Major evidence that low carb diets not needed for long term weight loss/maintenance success

[hanno]

Not diet, lifestyle.

[robblok]

I am in general low carb.. just one of my meals has carbs and that is the first one of the day. But I am not obsessive about it, i have noticed that it holds some advantages for me. Also studies have shown some (minor but in the long run it helps) advantages of lower carb.

But i start with a bowl of oatmeal and some kefir that i mix up with some protein powder and creatine (creatine purely for exercise). Other meals would be an omelette with cheese and minced pork or beef.. or salads .. or fish.

[JSixpack]

@Jingthing:

They also found carbohydrate-selective diets to be better than categorically low-carbohydrate[/size] diets, in that incorporating whole grains is associated with lower risks for cancers and better control of body weight. Attention to glycemic load and index is "sensible at the least." Eating foods that have high glycemic loads (which Katz says is much more relevant to health outcomes than glycemic index—in that some quality foods like carrots have very high indices, which could be misleading) is associated with greater risk of heart disease.[/size]

The low glycemic part is spot on. The "incorporating whole grains" probably doesn't account for other factors, e.g., exercise, veggies, etc.

Never been shown why veggies can't adequately supply what grain has.

Also this article disses Paleo diets for the same reason I have brought up in another thread. Our modern meat is not remotely the same as ancient meat sources:

Finally, in a notable blow to some interpretations of the Paleo diet, Katz and Meller wrote, "if Paleolithic eating is loosely interpreted to mean a diet based mostly on meat, no meaningful interpretation of health effects is possible." They note that the composition of most meat in today's food supply is not similar to that of mammoth meat, and that most plants available during the Stone Age are today extinct. (Though it wouldn't surprise me to learn that Paleo extremists are crowd-funding a [/size]Jurassic Park style experiment to bring them back.)[/size]

"If interpreted"--but, you see, it isn't by the leading paleo advocates, so just a straw man, in fact a variation of the "zero carbs" lie that you continue to spread, Jingthing. (I may have to report you to the mods unless you give some some evidence of a low carb or paleo authority who advocates zero carbs.)

Then there's that Jurassic Park nonsense that tells you you're listening to a huckster of some kind.

We have all those positive testimonials by people who've successfully lost excessive weight and greatly improved their health by following the paleo diet. Best thing to do is try it yourself and see if it works for you, rather than dig up flawed studies and hacks merely because you don't like it.

I always thought the Paelo diet was BS.

But these people don't agree w/ you, 'cause it worked so well for them:

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/category/success-story-summaries/

Seems you're greatly outnumbered. So maybe it's just your thought that's BS. At the least, you must agree, it appears the jury's still out.

Low carb and the paleo variation aren't short-term quick fix diets. That's just another slander perpetuated here on the forum. They're permanent diets or "lifestyles" if you will now followed by millions.

Edited March 28, 2014 by JSixpack

[Jingthing]

I agree low carb is the real deal as we need to restrict carbs for life, no doubt. No carb seems insane to me. Paleo, I'm sure, that is a classic FAD.

[h90]

I agree low carb is the real deal as we need to restrict carbs for life, no doubt. No carb seems insane to me. Paleo, I'm sure, that is a classic FAD.

"No" carbs mean you eat a lot protein, means your liver just change some amino acids to carbs and you are on low carb again.

Kidney may need to work harder. But considering you are healthy and replace the carbs with protein "no" carbs and low carbs won't differ that much.

One thing that helps the "no" carbs....when you see the choices of food, you rather eat nothing than that and surely you don't overeat.

On low carbs you easily cheat a bit more food on your dish.

[Jingthing]

We'll agree to disagree then. I don't see no carb as a good healthy idea for the masses for their lifetime eating plan. I'll never see that as anything but an extremist approach.

[h90]

We'll agree to disagree then. I don't see no carb as a good healthy idea for the masses for their lifetime eating plan. I'll never see that as anything but an extremist approach.

no carb is surely not for lifetime. Just to get off a lot weight in short time, and than increasing carbohydrates....

