Divorcing my Thai wife at an Amphur. No lawyer involvement.

[aussiejon1604]

Hi all.

Could anyone offer up some quick advice as to the process of divorcing my Thai wife at our local Amphur?

After we married in the village we attended an Amphur in Bangkok before heading back to where we once lived together. This process was easy enough completed.

As we don't need any lawyers involvement, can I please be advised on whether the divorce is as easy as the original marriage registration and what documents I should be taking with me?

I was originally on a "O" visa but this has since expired and I am currently on an ED-visa. Am I to believe my visa will be totally unaffected???

Thanks

[Wonka]

If you can read Thai, read the document carefully, before you sign. If not get it translated.

At least check that there are no amounts per month, you oblige yourself to pay your wife in x years.

[wym]

Totally straightforward other than the language issue.

Walk in, the bureaucrat discusses what you two have agreed to wrt alimony, custody child support, writes it down on a piece of paper you both sign it it gets stamped and you walk out free of each other.

Easy peasy.

In my case the guy was incredulous my ex wasn't asking for anything from me and also signed over the kids completely, in effect giving up all legal rights as a mother. "Are you sure you understand you won't be able to x, y and z". She kept saying yes confirmed she was doing it all of her own free will and eventually he shrugged "up to you" and we were done.

But note that this process doesn't meet all the normal criteria overseas, so if your wife gets you into court back home you may very well have to fight it all out from scratch.

The only thing that comes close in the US is a "termination of parental rights", and can be pretty involved to get granted even if she agrees.

[elliottm]

good point wym, a quick'n'easy at the local amphur may NOT be recognised at your home country, particularly UK/other common law countries that require an observed decree absolute where it may be necessary to involve lawyers (even for an agreed settlement) and a certified translation thereafter.

[realenglish1]

Its very easy to get a divorce at the Amphor. Just go with your wife and sign a amphor document stating its a divorce.

If there are no documents that she made up that she wants you to sign it is a simple process to do

I did and the divorce was instant Just government documents you don't need translated. Just agree to the divorce. If she has some docs she wants you to sign get them translated

Other than that nothing more

Good luck with your divorce

[In Search of Space]

good point wym, a quick'n'easy at the local amphur may NOT be recognised at your home country, particularly UK/other common law countries that require an observed decree absolute where it may be necessary to involve lawyers (even for an agreed settlement) and a certified translation thereafter.

Is it best to get divorced in UK rather than Thailand ? I was stupid enough to marry at amphur office (embassy would only give resident visa if we married), then did it again at registry office in UK ! But she wants to stay in Thailand, so can I get a UK divorce, recognised in Thailand if she remains & what if she refuses to cooperate ?

[Mario2008]

At the OP, the amphur divorce is just as easy as the marriage was. bring two witnesses that are not family members and bring the marriage certificates and of course your passport.

if on an extension of stay other than marriage, your permission to stay is not affected.

At in search of space:

it is much quicker and cheaper to divorce in Thailand at the amphur (10 minutes job, without need or lawyers) if you both agree. If she doesn't agree you can file for divorce in the UK. (In a Thai court you can only divorce on one of the reasons mentioned in the law).

You only married once and that was in Thailand. Your UK-marriage has no meaning as you were already married according to both Thailand and the UK.

[peteralex]

good point wym, a quick'n'easy at the local amphur may NOT be recognised at your home country, particularly UK/other common law countries that require an observed decree absolute where it may be necessary to involve lawyers (even for an agreed settlement) and a certified translation thereafter.

Apart from other compulsory requirements of "The International Private Law", a so-called Private Divorce will NOT be recegognized in European States, only divorces by court sentence are acknoledgeable, provided that the law is of a constitutional state, or, established according to the law of religious communities, for ex. muslim law.

It's a very complicated matter, I went through the attempt of acknoledgment, however, unsuccessfully.

[BWPattaya]

Simple. If you both agree that there are no issues around children or property then it is easy. You will both be asked individually if you have children together, then you will be asked if you own anything together. Remember that property bought before the marriage doesn't count, only property bought whilst you were legally married. If you both answer these questions and confirm there are no issues the regiistrar will proceed. Present the original marriage documents, ones that were given to each of you when you got married, the information about the divorce is recorded and you pay the 240 Bt.

If you have lost or misplaced one of the original certificates then go to the nearest police station, report the loss and pay 20 Bt for a police report. That report will be accepted in lieu of the original certificate.

[wym]

WRT international aspects of doing your divorce this way - I have only researched the US side.

The amphoe non-contested divorce IS a valid government-sanctioned official divorce and should be recognized by any other government, here the process is simply "registering" it. However, as part of that process, the ex should get notified and given an opportunity to speak up, and IF she has resources to travel to your home country and retain attorneys etc then of course there can be issues.

In the US that especially pertains to child custody, and in fact the welfare of the children at any given time will ALWAYS trump any legalistic issues, it is not possible to make any kind of contract agreement wrt custody that the courts will honor. But they will take her willingness to sign away her rights as evidence to be balanced along with the rest.

