Fat shaming rhetoric on this forum has gotten out of hand

[Jingthing]

In my opinion, this forum would be much improved if it could be a COMFORTABLE place for people with issues around overweight and obesity.

Free of fat shaming rhetoric

Free of rude insults of fat people depicting them as lazy pigs. (Like that kind of abuse isn't available in the greater society all the time, why here?)

However, I have noticed a pattern of some posters mostly being here just to hurl insults at fat people.

I am hoping this can be addressed somehow.

No, I am not talking about people who sincerely believe in orthodox energy in - energy out models of obesity.

I am talking about blatant INSULTS directed at fat people as a class.

I won't repeat them. They are easy enough to find.

Imagine the fat people who are not posting on this supposed to be a HEALTH forum because they know they'll just become a target of insults about their weight problem.

I think this is a forum that really CAN help more people. I am simply proposing that the nasty fat shaming be gone.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Jingthing

[robblok]

I am one who believes in the model of engery in vs energy out (though also believe in low carb of obese persons because of insulin resistance).

I don't believe in shaming obese people, though i admit when i see someone who can hardly walk I do think by myself how they could ever let it come to that point.

I honestly believe there are people who are doing all the right things and still have a hard time getting the results just as i still believe there is a category who really does not care one bit and does overeat.

You won't catch me making stupid remarks about them. When i was a lot heavier the moo and oean remarks were plenty by Thais though foreigners did not seem to make those remarks. I wonder how often people get really shamed, never heard from it from my dad who has a big belly.

I am not sure how big you are JT and its impolite to ask, but have you ever been shamed r/t ? (feel free not to answer)

[Jingthing]

This wasn't about you RB. Don't take it personally. I already made it crystal clear that expressing orthodox theories of energy in - energy out are not expressions of psychological abuse. If you haven't noticed the type of post that I AM referring to, I suggest you take another look.

This topic is about GENERALITIES (not personally about me so stop trying to make it personal that way) about obviously insulting attacks on fat people in GENERAL. I feel this it would be a MAJOR IMPROVEMENT to this forum if that type of nastiness could go away.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Jingthing

[Sheryl]

If you see remarkls of thsi sort please use the report function nd Mods will take care of it as in no way allowed.

[h90]

This wasn't about you RB. Don't take it personally. I already made it crystal clear that expressing orthodox theories of energy in - energy out are not expressions of psychological abuse. If you haven't noticed the type of post that I AM referring to, I suggest you take another look.

This topic is about GENERALITIES (not personally about me so stop trying to make it personal that way) about obviously insulting attacks on fat people in GENERAL. I feel this it would be a MAJOR IMPROVEMENT to this forum if that type of nastiness could go away.

yes the lazy pig (not from me) was over the top, but it is something that is said quickly without really meaning "pig" as an insult.

On the other side if we are nice, friendly and political correct we get nowhere and it happens that someone slips out something without thinking too much.

What I worry more is that there is no (or not much) exchange of ideas, tips, tricks at all...it is dead here as if there wouldn't be any fat people. Actually you are the only one who bring something new (even if I often don't agree with your opinions).

As well there is no sharing of results here. And from my impression most postings are from people who won already. Robblok who is fit. You who lost a lot weight, me (I lost 20kg), but non who is struggling...

[h90]

If you see remarkls of thsi sort please use the report function nd Mods will take care of it as in no way allowed.

I'll also take care better what I post

[robblok]

This wasn't about you RB. Don't take it personally. I already made it crystal clear that expressing orthodox theories of energy in - energy out are not expressions of psychological abuse. If you haven't noticed the type of post that I AM referring to, I suggest you take another look.

This topic is about GENERALITIES (not personally about me so stop trying to make it personal that way) about obviously insulting attacks on fat people in GENERAL. I feel this it would be a MAJOR IMPROVEMENT to this forum if that type of nastiness could go away.

yes the lazy pig (not from me) was over the top, but it is something that is said quickly without really meaning "pig" as an insult.

On the other side if we are nice, friendly and political correct we get nowhere and it happens that someone slips out something without thinking too much.

What I worry more is that there is no (or not much) exchange of ideas, tips, tricks at all...it is dead here as if there wouldn't be any fat people. Actually you are the only one who bring something new (even if I often don't agree with your opinions).

As well there is no sharing of results here. And from my impression most postings are from people who won already. Robblok who is fit. You who lost a lot weight, me (I lost 20kg), but non who is struggling...

As for loosing fat, however hard it is.. it might be harder to keep the lifestyle to keep it off. Many people who lost weight seem to think they can go back to their old ways. Over the time that i have posted here I have seen many who started the journey to loose the weight, as long as they were busy loosing weight they posted a lot here.. once done they grew silent.

