UK Visa fee

[evadgib]

Could it be that the OP missed the fact that the THB 56 rate commences on the 13th (Monday)?

[7by7]

As the fee is now being charged in USD, the Baht rate is irrelevant.

The fee is set by parliament at £80.

Previously when it was payable by bankers draft in local currency to avoid constant changes in the amount payable due to currency fluctuations embassies used what is known as the consular rate to set the fee in the local currency.

Now that the fee is payable online they should either have continued with that system or, more logically, simply made it payable in Sterling.

There is no logical reason which I can see for making the fee payable in USD.

[theoldgit]

That's good, 7x7. I have asked the Embassy, but I'm not holding my breath on any quick response.

As have I, likewise I'm not expecting a quick, or indeed any, response

[GarryUK]

This is worrying reading as the visa is expensive enough as it is.

There's a link here on the Goverment's website for overseas British passport applications https://www.gov.uk/overseas-passports/y/thailand/applying/child/united-kingdom which says "Or you can fill in a payment instruction form for each passport you’re applying for and submit it with your application. Your credit or debit card will be charged in sterling". Is this now out-of-date and invalid?

[7by7]

Different departments, so go with what the passport people say for the passport application.

[GarryUK]

Different departments, so go with what the passport people say for the passport application.

Oh yes of course, I confused myself as I have both a visa application and a passport application to do. Why is nothing ever simple.

[7by7]

It does seem strange, though, that passport applicants in Thailand can pay in Sterling, but visa applicants have to pay in USD!

[thonglorjimmy]

It does seem strange, though, that passport applicants in Thailand can pay in Sterling, but visa applicants have to pay in USD!

With my pedantic head on I think that should read "passport applications from Thailand pay in Stirling" as passport applications from Thailand are processed in the UK. Your point remains valid though.

[PeeJay1959]

I've just dropped in on this thread and am appalled by the rip off that it seems to be. My wife will be applying for a settlement visa in a couple of months and I of course will be paying online, that percentage of "mark up" for the convenience if paying online is ridiculous, It is a UK charge, set by the UK government to pay for a UK service so it be in sterling. Or are we leaving the EU and becoming the 53rd state?

[Tony M]

I've just dropped in on this thread and am appalled by the rip off that it seems to be. My wife will be applying for a settlement visa in a couple of months and I of course will be paying online, that percentage of "mark up" for the convenience if paying online is ridiculous, It is a UK charge, set by the UK government to pay for a UK service so it be in sterling. Or are we leaving the EU and becoming the 53rd state?

Perhaps you should also complain, in advance, about what you understand will be a higher cost than the quoted visa fee ? Feel free to quote my stated costs in the OP ( although that is for a visit visa).

[ahqaf]

i am also interested to know details about this

[GarryUK]

Have just sent an email to the address shown in the first couple of posts and to the email address I've found below, and I've posted something on Facebook, but I would prefer somewhere more public and directly targeted to air my disgust at this change. I imagine as I don't have a reference number relating to a current application that my emails will be ignored.

I'm currently looking for an email address to use to send my complaint directly to Mark Harper MP, Minister of State for Immigration.

Contacting the FCO or UKBA doesn't seem to be easy, best I have found is this:

If you have a complaint about how your visa application has been handled, or the conduct of UK Visas and Immigration staff:

• if you are in Thailand email UK Visas and Immigration in Thailand at [email protected]

[7by7]

You can do as I did and contact your own MP; his/her contact details can be found on his/her website.

From Mark Harper's website.

Queries relating to my role as Minister for Immigration

If you are visiting this site with a query relating to my brief as Minister for Immigration, please note that Parliamentary protocol means that MPs can only directly assist their own constituents.

If you have any issues or queries regarding immigration, please raise these with your local MP. You can find out who your local MP is by visiting this website.

Alternatively you can contact the Home Office at: Email: [email protected]

IMHO, the more people that raise this with their MP, the better.

Complaining to the embassy or UKV&I will, I feel, just produce a standard response along the lines of "We doing it that way because we're doing it that way!"

