Shutdown will be a flop, says Thaksin aide

[NCFC]

I wonder whether Thaksin's aide remembers, which side Thailand was on, in the second world-war ?

Hint ... Hitler was an ally, not an enemy.

Absolutely. Hitler's Asian joint venture partner had no problem maintaining the occupation of Thailand on behalf of the axis. It took US intervention in the war and several years to dislodge them. Nothing from the pliant Thais.

Better for illiterate Thaksin flunkies to keep quiet about the war. This is a job for a real expert in Southeast Asian history - Mr Robert Amsterdam.

so similar to France after 1940 then? What point are you trying to make ?

[Scott]

And a reply to a deleted post has been removed. You can stop with the splitting of hairs over % of votes. It's off-topic.

Inflammatory post removed as well.

[rubl]

A cornered snake is a dangerous thing. With the Big Shutdown now a complete failure I'm going to make a prediction. Some time in the next seven days Suthep and his increasingly desperate backers will stage a violent event to try to goad the army into doing what they want. Most likely a gun or bomb attack on the yellow shirt protesters, or another act of airport terrorism.

Sadly, I think you are about right and more likely next 2 - 3 days.

He will be forced into some sort of desperate action that will have catastrophic consequences.

It's either that or completely lose his "face".

It's all a sad farce until the violence starts in earnest.

Then it will be a sad, avoidable disaster caused by one mans ego, hubris and ambition........

It's a tragedy that Thailand has so called politicians like him and his ilk.

for a moment I thought you were talking about Thaksin, but he's not part of the topic I think.

[Gweiloman]

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect Thailand1389767350.466048.jpg Loud music but few people at Asoke junction Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Yes, the music's great. Lots of cute singers on stage as well. Makes a change from the daily cacophony of blaring horns and loud motorbikes and poorly maintained buses belching out diesel fumes.

[NCFC]

Define "Step Down" in terms of the Thai constitution. It would be wholly illegal for any PM, and a breach of her oath of office, to simply walk away and hand the country over to a mysterious junta of 'good people', not one of whom has yet put their name on public record.

Step down, as in resign.

I don't believe it would be illegal for the PM to resign. Politicians, even in Thailand, do it all the time.

Of course, people can quote and twist a sentence in the constitution to make it sound like it would be impossible, but they would just be using that as an excuse.

.

Like Suthep and his backers, you just haven't thought this through, have you? Let's say Yingluck and the cabinet get on a plane to Dubai tonight, never to return. Who would be running Thailand tomorrow? No fancy sentence twisting there, just a straight question.

If Yingluck was to resign, a deputy PM would step up in her place. The protesters aren't asking the whole cabinet to get out. Just the Shinawatras.

if i recall correctly the constitution prioritises firstly the PM then the cabinet and finally the Permanent Secretary to the cabinet if anyone of them is indisposed.

[LevelHead]

If Yingluck was to resign, a deputy PM would step up in her place. The protesters aren't asking the whole cabinet to get out. Just the Shinawatras.

Have you read the Thai Constitution ?

She cannot resign, the Constitution does not allow her to resign from caretaker PM post.

In the same way, the Constitution does not allow for elections to be delayed (unless in the event of a National Emergency like war, earthquake etc..).

Please tell me where in the constitution it stops MPs or PMs from resigning? Are you suggesting a Thai MP has never resigned?

So it would suggest you have not read the Thai Constitution put into place after the coup and amended by the Democrat Party. (Strange that the Democrats can change it isn't it)

Whilst in normal parliamentary time a PM or an MP can resign, this is not allowed during the period prior to an election when there is a caretaker PM and caretaker government.

The Thai Constitution prohibits the resignation of the caretaker PM.

Caretaker PM resignation is a breach of Constitution.

Election delay (in the event of no National Emergency) is a breach of Constitution.

Which is why those who oppose the government keep asking for the PM to resign or the election to be delayed, they know full well this breaks the Constitution and would lead to the caretaker PM and caretaker government being booted out and an appointed PM put in place.

They get away with saying this as a lot of people, like you, fail to appreciate that a "caretaker PM" cannot resign prior to an election and an election cannot be delayed unless there is a national emergency.