It is an extreme approach to get rid of weight without much pain......And I admit I am a bit of an extremist....

[Jingthing]

We'll agree to disagree then. I don't see no carb as a good healthy idea for the masses for their lifetime eating plan. I'll never see that as anything but an extremist approach.

no carb is surely not for lifetime. Just to get off a lot weight in short time, and than increasing carbohydrates....

It is an extreme approach to get rid of weight without much pain......And I admit I am a bit of an extremist....

I understand. But this is a problem for my POV as I think short term solutions are always a bad idea for a long term weight control/health problem.

[JSixpack]

Paleo, I'm sure, that is a classic FAD.

And that surety is based on?

I once thought "organic" was a fad, but it's definitely here to stay. Now I think Paleo is going to stay around because it works and it's kinda like "organic + low carb." It's not wildly popular like a true fad and never will be because most people aren't going to give up their carb addictions. It's also more expensive, not so easy to do, and not heavily promoted, like, say, Weight Watchers.

I think if you learn more about paleo, you'll find that much of it makes sense, but even if you think it doesn't, it's working well for large numbers of the formerly overweight and out of shape. Besides the diet, there's also the exercise that goes along with it. It IS a lifestyle.

Best thing to do is go to http://www.marksdailyapple.com/ and start reading. Mark has to make a living, of course, but he's no nutjob, practices what he preaches, and anyone can comment on the posts. You may ask your questions and express your objections there if you wish. Why remain in a state of ignorance and just continually mouth your "beliefs" with the masses of the uninformed here? Because it's just so comfortable?

And here're a few vids to watch:

[Jingthing]

Enjoy the fad until the new fad comes along.

We're not cavemen hunters.

The meat we get now doesn't resemble caveman meat.

[h90]

Enjoy the fad until the new fad comes along.

We're not cavemen hunters.

The meat we get now doesn't resemble caveman meat.

Genetically we are cavemen hunters...

[Jingthing]

Enjoy the fad until the new fad comes along.

We're not cavemen hunters.

The meat we get now doesn't resemble caveman meat.

Genetically we are cavemen hunters...

That's what they're selling I get it.

Where are they selling caveman meat?

[h90]

Paleo, I'm sure, that is a classic FAD.

And that surety is based on?

I once thought "organic" was a fad, but it's definitely here to stay. Now I think Paleo is going to stay around because it works and it's kinda like "organic + low carb." It's not wildly popular like a true fad and never will be because most people aren't going to give up their carb addictions. It's also more expensive, not so easy to do, and not heavily promoted, like, say, Weight Watchers.

I think if you learn more about paleo, you'll find that much of it makes sense, but even if you think it doesn't, it's working well for large numbers of the formerly overweight and out of shape. Besides the diet, there's also the exercise that goes along with it. It IS a lifestyle.

Best thing to do is go to http://www.marksdailyapple.com/ and start reading. Mark has to make a living, of course, but he's no nutjob, practices what he preaches, and anyone can comment on the posts. You may ask your questions and express your objections there if you wish. Why remain in a state of ignorance and just continually mouth your "beliefs" with the masses of the uninformed here? Because it's just so comfortable?

And here're a few vids to watch:

And for many people switching to this kind of diet fixes a lot health problems, high blood sugar, high cholesterol.

I need roughly one hour less sleep. And I always had some acne like things on my head, not sure what it is. With the Paleo (I don't like the name much) it just went away.

Maybe it isn't for everyone, but definitely I feel more healthy.

[JSixpack]

The meat we get now doesn't resemble caveman meat.

You've fixated (again) to dismiss the whole thing merely because you don't like it.

Now since you're an expert on this one point, please explain why the wild salmon, grass-fed beef, and free-range chicken recommended by paleo isn't close enough to the kind of protein that Og consumed to qualify as very likely better for you than grain-hormone-antibiotic-fed protein that you're currently eating? What's the critical difference in those that dooms paleo to failure so that the experts to whom I referred above are just all wet and the paleo diet can be dismissed in favor of, say, that wonderful garcinia gambogia?

