Can I rent out a room to others which I have already paid rent for?

[Zaptail]

It seems I have to leave Thailand early due to urgent matters for a month or so, and I have already paid rent to my place for the coming month. Is it possible for me to rent it out to someone else while I am gone?

I can't get a refund on my rent, even though I haven't paid it yet. it would be a waste of a good 30,000 bhat. What do you think I should do?

[Boater]

So you haven't paid the rent yet ?

Sent from my iPhone 6

using ThaiVisa app

[Zaptail]

Nope, but they're going to deduct it from my credit card as agreed on signed contract whether or not I stay.

[Tropicalevo]

You should check your contract for a clause on sub-letting.

[Mole]

Why don't you just ask them if they're OK with this?

Or even better, explain them your situation and just ask if they won't charge you while you're not there.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Mole

[Jasun]

Yes possible, unless it's it's specifically not allowed in your lease. Keep in mind you'll be liable for any damage caused by the sub tenant.

[Zaptail]

I told them that I'm leaving earlier than expected, and that my 'friends' who planned to join me next month are still coming anyways.. so they'll be staying without me at the apartment, but I will only be responsible for paying the rent. All other utilities and damages will be paid by whoever is staying. I'll likely write up an agreement and sign it beforehand, so who ever rents the place through me needs to agree with that.

[Birdman]

best thing to do now: wait and say later, that they, the "friends", will not come and that you will leave earlier anyway and sorry and sorry and ask for the refund strongly.

No give > you protest > which will help nothing but bargain power > and you insist, that you, in this case, will look for other customers

No > forget the the refund, at least you have tried

[Zaptail]

Honestly that is the best way to do it, but it is quite obvious they are in the business for the money. If only I knew someone who could do the talking for me to actually give this a chance. Truth is I'm terrible when it comes to defending my own rights.

I started a post on tripadvisor to see if I can find anyone who is interested.. But I don't like the gut feeling it gives me.

best thing to do now: wait and say later, that they, the "friends", will not come and that you will leave earlier anyway and sorry and sorry and ask for the refund strongly.

No give > you protest > which will help nothing but bargain power > and you insist, that you, in this case, will look for other customers

No > forget the the refund, at least you have tried

[Mole]

Just go and talk to them man. In fact, I have a feeling there's very high likelihood that they may actually refund you the money.

You're not staying as long as you initially planned, so of course they'll refund.

Talking to them and explaining the situation is the first thing you should have tried. If they won't refund, then you can start worrying about what to do next....

However if they do indeed give you refund, then there's no need to wasting anybody's time on this matter.

Besides, technically it's not really a "refund" since you haven't paid yet. This is why I am quite sure they'll agree to not charge you.

If they won't agree, just threaten with a chargeback, and I'm pretty sure they'll eventually agree.

And... <deleted> is wrong with you?? Telling them a lie that your "friends" will join you. WTH didn't you just be honest and tell them the truth???

Just tell them that your "friends" aren't coming afterall, and you'd rather not pay. I'm pretty sure they'll agree.

Good luck finding somebody who'll cover up your lies. You're gonna have to dig yourself up from this, or just let them charge you. For all they know, your "friends" are gonna stay, so it'll be occupied.

The faster in advance you let them know that their room will be vacant, the better, so they can re-schedule it for somebody else.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Mole

[Mole]

What you need to do is:

1. Ask them if they can "refund" you for the period you're not staying.

2. If they won't refund, then ask them if they will be OK with if you rent it out to somebody else.

3. If they say no, and you're gonna go ahead anyway, then it's constituted a fraud and I'm not so sure if you're allowed to get advice about these things here.

To be honest, I'm a native Thai and I was contemplating helping you, but not after I saw you've been lying to them. One can't be so sure how honest you're with us here either. Besides your story is kinda strange. Did you make some kind of contract to pay the rent in advance or what? If that's so, why? If you're under contract, then I'm pretty sure there isn't really much you can do than just according to the agreement. Next time, don't get into agreement like this.

And your plan to deceive them by re-renting it to "friends" doesn't really seems like a good idea to me. Don't do it, unless they actually won't give you refund and are OK with this. (Which I doubt they will allow, but I'm pretty sure they'll refund.) Then it's up to you to find someone to re-rent it to. (fat chance)

[Zaptail]

Huh??

