Conditions under which developers will return deposit.

[Guitar God]

We put 20k down on a house and then found one we liked better, 40 m2 bigger house and 200 talang wah instead of 100 for not all that much more money

The developer said he'd returned deposits to buyers who weren't able to get bank financing.

I thought I'd read there was a 7-10 day period where you could get a refund. We're still within this. Is this true?

If not, could she go to her bank and ask for more that what they'd loan her so she'd be denied a mortgage and then request a refund based on the criteria the developer said he had refunded deposits in the past?

I could just walk away but I'd prefer to get the 20k back if possible. Any experience with this or creative ideas

Edited January 16, 2014 by Guitar God

[trogers]

I could just walk away but I'd prefer to get the 20k back if possible. Any experience with this or creative ideas

I wonder about the purpose of a deposit. Any ideas?

[isawasnake]

If they don't finish on time, this gives you some leverage. You will have to read the contract for exact terms.

I wonder if they finished close to one time, and you inspected and told them you did not like this or that, and have them do something they wont be able to complete on time? Not the most fair option I'm sure, but could be worth a try.

[BEVUP]

No doubt the purpose of the deposit is to ensure you the rights to that house & not be cut out of sale but if you renege you will lose as they no doubt could of sold to someone else (as such call it a penalty fee )

I wonder the cost of house as 20,000 seems a bit high , My wife & i paid 5000 & then broke the deal as we were not ready yet, they were prepared to wait a little while but by the time we came back (1 yr later ) it was to long

We did buy a house in the same Moo Baan but it was a 2 storey place & a little more expensive ( but thought ok as had a little more land around house )

[Travelman868]

If they don't finish on time, this gives you some leverage. You will have to read the contract for exact terms.

I wonder if they finished close to one time, and you inspected and told them you did not like this or that, and have them do something they wont be able to complete on time? Not the most fair option I'm sure, but could be worth a try.

You pay deposit then change mind you lose deposit. End of story.

Anyway at the end of the day you will lose house to G/f (wife) family so 20000 baht, chicken feed.

[Guitar God]

A couple people seemed to have missed a few facts that I mentioned. There is a precedence already set for the return of the deposit. The developer told me that he had already refunded deposits when "the buyer's bank didn't approve the loan". I'm looking for ways to get a refund based around his criteria.

I also read here somewhere that there was a 7 or 10 day period where you could change your mind and get the deposit back.

A few more details, tomorrow another payment of 50k is due at which time a preliminary purchase agreement will be drawn up.

After that, payments of 20k per month are due until the house is finished in July when the mortgage is finalized, balance is paid in cash and the chanote is registered.

Them finishing late would be to late of a development in the process to get my 20k back, because I'd have already paid at least 50k more.

If I don't pay the 50k I'm assuming I'd forfit the 20k deposit. I'm assuming the 20k deposit was to hold it until the purchase agreement was signed.

I just left a car dealer who wouldn't take my money for deposit because they're not sure if the car would be ready in Feb or Mar so they said they'd call.

About the house deposit, could she go to the bank and ask for a extra mil knowing the bank would say no and then we could go back to the developer and say " the bank declined on the mortgage".

[isawasnake]

If they don't finish on time, this gives you some leverage. You will have to read the contract for exact terms.

I wonder if they finished close to one time, and you inspected and told them you did not like this or that, and have them do something they wont be able to complete on time? Not the most fair option I'm sure, but could be worth a try.

You pay deposit then change mind you lose deposit. End of story.

Anyway at the end of the day you will lose house to G/f (wife) family so 20000 baht, chicken feed.

That is not the end of the story. IF they complete the unit late, you are entitled to get your deposit back.

[isawasnake]

A couple people seemed to have missed a few facts that I mentioned. There is a precedence already set for the return of the deposit. The developer told me that he had already refunded deposits when "the buyer's bank didn't approve the loan". I'm looking for ways to get a refund based around his criteria.

I also read here somewhere that there was a 7 or 10 day period where you could change your mind and get the deposit back.

A few more details, tomorrow another payment of 50k is due at which time a preliminary purchase agreement will be drawn up.

After that, payments of 20k per month are due until the house is finished in July when the mortgage is finalized, balance is paid in cash and the chanote is registered.

Them finishing late would be to late of a development in the process to get my 20k back, because I'd have already paid at least 50k more.

