Children

[MyFriend You]

I have been an absentee husband because of the work I was performing in a war torn country. I didn't get to know the family that I married into or the culture of the country I am now living in. I am no longer working, so I am now living in Thailand with my wife and her family. I am living with my wife and her step father and her 3 son's. The middle son is 15yrs old and he has been promised to a 14yr old girl, I immediately had a problem with this. I was unaware that this tradition was practiced in Thailand. So now I feel the responsibility of helping to pay for whenever this wedding is supposed to take place, even though no one ever informed me of this tradition. There are some things going on here that go against my moral judgement, but I feel guilty when I talk to my wife about them. For instance the girl who has been promised to my wife's son comes and goes from our house when ever she wants to, this includes bringing friends, she pretty much ignores the fact that I am here. Today she came with 2 other girls her age and went into the bed room of her son who wasn't even here. Excuse me, folks don't knock on the front door and ask if so and so is home? What I need to know is if this is common practice in Thailand? Should I feel guilty about laying some ground rules when it comes to our house? Keep in mind that my money built the house and paid for everything in it as well as pay all the bills (cable, ele., internet, water, etc.).

indeed you should sit down with the family and speak your mind what is ok with you and what is not. Together try to find common ground what you all are comfortable with. Yes we live in Thailand and this is the culture in some rural areas but not for entire Thailand and in some provinces this behavior is frowned upon i would also ask the boy and the girl if this is what they want?

But bring up the subject sooner rather than later or it will eat you up. A friend of mine was in a similar situation and didnt speak out and 2years down the line they are divorced he went back to Norway and she got the house and other assets in thailand he did however sell both cars and the motorbike and kept the money as they were in his name.

Haven't lived here long have you?? or if you have, what color are your sunglasses

see my other post, no matter what he says, talking will not solve anything, their minds are made up and he means nothing in the discussion., his views count for ZERO...........neither does "what the boy &* girl want" its all about saving face for both parents of the 'promisee's' - the OP or his wife will of course be expected to pay for the wedding, hope he doesn't........

[NoshowJones]

You are the bread provider and also, you have every right to enjoy your life after retirement.

From personal experience, there will be some not so satisfied faces at the beginning but things will start changing.

You really think so? I think the OP needs to know that he will never be his wifes first priority, and it is rare for Farangs to be able to make changes in any capacity here.

[NoshowJones]

You say these kids come in and pretty much ignore you?

I can understand them 'avoiding' you a little, if you don't speak Thai, they will not want to be embarrassed trying to talk English.

But, I would expect them to give you a 'Wai' at least as a 'hello' and a little respect for an elder.

There seems to be a sense of you being 'taken for granted' here, likely enforced by your absentee husband past.

You made the bed to lie in, and you do right to tread easily, but don't be a mouse!

Talk to your wife and tell her you do not feel comfortable .......

And why is the 'step father' there if the mother is not?

Is he really the stepfather, and not the real father?

[Zodaka]

It's quite common for an outsider to become one of the family especially a close neighbor or vaguely related such as if the young girls mother married an uncle of your wife in the past, for example. The girls family may be seen as financially worse off that yours and this is like taking care of another child. The child will call your wife 'Mae' or mother and when she's adult she will also help out from time to time if your wife has problems. Whether she is really promised as a wife for son is very flexible at this time and I think if you ask around nobody is too serious about it. Thais won't marry usually until the girl is accidentally or otherwise made pregnant. I should be surprised if they marry at all as boy will learn his sexuality and likes/dislikes and Thailand is a free country here except perhaps for the aristocracy. As for setting the rules, you will end up being disliked by some people but I'd approach it by trying to speak with the son. If he likes the girl coming and going there's probably not much ou can do but if he actually prefers his own space as many Thais do then he'd probably be secretly appreciative of you restricting the girl.