The 'lie' has nothing to do with them being deceived in a wrongful manner. They are getting their money whether or not someone stays there, as I am choosing to respect their refund policy of no refund ever (ridiculous and greedy). They already have the truth, which is that I am leaving. I just do not want to allow them the opportunity to prevent me from protecting my financial interests, as they could rent it to someone else, despite me having fully paid for that month. There is no way I can check whether they are renting my space to others while I am gone if they choose to do it secretly and without my knowledge, and they have no right to do this when I have paid for that space, according to my contract..

Also, since I have the decency to protect their financial interest by respecting their refund policy, them choosing to respect my financial interests is not in question for them in turn. I will protect my own financial interests since I have done the same to them, and that means preventing them from renting it out to others when I have paid for my space.

That being said, I have every right to ensure that my money is well spent in my interests, and in a righteous manner. The least I can do is make the best of the situation, and try to lease it to someone else as long as it is legal. Which it is in my case, thankfully. By choosing to handle the situation the way I am doing so now, I giving myself the freedom to redeem what is lost naturally. If no one ends up renting my place during the month, then so be it, I have lost everything and that will be accepted. I rather have my situation in the hands of God instead of greedy people who do not consider my financial interests, nor do they want to do what is right.

The only reason I have 'lied' is because I am not good at all with being confrontational about my rights. I am peaceful in nature and do not what to create chaos nor let them get away with being greedy as explained above. If no one turns up to rent my place, I can just stall them, and say the friends are coming even though they never will. At least this way they will not rent it out to someone else while I have already paid for the place.

I believe this is a good lesson for those who think that all lies and deceptions are wrong. I will respect every written law that I am bound to agree upon by being in this country, and that in turn allows me to respect myself under the same laws. Golden rule anyone?

Just go and talk to them man. In fact, I have a feeling there's very high likelihood that they may actually refund you the money.

You're not staying as long as you initially planned, so of course they'll refund.

Talking to them and explaining the situation is the first thing you should have tried. If they won't refund, then you can start worrying about what to do next....
However if they do indeed give you refund, then there's no need to wasting anybody's time on this matter.

Besides, technically it's not really a "refund" since you haven't paid yet. This is why I am quite sure they'll agree to not charge you.

If they won't agree, just threaten with a chargeback, and I'm pretty sure they'll eventually agree.

And... <deleted> is wrong with you?? Telling them a lie that your "friends" will join you. WTH didn't you just be honest and tell them the truth???

Just tell them that your "friends" aren't coming afterall, and you'd rather not pay. I'm pretty sure they'll agree.

Good luck finding somebody who'll cover up your lies. You're gonna have to dig yourself up from this, or just let them charge you. For all they know, your "friends" are gonna stay, so it'll be occupied.

The faster in advance you let them know that their room will be vacant, the better, so they can re-schedule it for somebody else.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Zaptail

[Zaptail]

Just thought I'd mention that what I am trying to say here is, I admire those who have that personal power to stand their ground over what is right, esp during times of oppression. I am a bit lacking in such personal power, and thus to have them submit to the truth of the situation in this way is not likely going to happen through me.

If I had a guy come over just to be the whistle blower, expressing what is right in such a manner to them, it would be pretty darn heroic. It's the stuff that steamy romantic dreams are made out of.

Honestly that is the best way to do it, but it is quite obvious they are in the business for the money. If only I knew someone who could do the talking for me to actually give this a chance. Truth is I'm terrible when it comes to defending my own rights.

I started a post on tripadvisor to see if I can find anyone who is interested.. But I don't like the gut feeling it gives me.

best thing to do now: wait and say later, that they, the "friends", will not come and that you will leave earlier anyway and sorry and sorry and ask for the refund strongly.

No give > you protest > which will help nothing but bargain power > and you insist, that you, in this case, will look for other customers

No > forget the the refund, at least you have tried

Edited January 4, 2014 by Zaptail

[Mole]

They are not "greedy". A contract is a contract. YOU decided to rent this place for that amount of time, preventing them to book it for somebody else.