That is my understanding of reading it and this has been stated by numerous people, I suggest you read the section to do with caretaker PM's and pre-election period.

Edited January 15, 2014 by LevelHead

[gerry1011]

Just been on BTS and crowd sizes are well down at Ratchaprasong and Saladeng junctionsSent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Q

The yellow supporters of these illegal protests may have been naive but they are not stupid. They now see the true color of Suthep and realize the damage they have done to the country.

No wonder they all go back home.

Soon only Suthep's army of yellow thugs will be left and the police perform its duty by arresting them all and punish them harshly, the way it should be

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[GeorgeO]

While the support for Suthep is (naturally) disappearing, the support for the government is still intact. Good news that the violence and criminal aims of the yellows are met with peaceful resistance of the reds and candle lighting. Democracy must win over dictatorship. ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect Thailand1389750608.234814.jpg Sent from my iPhone...

You start off by showing your obvious bias towards the Thaksin family regime, and them finish off with a sentence condemning them...!!

[whybother]

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect Thailand1389767350.466048.jpg Loud music but few people at Asoke junction Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

There aren't many people in front of the stage in the sun, but there are more around to the left under awnings and also under the BTS. Not large numbers though.

[whybother]

So it would suggest you have not read the Thai Constitution put into place after the coup and amended by the Democrat Party. (Strange that the Democrats can change it isn't it)

Whilst in normal parliamentary time a PM or an MP can resign, this is not allowed during the period prior to an election when there is a caretaker PM and caretaker government.

The Thai Constitution prohibits the resignation of the caretaker PM.

Caretaker PM resignation is a breach of Constitution.

Election delay (in the event of no National Emergency) is a breach of Constitution.

Which is why those who oppose the government keep asking for the PM to resign or the election to be delayed, they know full well this breaks the Constitution and would lead to the caretaker PM and caretaker government being booted out and an appointed PM put in place.

They get away with saying this as a lot of people, like you, fail to appreciate that a "caretaker PM" cannot resign prior to an election and an election cannot be delayed unless there is a national emergency.

That is my understanding of reading it and this has been stated by numerous people, I suggest you read the section to do with caretaker PM's and pre-election period.

I have read a lot of the constitution but don't remember any part that says that the care-taker PM can't resign. I'm not saying it isn't there, I would just like to read the wording directly rather than through other people's interpretation.

If you've read the constitution then it won't be too hard to point out the particular clause(s) that stops the care-taker PM from resigning.

[Spalpeen]

So it would suggest you have not read the Thai Constitution put into place after the coup and amended by the Democrat Party. (Strange that the Democrats can change it isn't it)

Whilst in normal parliamentary time a PM or an MP can resign, this is not allowed during the period prior to an election when there is a caretaker PM and caretaker government.

The Thai Constitution prohibits the resignation of the caretaker PM.

Caretaker PM resignation is a breach of Constitution.

Election delay (in the event of no National Emergency) is a breach of Constitution.

Which is why those who oppose the government keep asking for the PM to resign or the election to be delayed, they know full well this breaks the Constitution and would lead to the caretaker PM and caretaker government being booted out and an appointed PM put in place.

They get away with saying this as a lot of people, like you, fail to appreciate that a "caretaker PM" cannot resign prior to an election and an election cannot be delayed unless there is a national emergency.

That is my understanding of reading it and this has been stated by numerous people, I suggest you read the section to do with caretaker PM's and pre-election period.

I have read a lot of the constitution but don't remember any part that says that the care-taker PM can't resign. I'm not saying it isn't there, I would just like to read the wording directly rather than through other people's interpretation.

If you've read the constitution then it won't be too hard to point out the particular clause(s) that stops the care-taker PM from resigning.

.

Article 157 of the Penal Code, according to a recent article in The Nation, although I haven't checked this myself.

[gerry1011]

Define "Step Down" in terms of the Thai constitution. It would be wholly illegal for any PM, and a breach of her oath of office, to simply walk away and hand the country over to a mysterious junta of 'good people', not one of whom has yet put their name on public record.