[Finlaco]

Hi

I'm not sure if ur posting is real or not but my suggestion to carefully re-read all the posting by the various TV members - Try and get an idea why so many farang living in Thailand opt for am imbalanced approach between respecting Thai culture when it’s to the Thai's benefit but avoiding the aspects of Thai culture which is to their advantage.

You have married a poor, poorly educated Thai. In Thai culture you are afforded a lot of respect because of your education and financial position, but at the same time, you appear stupid for having actually married an uneducated girl and putting your finances in jeopardy. Normally in Thailand, a financial secure Thai man would have at best adopted her as his long time girlfriend where the rules are well understood, perform and get financial assistance, don’t and bye bye.

That doesn’t mean that you must act like an <deleted> but it does mean that those around you must at least show respect. Try the diplomatic approach and when it fails then I suggest call her bluff – Pack a bag and tell your wife that you are going travelling in Thailand. No more money, no more funds until an understanding is reached. Let her come to you and see what happens. Remember, your situation is more akin to 1950’s Ireland, where a woman was expected to honour and obey her husband and be a housewife, whilst the man provided the security and finances. It wasn’t a marriage of equals as it is now a day when both spouses in general provide equally to a marriage.

I know it’s a bit late now, but a colleague of mine who decided for visa reasons to marry an uneducated, drop dead gorgeous Thai lady, did so, on the basis that the marriage and relationship world 100% respect Thai cultural norms. When it came time to offer sinsot, he arrived at her home town, met the parents, made an offer that reflected the girls standing in society (about 5% what the father was expecting), wasn’t interested in a prolonged negation, and returned to Bangkok the same night. Two days later his wife to be followed him and the relationship functions according to Thai cultural norms. It’s not something that would appeal to me, but if I ever was to decided to get with an uneducated Thai whom expected me to finance the relationship, then.......

[RedQualia]

Don't know the OP's location, nor his actual situation, other than the few details provided. There are different reasons for this sort of thing to happen, however. Yes, sometimes the parents arrange such, without regard to what the children might want. Matters of economics, social climbing on one or another's family's part, and such as that. The few examples I've seen of this sort of "marriage," however, have come down to the fact that little Somchai and Lek were getting it on out behind the lamyai trees. Lek's parents found out, because Somchai's brother's best friend saw it and told his parents, and now the whole village is talking about it. And so little Lek's mom and dad are insisting on a wedding, to save face.

Another situation I've run across is just that little Somchai and Lek have been at it for a while, and "are deeply, deeply in love," and so the parents give up fighting it... They resign themselves to "kids being kids," and begin to attempt damage control (something of a "supervised marriage," where the kids live together in a parents' house and can hopefully be prevented from making too much trouble for one another).

The "good news" (if any) is that such marriages are typically village weddings (ala, "broomstick weddings"), and are not legally sanctioned or recognized. That is, they dissolve quite easily, with the parties involved simply walking away from one another, without regard to any offspring. Which is to say, Somchai just splits, and typically, there is no matter of child support worried about. The offspring are of course, the mother's, but end up being raised by family elders. Typically, however, the kids later go on with their lives, without regard to this "marriage" thing, and hey -- no harm, no foul.

Or so my experiences with this sort of thing run, which may or may not match the OP's or anyone else's.

No idea whether the OP lives in a city or a village, or with city people, or with village people. City situations are usually different (more along the lines of what a foreigner might expect), and it should be possible to simply lock the doors, thereby preventing the son's friends from visiting his room when he isn't there. The friends might still come to do that, but they're going to have to ask respectfully before they get in. My experience in villages differs from this, however... All doors to all houses are typically left open. If you need to go to the can or shower or whatever, and the can at house A is in use, then try the can at house B, or house C. If you need a place to sleep, and house B is full, and house C isn't working out for whatever reason, then house A is probably a good place to go. If you prefer to cook at house D, then hey -- no reason you can't do that, whether the owner is there or not. People don't worry about theft at all, and it's not uncommon to see everything of any real value (usually not a lot, aside from the dozen oversize speakers attached to the karaoke console) outside on the patio. And if you want to borrow something, well hey... No problem. Everyone owns everything together, somehow. Maybe more polite to ask, but not strictly necessary.