Not that you go for fads, of course.

[h90]

The meat we get now doesn't resemble caveman meat.

You've fixated (again) to dismiss the whole thing merely because you don't like it.

Now since you're an expert on this one point, please explain why the wild salmon, grass-fed beef, and free-range chicken recommended by paleo isn't close enough to the kind of protein that Og consumed to qualify as very likely better for you than grain-hormone-antibiotic-fed protein that you're currently eating? What's the critical difference in those that dooms paleo to failure so that the experts to whom I referred above are just all wet and the paleo diet can be dismissed in favor of, say, that wonderful garcinia gambogia?

Not that you go for fads, of course.

There are only 2 point that speaks against the Paleo diet is: It costs more time and money to buy good meat than cheap junk food. And on limited money, people would rather buy the new mobile phone than eating healthy.

Second if everyone would eat more meat we wouldn't have the resource to feed so many billion people. As animals consume a lot food to grow meat. It is way more efficient to feed that direct to people instead.

[ronz28]

Problems with many quick weight loss diets out there as documented here

I find the Organic Vegan diet is best for me but may be difficult to find in Thailand:

No meat of any kind including fish, chicken, beef, lamb, or anything else with a face with a face that screams or wiggles in preparation for people consumption. No transfats and minimize and limit cooking oil to virgin olive oil and organic coconut oil.

I eat healthy foods like garlic, green onions, yellow onions, organic kale, organic brocolli, organic spinach, mushrooms, cilantro, brussel sprouts, cauliflower, red or purple cabbage, ginger, organic tofu, brown rice, beans (especially red, pinto, garbanzo and black), chickpeas, turmeric, blueberries, cranberries, walnuts, pecans, pistachios, flaxseeds, chiaseeds, quinoa, old fashioned oats, organic apples, organic strawberries, Indian gooseberry, lemons, limes, oranges, pomegranate, nutritional yeast, mangos, papayas, pineapples, carrots, tomatoes, sweet potatoes, avocadoes, kiwis, hibiscus tea, etc.

Have cut out most wheat and corn products to avoid glutten and genetically modified organisms so prevelantly sold in US supermarkets.

Have lost about 50 pounds and want to shed another 20 but have plateaued. Still need to exercise as lifting weights about 30 minutes/ week and some weekly yard work is not enough.

[h90]

Problems with many quick weight loss diets out there as documented here

I find the Organic Vegan diet is best for me but may be difficult to find in Thailand:

No meat of any kind including fish, chicken, beef, lamb, or anything else with a face with a face that screams or wiggles in preparation for people consumption. No transfats and minimize and limit cooking oil to virgin olive oil and organic coconut oil.

I eat healthy foods like garlic, green onions, yellow onions, organic kale, organic brocolli, organic spinach, mushrooms, cilantro, brussel sprouts, cauliflower, red or purple cabbage, ginger, organic tofu, brown rice, beans (especially red, pinto, garbanzo and black), chickpeas, turmeric, blueberries, cranberries, walnuts, pecans, pistachios, flaxseeds, chiaseeds, quinoa, old fashioned oats, organic apples, organic strawberries, Indian gooseberry, lemons, limes, oranges, pomegranate, nutritional yeast, mangos, papayas, pineapples, carrots, tomatoes, sweet potatoes, avocadoes, kiwis, hibiscus tea, etc.

Have cut out most wheat and corn products to avoid glutten and genetically modified organisms so prevelantly sold in US supermarkets.

Have lost about 50 pounds and want to shed another 20 but have plateaued. Still need to exercise as lifting weights about 30 minutes/ week and some weekly yard work is not enough.

A video with a few true things, some half true and many wrong.

If you crash diet and than change your eating back to the same as before you get the same fat or even more....no brainer.

If you crash diet and than keep controlling what you eat you keep the weight.