If I don't pay the 50k I'm assuming I'd forfit the 20k deposit. I'm assuming the 20k deposit was to hold it until the purchase agreement was signed.

I just left a car dealer who wouldn't take my money for deposit because they're not sure if the car would be ready in Feb or Mar so they said they'd call.

About the house deposit, could she go to the bank and ask for a extra mil knowing the bank would say no and then we could go back to the developer and say " the bank declined on the mortgage".

I guess you could try that, maybe somebody on here will have an idea?

I think the real call here is to realize you made a mistake, and give up the 20k, but if I really wanted to get it back, I'd probably go out to the site and try to come up with something (something that may be perfectly legit if you look closely enough), saying "this is not how I imagined it blah blah" or "this is not built to the promised quality" and see what happens.

Edited January 16, 2014 by isawasnake

[stigvinck]

So you're asking advice here on wether to lie to the bank to get declined on the mortgage so you can then go to the developer and lie to him, just to get your money back?

Or am I missing something???

[movsrus]

The developer said you can get the money back if you can't get a mortgage but what does the contract say. I have learned in my short time here in Thailand that unless it is written down and agreed to a lot of what I am told is BS. Make sure the contract you signed when you gave the 20K allows for a return- don't take the developer at his word.

The other thing to do is see if he will negotiate with you and return the bulk of your deposit with you paying him a convenience fee. Once you start trying to game the system to make it look like you can't get a mortgage then you are in a situation where the developer may find out and go after you in court for fraud.

In the end, he made you an offer and you accepted it. Trying to beat him out of it by deception is just as bad as a Thai trying to gouge you for something. Remember, what goes around comes around.

[Guitar God]

When I asked about whether he'd had anyone change their mind it was in reference to the large lot we wanted that someone else just put a deposit on. I was trying to figure out the likelihood of that buyer changing his mind so we could get the larger lot. That's when he offered that he had refunded deposits to a few people who couldn't get financing.

If we go back and say we changed our mind and found something with more land from a developer who didn't want as much cash as soon. He'll probably just say good luck with your new house and thanks for the 20k, we'll sell it to one of the other 3 people interested in it whose left their numbers after you put down the deposit.

If we go there and say we can't swing it, without going into details about finding something else with more land and better terms, and tell him I just got a huge tax bill (which I did) and she's asking the bank if she can borrow more, which she will, (but not 1M more) he might be more amenable to a refund or partial refund especially since he's still selling the place and making as much as he would have in the first place.

[Guitar God]

I'm guessing it was to hold the place until we signed the purchase agreement.

I could just walk away but I'd prefer to get the 20k back if possible. Any experience with this or creative ideas

I wonder about the purpose of a deposit. Any ideas?

[DepDavid]

Really...you want money back based on presedence.....in Thailand.....5555555. Money out of your hand is gone. IMHO.

[isawasnake]

I don't see what is the harm in trying to get your money back, even assuming he is in the wrong. Cmon, stuff like this is done everyday, but the type of people you and I admire too. Can you imagine what the world would be like if every time a businessman said to himself "well, we could make a huge profit, but it really would not be right". To me, an analogy is you know a dealership paid 100k for a car, and you get him to 90k. "You know that guy can't make a profit, what is wrong with you"? Cmon.

[rotary]

Cheap lesson learned, take the loss and be a better informed buyer next time you start making major purchases. Put yourself in the seller position. Buying is a two way street, the seller made what he felt was a reasonable offer. I assume you thought it was a reasonable offer or you would not put the deposit down. Stick with the deal you made or forfeit the B20K.

[Gulfsailor]

Without a contract stating conditions relating to said deposit, it is very hard to predict where you stand. A judge could rule one way or the other; 1) no contract yet means no conditions set on the deposit, so will have to be paid back in full. Or also likely 2) with paying the deposit you agreed to the purchase, even though no contract was signed yet. Thus you will have to buy the house.

In ruling 2 as a courtesy most sellers would then be lenient, and allow you to buy of your agreement, valued at paid deposit. Sometimes more, sometimes less. But he doesn't have to. If seller believes he cannot sell the product to someone else, or just wants to screw you, you are in for the full purchase.