Within this pattern of village life (or city life), however, you will find both polite people, and rude people. Could relate to upbringing, but it may well not, in any way at all. Could be they hate/distrust foreigners. Or not. Or people in general. Or not. Just as in Steinbeck's "East of Eden," one brother may be a great "salt of the earth" kind of guy, and the other may be a moody, troubled S.O.B. completely lacking in social graces, and unaware that they are so. People are people, most everywhere. Some are polite. Some are not. Meh.

Again, no real idea of the OP's circumstances, location, or anything, etc., etc., etc. Nor am I recommending the OP do one thing or another thing. Just adding a few thoughts that appear not to have been covered anywhere in this thread. They may or may not apply for the OP or anyone else.

Edited January 21, 2014 by RedQualia

[Travel Dude]

One thing I forgot. That the girl ignores you is totally unacceptable, she should at least wai you. That is the norm in the Thai families I know.

The fact that she does not greet or Wai you very disrespectful. She might think you are just a stupid farang... That no one of the That's around you correct her on this has perhaps something to do with their perception of you. You can't change that although you should make clear who is the boss. YOU are! That's also the culture of Thailand.

I just hope you are not seen as another ATM not noticing what's going on around him.

Good luck!

[DekDaeng]

One thing I forgot. That the girl ignores you is totally unacceptable, she should at least wai you. That is the norm in the Thai families I know.

Yes.

Tell her to wai, or not come. i.e. "get out, come back in, & wai me. & every time".

Also put a normal type lock on the front door - cannot be opened from outside w/o a key. So knock or ring doorbell is required.

Keys may get handed out - if so change key & barrel & make rules again.

Edited January 21, 2014 by DekDaeng

[mesquite]

OP, I feel for you as you seem like a nice guy who has tried to do the right thing. I notice you mention you worked in a "war torn" country. You also paid for the house your wife and everyone else is now living in. Both of these things would be considered admirable in, say, the US, but they are not cause for respect here.

You cannot be nice here. You have to be a dictator, benevolent or otherwise. I have learned this through personal experience. You must lay down the law in no uncertain terms. Each Thai is 50% charming human being and 50% farm animal. They must be ruled and no I'm not joking.

Like I say, I learned this from personal experience and now watch as men I know go through the same thing. You must be a dictator whether you like it or not. Either that or be relegated to a status lower than that of a family dog. Best of luck.

Edited January 21, 2014 by mesquite

[Toscano]

My wife's son 18yrs lived with a girl he met at work in Bangkok . The girl's parents insisted they get married , My wife mortgaged her house to make her

son's financial contribution . I hadn't met my wife at the time , but had I been in Thailand at the time , I should have stopped the marriage and made her son find his own accomodation . He left his wife after 18months and wanted to come home . I forbade my wife to have him living with her in the house I had rebuilt for her and sponginging off her the money I was sending monthly . He went to live with his grandfather , who one day came home to find him in bed

with a girl . He then moved in with the girl's family . They wanted a wedding and my wife asked me for the money . I refused saying he was already married ,was to young , had no money or job and no home of his own . Grandfather backed my view , saying that when a couple are already cohabiting they are

effectively already married .

[chuenyongman]

Agree with Randyoon. Good Idea. Leave and look around another province. If you are not married get away from being a walking ATM.

[flyingdoc]

Boo makes some salient points. I agree with 'Thai fever'. Read it together - she on the right hand page in Thai, and you the English equivalent on the left hand page. Some good insights into breaking down the cultural barriers!

[UglyBug]

This is the first time ever that I hear about arranged marriage in Thailand (been here for 20 years). Guess it must be something they do in Isan small villages? Never been there but I live in the central countryside in Thailand and as far as I know around here it is not how they do it.

I would send the son away to a boarding school or university in BKK or Chiengmai so he can see the real world around him and then it will probably change by itself somehow?

