EC commissioner wants election to go back to square one

[SouthernMan3]

Useless dipshit.

The Government already asked the Council of State. The Council of State already said that postponing the whole election was not allowed under the constitution. The government offers to try and do it anyway, and he snubs them.

Am I the only one who think the EC's tactics mirror the PDRC's a bit? Demand something, then when you finally get it, ignore it and demand something else.

What would you prefer Sir ?

To have an election now that will be moot as there are not 95% of PMs to vote on and thereby waste tax payer's money of 5.5 bill. bht. ?

(That's what election will cost, btw.)

Or save the 5.5 bil. of the government's/Taxpayer's money, have reform before election and then have an election that will be accepted via the rules of the Constitution, Domestically and Internationally as well ?

Think good and hard on this one Mr. Zolt.

Sure seems like a no brainier to me.

Then again who am I but some guy who does his research and knows the law kap

Or was it 550 mil. bkt.?

I don't rightly remember and am too tired from working all day in the garden to look it up.

Either way, wouldn't it be better to use this money to pay the Issan farmers what the gov't has promised them tomorrow re: rice scheme ?

Or me and my wife and daughters what the promised us ?

2250 bht./rai for 25 rai./family for 7 months.

They promised that to my face and after all the paperwork and everything was done correctly this gov't. gave us for 1 month only and now no more.

Yea, like I really trust their words.............

I could go on if you still don't understand the situation, but 'nuff said for now if you get it kap

[Cnxforever]

The EC has several times stated ways within the present constitution that an election can be postponed.

One of those is 'if all parties agree'

Not much point in asking anyone else if PT are not going to agree.

As well as that, at one time, the EC gave a list of 6 ways under the constitution that the election could be postponed for 30 days.

One of those was 'if there is civil disturbance' that is what we have now.

The EC are the experts on election law and they are saying it can be done.

Besides, big brother himself postponed an election.

If he could do it why not his clone ?

what civil disturbance? - because somebody closed a few intersections in Bangkok? You people have to learn that Thailand is a bit bigger than Bangkok!

Most of the north and northeast is laughing about these little men jumping around on stage, shouting pretending they speak for Thailand and the Thai people.

99 % of the Thai electorate are not impacted at all by your "civil disturbance" so why should elections be postponed?

Because the EC could not make sure the candidates could register in time? All they needed to do was make sure canditates had access to the registration venues - and extend the registration process - they did not even try!

If the Democrats choose not to partake in the election process and suddenly reject democracy as a whole trying to establish an unelected "council" which will dictate people what is going to happen because they can not win in elections - then they should be stripped of their parties name!

[Bakseeda]

Useless dipshit.

The Government already asked the Council of State. The Council of State already said that postponing the whole election was not allowed under the constitution. The government offers to try and do it anyway, and he snubs them.

Am I the only one who think the EC's tactics mirror the PDRC's a bit? Demand something, then when you finally get it, ignore it and demand something else.

You are right in your reasoning and I add that you are not alone. But many zombie Suthepistas and anti-Thaksinistas see "we want" as what it really matters.

That pesky detail: the Constitution should never interfere with what they want.

It was tried in the USA when the extreme left wing of the Democrats viewed the Constitution as a "living breathing" document. That is to say, since it's a "living breathing" document it can be dissected, changed, cancelled, mutilated, etc.. That is what this movement wants. The EC commission (apparently) wants to dodge extra work and due diligence and in doing so wants to overlook and overrule The Constitution. Very convenient.

If the EC and the mostly, unruly protesters, prevail, then there will be little chance that this country ruled by patronage, corruption, tribalism and eon old feudal hierarchy, will ever become a functioning democracy.

Dysfunctional Thailand for many years to come.

Suddenly Burma began to look a viable alternative to expats..

Yes, to ignorant expats...... thank god they have somewhere to go..

[Bakseeda]

Both sides want to selectively enforce the rules. They just can't play on the same playground together. Both sides want the Constitution modified to support their view. Both sides want the Constitution rewritten to weaken their opponents.

That is politik essentiale.