Still curious if fat shaming is prevalent in real life in Thailand too or just on this forum.

[kevvy]

I am fat or obese to be more truthful . But no one knows my story as I wont tell it because , well because some of the pricks here , and this forum is here to help us fatties...Really??????

Thanks jingthing I read all your postsw here.

[robblok]

I am fat or obese to be more truthful . But no one knows my story as I wont tell it because , well because some of the pricks here , and this forum is here to help us fatties...Really??????

Thanks jingthing I read all your postsw here.

Question is more are you doing something about it yourself.. I might be wrong what i have read about you (if so my apologies) but i seem to remember something about you having a disability from work. That would make it harder to keep in shape and it would be a matter of intake monitoring.

Cutting out alcohol often helps a lot (but is hard for many people) it is all about choices in the end. If you enjoy a beer and your health is not at risk because of your weight. Then the choice could be screw it i love my beer I don't care about weight.

[Jingthing]

I am fat or obese to be more truthful . But no one knows my story as I wont tell it because , well because some of the pricks here , and this forum is here to help us fatties...Really??????

Thanks jingthing I read all your postsw here.

Thanks. I think there is a comfortable non-judgemental place between a fat liberation party and whatever this joint has become.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Showbags]

I have yet to venture into this forum...and I can just fit in meself.

I have lost 5 kilos in last 8 weeks and that includes some ups and downs over xmas and new year, it can be done as I was always one to procrastinate and put things off.

If i can do it anyone can do it.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Showbags

[MrHammer]

Fat shaming is quite popular in Thailand, why do you think they are so thin?

On the other hand, americans don't seem to do it which is why that kind of widespread morbid obesity is mostly only found in the US.

Fat shaming is good, it gives negative emotions which in most people encourages one to take action.

[Showbags]

Fat shaming is quite popular in Thailand, why do you think they are so thin?

On the other hand, americans don't seem to do it which is why that kind of widespread morbid obesity is mostly only found in the US.

Fat shaming is good, it gives negative emotions which in most people encourages one to take action.

I agree, especially on the internet, most adults should be able to shake it off and get on with it.

Shake off the insults I mean, not the fat....after all, its just the internet, land of make believe.

In fact...why are you fat on the internet anyway when you could be Adonis...

[robblok]

Fat shaming is quite popular in Thailand, why do you think they are so thin?

On the other hand, americans don't seem to do it which is why that kind of widespread morbid obesity is mostly only found in the US.

Fat shaming is good, it gives negative emotions which in most people encourages one to take action.

I did not need others to shame me when i was 107 kg.. I hated it when my picture was taken. My t shirt did not go off that much. I would hate shopping for clothes. At some point it was a conscious decision that it was enough. The Thais made their remarks moo.. ouan ect. Foreigners made no remarks.

But I needed nobody but my myself to shame me and now looking back at those pictures i vow never to become like that again.

[robblok]

Fat shaming is quite popular in Thailand, why do you think they are so thin?

On the other hand, americans don't seem to do it which is why that kind of widespread morbid obesity is mostly only found in the US.

Fat shaming is good, it gives negative emotions which in most people encourages one to take action.

I agree, especially on the internet, most adults should be able to shake it off and get on with it.

Shake off the insults I mean, not the fat....after all, its just the internet, land of make believe.

In fact...why are you fat on the internet anyway when you could be Adonis...

I agree.. i always take things with more then a pinch of salt on the internet. I know that I am more confrontational here as for real. I assume the same is true for others.

[singa-traz]

...

Fat shaming is good, it gives negative emotions which in most people encourages one to take action.

To a certain extent, I agree with this statement.

To change, you need to feel uncomfortable.

JT, if I may, you should take some time to reflect on why a few comments from anonymous forum users, trigger such "an emotional" response.

Why do you care about what those unknown users are writting?

[robblok]

I have yet to venture into this forum...and I can just fit in meself.

I have lost 5 kilos in last 8 weeks and that includes some ups and downs over xmas and new year, it can be done as I was always one to procrastinate and put things off.

If i can do it anyone can do it.

Most people can loose the weight its a choice (a hard one because you have to give up some things). It is kinda like learning Thai, i know i could be much better at it if i dedicated more time to it.

But I have always been one to think that i could shape my own life and things are not pre set fully. Now of course with my kind of body i would never become a distance athlete but if i wanted to i could become decent.

Thing is i feel that people can change their lives, i will never accept that i am predestined too.. ect. ect (ok die I will and pay taxes)

[robblok]

...

Fat shaming is good, it gives negative emotions which in most people encourages one to take action.