I have lived in Phetchabun since 2000 and have heard of quite a few arranged " marriages " and we are a long way from Isan some involving girls younger than 14 but again this is Thailand and their culture it would be wise to remember we are Aliens here ? I have raised my wifes daughter from 5 year old she is 20 this year her boyfriend is the same age and both go to Phetchabun Rajabhat University when he comes to our house he always " Wai's " and never comes inside the house at least not when I am home ?

[realenglish1]

Just say no the the funding of the marriage Tell her you object to it and its not your culture so they will have to find another way

A lot of these so called cultural things a dying on the vine regardless

Its your money not hers So simply tell her NO

Thanks it end of story

And make it clear to his so called girlfriend She had better show respect or not come in the house

I would think its because she does not know how to act around a FARANG not that she is being disrespectful So let her know

Edited January 21, 2014 by realenglish1

[louse1953]

My 30 year old brother in-law "married"a 14 year old,who promptly took off with the 20k worth of gold given to her as a bribe.Great.All this happened while i was away,working.Now he is "married" to a 17 year old.Sanctioned pedo's i call it. Arguing with wife is futile as they are brainwashed into this form of thinking.

[atyclb]

Find a non - peasant situation to live in

unless perhaps you are an anthropologist doing research on evolution

Edited January 21, 2014 by atyclb

[monkeycountry]

I agree with you whole heartedly, I've only been living here a little more than a month now. I am trying not to come across as the person who wants to change everything. That's why I feel guilty when I do bring something up. I have been to many other countries and know that it would be a mistake to compare cultures, I'm here to stay and I am going to make the best of it and enjoy myself. Thanks for your input.

Go lie on the couch, watch some tv, and teach the girl and her friends to bring you a fresh beer from the fridge and wai whenever they come into the house and see you on the couch. Further teach them to play either in their room(s) or outside, not in front of the tv. Do that, and everyone will be happy

Oh, and make sure either you or your wife tell both kids to wear condoms - and make sure they have some available. Your wife might be too shy to tell them, and the kids too shy to buy them.

Edited January 21, 2014 by monkeycountry

[NanLaew]

Find a non - pheasant situation to live in

unless perhaps you are an anthropologist doing research on evolution

You mean wait until after the 12th of August...? Edited January 21, 2014 by NanLaew

[salapau]

You need to think hard. I agree with others in that you should air your feelings to your wife now, telling her to instill some civility into the girl and her friends otherwise you'll never be regarded as anything other than a provider.

Take care though and I speak from personal experience. If you make too many hard and fast rules the girls will turn against you and this will have a domino effect in the local community, where at worst you and your wife will be isolated. They just cannot keep things to themselves, especially where a foreigner is concerned. This is one of my reasons for leaving Thailand this year on my own.

[MikeOwen]

The other alternative is to run as fast as you can & next time take more time, effort & care when deciding who you get involved with & what their family is like.

As a last resort , but give him a chance to put things right , if that fails then Boo

[VINCENT2012]

this situation is normal in thailand, but i am not sure if it is recognized by thai laws today.

if you are going to pay for the wedding you have to know that as an antic custom, the parents or the child has also to pay money to the family of the girl, that's why first the 2 families normally make a (party)meeting with food and drinks and then try to found an arangment about the dowry.if there is a money problem then the girl will not be able to get married until money is promised or given.as you are a farang i won't be surprised the price become a bit high.

also still in thailand it can be a problem for mariage if the boy or girl is coming from a poor family or caste and the status is diferent beetween them.

one thing my friend ,......it is not because you are paying everyting that you will change something, especially when you are a minority in this house full of people.a strong disagrement or dispute can be a cause of divorce where you are going to loose the property you paid for...and moral judgment is not a national speciality .

good day and good night

[FiftyTwo]

Privacy in your own home.

Walk around naked a lot.

1) The girl will be horrified, run off and not visit again.

