Wife been made bankrupt in Thailand

[beachproperty]

I know I'm just repeating what a lot of posters already said......BUT it is possible that your wife IS scamming you (yes I know you've been together for 12 years and good on you).

Just maybe ...she never really got a divorce (why does her former husband have her number? and why would he even care if "she is bankrupt"?)...Personally I think that he is trying to scare her into sending money to Thailand (actually ...having YOU send money). DON'T send money .....

She is NOT going to have a problem if she ever returns to Thailand (getting in or out)....just ignore the whole thing ...its already been sorted ...the bank got the property ...end of story.

Good luck anyway!

[mythailand1]

With due respect and extreme sorry, Very common and rusted story of some females saying they are bankrupt or defaulters to the bank or some individual. It makes no sense that you pay the loans of your EXs and if not then you have a chance of being arrested or chance if being deported from The airport or refusal to an entry in the country.

[louse1953]

this sounds like a clear case of thai finds a farang,thai divorces thai husband,runs off with the farang but lets her ex.stay in the home plus her sister-in-law,moves to the uk.and takes no responsibility for any debt she's left in thailand.farang doesnt know about all this untill the ex wants her to pay off the mortgage if there is one,or he wants to borrow her atm card.as she has left one of her kids in thailand this does sound like dont worry i will provide i have farang husband.but she now finds out farang has no money to help her,so now she is off to thailand by plane i supose not cheap,will she come back that is the question the op.needs to be alert and not get tango'd.good luck.

Thai wives can come up with fantastically complicated stories,i have heard many and most involve land.My ex father in law died and ex wife went back to sort it,asked me to send huge amount for funeral.Smelly a rat,i said i would pay when i got there.On arrival,praise the lord,he hadn't died after all,only sick.Needless to say,marriage was all downhill after that,leading to divorce,that's when i praised the lord.

Would be a good thread one day,best "stories i have heard,personlly.I have a few.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Alll are liable for the whole amount.

Note to op

Just to point out, as the debt was accumulated after you marriage, you are also 100% liable too.

The repayments were missed after your marriage, so you cant own anything in thailand either.

That's an interesting issue... But I'm not sure your conclusion is correct.

The delinquency on the loan may have occurred after the OP's marriage to the Thai lady.

But the Thai lady originated/incurred the loan obligation prior to her marriage to the OP.

It's always been my understanding that debts incurred prior to marriage in Thailand remain separate (non community property) obligations.

The debt was incurred when the loan was taken out... Not later whenever the wife's in-law relations stopped paying on the loan. In that context, AFAIK, the OP husband would have no direct financial liability here.

Edited January 11, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Farma]

The chapter on bankruptcy in the Thailand Business and Legal guide from the pinned topics in the Jobs, Economy, Banking, Business, Investments sub forum is worth reading.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/48111-useful-web-site/

http://www.bia.co.th/029.html

[Scully]

Get rid of the middleman ex, ring the banks the loans are from. They want their money and deals can be struck.At least it stops the bs.

[louse1953]

Banks are one method of borrowing money,what about when loan sharks are involved.My wife had fully paid land and title but MIL had borrowed on it,years before,so had to pay that as well.Checked the scam angle.The upshot is that all MIL land is now in wife's name so the b.... can't pull that one again.MIL never said anything for 10 years until debt collector come a calling.

[realenglish1]

To be clear you should talk to a lawyer but I can tell you that this is civil and not criminal so your wife will have no problem going to Thailand and leaving Thailand

Police do not get involved in Civil matters

I had a problem with my ex Thai wife I had co signed on a couple of credit cars . Then divorced here and about 5 years later I went to the bank I had co signed with and wanted to open a bank account

I had no problem with the bank and have since left and come back to Thailand several times. The bank did ask me about the credit cars and I told them I was divorced and did not know about them That my ex was responsible for the cards and that was the end of it with the bank

So it is prudent to talk to a lawyer but I can tell you again Its civil not criminal So although your wife did not do it the proper way other than bankruptcy she has no problems

[Ulic]

Posting on TV may be the first step so you can get some idea of where you stand but the second

and more important is to get advice from a good reputable Thai lawyer.