So lesson; never pay any deposit unless it comes with a set of conditions on paper, because paying a deposit could be considered as legally binding intent to purchase. Ps. Better to call it a guarantee or right to purchase in stead of calling it deposit. A guarantee or right you can let pass, only making you lose that amount. But you can't be held to go through with full purchase.

[unended]

You are asking for creative ideas...here I come !

Ask the developer to provide a BANK GUARANTEE for the down-payments to be made up to the date of registration of your ownership at the land office.

Just ask the Developer the following question : what would happen to the moneys advanced were you ( the developer ) to go bankrupt before the ownership changeover date ?...They will fumble, look the other way, serve tea, smile, throw smoke and screens, more tea... but you keep pressing the point...This is a legal point that developers are aware of but which they find it convenient not to bring up so as to unduly avail themselves of the moneys deposited to finance the construction and avoid administrative hustle. However, once they realize you are intent on having this point satisfied, alarm bells turn on in their minds and are most glad to return the deposit in order to get rid of you as quickly as possible. I surmise that they would only accept to provide bank guarantees if they found themselves in a dire economic environment with few buyers.

I should know by now... I have done it on two occasions and succeeded in both !

[jacko45k]

So may people come on here complaining about Thai landlords not returning deposits.

And here we are deviously considering how to falsely force the return of one that they are legitimately entitled to keep.

If there is a 7-10 day cooling period stipulated in the contract, (or in Thai law) that is fine, go for it, but the other proposed idea seems to be a falsehood, surely she should only need ask sufficient to fund the purchase.

Respect your commitments.

[Guitar God]

Well I have, and here's my experience from the seller's position. I advertised a rare and expensive guitar, someone was interested but didn't have the cash. He gave me 100 and said he'd be back next weekend with the cash. In the meantime,I received calls from other interested parties and told them, "sorry it's sold". Before the weekend the guy who put down a deposit called and said he could afford it.

I l looked at my caller ID and called the first person who called after I'd taken a deposit and offered them the guitar. They came and bought it. I called back the guy who placed a deposit and told told him to come over and pick up his 100.

I got what I wanted for the guitar, cost me a couple cents for a phone call and everyone was happy and I felt good about it.

On the other hand, I once paid for an expensive ad to sell a bike, took a deposit and the guy changed his mind a few weeks later. I'd cancelled the ad and didn't have any other buyers waiting. I kept his deposit and still lost money.

We've looked at many houses, the selection where we're looking is poor and this was the first one both of us liked ( except that it was the last of two houses in the development and had no room for extra land for future expansion/pool. etc.) The rep for the company said someone else was coming to look at it the next day, the one with more land that we wanted sold the day before so there was a little pressure to decide. I don't expect any sympathy from them but I'm not going to feel bad if a multi-billion company doesn't make an extra 20k on a house either.

I understand the concept of a deposit. But it's a 60% completed tract home with other buyers in the wings. It's not a custom home I designed and ordered with purple bricks and a guitar-shaped pool or anything. The price is reasonable, our situation is what changed. We found another house with terms that fit my revised schedule that we like better.

If my clients can't complete their order and it doesn't cost me time or money, I cut them some slack. Seeing as I now have an unexpected 2.3m฿ tax bill that needs to be paid before the rest of the money on this house is due and I found another house where the balance is due later, I was hoping they would do the same.

He already said he'd willing returned initial deposits, I just don't want to go there and have him say " unexpected tax bill, that doesn't count but if you would have told me she needed another 1m on the mortgage because of cash flow problems but the bank said "no", then I'd gladly have returned your deposit ".

I'm just going to go back today and explain the situation and see what he says. I either get none, some or all of it back.

Cheap lesson learned, take the loss and be a better informed buyer next time you start making major purchases. Put yourself in the seller position. Buying is a two way street, the seller made what he felt was a reasonable offer. I assume you thought it was a reasonable offer or you would not put the deposit down. Stick with the deal you made or forfeit the B20K.

[DepDavid]

Good for you coming to that decision. Honesty is best policy. If it works out then great. If not its a lesson learned and in the end you get what you want.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Guitar God]

Like I said, I'd read here there was a 7 or 10 day "cooling off" period. I was hoping for confirmation so I could go back and tell them my situation changed since last week and I'd like to cancel based on that.

Alternatively, since they've returned deposits, I was hoping to qualify under that. If the one and only reason they ever return deposits is if the bank declines a mortgage then lucky day for them, they get to keep 20k and I get nothing.