2) The girl will be attracted, your wife will run her off, and she won't be allowed to visit again.

[atyclb]

Find a non - pheasant situation to live in

unless perhaps you are an anthropologist doing research on evolution

You mean wait until after the 12th of August...?

can you fill me in on the significance of aug 12 ?

[LUSHGOAT]

Had the same problem when I married my wife people would walk in open the fridge etc. so I blew a fuse and yes some Thai's are rude and ignorant and disrespectful because you are a Farang my feeling was we are like dog shit stuck to their shoe. To be quiet honest why did you marry a woman with 3 children you should have know you'd be asking for trouble. If your wife does not teach other people to respect you I think then she does not respect you. There are many more beautiful women in Thailand and with great respect for Farangs. My advice is to leave now before you get to much heart ache, life is too short to put up with the crap you are putting up with. As regards to your wife's son been promised to a 14 year old did you ever wonder if she didn't have you to pay for everything would this happen. As other people have posted and also what that Thai Lady said its is not your responsibility to pay for the said marriage its his fathers. Do yourself a favour while you still can and you still have your sanity Leave and dont look back your heart will heal and hopefully you will find the realThai lady you deserve. Good Luck and take care.

[atyclb]

UNiversal sound advice for many relationship related posts;

live alone and get a dog.

[FiftyTwo]

Find a non - pheasant situation to live in

unless perhaps you are an anthropologist doing research on evolution

You mean wait until after the 12th of August...?

can you fill me in on the significance of aug 12 ?

It's glorious!

[iancnx]

A very serious family meeting is in order, that is mum, her kids and you. NOT the girl, or the step father! Lay the law down in an amiable manner but be firm. List your expectations, and equally list was is unacceptable. I doubt you will be able to stop the marriage which will be a traditional arrangement as opposed to legal in the first instance. If sinsod dowry is mentioned for the marriage be clear that this is not your responsibility. Ensure they ALL realise you are the head of the household. Ensure they all realise that you are now retired and have no more income. You will be generous where possible in day to day running of the home, but forget the millionaire Farang dream. Reinforce this again and again until they get it! Don't cave in, stand your ground. Hug and kiss your wife and tell her you love her. Report back here if this doesn't work! Good luck!

Ps I love the advice on getting naked.... That will keep the outsiders in the Soi where they belong!

[atyclb]

Privacy in your own home.

Walk around naked a lot.

1) The girl will be horrified, run off and not visit again.

2) The girl will be attracted, your wife will run her off, and she won't be allowed to visit again.

What if the OP looks like brad pitts twin brother ????

[RedQualia]

You cannot be nice here. You have to be a dictator, benevolent or otherwise. I have learned this through personal experience. You must lay down the law in no uncertain terms. Each Thai is 50% charming human being and 50% farm animal. They must be ruled and no I'm not joking.

Quite a generalization.

Umm... No. I'm very far from being dictatorial with my Thai wife of seven years. I don't think I've ever had to "lay down the law in no uncertain terms," about anything. And I certainly wouldn't want a relationship in which I did.

But it is the case that generally, I've tried to avoid dating or marrying those who I think may have anything in common with livestock. The experiences of others may vary, of course.

[atyclb]

You cannot be nice here. You have to be a dictator, benevolent or otherwise. I have learned this through personal experience. You must lay down the law in no uncertain terms. Each Thai is 50% charming human being and 50% farm animal. They must be ruled and no I'm not joking.

Quite a generalization.

Umm... No. I'm very far from being dictatorial with my Thai wife of seven years. I don't think I've ever had to "lay down the law in no uncertain terms," about anything. And I certainly wouldn't want a relationship in which I did.

But it is the case that generally, I've tried to avoid dating or marrying those who I think may have anything in common with livestock. The experiences of others may vary, of course.

Come to think of it, i've heard a rumour the definitive book "gold standard" on thai farang relationships is not "thailand fever" or "something dancer" but it is "textbook of animal husbandry" and can be found at most veterinary medical schools