[wedge1]

Thanks for all your replies. To clarify the situation the property has apparently already been sold. My wife didnt know about this until yesterday, and the shortfall is 800,000thb. We have no intention in the near future of living or buying a business, property or any other assets in thailand so that part of the bankruptcy isnt a problem. My wife is a british citizen and has a good career here in the uk. My original post was to really ask whether she can move freely in and out of thailand.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[wedge1]

Can anybody recommend a good thai lawyer then?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Guitar God]

If the loan was being paid for 10 of the 12 years then it seems likely that the house is worth more than ฿800k. If the bank forecloses on it and sells it, the proceeds should cover the balance and your wife owes nothing. A black mark on her credit report seems to be the worst case outcome.

[rgs2001uk]

Can anybody recommend a good thai lawyer then? Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

This is the only firm to do business with.

Tilleke & Gibbins.

[wedge1]

The shortfall was 800,000 thb. The house was in a poor state and sold for 1.2m thb. All the fees, extra intrest made the shortfall add up to this amount.

My wifes ex-husband had told her that if he goes to work the bank will automatically take 30% of his salary- not sure if thats true though or just usual thai bs. Getting back to the original point though, i just want to be sure my wife can move freely in and out of thailand on her british passport? I' ve even thought about going to the thai embassy and applying for a three month visa for her. Surely if theres going to be a problem at immigration at least we will know about it. I presume the thai embassy would just refuse her visa.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[FiftyTwo]

No expert on Thai law.....but I believe "bankrupt" is the wrong word.

The property was "foreclosed"...ie. the real estate was seized by the lender according to law. Depending on if Thailand has a anti-defiencency law (ie if lender forecloses that is their only recourse! They get the land and that's it. Can't sue for the loan, the difference, nothing ...just get the property for which they can sell and take a loss or profit).

If no anti-defiencency law.....they could possibly get a judgement for the difference between the loan and what the property sells for (if and when property sells...not easy selling property in Thailand)....and NOT a judgement for the WHOLE loan

Bottom line ....a lot of bunk being advised above....

Talk to a Thai lawyer (Not TV).....Yeah it might cost you a little but knowing the TRUE situation which will give you some peace one way or the other is worth it.

Does this apply to auto loans as well? i.e. if finance company reposesses car can they still go after the borrower for the difference between subsequent sale price of reposessed car and outstanding loan or as per your property example above. do they just get the car and that is it - no further recourse?

As I said ....I am no expert on Thai law...

Usually though ...the law with respect to Real Property (land) and personal property (car for example)...are different and same rules do not apply.

Simple answer though....I don't know...but I don't believe the same rules apply to cars

My posts were based on a car loan default, the car was never repossessed, it disappeared. Chase for 10 years, can't own anything in those years.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The chapter on bankruptcy in the Thailand Business and Legal guide from the pinned topics in the Jobs, Economy, Banking, Business, Investments sub forum is worth reading.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/48111-useful-web-site/

http://www.bia.co.th/029.html

That's a great resource on Thai law... Thanks very much for posting it.

I just read thru the entire sections on Family Law and Wills and Probate... very useful and informative!

[FiftyTwo]

The shortfall was 800,000 thb. The house was in a poor state and sold for 1.2m thb. All the fees, extra intrest made the shortfall add up to this amount. My wifes ex-husband had told her that if he goes to work the bank will automatically take 30% of his salary- not sure if thats true though or just usual thai bs. Getting back to the original point though, i just want to be sure my wife can move freely in and out of thailand on her british passport? I' ve even thought about going to the thai embassy and applying for a three month visa for her. Surely if theres going to be a problem at immigration at least we will know about it. I presume the thai embassy would just refuse her visa. Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Problem is,

It's your loan too and you also are liable for the 800k.

Yep, 30% taken from his salary seems about right.

[wym]

i just want to be sure my wife can move freely in and out of thailand on her british passport? I' ve even thought about going to the thai embassy and applying for a three month visa for her. Surely if theres going to be a problem at immigration at least we will know about it. I presume the thai embassy would just refuse her visa.

No coordination between foreign embassies and local immigration/police unless major crime. A Thai citizen must use their Thai passport in or out of Thailand.

Is there any indication a stop order's been issued?

Is SHE actually worried?

Are you being asked to send 800K over?