Step down, as in resign.

I don't believe it would be illegal for the PM to resign. Politicians, even in Thailand, do it all the time.

Of course, people can quote and twist a sentence in the constitution to make it sound like it would be impossible, but they would just be using that as an excuse.

.

Like Suthep and his backers, you just haven't thought this through, have you? Let's say Yingluck and the cabinet get on a plane to Dubai tonight, never to return. Who would be running Thailand tomorrow? No fancy sentence twisting there, just a straight question.

If Yingluck was to resign, a deputy PM would step up in her place. The protesters aren't asking the whole cabinet to get out. Just the Shinawatras.

Ah ah ah

Too funny...

Imagine the anti-Thaksin barking if Chalerm replaces Yingluck (or any other PT minister)...

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[whybother]

<snip>

I have read a lot of the constitution but don't remember any part that says that the care-taker PM can't resign. I'm not saying it isn't there, I would just like to read the wording directly rather than through other people's interpretation.

If you've read the constitution then it won't be too hard to point out the particular clause(s) that stops the care-taker PM from resigning.

.

Article 157 of the Penal Code, according to a recent article in The Nation, although I haven't checked this myself.

So, not actually the constitution then.

Chapter 2 - Malfeasance in Office

Section 157 Whoever, being an official, wrongfully exercises or does not exercise any of his functions to the injury of any person, or dishonestly exercises or omits to exercise any of his functions, shall be punished with imprisonment of one to ten years or fined of two thousand to twenty thousand Baht, or both.

Nothing there about not being able to resign. If someone was to resign, then they wouldn't have any functions to perform.

[Spalpeen]

Article 157 of the Penal Code, according to a recent article in The Nation, although I haven't checked this myself.

So, not actually the constitution then.

Chapter 2 - Malfeasance in Office

Section 157 Whoever, being an official, wrongfully exercises or does not exercise any of his functions to the injury of any person, or dishonestly exercises or omits to exercise any of his functions, shall be punished with imprisonment of one to ten years or fined of two thousand to twenty thousand Baht, or both.

Nothing there about not being able to resign. If someone was to resign, then they wouldn't have any functions to perform.

.

Since you're clearly well informed on the Thai constitution, perhaps you can direct me to the bit that deals with "stepping down".

Resignation clearly implies immediate replacement by a successor, in this case another PTP minister. Sutheps "stepping down", on the other hand, clearly means complete abdication of responsibility, to be replaced by God-knows-what. This would look a lot like a breach of code 157 to me. Still, I'm not an expert. How exactly would a Prime Minister walk away from her job with no idea who or what would be replacing her the next day?

[englishoak]

Traffic is coping well because no one is driving.

Sent from my phone ...

This is true, then again there arnt really many protesters either, spread far to thin and people have lives to get on with like the day job.

The novelty has worn off and hes made far too many normal people uneasy with this no negotiation ever, no power to the people until we sort it with our choice sales pitch.

I cannot see people with daily lives to lead paying day after day to come protest when they just dont have the time and cant afford the bill. weekend maybe if they have nothing better to do but again the novelty has worn off and if they have a 3 hr trip to work during the week or worse forget them coming to help on the weekends.

Plus since the frozen accounts numbers have dropped off too, maybe a coincidence maybe not, stuff and people cost money though. I did hear that some protesters are actively asking for donations now too, seems either there is a cashflow issue or some are trying to make a fast buck no idea which but the source is honest, had been to the first few marches and was a little bit shocked when asked to contribute in Asoke today the asking amount was 1000 baht, maybe that was due to the Merc she drives and seemed a little steep but i got to admit its mainly 1000 baht notes that seem to be thrust at Suthep so maybe thats the standard now.

Time to wrap things up and go home before things get desperate if they havnt already

Sorry to say, wishful thinking. But thanks for your in depth analysis. You really have no idea what this is about and thanks for the comic relief.

Looks even less protesters today, skytrain not overly crowded other reports of donations being asked for and collected.