To a certain extent, I agree with this statement.

To change, you need to feel uncomfortable.

JT, if I may, you should take some time to reflect on why a few comments from anonymous forum users, trigger such "an emotional" response.

Why do you care about what those unknown users are writting?

Yes.. you have to feel uncomfortable / not happy with the current situation. Else you will never change. However to totally destroy someones self image is the other extreme. That is probably why you said to a certain extent.

[I Like Thai]

The world is out to get me

[Jingthing]

...

Fat shaming is good, it gives negative emotions which in most people encourages one to take action.

If people actually believe that fat shaming is productive and helpful rather than what it really is DESTRUCTIVE AND ABUSIVE, my appeal for a change in TONE here to a truly supportive (and yes COMPASSIONATE) forum is hopeless.

I kind of already knew that knowing the personalities here but I thought I would give it a college try and raise this problem which is a real problem whether you see it or not to a higher visibility.

I don't think this problem in TONE here can be ever solved with moderation. I think it has to come from people's hearts. Now get ready for some snarky comment about fat people and heart attacks and how they deserve them for having no self control ...

Edited January 7, 2014 by Jingthing

[Showbags]

...

Fat shaming is good, it gives negative emotions which in most people encourages one to take action.

If people actually believe that fat shaming is productive and helpful rather than what it really is DESTRUCTIVE AND ABUSIVE, my appeal for a change in TONE here to a truly supportive (and yes COMPASSIONATE) forum is hopeless.

I kind of already knew that knowing the personalities here but I thought I would give it a college try and raise this problem which is a real problem whether you see it or not to a higher visibility.

I don't think this problem in TONE here can be solved with moderation. I think it has to come from people's hearts. Now get ready for some snarky comment about fat people and heart attacks and how they deserve them for having no self control ...

There ya go...join in the fun

[Jingthing]

There ya go...join in the fun

Please do not alter the emphasis in any quoted posts.

[Jingthing]

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/fat-shaming-actually-increases-risk-becoming-or-staying-obese-new-8C10751491

I believe this totally. Fat shaming HURTS fat people. It does the OPPOSITE of encouraging them to lose weight and keep off weight. That motivation is a complicated INTERNAL process and the long term dedicated action to make that happen requires CONTINUED social SUPPORT.

This forum in many ways provides some support sometimes, but the overall TONE is really hostile. There is always either an undercurrent or full break out of full on verbal abuse against fat people. It's not a safe place psychologically for fat people facing struggle.

I would like to see this FIXED. It can't be fixed externally. We the posters are the only ones that can possibly create a warm COMPASSIONATE and SUPPORTIVE internet space that will really help fat people, not mess with them.

Do you care to help with that?

'Fat shaming' actually increases risk of becoming or staying obese, new study says

Melissa DahlTODAY

Making overweight or obese people feel bad about their bodies doesn’t do anything to motivate them to lose weight – actually, a new study finds it does just the opposite.

People who felt discriminated against because of their weight were more likely to either become or stay obese, finds a new report published this week in the journal PLoS ONE.

“Weight discrimination, in addition to being hurtful and demeaning, has real consequences for the individual’s physical health,” says study author Angelina Sutin, a psychologist and assistant professor at the Florida State University College of Medicine in Tallahassee, Fla.

It’s a funny cultural paradox: Most American adults – around 70 percent -- are overweight, and more than a third are obese. And yet research – not to mention popular culture – shows that we perceive obese Americans to be lazy, unsuccessful schlubs with no will power.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Jingthing

[singa-traz]

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/fat-shaming-actually-increases-risk-becoming-or-staying-obese-new-8C10751491

I believe this totally. Fat shaming HURTS fat people. It does the OPPOSITE of encouraging them to lose weight and keep off weight. That motivation is a complicated INTERNAL process and the long term dedicated action to make that happen requires CONTINUED social SUPPORT.

This forum in many ways provides some support sometimes, but the overall TONE is really hostile. There is always either an undercurrent or full break out of full on verbal abuse against fat people. It's not a safe place psychologically for fat people facing struggle.

I would like to see this FIXED. It can't be fixed externally. We the posters are the only ones that can possibly create a warm COMPASSIONATE and SUPPORTIVE internet space that will really help fat people, not mess with them.

Do you care to help with that?

...

---

Yes, with one condition: You weekly publish your progress (Weight, Activities, Food in-take)

Show this forum commitment and you will get the support you are waiting ... and the unpleasant comments will disapear.

[sarcasm on]

Typing on a computer is not known to be an effective weight loss activity!

[sarcasm off]

Here is my own progress.