Edited January 12, 2014 by 7by7

[7by7]

My MP was recently extremely helpful in obtaining confirmation that an expired A1 test certificate was acceptable for FLR applications; so I have today emailed him to ask if he can find out why applicants are being charged in USD for a service provided by the UK government with a fee set in Sterling by the UK Parliament.

I'll post his reply when received.

Not so helpful this time.

First reply was that Parliamentary protocol prevented him from answering and the person concerned should contact his own MP.

I then asked him if he could answer the general question about the UK government charging for it's services in USD and he simply replied that he had said all he was going to say on the matter.

He's a Tory, btw.

[Tony M]

The official response, from an unnamed person at the Embassy in Bangkok, says :

Thank you for your email dated 10 January.

UK Visas and Immigration is embarking on a programme of modernisation, which includes moving to an online application process where almost all customers around the world will apply and pay for their visas online. UKVI has already successfully launched online payment for visas to over 90 countries.

Customers in Thailand already apply for their visa online. From 16 December 2013, Thai customers (and all those applying in Thailand) have also been required to pay for their visa application online, using either a MasterCard or Visa credit, debit or pre-payment card. Additional online methods of payment are expected to become available over time, including other payment cards and e-wallets. Online payment is mandatory for all customers and other methods of payment, including payment at the visa application centre, are no longer accepted.

Online payment allows a more streamlined application process and is consistent with a wider global trend to online transactions and payments; it helps to cut costs in the management of the visas operation which in turns helps to keep visa fees down, and it is also a safer system for both customers and staff as it reduces the risk associated with handling large amounts of cash during the visa application process.

Initially in Thailand, it is only possible for customers to pay for their visa in US dollars ($US), although we expect further currency options to be made available at a later date. Some applicants may incur currency conversion charges levied by their card issuers, in addition to the visa fee, if they do not have a payment card intended primarily for use in the designated currency. UKVI will not refund currency conversion fees or processing charges levied by card issuers.

To clarify this for our customers, in this region we no longer quote prices for UK visas in pounds sterling (GBP) – visa application fees are now quoted in US dollars on the Thailand website, and an application for a UK short-term visit visa currently costs $136. The cost of a visa in GBP will vary depending on the exchange rate at the time of purchase. The current consular exchange rate is £1 = $1.70 as of 13 January. The previous consular exchange rate was £1 = $1.65.

The Home Office has considered all options carefully and chosen the best approach on behalf of our customers. The currency options are not driven by the UK Government but by global financial services markets, banking regulations and operational requirements within our global visa services network and our online payment service providers. Alternative currency measures may involve high-cost local arrangements with the banks and online payment providers in each country, which when added to the visa application fee would make the process substantially more expensive for all applicants. This would far outweigh the currency conversion fees suffered by applicants who do not own a payment card intended primarily for use in the required currency.

I hope this has clarified the position for you.

[Waterloo]

The official response, from an unnamed person at the Embassy in Bangkok, says :

Thank you for your email dated 10 January.

UK Visas and Immigration is embarking on a programme of modernisation, which includes moving to an online application process where almost all customers around the world will apply and pay for their visas online. UKVI has already successfully launched online payment for visas to over 90 countries.

Customers in Thailand already apply for their visa online. From 16 December 2013, Thai customers (and all those applying in Thailand) have also been required to pay for their visa application online, using either a MasterCard or Visa credit, debit or pre-payment card. Additional online methods of payment are expected to become available over time, including other payment cards and e-wallets. Online payment is mandatory for all customers and other methods of payment, including payment at the visa application centre, are no longer accepted.

Online payment allows a more streamlined application process and is consistent with a wider global trend to online transactions and payments; it helps to cut costs in the management of the visas operation which in turns helps to keep visa fees down, and it is also a safer system for both customers and staff as it reduces the risk associated with handling large amounts of cash during the visa application process.