We never said how much of the payment is cash and how much was financed.

We could buy it now if she could get an extra mil but I doubt they would and that denial would fit the conditions under which he already said he'd return deposits. I'm not screwing the company out of anything, asking a bank for more that what she probably qualifies for doesn't seem any more devious than them saying " you need to decide now because someone else is on their way here to view it. ". And yes, I realize that's the oldest trick in a salesman's book but after missing out on three houses by one day in the last few weeks, I did what I did.

There is a difference between me deciding not to buy and a landlord keeping a security deposit.

In that situation the landlord is up xxx฿ and the tenant is out xxx฿.

In this situation, the developer is up 20k and I'm down 20k and they still sell the place for ฿4m either way

All they lost is an hour showing the place and a few minutes taking money and signing a paper. They spend more time showing houses to people they don't sell to.

In my business I've had people place an order, change their order, add to their order, put their order on hold. Cancel their order, place a new order and then cancel that one. Wasting hours of my staff's time. How much to I get of their money ? Zero. What can I do about it? Nothing.

So may people come on here complaining about Thai landlords not returning deposits.

And here we are deviously considering how to falsely force the return of one that they are legitimately entitled to keep.

If there is a 7-10 day cooling period stipulated in the contract, (or in Thai law) that is fine, go for it, but the other proposed idea seems to be a falsehood, surely she should only need ask sufficient to fund the purchase.

Respect your commitments.

[Guitar God]

Since they've already sold and received money for 45 of the 48 houses in the development I'm guessing they would ask why I was worried about that since they'd already made almost 90% of their profit already. I think it would be different if it was an unknown company with a trailer house on a field of leveled but empty land.

I was hoping there was a cooling off period but no one else seems to have seen anything about that. Second option was using a technicality. i.e. have her ask a bank for more that they'd probably give her but the consensus here seems to be that I'm being devious and dishonest trying to come out even within the established guidelines so I'm just going to explain the situation and either he's a fair person like me or he just wants an extra 20k no matter what. .

You are asking for creative ideas...here I come !

Ask the developer to provide a BANK GUARANTEE for the down-payments to be made up to the date of registration of your ownership at the land office.

Just ask the Developer the following question : what would happen to the moneys advanced were you ( the developer ) to go bankrupt before the ownership changeover date ?...They will fumble, look the other way, serve tea, smile, throw smoke and screens, more tea... but you keep pressing the point...This is a legal point that developers are aware of but which they find it convenient not to bring up so as to unduly avail themselves of the moneys deposited to finance the construction and avoid administrative hustle. However, once they realize you are intent on having this point satisfied, alarm bells turn on in their minds and are most glad to return the deposit in order to get rid of you as quickly as possible. I surmise that they would only accept to provide bank guarantees if they found themselves in a dire economic environment with few buyers.

I should know by now... I have done it on two occasions and succeeded in both !

[jacko45k]

Like I said, I'd read here there was a 7 or 10 day "cooling off" period. I was hoping for confirmation so I could go back and tell them my situation changed since last week and I'd like to cancel based on that.

Alternatively, since they've returned deposits, I was hoping to qualify under that. If the one and only reason they ever return deposits is if the bank declines a mortgage then lucky day for them, they get to keep 20k and I get nothing.

We never said how much of the payment is cash and how much was financed.

We could buy it now if she could get an extra mil but I doubt they would and that denial would fit the conditions under which he already said he'd return deposits. I'm not screwing the company out of anything, asking a bank for more that what she probably qualifies for doesn't seem any more devious than them saying " you need to decide now because someone else is on their way here to view it. ". And yes, I realize that's the oldest trick in a salesman's book but after missing out on three houses by one day in the last few weeks, I did what I did.

There is a difference between me deciding not to buy and a landlord keeping a security deposit.

In that situation the landlord is up xxx฿ and the tenant is out xxx฿.

In this situation, the developer is up 20k and I'm down 20k and they still sell the place for ฿4m either way

All they lost is an hour showing the place and a few minutes taking money and signing a paper. They spend more time showing houses to people they don't sell to.

In my business I've had people place an order, change their order, add to their order, put their order on hold. Cancel their order, place a new order and then cancel that one. Wasting hours of my staff's time. How much to I get of their money ? Zero. What can I do about it? Nothing.