Weight

Burned Calories via physical activities

Food In-take

No tracking in place.

---

So JT, do we have a Deal?

[robblok]

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/fat-shaming-actually-increases-risk-becoming-or-staying-obese-new-8C10751491

I believe this totally. Fat shaming HURTS fat people. It does the OPPOSITE of encouraging them to lose weight and keep off weight. That motivation is a complicated INTERNAL process and the long term dedicated action to make that happen requires CONTINUED social SUPPORT.

This forum in many ways provides some support sometimes, but the overall TONE is really hostile. There is always either an undercurrent or full break out of full on verbal abuse against fat people. It's not a safe place psychologically for fat people facing struggle.

I would like to see this FIXED. It can't be fixed externally. We the posters are the only ones that can possibly create a warm COMPASSIONATE and SUPPORTIVE internet space that will really help fat people, not mess with them.

Do you care to help with that?

...

---

Yes, with one condition: You weekly publish your progress (Weight, Activities, Food in-take)

Show this forum commitment and you will get the support you are waiting ... and the unpleasant comments will disapear.

[sarcasm on]

Typing on a computer is not known to be an effective weight loss activity!

[sarcasm off]

Here is my own progress.

Weight

Screen Shot 2014-01-07 at 10.42.27 PM.png

Burned Calories via physical activities

Screen Shot 2014-01-07 at 10.43.26 PM.png

Food In-take

No tracking in place.

---

So JT, do we have a Deal?

Good progress singa traz.

I used to imput my weight too on calorie count website it was a nice graph going down and down and down. I also tracked my food on there (yea i was / am obsessive). But it helped.

Now that I am on my target weight for a year now I still step on the scales every day and look in the mirror to see and of course the jeans test. I am going to make sure I don't slide.

[robblok]

@JT compassionate is one thing but sometimes people need a kick in the but and a wake up call. I am not saying shaming helps I am saying that different strategies for different people. I for one rather have a good kick in the but then to be told everything is ok and I am doing the best I can and this is what will always be.

Some people need a shoulder / some need a kick. The problem is who needs what.

[jimmybcool]

I guess I don't get it. Or maybe more people here know each other in the real world than I know. For example - who here knows what I look like?

I guess if one discusses it and admits it and someone is then rude it makes them an <deleted>. Maybe the mods will do something. But I am baffled how it comes to the fore in the first place.

BTW, I am 20 pounds heavier than I was this time last year due to knee injury and it pisses me off. I can't walk a damn golf course to help control weight or do much cardio. It blows. Overall I'd like to be 30 pounds lighter.

As to insulting people, I usually reserve that for people too ignorant to realize I am always right.

[robblok]

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9049971/the-battle-of-the-bulge/

So what to do? The government spends money asking us to eat ‘five a day’ fruit and veg, but it seems to have no effect. Nottingham, the fattest region in Britain, recently decided to spend £500,000 on replacing pavements in areas with particularly fat pedestrians, to try and encourage people to walk more. Our landscape is being, quite literally, reshaped in order to accommodate the obese. In the past few years, we have moved from being outraged about the epidemic to just planning around it. Like a middle-aged man deciding to eat what he wants and let himself go, Britain is pulling on a pair of tracksuit bottoms and heading to the fridge.

It need not be this way. For too long, my fellow doctors have pussyfooted around their obese patients, too scared to confront the, er, elephant in the room. They don’t want to cause offence. Unbelievably, draft guidelines announced last year by the National Institute of Clinical Excellence and Health (Nice) suggested that doctors should even avoid the use of the term ‘obese’ for fear that larger patients might be upset. Instead, Nice recommended advising corpulent patients that they should seek a ‘healthier weight’.

But nice euphemisms mean that people don’t confront reality. I’m not going to stop diagnosing cancer just because people don’t like hearing the dreaded word. So why should it be different when informing people that they are obese? Sometimes morbidly so. What Nice is delicately skirting round is what many doctors, nurses and dieticians will confirm: people don’t like being told that they are overweight, even if it’s objectively clearly the case. And by pretending that this is a disease, the doctors are making it even worse.

‘He should just be grateful he wasn’t turned into lasagne.’

There’s something comforting about blaming obesity on genes. It enables people to relinquish responsibility for their weight, which can be seen as outside their control. It’s nothing new, either. Years ago, fat people blamed their ‘glands’. When I started medical school, I patiently waited for us to be taught about these magical ‘glands’ that made people fat. I’m still waiting. Even when people have problems with an underactive thyroid, which can slow the metabolism and result in weight gain, this can be treated with thyroid replacement tablets and the metabolism returns to normal. As a rule, however, fat people have one thing in common: they eat more than they need to.