I find all available information, including takes from the international community, most TV posters, and Thai news agencies so grossly incomplete that I could not make an informed ajudication of this situation if I was clairvoyant. I have read the available history, including both sides' current and past leaders, and it reads like some mad geneticist had teamed up with television writers to combine The Three Stooges, the Chicago gangsters, Elmer Fudd and Charles Manson into some hsyterically wild genetically manipulated sit-com to unleash on the world in 3D (live, without using a theater).

Too sad to be funny. Thai people deserve better than this.

Do they......?

[LevelHead]

Pheu Thai just doesn't get it. Their inclination to ignore the very body they should be listening to - the EC - and decide to unilaterally construct a forum of everybody - everybody but the Democratic party ! - is an indication that not only have they not learned anything in government ( outside of corruption. They're incredibly good at that ) - but that they seem to be losing brain cells at an alarming rate. Yingluck actually came dangerously close to thinking for herself yesterday, when she was poised to step down. But alas, thinking is something that only Thaksin is allowed to do. So here we are. The EC talks reasonably about square one, as the current path leads inexorably and inevitably to a stillborn parliament. But Thaksin's dream of square one is where we are right now - in the Bermuda Triangle.

You are wrong on many points but I will highlight a major flaw in bold.

The current path leads to by-elections. The Constitution was changed (by the Democrats who appear to be able to change it whilst PTP are not allowed it seems ?) to prevent this stalemate as you say stillborn parliament.

The Constitution of Thailand now says that the election MUST be held within a fixed time period (which in this case expires on 7th Feb).

In the even that there is less than 20% voter turn out then a by-election must be held and in the event of a by-election the 20% rule no longer applies. In simple terms in effect as long as someone stands and someone votes then thats it.

By-elections must be held again and again and again until there is an election result.

This is the Constitution of Thailand and the caretaker government has to follow it.

Suthep, the Democrat Party, the EC, the opinionated media can all suggest that PTP does not hold an election or delays it past 7th Feb and breaches the Constitution and therefore get taken out of power, but of course PTP will not deliberately break the Constitution rules.

PTP is 100% correct to say the election goes ahead in line with the Constitution.

Anyone who suggests to delay is simply trying to walk the PTP right into a trap where they will break the rules and then be kicked out of power. Anyone who is suggesting that the election is delayed past 7th Feb is actually showing total disregard to the Constitution, even contempt for it perhaps, would be my opinion.

Anyway, the above is my opinion and understanding of the status and nothing more.

[LevelHead]

The EC has several times stated ways within the present constitution that an election can be postponed.

One of those is 'if all parties agree'

Not much point in asking anyone else if PT are not going to agree.

As well as that, at one time, the EC gave a list of 6 ways under the constitution that the election could be postponed for 30 days.

One of those was 'if there is civil disturbance' that is what we have now.

The EC are the experts on election law and they are saying it can be done.

Besides, big brother himself postponed an election.

If he could do it why not his clone ?

The EC has stated many ways in which it could be delayed, but they cannot guarantee that the Constitution Court judges would agree.

And herein lies the GAME.

The EC are not the Constitution Court.

If the EC says to PTP you can delay by doing this, and then PTP does it, there will be a legal challenge from the PDRC in the Constitution Court and if the court then rules the EC were wrong and that the Constitution does not allow for the delay - then its game over for PTP.

The EC will say "whoops.... sorry about that" and Suthep will laugh out loud for many hours.

The Constitution Court cannot rule in advance, they can only rule after an event happens and someone lodges a complaint, so if PTP delay the election for anything other than a National Emergency as defined in the Constitution then its highly likely, regardless of what the EC advise, that they will be deemed in breach and they all get removed from power.

Thats my opinion anyway.

[englishoak]

The EC are doing their job, they are taking in all sides and issuing their concerns and solutions, trouble is it doesnt suit thaksin or the ptp/reds and they hate the fact that the EC are not doing their bidding but remaining independant. Must really hurt to know you cant buy everyone in Thailand.