That idea: I make a diet and than everything is fine is wrong....The diet never ends if you want to keep the weight.

Good to hear that it works for you, congratulations...but wouldn't be my thing....but people are different.

[JSixpack]

I find the Organic Vegan diet is best for me but may be difficult to find in Thailand:

No meat of any kind including fish, chicken, beef, lamb, or anything else with a face with a face that screams or wiggles in preparation for people consumption. No transfats and minimize and limit cooking oil to virgin olive oil and organic coconut oil.

Despite having lower BMIs and drinking less alcohol, vegetarians have “poorer health (higher incidences of cancer, allergies, and mental health disorders), a higher need for health care, and poorer quality of life.”

[ronz28]

I've gone to the end of the internet and back to learn the most nutritionally dense plant foods effective in preventing chronic diseases and I stick with whole unprocessed plant foods. I like Dr. Greger's site best for presenting an abundance of the latest research on the effectiveness of certain foods in preventing cancer, heart disease, etc. http://nutritionfacts.org/

The problem with vitamins, supplements and meds is you may not be getting the real deal and would not know until you get sick, etc.

[JSixpack]

I've gone to the end of the internet and back to learn the most nutritionally dense plant foods effective in preventing chronic diseases and I stick with whole unprocessed plant foods. I like Dr. Greger's site best for presenting an abundance of the latest research on the effectiveness of certain foods in preventing cancer, heart disease, etc. http://nutritionfacts.org/

Debunked: http://www.humanewatch.org/hsus_doc_exposed_as_schlock/

Just tells you what you want to hear.

[ronz28]

A Google search will show everyone that the website you site is a phony front group for certain food industries and attempts to discredit real scientific research that proves animal products will harm you. See the lies exposed at http://stophumanewatch.org/

[JSixpack]

A Google search will show everyone that the website you site is a phony front group for certain food industries and attempts to discredit real scientific research that proves animal products will harm you. See the lies exposed at http://stophumanewatch.org/

Vegan sites have their own political agendas and partisan funding groups--and you believe such sites because they tell you what you want to hear. Point is, why don't you give the science to show that Greger hasn't been debunked.

[h90]

A Google search will show everyone that the website you site is a phony front group for certain food industries and attempts to discredit real scientific research that proves animal products will harm you. See the lies exposed at http://stophumanewatch.org/

Vegan sites have their own political agendas and partisan funding groups--and you believe such sites because they tell you what you want to hear. Point is, why don't you give the science to show that Greger hasn't been debunked.

As the humans always were hunter (we could argue to what degree) and ate animals and eggs it is obvious that our body can handle it without getting harmed.

If vegan is the same good, or if killing animals is amoralic can be discussed but it is complete clear that animal products doesn't hurt us.

Some populations eat almost only animal products (Inuits).

[tropo]

Question.. pardon my ignorance.. red meat.. does that mean beef or just beef that is not well done ?

Red meat includes beef, lamb, pork, goat, etc.

Personally, I feel going more veggie is a good thing to do for many people, it's also associated with changing to more thin type gut bacteria profiles, but I couldn't be a dogmatic full vegetarian.

JT with red meat do they mean not well done ? or even if well done it still counts to the group of red meat ?

Been a question of me for a long time... if it is about how well done it is then I almost never take red meat. Otherwise.. yes I eat pork and beef (not lamb or goat)

It has nothing to do with the cooking style, raw to well done all the same. It's the type of meat. Non-red meats would include fish, seafood, and chicken.

We all know pork should be cooked well, but if you like your beef anything under well-done, and it's Thai beef, it's very important you freeze it for a day before eating it. If not, sooner or later you'll end up with a beef tapeworm sooner, just as I did. If it's NZ, Australian or US imported beef, you'll be fine.

Edited May 3, 2014 by tropo

[tropo]

A Google search will show everyone that the website you site is a phony front group for certain food industries and attempts to discredit real scientific research that proves animal products will harm you. See the lies exposed at http://stophumanewatch.org/

Vegan sites have their own political agendas and partisan funding groups--and you believe such sites because they tell you what you want to hear. Point is, why don't you give the science to show that Greger hasn't been debunked.