Certainly some people metabolise food at a different rate to others, meaning they are more likely to lay down fat stores than other people. But this is a reason to eat less, not to become fat. You cannot get away from the basic biology of the human body — fat is simply stored excess energy, and weight gain is only possible when the total amount of energy consumed exceeds the total amount of energy expended. Even those who have a genetic predisposition to become fat are not slaves to their DNA.

An in-depth study published last year, which looked at the genes of more than 20,000 people and was conducted at the Medical Research Council’s epidemiology unit in Cambridge, found some people are predisposed to be overweight. But an active lifestyle and reducing food intake can counteract that. Simple. While some will be annoyed by this research, I find it empowering. The idea that our genes control us is profoundly depressing. After all, there is more to being human than a few strands of DNA.

The rate of people considered clinically obese has risen from around 1 to 2 per cent of the population in the 1960s to over 25 per cent now. Why? A simple answer would be lifestyle, but it’s actually a little more complicated. A fascinating survey conducted by the Department of Health compared data collected from 1967 and 2010. It showed that, while people back then were slimmer, they ate fattier foods and had access to far fewer gyms. We eat better now, we work out more. But we live relatively sedentary lives. Only three out of ten households had a car then, compared to seven out of ten now. While 75 per cent of people walked for at least half an hour a day in the 1960s, this is only about 40 per cent now.

What really stands out, more than the lifestyle differences, is the sharp contrast in the attitudes towards obesity between the two different eras. The 1967 survey found that nine out of ten people had attempted to lose weight in the past year, compared with barely half of adults questioned in 2010. Perhaps most tellingly though, 40 years ago only 7 per cent of those people who considered themselves overweight had failed to do anything about it, compared with nearly half now.

It would be easy to blame Britain’s fatness on lifestyle changes, but the worst of it is attitude. People just aren’t bothering to lose weight any more. Perhaps obesity is viewed as more normal. But this is also down to the attitude that we doctors increasingly encounter in our consulting rooms: the reluctance of patients to accept that ailments can be blamed on their behaviour, for which they are reluctant to take responsibility.

Patients blame obesity on the government, cunning food manufacturers, their parents and their genes. They demand fat-loss pills on the NHS and stomach-stapling surgery as a right. In a world where health care is becoming consumerised, patients see themselves as customers. There’s not much demand for hard truths.

America has severe obesity problems, and seems resigned to them. But Britain has a National Health Service, and therefore a far higher capacity to change. It ought to be easy. Doctors should be required to tell patients a blunt truth: if you’re fat, eat less, exercise more, or both. And if you keep guzzling the tasty treats, you will die earlier. It’s not a disease, it’s a mindset — and that means it can be changed. We doctors need to be a little less understanding, a little more judgmental, and realise that our oath — ‘do no harm’ — must come before our desire to save the feelings of our patients. The truth can be the hardest drug to administer. But holding our tongues, prescribing the fat pills and bankrupting the NHS in the process is the worst solution of all.

iI got it from that link i really like some parts of it.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9049971/the-battle-of-the-bulge/

There’s something comforting about blaming obesity on genes. It enables people to relinquish responsibility for their weight, which can be seen as outside their control. It’s nothing new, either. Years ago, fat people blamed their ‘glands’. When I started medical school, I patiently waited for us to be taught about these magical ‘glands’ that made people fat. I’m still waiting. Even when people have problems with an underactive thyroid, which can slow the metabolism and result in weight gain, this can be treated with thyroid replacement tablets and the metabolism returns to normal. As a rule, however, fat people have one thing in common: they eat more than they need to.

Certainly some people metabolise food at a different rate to others, meaning they are more likely to lay down fat stores than other people. But this is a reason to eat less, not to become fat. You cannot get away from the basic biology of the human body — fat is simply stored excess energy, and weight gain is only possible when the total amount of energy consumed exceeds the total amount of energy expended. Even those who have a genetic predisposition to become fat are not slaves to their DNA.

Edited January 7, 2014 by robblok

[Loptr]

Obesity is an worldwide epidemic and is not isolated to the US.

Anything we approach in life comes down to "mind over matter". If something matters enough to you, then you and only you can do something about it. Doesn't matter if it's attaining a degree from uni or managing your weight. You and only you have control over your body. You can either treat it like a temple -or- treat like a tent, it's all up to you.

[Jingthing]

I don't see how most of the responses here have anything to do with the problem I tried to shed some attention on. Or don't agree that it IS a problem. That's OK. If the majority like the forum to remain in this kind of tone, up to y'all. Obviously, I don't agree, but I get it, nobody is forcing me to read it or post here.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Jingthing