Suthep isnt about reform and most Thais get that now, they will be more than happy if this starts a wave of change but arnt going to waste their time with Sutheps plan for domination, they are far more sincere than he is and far more decent,perhaps you should pay more attention to widening your perspective.

Its far better they go home now and let another grass root movement grow like respect the vote or white shirts with integrity than start violence which is all that they will have left soon.

Thank you for telling me I have no idea what its all about but I probably interact with a more varied cross section of Thais nationwide than youve had noodle soup,

[rubl]

Since you're clearly well informed on the Thai constitution, perhaps you can direct me to the bit that deals with "stepping down".

Resignation clearly implies immediate replacement by a successor, in this case another PTP minister. Sutheps "stepping down", on the other hand, clearly means complete abdication of responsibility, to be replaced by God-knows-what. This would look a lot like a breach of code 157 to me. Still, I'm not an expert. How exactly would a Prime Minister walk away from her job with no idea who or what would be replacing her the next day?

A link to the full text of the 2007 constitution in English. Note that legally only the Thai original is binding, but the translation should be sufficient to get an idea.

http://www.asianlii.org/th/legis/const/2007/

[rubl]

Sorry to say, wishful thinking. But thanks for your in depth analysis. You really have no idea what this is about and thanks for the comic relief.

Looks even less protesters today, skytrain not overly crowded other reports of donations being asked for and collected.

Suthep isnt about reform and most Thais get that now, they will be more than happy if this starts a wave of change but arnt going to waste their time with Sutheps plan for domination, they are far more sincere than he is and far more decent,perhaps you should pay more attention to widening your perspective.

Its far better they go home now and let another grass root movement grow like respect the vote or white shirts with integrity than start violence which is all that they will have left soon.

Thank you for telling me I have no idea what its all about but I probably interact with a more varied cross section of Thais nationwide than youve had noodle soup,

Yesterday walking from BRT Satorn to BTS ChongNongsri I saw (again) some enterprising fellows selling black or white shirts with protest slogans on them. They may be the only protesters who get paid.

[whybother]

Article 157 of the Penal Code, according to a recent article in The Nation, although I haven't checked this myself.

So, not actually the constitution then.

Chapter 2 - Malfeasance in Office

Section 157 Whoever, being an official, wrongfully exercises or does not exercise any of his functions to the injury of any person, or dishonestly exercises or omits to exercise any of his functions, shall be punished with imprisonment of one to ten years or fined of two thousand to twenty thousand Baht, or both.

Nothing there about not being able to resign. If someone was to resign, then they wouldn't have any functions to perform.

.

Since you're clearly well informed on the Thai constitution, perhaps you can direct me to the bit that deals with "stepping down".

Resignation clearly implies immediate replacement by a successor, in this case another PTP minister. Sutheps "stepping down", on the other hand, clearly means complete abdication of responsibility, to be replaced by God-knows-what. This would look a lot like a breach of code 157 to me. Still, I'm not an expert. How exactly would a Prime Minister walk away from her job with no idea who or what would be replacing her the next day?

I am not claiming to be well informed on the constitution, which is why I asked "Levelhead" which part of the constitution is stopping her from stepping down.

The moment she resigns she is no longer an official. How can she be in breach of section 157 if she's not an official?

I am not advocating Suthep's "plan", but that doesn't stop Yingluck from resigning to allow everyone to move forward. If she resigns, a deputy will take her place (similarly to when she is overseas, or when a PM is forced out by the courts). The new acting PM can then start negotiations.

[Spalpeen]

I am not advocating Suthep's "plan", but that doesn't stop Yingluck from resigning to allow everyone to move forward. If she resigns, a deputy will take her place (similarly to when she is overseas, or when a PM is forced out by the courts). The new acting PM can then start negotiations.

.

And with whom would the new acting PM negotiate?

.

.

Given that Suthep and the loony brigade won't negotiate with Yingluck, they're hardly going to negotiate with anyone else from PTP either, are they? Time for a reality check. It's elections or anarchy.

[pipkins]

More good news. http://www.establishmentpost.com/bangkok-shutdown-fails-cripple-thai-capital/

and on topic as well for a change.