[meatboy]

The shortfall was 800,000 thb. The house was in a poor state and sold for 1.2m thb. All the fees, extra intrest made the shortfall add up to this amount. My wifes ex-husband had told her that if he goes to work the bank will automatically take 30% of his salary- not sure if thats true though or just usual thai bs. Getting back to the original point though, i just want to be sure my wife can move freely in and out of thailand on her british passport? I' ve even thought about going to the thai embassy and applying for a three month visa for her. Surely if theres going to be a problem at immigration at least we will know about it. I presume the thai embassy would just refuse her visa. Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

if you can find out when the court order was taken out and who put it through,you can have a look at future proceedings but i dont know if you can go back try here,www.led.com.th

hasnt she got someone she can contact that lives close by her old house,if she thinks she could have a problem why does she need to come to thailand.i will try and find out what her brother is telling her is true i have a friend who is a thai lawyer.

doesnt she understand that you are worrying about her or doesnt she care,in 30yrs i have heard and seen not all but enough to warn you the alarm bells are starting to ring.never mind about how long you have been married i know of an on going situation where the couple have been together for over 14yrs.and it could end belly up,so please tread carefull.

[Spoonman]

The shortfall was 800,000 thb. The house was in a poor state and sold for 1.2m thb. All the fees, extra intrest made the shortfall add up to this amount. My wifes ex-husband had told her that if he goes to work the bank will automatically take 30% of his salary- not sure if thats true though or just usual thai bs. Getting back to the original point though, i just want to be sure my wife can move freely in and out of thailand on her british passport? I' ve even thought about going to the thai embassy and applying for a three month visa for her. Surely if theres going to be a problem at immigration at least we will know about it. I presume the thai embassy would just refuse her visa. Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

if you can find out when the court order was taken out and who put it through,you can have a look at future proceedings but i dont know if you can go back try here,www.led.com.th

hasnt she got someone she can contact that lives close by her old house,if she thinks she could have a problem why does she need to come to thailand.i will try and find out what her brother is telling her is true i have a friend who is a thai lawyer.

doesnt she understand that you are worrying about her or doesnt she care,in 30yrs i have heard and seen not all but enough to warn you the alarm bells are starting to ring.never mind about how long you have been married i know of an on going situation where the couple have been together for over 14yrs.and it could end belly up,so please tread carefull.

If the OP was on a long con Iam sure the figure would be much greater than 800k.

[wedge1]

^{To reply to some questions. Both of us intend to travel to Thailand in April to visit my wifes family. My wife is worried about the situation and has said she won't go to Thailand unless she can be sure she will be able have no problems at immigration. We have never been asked by her ex-husband for any money at any time. My wife only sends a very small amount monthly to her mother. My wife does have a divorce certificate, we needed this to get her marriage visa for when she first entered the u.k. My wife hates her ex-husband as he had an affair while they were married, however she does have to keep in touch with him so that she can see her son when we visit Thailand.}

Edited January 11, 2014 by wedge1

[Travelman868]

Thanks for your reply. My wife said there were three names on the loan and she thinks ( not sute) nobody guaranteed it. She originally married at a bangkok registery office. Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Of course it could be that someone thinks your stupid and will sent the 800,000 baht. The other thought

is that 2,400,000 is a lot to owe on a Thai house

[donniereadit]

Thanks for all your replies. To clarify the situation the property has apparently already been sold. My wife didnt know about this until yesterday, and the shortfall is 800,000thb. We have no intention in the near future of living or buying a business, property or any other assets in thailand so that part of the bankruptcy isnt a problem. My wife is a british citizen and has a good career here in the uk. My original post was to really ask whether she can move freely in and out of thailand. Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I don't believe an arrest warrant is issued for foreclosure / loan type situations in most countries. Almost certainly you would have to be served first and a chance to show up in court. I'm not 100% though since from the USA not familiar with Thai judicial system.

She has a UK passport that was issued long after the problems began. They go by passport number, not by name going through immigration. Even a wanted fugutive would pass by.

If you want to be anal and super safe just make sure any forms she fills out that nothing has her old address, maiden name, address of kids, husbands name or anything like that on it. Sometimes an error is made on the DOB and it will be off by a day.

800k is enough to hide and be comfortable with the decision. Getting involved with a lawyer is an idiotic move if you don't have the money to settle the bill, or are not willing to pay at least half of it. It would make things more complicated and worrisome then they already are, especially in this country with uneducated people, bribes etc. I would just ignore the whole issue.

Edited January 11, 2014 by donniereadit

[oogster8]

op said girl is doing well in uk. why dont she take responsibility and pay off the bank. SHE DOES OWE IT>

[simple1]

i just want to be sure my wife can move freely in and out of thailand on her british passport? I' ve even thought about going to the thai embassy and applying for a three month visa for her. Surely if theres going to be a problem at immigration at least we will know about it. I presume the thai embassy would just refuse her visa.