As the humans always were hunter (we could argue to what degree) and ate animals and eggs it is obvious that our body can handle it without getting harmed.

If vegan is the same good, or if killing animals is amoralic can be discussed but it is complete clear that animal products doesn't hurt us.

Some populations eat almost only animal products (Inuits).

This is the problem with the Paleo diet theory. It's a theory based on a theory. We don't know what humans ate 10's of 1000's of years ago. There is a huge variation in food consumption around the world and many populations do very well and are very healthy on high carb diets, but you don't hear the Paleo diet theorists talking about them.

We're omnivores and can do well on any kind of diet as long as we don't eat too much and it's not highly refined.

[healthbkkbkk]

I thought the low carb fad had all but vanished.

[tropo]

I thought the low carb fad had all but vanished.

Really? I would say the opposite is true and everyone is talking about it (where have you been hiding?).

It's not a fad, but a seriously effective way to lose weight AND help your blood sugar levels at the same time.

[healthbkkbkk]

I thought the low carb fad had all but vanished.

Really? I would say the opposite is true and everyone is talking about it (where have you been hiding?).

It's not a fad, but a seriously effective way to lose weight AND help your blood sugar levels at the same time.

Somehow only half my post was published.

I usually try to keep track of things and yes, low carb has gone out of style at least in the bodybuilding and athletic circles.

Eat enough protein which is something many don't do and relatively expensive in Thailand. Eat enough good fats as well as enough of what most call the bad fats because without them the major hormones cannot be produced. eat enough carbs because without them, for unknown reasons, testosterone decreases and who wants that?

Eat a little less than maintenance, increase physical activity and healthfully lose fat the way it has been done for tens of thousands of years.

just my opinion.

[tropo]

I thought the low carb fad had all but vanished.

Really? I would say the opposite is true and everyone is talking about it (where have you been hiding?).

It's not a fad, but a seriously effective way to lose weight AND help your blood sugar levels at the same time.

Somehow only half my post was published.

I usually try to keep track of things and yes, low carb has gone out of style at least in the bodybuilding and athletic circles.

Eat enough protein which is something many don't do and relatively expensive in Thailand. Eat enough good fats as well as enough of what most call the bad fats because without them the major hormones cannot be produced. eat enough carbs because without them, for unknown reasons, testosterone decreases and who wants that?

Eat a little less than maintenance, increase physical activity and healthfully lose fat the way it has been done for tens of thousands of years.

just my opinion.

Low carb has not gone out of fashion. Everyone talks about it. Very effective too - got down to single digit figures with veins popping out everywhere on low carbs/high protein. It's the diet I would choose if I wanted to get very lean.

[healthbkkbkk]

I thought the low carb fad had all but vanished.

Really? I would say the opposite is true and everyone is talking about it (where have you been hiding?).

It's not a fad, but a seriously effective way to lose weight AND help your blood sugar levels at the same time.

Somehow only half my post was published.

I usually try to keep track of things and yes, low carb has gone out of style at least in the bodybuilding and athletic circles.

Eat enough protein which is something many don't do and relatively expensive in Thailand. Eat enough good fats as well as enough of what most call the bad fats because without them the major hormones cannot be produced. eat enough carbs because without them, for unknown reasons, testosterone decreases and who wants that?

Eat a little less than maintenance, increase physical activity and healthfully lose fat the way it has been done for tens of thousands of years.

just my opinion.

Low carb has not gone out of fashion. Everyone talks about it. Very effective too - got down to single digit figures with veins popping out everywhere on low carbs/high protein. It's the diet I would choose if I wanted to get very lean.

If you have 20 kilos to lose would you do it all on a low carb? The viens showing is you being dehydrated as a low carb does that and most of us find veins to be unattractive.

I'm thinking about the common person and not specialized cases. And who is talking about it? not the pros.