The EC's job is to run the election and not to dictate to the government. You can look at their mandate if you want to. Unfortunately the EC is controlled by the traditional elite and will do anything their paymasters tell them to do. Corruption in Thailand is not the sole domain of TS.

Summed up perfectly the ~EC have been doing some pretty incompetent things lately and making some very strange statements for a legit and competent Election Commission. Then again It shouldnt be a surprise I was told way back in the early 2000s the EC took bribes from both sides depending who was in the EC seat at the time, since then ive come to realise they probably do just that, like all the rest.

Edited January 14, 2014 by englishoak

[pisico]

Useless dipshit.

The Government already asked the Council of State. The Council of State already said that postponing the whole election was not allowed under the constitution. The government offers to try and do it anyway, and he snubs them.

Am I the only one who think the EC's tactics mirror the PDRC's a bit? Demand something, then when you finally get it, ignore it and demand something else.

You are right in your reasoning and I add that you are not alone. But many zombie Suthepistas and anti-Thaksinistas see "we want" as what it really matters.

That pesky detail: the Constitution should never interfere with what they want.

It was tried in the USA when the extreme left wing of the Democrats viewed the Constitution as a "living breathing" document. That is to say, since it's a "living breathing" document it can be dissected, changed, cancelled, mutilated, etc.. That is what this movement wants. The EC commission (apparently) wants to dodge extra work and due diligence and in doing so wants to overlook and overrule The Constitution. Very convenient.

If the EC and the mostly, unruly protesters, prevail, then there will be little chance that this country ruled by patronage, corruption, tribalism and eon old feudal hierarchy, will ever become a functioning democracy.

Dysfunctional Thailand for many years to come.

Suddenly Burma began to look a viable alternative to expats..

reading this and comments like this really makes me think there is a diod reason for euthanasia. And... The prevention if voting rights for many.

If this is how bloody minded you are about achieving democracy there really is no hope for your thought processes... And that goes for people like you. Nothing is black and whitee

Sent from my RM-892_apac_laos_thailand_219 using Tapatalk

Why not debate the issue instead of resorting to labels and ad hominem?

Spewing bile will never positively contribute to a discussion. It will only lower the quality of language and promote animosity.

Quote

"reading this and comments like this really makes me think there is a diod reason for euthanasia."

Fortunately for all of those who disagree with such arrogant response you cannot to control the destiny of anyone in this country. Why not debate the issue instead of resorting to taking the subject ad hominem?

Quote

"The prevention if voting rights for many."

According to the quote: euthanasia and stripping people of their voting rights. Are valid devices to solve the ills of Democracy. Dr. Mengele would have been happy to read those words.

That of course, is how Democracy should be achieved and is understood by the uber corrupt Suthep, the mindless drones that dance to his tune... and you.

[Mackie]

The EC has several times stated ways within the present constitution that an election can be postponed.

One of those is 'if all parties agree'

Not much point in asking anyone else if PT are not going to agree.

As well as that, at one time, the EC gave a list of 6 ways under the constitution that the election could be postponed for 30 days.

One of those was 'if there is civil disturbance' that is what we have now.

The EC are the experts on election law and they are saying it can be done.

Besides, big brother himself postponed an election.

If he could do it why not his clone ?

what civil disturbance? - because somebody closed a few intersections in Bangkok? You people have to learn that Thailand is a bit bigger than Bangkok!

Most of the north and northeast is laughing about these little men jumping around on stage, shouting pretending they speak for Thailand and the Thai people.

99 % of the Thai electorate are not impacted at all by your "civil disturbance" so why should elections be postponed?

Because the EC could not make sure the candidates could register in time? All they needed to do was make sure canditates had access to the registration venues - and extend the registration process - they did not even try!

If the Democrats choose not to partake in the election process and suddenly reject democracy as a whole trying to establish an unelected "council" which will dictate people what is going to happen because they can not win in elections - then they should be stripped of their parties name!