All the rest you're saying is just bull to try justifying your lies. It'll be considered a fraud no matter how you try to spin it.

Yeah, right, you're acting in a "righteous manner", by attempting to commit a fraud.

You be your own hero dude.

How do you know they won't give you refund if you haven't even asked them?????

[Mole]

You know what? I also really don't think they'll be renting your room to somebody else even though you won't be there anymore. They should have plenty of other rooms. And if their occupancy rate is so fully booked, then they should be more than happy to give you a refund so they can get rid of you and rent the room to somebody else who will actually live there and potentially provide other extra income such as laundry or whatever.

Besides, they would assume your "friends" would be staying instead of you, which what you deceived them, so for all they know, the room will be occupied.

The 'lie' has nothing to do with them being deceived in a wrongful manner.

<deleted> man... just <deleted>...

[futsukayoi]

If you cancel your credit card and get a new one issued they cannot charge you.

[Big Pinkie]

i though OP was concerned about visa issues. there are threads on here about farang being busted for just discussing potential rental of their wifes room accommodation business.

[evadgib]

This thread fits somewhere between Troll and Pinocchio

Edited January 5, 2014 by evadgib

[Zaptail]

Ugh, too much drama from you my friend. I cannot care about your emotional problems if you continue to stay commited to misunderstanding.

You know what? I also really don't think they'll be renting your room to somebody else even though you won't be there anymore. They should have plenty of other rooms. And if their occupancy rate is so fully booked, then they should be more than happy to give you a refund so they can get rid of you and rent the room to somebody else who will actually live there and potentially provide other extra income such as laundry or whatever.

Besides, they would assume your "friends" would be staying instead of you, which what you deceived them, so for all they know, the room will be occupied.

The 'lie' has nothing to do with them being deceived in a wrongful manner.

<deleted> man... just <deleted>...

[Mole]

Despite your pathetic attempt of spin and flattering, people in here understand perfectly what you're trying to do.

[Zaptail]

Haha only if I could.. but I'm not looking to create trouble. I spoke to them again, and told them that the people who are staying will pay the rent for that month to me directly, even though the money is being charged from my card. They first inquired that I pay them straight up with cash instead of through my credit card, but I declined. I'm not sure why they wanted to do that, but I didn't feel like it was a good idea.

At the end, I will have them sign the same agreement I have the person who stays in my room sign. So they are pretty much aware of everything, and that way all of us are secured.

If you cancel your credit card and get a new one issued they cannot charge you.

[PoorSucker]

Do you have a work permit as a realtor , have you considered that you must pay tax on the money you collect as sub leaser?

[Zaptail]

Haha, I don't need anyone to defend for my rights, I am doing quite fine by myself actually. I was just mentioning what I admire, and sharing that I happen to think its really hot. =) Anyways, if what you say is true, then that makes you the only who does not understand perfectly what I'm trying to do.

Despite your pathetic attempt of spin and flattering, people in here understand perfectly what you're trying to do.

[Zaptail]

I do not need a work permit as a retailer because I am not making a profit off the rented place. I am basically asking for a split of the rent with whoever decides to share the room with me, minus the fact that I am not there. The front desk allows me to have up to 3 people stay, and as long as they get their rent, they are happy. They also will be made aware of how much the other two are contributing to the rent, as I am doing this for my security.

I am not a subleaser, but simply sharing the place with others who would like to stay. Only problem is I do not have anyone yet, but plan to. They are not staying for free of course. I mean when you have the typical backpackers who share a rented room, are they not splitting the rent equally if that is the terms they agree on between themselves?

Work permits are for realtors. I am not a realtor so I do not need a work permit. I am not leasing the place as a realtor of the hotel, but leasing the place as a customer/tenant to the hotel. I have paid for the capacity of 3 people to stay, and whether or not other people are there to fill up this space is expressed as none of their concern other than security (knowing that these people are staying so the guard knows). To know if and how much each tenant contributes to the final pay of the rent is between us and is none of the hotel's interest, as they just want the rent. Tell me of a hotel that pries into such a level of personal affairs, or even wants to. The hotel would be at risk of losing money if one decided from the group to not pay for their rent, as the hotel was charging each person individually.