So may people come on here complaining about Thai landlords not returning deposits.

And here we are deviously considering how to falsely force the return of one that they are legitimately entitled to keep.

If there is a 7-10 day cooling period stipulated in the contract, (or in Thai law) that is fine, go for it, but the other proposed idea seems to be a falsehood, surely she should only need ask sufficient to fund the purchase.

Respect your commitments.

Well your answer was quite fair, although when it happens to you it is......Wasting hours of my staff's time.

But for them.....All they lost is an hour showing the place and a few minutes taking money and signing a paper.

Perhaps also a member of their staff will have to lose a commission if your deposit is returned.

Anyhow, I still hope you get your money back........I am off to view a Pattaya condo located in Na Jomtiem which is already 40% sold despite the land being untouched at this time.

Edited January 17, 2014 by jacko45k

[unended]

That the developer has already sold most of the houses is, from your standpoint , irrelevant in relation to obtaining a bank guarantee. This claim is not a dishonest one, quite the contrary : it is a preventive measure against the developer's possible newfound dishonesty and self-serving attitude with other people's moneys. I still remember the financial meltdown in Thailand in the nineties, with countless developers pocketing the downpayments they received and which the payers never recovered. My proposal is an antidote for that happening again.As it happens, this absolutely justified request can be used in your circumstances to obtain your deposit back. Were the developer to provide the guarantee, then obviously the ground for the return of the deposit disappears, but in the likely case he is not willing, put your conscience at rest by resorting to this demand to get it back as you will have exposed his own dishonesty, only vastly more devious on account of impact and intent !

Since they've already sold and received money for 45 of the 48 houses in the development I'm guessing they would ask why I was worried about that since they'd already made almost 90% of their profit already. I think it would be different if it was an unknown company with a trailer house on a field of leveled but empty land.

I was hoping there was a cooling off period but no one else seems to have seen anything about that. Second option was using a technicality. i.e. have her ask a bank for more that they'd probably give her but the consensus here seems to be that I'm being devious and dishonest trying to come out even within the established guidelines so I'm just going to explain the situation and either he's a fair person like me or he just wants an extra 20k no matter what. .

You are asking for creative ideas...here I come !

Ask the developer to provide a BANK GUARANTEE for the down-payments to be made up to the date of registration of your ownership at the land office.

Just ask the Developer the following question : what would happen to the moneys advanced were you ( the developer ) to go bankrupt before the ownership changeover date ?...They will fumble, look the other way, serve tea, smile, throw smoke and screens, more tea... but you keep pressing the point...This is a legal point that developers are aware of but which they find it convenient not to bring up so as to unduly avail themselves of the moneys deposited to finance the construction and avoid administrative hustle. However, once they realize you are intent on having this point satisfied, alarm bells turn on in their minds and are most glad to return the deposit in order to get rid of you as quickly as possible. I surmise that they would only accept to provide bank guarantees if they found themselves in a dire economic environment with few buyers.

I should know by now... I have done it on two occasions and succeeded in both !

[Guitar God]

I'd be happy to give the rep his cut of the deposit. A fair amount for the 90 minutes we were there is fine . The one case I mentioned was well over 8 hours of time between the reps time and accounting generating proofread, changing them, making invoices, canceling them etc. In the end the rep got nothing and I had to pay their hours.

Good luck with your viewing. I'm sure you'll be reading the contract carefully and getting any promises in writing.

[Guitar God]

Outcome: I went to the office, told him my story and he said that since its only been a week he "had" to give me my deposit back. I said "thanks" and it was very nice if him to do that and to keep 5k for his troubles.

[DepDavid]

Excellent out come for both!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[donx]

Guitar God, when you say he "had" to give you your deposit back, are you saying there is a law that required him to give it back? I'm asking so others reading this thread, including myself, can know if there is or isn't a legal "cooling off" period when providing a deposit.

[Guitar God]

I think it still remains a mystery. I didn't ask what he meant but I took it more of as a personal choice due to the short amount of time rather than a legal obligation.

If the situation were reversed, I would have done the same thing. I probably would have said "should" rather than "have to".

There was no mention of law or regulation requiring him to return the deposit. I still think it was on TV where I saw a mention of a 7-10 day time period where you could change your mind.