You never get tired with your abject nonsense of this administration being democracy and defending democratic process. Stop kidding yourself. Are people like Chalerm, Nattawut, Jatuporn, Arisman, Kwanchai etc...etc... democrats? Is it normal to lose 13 billion USD just to stay popular in rural part of the country? Give an example of the single country in the world who blew massive hole in its economy in such a short space. A single example. You claim that you defend democracy and democratic process (by the way it's an illusion). Let me put it this way. Democracy means accountability, democracy means responsibility, democracy means representation, democracy means transparency. Can you just be rational for a minute and forget about your own vested interest in the whole affair and analyse the current administration base on the above mentioned criteria? Are they accountable? Are they responsible? Are they representative? Are they transparent about their own dealings?

[englishoak]

The EC has several times stated ways within the present constitution that an election can be postponed.

One of those is 'if all parties agree'

Not much point in asking anyone else if PT are not going to agree.

As well as that, at one time, the EC gave a list of 6 ways under the constitution that the election could be postponed for 30 days.

One of those was 'if there is civil disturbance' that is what we have now.

The EC are the experts on election law and they are saying it can be done.

Besides, big brother himself postponed an election.

If he could do it why not his clone ?

what civil disturbance? - because somebody closed a few intersections in Bangkok? You people have to learn that Thailand is a bit bigger than Bangkok!

Most of the north and northeast is laughing about these little men jumping around on stage, shouting pretending they speak for Thailand and the Thai people.

99 % of the Thai electorate are not impacted at all by your "civil disturbance" so why should elections be postponed?

Because the EC could not make sure the candidates could register in time? All they needed to do was make sure canditates had access to the registration venues - and extend the registration process - they did not even try!

If the Democrats choose not to partake in the election process and suddenly reject democracy as a whole trying to establish an unelected "council" which will dictate people what is going to happen because they can not win in elections - then they should be stripped of their parties name!

You never get tired with your abject nonsense of this administration being democracy and defending democratic process. Stop kidding yourself. Are people like Chalerm, Nattawut, Jatuporn, Arisman, Kwanchai etc...etc... democrats? Is it normal to lose 13 billion USD just to stay popular in rural part of the country? Give an example of the single country in the world who blew massive hole in its economy in such a short space. A single example. You claim that you defend democracy and democratic process (by the way it's an illusion). Let me put it this way. Democracy means accountability, democracy means responsibility, democracy means representation, democracy means transparency. Can you just be rational for a minute and forget about your own vested interest in the whole affair and analyse the current administration base on the above mentioned criteria? Are they accountable? Are they responsible? Are they representative? Are they transparent about their own dealings?

How about the 08 crash and printing of hundreds of billions of all major currencies to plug a black hole of over valued junk by handing it over to the insolvent banks or buying up their own bonds and are still at it now making record profits ... again, lets see now the countries are oooo all of Europe the UK, Switzerland the US, Canada, New Zealand, Japan, China and many more. As for accountability, responsibility or representation the people who 99% seem to have been against handing them even more cash got no joy. As for transparency none of that either, no one gone to jail either yet. This is the way things are all over the place for many countries and its easy to burn a few billion baht, not even chump change really, seeing as you asked,

Edited January 14, 2014 by englishoak

[dukebowling]

Useless dipshit.

The Government already asked the Council of State. The Council of State already said that postponing the whole election was not allowed under the constitution. The government offers to try and do it anyway, and he snubs them.

Am I the only one who think the EC's tactics mirror the PDRC's a bit? Demand something, then when you finally get it, ignore it and demand something else.

You are right in your reasoning and I add that you are not alone. But many zombie Suthepistas and anti-Thaksinistas see "we want" as what it really matters.

That pesky detail: the Constitution should never interfere with what they want.

It was tried in the USA when the extreme left wing of the Democrats viewed the Constitution as a "living breathing" document. That is to say, since it's a "living breathing" document it can be dissected, changed, cancelled, mutilated, etc.. That is what this movement wants. The EC commission (apparently) wants to dodge extra work and due diligence and in doing so wants to overlook and overrule The Constitution. Very convenient.

If the EC and the mostly, unruly protesters, prevail, then there will be little chance that this country ruled by patronage, corruption, tribalism and eon old feudal hierarchy, will ever become a functioning democracy.