So why am I handling the situation the way I am? Because I have decided to treat their financial interests with respect. I will give them their money despite me not staying. If two other people stay, and pay their part of the rent, but I do not stay, I am still paying for my rent. Also, this means that if the other two do not pay the rent, I am still paying. I have respected, and secured the financial interests and agreement of this hotel.

And it is by this way that through respecting the financial interest of another, my own happens to also secured. Do you understand the situation?

I call the people who will be staying friends because I do not have any other fitting name for it. We are helping each other. They pay me a part of the rent because a rent needs to be paid to stay, and so I do not lose all the money.. and in turn they have a nice secured place that is much cheaper than the original rent price, since I am paying for my occupancy.

They are not customers to me, they are customers to the hotel because what they are paying through me is going to the hotel's rent.

If you think that signing a contract to rent a place means I have no right to who stays there including myself, you are wrong. I have to pay rent to exclusively have that joined right. The rent needs to be paid even if I choose not to physically stay, not because I need to pay the rent according to the contract I agreed to, but I signed that contract so that if I need a place to stay, I have one.

I have chosen to respect their financial interest. Yes. I have willingly chosen to abide by the contract even though it is downright unfair for me. I don't have to do this, I can walk off without paying as suggested by many here, but that would be deceitful too. Wrongly deceitful. I chose to agree to a contract and then walked back on my word.

I enjoy being a good person.

Do you have a work permit as a realtor , have you considered that you must pay tax on the money you collect as sub leaser?

Edited January 5, 2014 by Zaptail

[Zaptail]

I edit like heck cause I'm a writer. Sorry =) Habits.

[laobali]

It's obvious you're a writer. The amount you have written about this would fill a book.

[how241]

Why don't you just ask them if they're OK with this?

Or even better, explain them your situation and just ask if they won't charge you while you're not there.

+1....You could also do it 'on-the-side' , if you know a trust worthy renter.

[falangadang]

Tell them that despite what may be written on the "contract" you are not willing or reasonably obliged to pay for something for which you have not received the benefit.

At this stage the only benefit you have received is an agreement that they will rent the room to you.

There should be a clause in the contract that provides a reasonable deposit penalty (which is NOT the full rental but a part thereof).

If there is no such clause (to be expected in Thailand) then you can claim that the contract is not valid in terms of their insistence to take a full 3 months rental fee because you did not give genuine consent to such a condition.

Possession is 9/10ths of the law and at this stage as you still have not handed over or been debited the money then you have control. If this was cash you would be fully SCREWED but this is a credit card transaction.

Put all of this in writing to them and put a stop on the credit card transaction. If they happen to have processed it already just contact your bank and request a charge back stating the conditions being that they have debited the money without full authority and have imposed unjust contractual conditions that you did not give genuine consent to.

Note that NONE of this would be necessary if they had been reasonable.

I have found that in Thailand whenever you hand any money (cash) over to anyone you do so with zero expectation of ever seeing it again.

We gave a developer 500,000bht in cash and then had to take them to court for a refund when they failed to deliver. 3 court decisions in our favor over a 6 year period and we still haven't seen a dime and will be lucky if we ever do anytime soon (our lawyer says MOST civil suit cases involving money typically take 7 to 10 years to settle.. AMAZING Thailand!)

[Bangkok45]

Good on you, Zaptail! I can totally understand your predicament. All in all, it's a 'white lie' that you had committed. Nothing serious! I don't know if 'Mr. Mole' is really a native of Thailand. Because Thais are normally unconfrontational, much less, antagonistic. Phew! That tirade of his is something out of the ordinary...haha.

Nonetheless, here's my advice:

1. Do explain in detail your predicament to the landlord.

2. Ask permission to sublet it during your absence with responsibility for damage being on you.

3. Accord the same damage clause to your sub-leasee directly to you.

4. If all of the above fails then like you have said, accept it and write it off as a loss.

Chok dee!

[Mole]

<deleted> is that supposed to mean that I'm not really a native Thai?

A "white lie" is still a fraud if it's against their regulations.

I'm not even sure if that so called "agreement" you're gonna have your "friends" sign is even legally valid, since it's based on a fraud.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Mole