupied

The list goes on

Are the people really thinking about the consequences of this?

NO as they wont think past today.

Sad that they can be manipulated so easily

Small price to pay in order to rid Thailand of the Thaksin mafia!

I say Good luck to them all!

Do you know that the yellow shirts leaders are telling their followers to boycott Farang businesses like Lotus and Mackro because it is putting Thai money into the hands of corrupt westerners that support free elections and democracy?

Be very carefull what you wish for my friend.

[Carl64]

It's time for a third party to come in and assist! I wonder who that could be?

[spare5]

So Bangkok gets shutdown.

Businesses have to close.

People cant get to work or will be intimidated trying to.

Businesses will go bankrupt

People will lose there jobs

Ordinary folk will accumulate more debt

Cant pay the rent cant pay for food etc.

Loans wont get repaid

Homes get foreclosed

Cars repossessed

Crime will go up as the police will be preoccupied

The list goes on

Are the people really thinking about the consequences of this?

NO as they wont think past today.

Sad that they can be manipulated so easily

Small price to pay in order to rid Thailand of the Thaksin mafia!

I say Good luck to them all!

Do you know that the yellow shirts leaders are telling their followers to boycott Farang businesses like Lotus and Mackro because it is putting Thai money into the hands of corrupt westerners that support free elections and democracy?

Be very carefull what you wish for my friend.

Good on them.

[MunterHunter]

Yea and replace him with a raving lunatic who wants to take rights away from the people, have the country for himself and rule with an iron fist, he wants to model Thailand on Nth Korea. I think Thailand is better off the way it is and not with the madman Suthep ruling.

I was with you right up until the point you said "Suthep"

At first, i thought you were talking about Thaksin and his in-bred group of blood suckers (family) intent on scraping every last baht from this country.

[Nowhereman60]

Soon the tanks will be on the streets, but they will be rolling down to Democracy Monument. So Suthep you need to get your Panzer division ready for action.

[spare5]

Soon the tanks will be on the streets, but they will be rolling down to Democracy Monument. So Suthep you need to get your Panzer division ready for action.

Sorry, but the tanks are on the "People's" side.

[Ozymandias]

So Bangkok gets shutdown.

Businesses have to close.

People cant get to work or will be intimidated trying to.

Businesses will go bankrupt

People will lose there jobs

Ordinary folk will accumulate more debt

Cant pay the rent cant pay for food etc.

Loans wont get repaid

Homes get foreclosed

Cars repossessed

Crime will go up as the police will be preoccupied

The list goes on

Are the people really thinking about the consequences of this?

NO as they wont think past today.

Sad that they can be manipulated so easily

People are definitely thinking of the consequences and thinking past today -- that's EXACTLY why so many people think that this is necessary. Do you have children who are Thai citizens? I do, four to be exact. If you do, do you want them to grow up and live in a country run by a kleptocracy? I don't.

I have a Thai daughter and don't wish her to grow up in a country where one man leading a minority can successfully overturn democracy. I would hope that my daughter would respect the decision of the majority, even though she may disagree with it, as that is at the very heart of any true democracy. As is the army's subservience to a government elected by that majority. As is the enforcement of the law, regardless of the status or wealth of those who break it. It's clear, then, that Thailand is no place to teach a child these principles. 65-75% of Thais support corruption that benefits them personally. Politicians of all hues are irretrievably corrupt, but amongst the worst are Thaksin & Suthep, which you would know if you read your recent Thai political history. Thailand is surely one of the few countries where the politically corrupt can lead a mass campaign against corruption.

It takes a land of sheep to accomplish all this.

[GarryP]

I can respect anybody, and I mean anybody, when their arguments are logical and they are willing to sit down and speak with the opposition. This, however, is madness. From my point of view, the only "argument" I can see is "we want Thaksin out". That does not really pass as legitimate, sensible discourse. Then, demanding that things happen, without talking or compromising, all while threatening the city's well being and safety of its people? Why is this even being tolerated? I don't understand any of this. At the first sign of Suthep breaking the law, he shuld have been thrown into a jail cell, and a few of his followers who were occupying should have been thrown in for a while as well. Let's see how passionate these people are when they start getting thrown into prison cells. From what I saw on the streets, these are not passionate people, they are people wanting to have a good time and blow whistles on the street, and they have nothing better to do. It is sad to say, but I think the entire state of current affairs in Thailand is perfectly representative of this illogical and non-reasoning country.

Why does it not pass as "legitimate, sensible discourse."? Thaksin is running the government by proxy. This government should have been dissolved for the very fact that it is being run by a fugitive from justice and those MPs who are taking orders from him or visiting him to curry favor should all be banned for life.

The government is being run by its elected leader. Even taking all your "arguments" as fact, you still don't make sense. That is what I don't get at all. She has agreed to a revote. I don't even think it is legal for her to just vacate her office (at the behest of a mob, or not). Can you imagine if it was? We could have PM's running the country one day, and retired and off living in another country the next. She can't just leave. You need to get real. I guess you don't know this, so forgive my crassness, but you really don't even have an argument.

The government is being run by Thaksin. He is the de facto prime minister, and Yingluk is his face so your first sentence is wrong to begin with. In any case, it should never have been allowed to get this far in the first place. As soon as the government acknowledged that it was receiving instructions from Thaksin it should have been dissolved. You cannot argue that he is not running the show when even PTP acknowledge this; "Thaksin thinks, PTP does" was one of its platforms in the last election.

Nothing is preventing Yingluk from resigning apart from her brother, others with their finger in the pie and the arguments of a number of law academics who quote the law without regard to what is morally the right thing to do. And since when has the law been held inviolable by this government. She can't resign, my arse.

[mudscrubber]

Civil disobedience is a timely traditional practice of non-violent protest. For those who don't believe in protest of any kind whatsoever, then perhaps you have the benefit of living in a part of the globe not yet discovered. But for those that do leave room for protest, civil disobedience is as peaceful as you can get. If you look at the history of protests in American history and throughout the world, many have been quite violent, though not all. The ones that are brought about by peaceful means have a special place in history, and for many, this is what will happen this time. The army has firmly taken itself out of the protest, and the police will not be able to control a street walk as massive as this without creating international consequences.

You mean like when the PDRC crashed a truck into the Thai-Japanese stadium? Or beating on bystanders and threatening members of the press? It was you who in an earlier post expressed disapproval of disrupting the electoral process. These people are hardly peaceful. Hypocrite much? And as for the international community - it has show itself overwhelmingly to disapprove of the PDRC and its attempts to save democracy by destroying it. Of course, earlier you wrote that the international community doesn't understand the special situation here. Hypocrite much more? Truly your posts are obviously not inspired by principles since your arguments contradict themselves, but by animus towards the big majority of Thais who oppose the PDRC and the PDC.

[soi41]

Soon the tanks will be on the streets, but they will be rolling down to Democracy Monument. So Suthep you need to get your Panzer division ready for action.

Sorry, but the tanks are on the "People's" side.

Sometimes I wonder, do people actually believe in the crap they are posting??