Dysfunctional Thailand for many years to come.

Suddenly Burma began to look a viable alternative to expats..

Would this be the same constitution that PTP ignore whenever it suits them? The one they want to change to favor themselves? The one whose court rulings PTP reject if it doesn't suit them?

Do you really think PTP are respecters and protectors of democracy? It seems Thaksin is even trying to use something in the constitution to bully his sister from resigning. A convicted criminal fugitive, wanted on other charges. If he's so respectful of the law, why doesn't he return and fight through the courts? No he prefers it when he can make the laws up as he goes along, with no checks and balances.

There are procedures for changing the constitution - but PTP don't want to follow them, as with all procedures. The expect to just tell people what to do and be obeyed without question.

The EC, constitutional court, and appropriate experts need to find the alternatives that the constitution allows - not some crook in Dubai, or is very inexperienced unqualified globe trotting sibling, or some loony leading a mass protest that seems to have lost the plot.

Once you read the constitution, you will realize that the PTP government is the only group that has followed then constitution to the letter. It is the Constitutional Court and the EC that has ignored and trampled on it. To uphold the constitution they are duty bound to reject the Court's ruling.

Btw, Thaksin conviction was not a valid one.

Check the procedures in the constitution - no where does it involve the Constitutional Court...

The crooks are in the Court system, not the PTP. Long history there of ridiculous judgements.

[Thait Spot]

The EC are doing their job, they are taking in all sides and issuing their concerns and solutions, trouble is it doesnt suit thaksin or the ptp/reds and they hate the fact that the EC are not doing their bidding but remaining independant. Must really hurt to know you cant buy everyone in Thailand.

The EC's job is to run the election and not to dictate to the government. You can look at their mandate if you want to. Unfortunately the EC is controlled by the traditional elite and will do anything their paymasters tell them to do. Corruption in Thailand is not the sole domain of TS.

Summed up perfectly the ~EC have been doing some pretty incompetent things lately and making some very strange statements for a legit and competent Election Commission. Then again It shouldnt be a surprise I was told way back in the early 2000s the EC took bribes from both sides depending who was in the EC seat at the time, since then ive come to realise they probably do just that, like all the rest.

Cheap shot.

Only to be expected

[Zolt]

Zolt remarked:

Useless dipshit.

The Government already asked the Council of State. The Council of State already said that postponing the whole election was not allowed under the constitution. The government offers to try and do it anyway, and he snubs them.

Am I the only one who think the EC's tactics mirror the PDRC's a bit? Demand something, then when you finally get it, ignore it and demand something else.

______________________________________________________________

Oops, when and where did the Council of State come up with this. Unlikely it would have slipped my attention.

But I'm sure, if the CoS rulez that there is no change of date, then the CoS will also explain, how the problem of too few MPs elected will be overcome. And take the blame, when the Comptroller General (sp?) will blame the government for wasting 3.8 billion Baht on a useless election...

It all comes down to Taksin ordering his sister via Skype to stay on, regardless of what will happen. Ah, and the later the election the more angry the farmers will be over the defaulting on their rice payments.

Sorry for the late reply. Council of state rep spoke on that a while back, December 14 to be precise:

Can't link because it's a Bangkok Post article, but just google this: "Council of state: Poll delay impossible : Bangkok Post"

[LevelHead]

Yes, you cannot delay unless in the event of War or something like that, National Emergency.

The EC wanting to reset to day 1 will only help 1 party, the Democrats.

The trouble for the Democrats is if the election goes ahead and lots of small parties win seats off of PTP, then its more than likely that lots of Democrat MP's will leave the Democrat Party and move over to join the smaller parties, as they want to be fed, and the Democrat Party will be decimated.

This is why Korn told them they must compete in the election, but was ignored as he is probably the only Democrat MP with a real intelligence, in my opinion.

So the upside for PTP now is that the Democrats decision to boycott will ultimately and finally lead to their own demise, provided there is no coup. This will be good as it will mean lots of stronger smaller parties with new ideas and new leaders to push democracy forward and to become the new opposition.

All in my opinion of course.