Initially in Thailand, it is only possible for customers to pay for their visa in US dollars ($US), although we expect further currency options to be made available at a later date. Some applicants may incur currency conversion charges levied by their card issuers, in addition to the visa fee, if they do not have a payment card intended primarily for use in the designated currency. UKVI will not refund currency conversion fees or processing charges levied by card issuers.

To clarify this for our customers, in this region we no longer quote prices for UK visas in pounds sterling (GBP) – visa application fees are now quoted in US dollars on the Thailand website, and an application for a UK short-term visit visa currently costs $136. The cost of a visa in GBP will vary depending on the exchange rate at the time of purchase. The current consular exchange rate is £1 = $1.70 as of 13 January. The previous consular exchange rate was £1 = $1.65.

The Home Office has considered all options carefully and chosen the best approach on behalf of our customers. The currency options are not driven by the UK Government but by global financial services markets, banking regulations and operational requirements within our global visa services network and our online payment service providers. Alternative currency measures may involve high-cost local arrangements with the banks and online payment providers in each country, which when added to the visa application fee would make the process substantially more expensive for all applicants. This would far outweigh the currency conversion fees suffered by applicants who do not own a payment card intended primarily for use in the required currency.

I hope this has clarified the position for you.

Thanks Tony most enlightning

[durhamboy]

They are still using a high exchange rate in their favour - $1.70 is about 4% higher than the real rate at the moment.I'd bet my bottom dollar (pun intended!) they are making a very nice annual profit on exchange.

I may be missing something but I still don't really get it. I buy many things on line from worldwide companies and the price is in sterling and I pay in sterling. This is the British Embassy selling British visas so surely everything should be in sterling. Do you thing they would charge in euros if the dollar ceased to exist?

[Tony M]

They are still using a high exchange rate in their favour - $1.70 is about 4% higher than the real rate at the moment.I'd bet my bottom dollar (pun intended!) they are making a very nice annual profit on exchange.

I may be missing something but I still don't really get it. I buy many things on line from worldwide companies and the price is in sterling and I pay in sterling. This is the British Embassy selling British visas so surely everything should be in sterling. Do you thing they would charge in euros if the dollar ceased to exist?

You are right, I think, and the response doesn't exactly explain anything at all. All that bumph about global financial markets, etc, and having chosen the best approach for their customers. What nonsense. You are, of course, also right that there is no reason why the fees can't be shown in GBP, and the fees taken in GBP, as it is with other online purchases.

[Basil B]

My MP was recently extremely helpful in obtaining confirmation that an expired A1 test certificate was acceptable for FLR applications; so I have today emailed him to ask if he can find out why applicants are being charged in USD for a service provided by the UK government with a fee set in Sterling by the UK Parliament.

I'll post his reply when received.

That's good, 7x7. I have asked the Embassy, but I'm not holding my breath on any quick response.

Probable because they are told to do so by Whitehall mandarins, not why...

Edited January 16, 2014 by Basil B

[theoldgit]

The official response, from an unnamed person at the Embassy in Bangkok, says:

Thank you for your email dated 10 January.

bla bla bla, stock answer, bla bla bla

I hope this has clarified the position for you

As you are aware Tony I received the same stock drafted response today.

[GarryUK]

The official response, from an unnamed person at the Embassy in Bangkok, says:

Thank you for your email dated 10 January.

bla bla bla, stock answer, bla bla bla

I hope this has clarified the position for you

As you are aware Tony I received the same stock drafted response today.

Me too. Was going to post it but TonyM is much more on the ball and got in first.

[theoldgit]

Inaccurate, misleading and unwarranted post removed.

I have also removed a very measured response to which I apologise to it's author.

[durhamboy]

Personally I think they don't want to use sterling because they want to keep the foreign exchange gains they are making. The US Dollar a reserve currency so I would think that they are quite happy to remit dollars back to London which they have got through using a high exchange rate.

[Tony M]

I'm not sure how this works globally. I see that the website for visa applications in India says that all applications are now online, but the website quotes the fees in Rupees, not US Dollars. I wonder if the fees are taken locally in Rupees, or in UK in US Dollars ?