Will the yellow pedants on here with the bizarre knee jerk reqests for Quotes and souce please do the following.

Log on to twitter and follow Richard Barrow of some noted tweeter. They post every pic taken at every rally ever and have live feeds. Please tell us if you think there are more people now than Monday.

Then make a guess at how many are protesting still and subtract that number from 7 million ( which is what suthep and co were claiming at the weekend)

Then work out your figure as a percentage of 67 million (pop of thailand) and come back and tell us Suthep is speaking for all thais.

No evidence required, but I'd be really interested in some facts and opinions that you hold dear.

And please keep the silly comparisons to other things out of it. Thanksin blah blah blah, we know all about it, just see how you get on this this for now.

Good think about the press coverage that Suthep demanded is that it is now showing him in a very bad light, showing him to be villain and showing his number falling fast. Most media have done their research into him and hit past dealings and land deals etc. So he is down to a few hard core supporters now and a few head in the sand falangs for company.

[englishoak]

Transparency is always a good thing, it roots out the criminals and the liars. Most of all it stops new ones fooling people

[whybother]

I am not advocating Suthep's "plan", but that doesn't stop Yingluck from resigning to allow everyone to move forward. If she resigns, a deputy will take her place (similarly to when she is overseas, or when a PM is forced out by the courts). The new acting PM can then start negotiations.

.

And with whom would the new acting PM negotiate?

.

image.jpg

.

Given that Suthep and the loony brigade won't negotiate with Yingluck, they're hardly going to negotiate with anyone else from PTP either, are they? Time for a reality check. It's elections or anarchy.

Since Suthep's main demand is for Yingluck to step down, it is quite possible that he would negotiate if she did in fact step down.

[Spalpeen]

I am not advocating Suthep's "plan", but that doesn't stop Yingluck from resigning to allow everyone to move forward. If she resigns, a deputy will take her place (similarly to when she is overseas, or when a PM is forced out by the courts). The new acting PM can then start negotiations.

.

And with whom would the new acting PM negotiate?

.

image.jpg

.

Given that Suthep and the loony brigade won't negotiate with Yingluck, they're hardly going to negotiate with anyone else from PTP either, are they? Time for a reality check. It's elections or anarchy.

Since Suthep's main demand is for Yingluck to step down, it is quite possible that he would negotiate if she did in fact step down.

.

[TomTao]

I found this blog called Land Destroyer that offers a reason behind the protests, it says that the Thaksin regime is heavily backed by Wall Street and other international interests who want a pliable regime in power that would allow foreign interests to exploit Thailand and other countries in the region, whereas the anti-government protests are happening as a result of a desire to be free from such international manipulation. Here is the link, i hope it works. http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/

Frogshit...Thaksin ain't smart enough to pull them strings.

As for the other half...yeah they want to be free of international manipulation so they can do it all themselves.

They want the power and money that comes with it themselves, more of it, they all have plenty, the greedy mofo's just keep on wanting.

Take a look at that stupid hiso cow, the daughter of a singha guy that came out and got stuck into the dumb people up north...funny it is the population of such dumb people that buy their beer and have made them billionaires....thailand has big issues with customer realisation and reality.....get back on earth you pack of 3rd hand up yourselves people.

I don't know whether you read the blog or not, but what I gathered from it is that Thaksin is in control of his puppet and associated sycophants, but he is a marionette controlled by multiple strings that are being pulled by multiple international interests.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The blog has elements of pure drivel in it, overlaid with supposition and just plain errors.

PT did not win a 'mere 48%' which equates to 35%. It won 48.41% of all votes cast. Those that do not cast votes do not count in a democratic system. They were the biggest party and were able to put together a government. That is how democracy works.

Does Thaksin run Thailand under PT. Only an idiot would deem it possible. Think for a brief moment what it takes to run a country like this day to day. Does Yingluck talk to him? Probably, but the 48.41% who voted PT were aware of that when they voted. Whether you like it or not, that does not invalidate her government.