A Thai citizen must use their Thai passport in or out of Thailand.

Info incorrect, a Thai dual citizen can enter & depart Thailand on their foreign passport; must depart of the same passport they entered Thailand. Wife and stepson have done so many times

[Douggie Style]

sorry don't have time to read the whole thread..this may have been mentioned

bankruptcy generally requires a high standard as to service and the evidences..

you may be able to apply for a set aside..time limits likely apply..ask a local lawyer or the relevant court

[wolf5370]

Thanks for all your replies. To clarify the situation the property has apparently already been sold. My wife didnt know about this until yesterday, and the shortfall is 800,000thb. We have no intention in the near future of living or buying a business, property or any other assets in thailand so that part of the bankruptcy isnt a problem. My wife is a british citizen and has a good career here in the uk. My original post was to really ask whether she can move freely in and out of thailand. Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I don't believe an arrest warrant is issued for foreclosure / loan type situations in most countries. Almost certainly you would have to be served first and a chance to show up in court. I'm not 100% though since from the USA not familiar with Thai judicial system.

She has a UK passport that was issued long after the problems began. They go by passport number, not by name going through immigration. Even a wanted fugutive would pass by.

If you want to be anal and super safe just make sure any forms she fills out that nothing has her old address, maiden name, address of kids, husbands name or anything like that on it. Sometimes an error is made on the DOB and it will be off by a day.

800k is enough to hide and be comfortable with the decision. Getting involved with a lawyer is an idiotic move if you don't have the money to settle the bill, or are not willing to pay at least half of it. It would make things more complicated and worrisome then they already are, especially in this country with uneducated people, bribes etc. I would just ignore the whole issue.

My instinct is to agree with this.

If the house sold for 1.2m and still has a 800k shortfall - and assuming they were kicked out (repossessed) under a year of not paying (usually 3 months is all you get), then how much was the original mortgage on the house for? If we are talking 15 years ago, then house prices were a lot less than they are now. I suspect the 800k includes letters sent (unanswered) and other fees and costs, but even so, it is a lot of money for a house that long ago. Where is this property (guess BKK as they were wed there) - and how much was the original purchase price? How long was the mortgage paid before defaulting? How long ago was the purchase actually made? (I guessed at 15 years assuming they were married for long enough to have a couple of kids and move out of mum's).

I really see no immigration problems here at all - the debt owner (the bank) is not even going to know you are both in country, let alone find someway of stopping you returning home. If they forced bankruptcy, chances are they have recovered their real costs with the sale and insurance (underwriters claim) - remember a lot of the costs they pass on are not real monetary costs to them as they have the staff and lawyers already employed.

I would simply take note of the date of bankruptcy, put a Google alert for 10 years on - and behave normally. If there are obligations to her, being a Thai citizen, she can always give that up in favour of the British citizenship she also holds (get you kids their Thai birth certs first) - if you have no intentions of returning full term, then no problem.

[wolf5370]

op said girl is doing well in uk. why dont she take responsibility and pay off the bank. SHE DOES OWE IT>

I think you missed the point of the thread all together. She was unaware of the debt being unpaid - which has since been through the courts. As a signatory for the mortgage, she along with the others, has been made bankrupt in Thailand. This is not about the payment - paying it off will not resolve the insolvency - it is about the impact of that in-abstentia bankruptcy ruling during the 10 years she will have to endure it.

[FiftyTwo]

op said girl is doing well in uk. why dont she take responsibility and pay off the bank. SHE DOES OWE IT>

I think you missed the point of the thread all together. She was unaware of the debt being unpaid - which has since been through the courts. As a signatory for the mortgage, she along with the others, has been made bankrupt in Thailand. This is not about the payment - paying it off will not resolve the insolvency - it is about the impact of that in-abstentia bankruptcy ruling during the 10 years she will have to endure it.

Banks didn't pay their shareholders when they all went bust a few years back.

Why should anyone pay the banks back?

[wedge1]

^{Here is what I am thinking, as my wife has received no correspondence whatsoever from the court how could she know there was a problem. My wife thinks one of the problems could be that she failed to attend the}

^{court hearing, and possibly face arrest for failing to attend, but how could she if she didn't know anything about it? Does anybody know if court summons are sent out by recorded delivery or sent by a police officer in Thailand?}