[TCA]

The official response, from an unnamed person at the Embassy in Bangkok, says :

Initially in Thailand, it is only possible for customers to pay for their visa in US dollars ($US), although we expect further currency options to be made available at a later date.

The Home Office has considered all options carefully and chosen the best approach on behalf of our customers. The currency options are not driven by the UK Government but by global financial services markets, banking regulations and operational requirements within our global visa services network and our online payment service providers. Alternative currency measures may involve high-cost local arrangements with the banks and online payment providers in each country, which when added to the visa application fee would make the process substantially more expensive for all applicants. This would far outweigh the currency conversion fees suffered by applicants who do not own a payment card intended primarily for use in the required currency.

Sounds pretty much a crock of sh*t to me.

"Currency options are driven by global financial services markets and banking regulations" - don't make me laugh. They are using WorldPay for online payment processing and they offer multi-currency accounts. Not that we need multi-currency. Sterling would do just fine. It's purely a matter of choice. And I'd like to know what banking regulation states that a UK business or government department or whatever, cannot charge fees in its local currency.

"Alternative currency measures may involve high-cost local arrangements with the banks and online payment providers in each country" - they don't need to use different online payment providers in each country - they could use one website and one payment processing company. WorldPay are already processing payments regardless of where they originate globally, albeit in dollars, and paying it to UKBA in the UK, in dollars. I don't see why they'd use another payment processing company for visa payments from people applying in a different country. But that's by the by, because it could just as easily be taken in sterling anyway, regardless of how messed up their collection procedures are.

Likewise there is no local arrangement required with banks in each country, unless they're trying to say that WorldPay has difficulty collecting sterling from some countries, so it has to be dollars. Just don't believe that either. Every other business seems to manage just fine. If, as Tony M raises the possibility of, visas issued to Indians are charged in rupees, then you've got to ask why the double-standards? Are they suggesting Indian banks cannot pay over sterling? Sorry, not buying that either.

"......which when added to the visa application fee would make the process substantially more expensive for all applicants". - so the costs of them collecting say, Thai baht, and presumably converting that to sterling in the UK, would need to be passed on to customers, but they are happy to keep dollars without presumably converting to sterling, so there are no costs to pass on. Except that customers now face the costs of paying in dollars, which pretty much means paying more anyway.

"This would far outweigh the currency conversion fees suffered by applicants who do not own a payment card intended primarily for use in the required currency." - why therefore shouldn't applicants be paying in the currency of the country issuing the visas? Why is the required currency US Dollars? There's no acceptable answer in that response.

As for the "best approach on behalf of our customers", well that's only true if the majority of its customers pay with US dollar debit and credit cards. Maybe they do. Either that, or UKBA simply just want dollars.

Edited January 17, 2014 by TCA

[Tony M]

I wasn't happy with the Embassy's response, so I asked a few more questions ( loosely based on TCA's observations above). I now have this from the Bangkok Embassy :

Thank you for your emails dated 16 and 20 January.

We have sought further advice from the Performance and Finance Directorate in London regarding your enquiry, and I include their responses below.

Why can’t I pay my local currency?

In order to minimise banking costs customers are only be able to pay in a limited number of approved currencies. Permitting payment in currencies outside of these approved currencies would substantially increase overall costs (e.g. higher banking costs) which would have to be met by increasing fees for all visa customers.

Why can’t I pay in GBP?

It is currently only possible to pay in one designated currency from the approved list of currencies, due to current IT constraints. However it is intended that at some point in the future applicants will be able to select a currency of their choice from the approved list, including GBP, allowing customers to weigh up the advantages and disadvantages of each currency in relation to the methods of payment available to them. We cannot offer a timescale on this development at present.

Why should I be expected to pay the additional charges for paying in another mandated currency, this does not seem fair?