Do the world's financial institutions support the current government? I imagine they do as it's presided over a very strong economic period for the country. Real incomes have doubled, manufacturing is booming and Thailand rode out the world financial crisis - one of the few countries that did. The credit reports are good and Thai banks are above average in their Moody's ratings. And it's in Thailand's interest to be part of a system that provides huge numbers of jobs and international credit etc. You'll note that 1500 Japanese businesses have said today they will leave Thailand if Suthep succeeds. Do you have any idea of what a disaster that would be for Thailand. The well to do protesting in the streets perhaps should take note of the fact that they will be substantially less well off if Yingluck resigns as they are demanding.

It's an impending disaster for Thailand and all Thais.

There may well be inaccuracies in the blog, I don't dispute the percentage of the vote which the government received in the last election, I put up the blog because it raised the possibility of foreign manipulation behind the scenes affecting the way the country is run now and how it may be run in the future, remembering that truth can often be stranger than fiction. As to the issue of Thaksin running the country from his self imposed exile, PTP's campaign slogan during the last election was 'Thaksin thinks Pnue Thai does', plus the reported Skype calls during party meetings that have been discussed at times in different threads in this forum, and cabinate ministers flying overseas to locations where Thaksin just happens to be at the same time. I have little doubt that foreign interests are acting behind the scenes and influencing party policy, most likely different interests behind the scenes on both sides of the political divide for economic and strategic reasons. The blog may not be too well written or researched, but to simply dismiss the possibility of foreign interference would be a mistake in my opinion.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited January 15, 2014 by TomTao

[Prbkk]

The international news services are all commenting on declining numbers, waning support for the protests. ALL of them.

[pipkins]

The international news services are all commenting on declining numbers, waning support for the protests. ALL of them.

Yep, we've been posting all day about the miriad pic on twitter showing just what you say.

I think the bad press they are now getting may just be enough to make the Army keep the hell out of it and disown him as they did last year with the general who tried to spark the coup then. Oct 1012 I think.

I am amazed at how ill informed many of our Westen Counterparts really are. do they stay glued to Bluesky all their lives (ASTV as was).

Whats really funny is that the proffessor seri guy and the lecturer from the stage on Saturday encouraging sexual violence against Yinkluck have made the education system here a laughing stock. That many thais see them as heros compounds this. ALL of these guys and most on the stages went to school around the Same Time as Thaksin, so the education system here must have been a basket case that even they can't pin on him.

If these are the elite professors, where does that leave their sheep?

[Spalpeen]

9am and it's certainly looking like a flop so far. A few troublemakers loitering around traffic junctions in inner Bangkok while 99.9% of Thailand gets on with business as usual. The women around my way are cackling and waggling their little fingers. They say that Suthep just hasn't got it.

.

A week on and it's almost 9am on monday again. Where does the time go when you're trying to overthrow a democratically elected government, eh? The Big Bangkok Shutdown is looking more floppy than ever and the seditionists have resorted to violence, just as I predicted.

Only two more weeks to go until the real people of Thailand have their say.

[JRSoul]

9am and it's certainly looking like a flop so far. A few troublemakers loitering around traffic junctions in inner Bangkok while 99.9% of Thailand gets on with business as usual. The women around my way are cackling and waggling their little fingers. They say that Suthep just hasn't got it.

.

A week on and it's almost 9am on monday again. Where does the time go when you're trying to overthrow a democratically elected government, eh? The Big Bangkok Shutdown is looking more floppy than ever and the seditionists have resorted to violence, just as I predicted.

Only two more weeks to go until the real people of Thailand have their say.

Wrong on every point. Yingluk is about to resign, her red shirt militia are out chucking grenades, and the election is not going to happen.

[ginjag]

Why on earth doesn't someone tell him to get stuffed in Technicolour.

[Spalpeen]

Why on earth doesn't someone tell him to get stuffed in Technicolour.

.

Sore loser? I predicted that the big shutdown would turn into a tiny shutdown, and I was right. I predicted that the anti democracy mob would then turn to violence, and I was right. I said that the danger of a coup had passed, and so far I've been right. I predict that a week from now nothing much will have changed and we'll be a week closer to the election.

Let's hear your predictions for the next seven days and we'll so who gets it right.