Customers who use payment cards or other payment methods not intended primarily for use in the currency of payment are likely to be subject to currency conversion charges as detailed in their agreement with their card issuer. However, the actual transaction charges are levied on UKVI, as the merchant, not the cardholder and UKVI has already absorbed these costs into the basic visa fee price. Permitting payment in currencies outside of the approved currencies would substantially increase overall costs (e.g. higher banking costs) which would have to be met by increasing fees for all visa customers.

I hope this answers your query.

Yours sincerely,

Correspondence Unit

Burma, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Thailand, Vietnam

UK Visas and Immigration, Home Office.

British Embassy, 14 Wireless Road, Bangkok, 10330, Thailand

Web: www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk

[durhamboy]

I think the answer to "Why can't I pay in GBP?" is a bit of a joke. They cite "current I.T. constraints" as the reason that they can only accept dollars. You would have thought that as all their financial records are almost certainly in sterling that if they could only accept one currency then that would be GBP not USD!

Also, they are not prepared to give any indication as to when the I.T. system will support multi-currencies. Therefore, in my opinion, they want to keep the nice exchange gains they are making (as I referred to above) for as long as possible.

Once again, UKVI are treating a captive market with contempt. If they were in the "the real world" and had to compete for business like most organisations do then this "problem" would have been sorted from the outset.

[TCA]

As durhamboy said, "current IT constraints" is laughable. As I mentioned previously, WorldPay can collect money in any currency that UKVI want, so someone has actively chosen dollars. Nobody is asking for payment to be available for each and every currency, only the currency of the UK. Still no reason given as to why dollars was selected in the first place as "approved currency", "designated currency" and "currency of payment".

"Permitting payment in currencies outside of the approved currencies would substantially increase overall costs (e.g. higher banking costs) which would have to be met by increasing fees for all visa customers."

So they're saying that their banking costs go up if they collect sterling instead of dollars? That's entirely unbelievable unless they have a mandate to hold dollars and would have to exchange any sterling they collect. Incidentally, sterling has increasingly strengthened against the dollar since the summer.

So two basic questions:

1) Why was GBP not chosen as the approved currency?

2) Why would UKVI banking costs increase by collecting GBP instead of USD?

Edited January 25, 2014 by TCA

[GarryUK]

Still not happy with the answer if you can call it that. Where's the honesty about why they changed the system and what flaws they failed to spot before implementing a new system. I payed the visit visa fee on the old system and I doubt very much they'd have processed her visa if they hadn't received the money, so if it wasn't broke.....

And as for "UKVI has already absorbed these (transaction) costs", then why is it still costing us more than it did on the old system? Currency conversion charges levied by the card issuer my a.r.s.e!

Have just converted the $1447 settlement visa fee into GBP via Google and it's telling me it's £876.65 right now (up from £851.00 when the fee was being quoted in Sterling). This will of course also incur the currency conversion fee charged by the card issuer on top of that increase.

Edited January 26, 2014 by GarryUK

[NanLaew]

I'm not sure how this works globally. I see that the website for visa applications in India says that all applications are now online, but the website quotes the fees in Rupees, not US Dollars. I wonder if the fees are taken locally in Rupees, or in UK in US Dollars ?

Very good point indeed.

The official tagline would lead us to believe that the £ is not on a list of 'currently approved' foreign currencies. But somehow the mighty Indian rupee already is???!!!

Being unable to pay a fee to a UK government entity in the currency that that has been set by the same UK government entity is laughable. The premise that current IT is somehow challenged and unable to handle £ is even more pathetic. Every time I present a £ denominated credit card at a non-UK POS, the option to be charged in £ or the host currency is presented. That functionality is available at MILLIONS of POS outlets around the world. To suggest that Worldpay is not sophisticated enough to offer this simple option is an insult to our intelligence.

Worldpay was built by RBS and we all know how much the UK taxpayer is still being raped for the excesses of Godwin and his like when they were destroying that venerable British banking institution. It would seem to me that the old school tie came in handy when the UKVI decided to farm out their visa fee collection services and they gave it "to someone at Fred's old company."