The ONLY iron-clad assurance wrt custody is the termination of parental rights process, and that is customarily only done when the non-custodial parent is a danger to the kids, or completely out of the picture for years and years not showing any interest. And of course easier if - in addition to those circumstances - she is willing to officially agree, signing affidavits and/or a make a video record. Child support services will be asked to investigate, interview the children etc and give a report to the judge.

This is an area of law - international complications of divorce and family custody - where there aren't many well-experienced lawyers. Best is to inquire among the diplomatic community in your country's capital city, going rate in NYC is $300 per hour with a $6,000 retainer up front.

[Emster23]

Be sure her id card matches both in name and that she is registered as residing in that location (my wife "forgot" to do that, so took an extra couple of hours running around by her). Other than that, much easier than getting married imho.

"Why did the farang marry the Thai woman?" "Because it felt so good when he got divorced".

[apiwan]

Mine was easy mate,

Go there if you both agree alls good,

I had kids and property, the property we said we would agree on, the kids were in my sole custody,

Because I was a fallang the head of the office Insisted the papers were translated,and so did I, because the kids were involved,

Very,very important,

Took a day with translation, but all good,

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[wym]

Be sure her id card matches both in name and that she is registered as residing in that location (my wife "forgot" to do that, so took an extra couple of hours running around by her). Other than that, much easier than getting married imho.

"Why did the farang marry the Thai woman?" "Because it felt so good when he got divorced".

We got divorced in the same khaet office where we got married. Neither had anything to do with where her house registration is, as just like most Isaan in Bangkok she hadn't actually lived there for many years.

I'd be very surprised to hear that factor actually is relevant to the legal status of the divorce (or the marriage).

[Farma]

Be sure her id card matches both in name and that she is registered as residing in that location (my wife "forgot" to do that, so took an extra couple of hours running around by her). Other than that, much easier than getting married imho.

"Why did the farang marry the Thai woman?" "Because it felt so good when he got divorced".

I had no problems with the residing location but her ID card must be up to date as per the Amphur records.

I know of a few women who indicated they would change their name on marriage but didn't. The Amphur required them to update their ID cards before proceeding with the divorce.

[In Search of Space]

At the OP, the amphur divorce is just as easy as the marriage was. bring two witnesses that are not family members and bring the marriage certificates and of course your passport.

if on an extension of stay other than marriage, your permission to stay is not affected.

At in search of space:

it is much quicker and cheaper to divorce in Thailand at the amphur (10 minutes job, without need or lawyers) if you both agree. If she doesn't agree you can file for divorce in the UK. (In a Thai court you can only divorce on one of the reasons mentioned in the law).

You only married once and that was in Thailand. Your UK-marriage has no meaning as you were already married according to both Thailand and the UK.

Thank you for the information Mario. So I need to do a deal with the wife, we have property in Thailand and the UK, but of course I was dumb enough to put our UK house in joint names, been married 26 years, but she has gone psycho ! She recently sold some property (which I paid for) & on advice of her friends has hung on to the dosh, won't even tell me how much it was sold for, just says she is rich lady now.

[wym]

My condolences for your troubles, just goes to show so many guys say "I've been married for X years, no problems I got myself a good one", and at least in my head I always say "so far anyway".

From my experience you would be wise to play hardball in outward negotiations, but in your most secret heart of hearts know that it will actually be better to concede more than you think is fair and get a settlement done without lawyers and court proceedings.

So many of these battles leave both parties poor and all the lawyers rich.

And all the rest of you guys out there, if you come into a marriage with a lot more property than your wife, no need to even let her know what's there much less start sharing it out as if you were in a "normal" western marriage of equals. Need to know basis. . .

Be fair, but don't be a sucker.

[aussiejon1604]

Be sure her id card matches both in name and that she is registered as residing in that location (my wife "forgot" to do that, so took an extra couple of hours running around by her). Other than that, much easier than getting married imho.

"Why did the farang marry the Thai woman?" "Because it felt so good when he got divorced".

Amen to your last comment. It will definitely go down well with some alcohol and a bar girl who understands she will go home when the job is done.

[Mario2008]

At the OP, the amphur divorce is just as easy as the marriage was. bring two witnesses that are not family members and bring the marriage certificates and of course your passport.

if on an extension of stay other than marriage, your permission to stay is not affected.

At in search of space:

it is much quicker and cheaper to divorce in Thailand at the amphur (10 minutes job, without need or lawyers) if you both agree. If she doesn't agree you can file for divorce in the UK. (In a Thai court you can only divorce on one of the reasons mentioned in the law).

You only married once and that was in Thailand. Your UK-marriage has no meaning as you were already married according to both Thailand and the UK.

Thank you for the information Mario. So I need to do a deal with the wife, we have property in Thailand and the UK, but of course I was dumb enough to put our UK house in joint names, been married 26 years, but she has gone psycho ! She recently sold some property (which I paid for) & on advice of her friends has hung on to the dosh, won't even tell me how much it was sold for, just says she is rich lady now.

As property is involved, get a lawyer to draw up any agreement you might come to agree with.

And keep evidence your wife sold property without your consent or even knowledge and doesn't share the profits. You could have her have that will she agrees to give you the UK-property.

[elzach]

If, in addition to the procedures and details of the divorce, the people here gave us the reasons for the divorce (as in Search of Space did), this may serve as a warning to many other threads about "I found my dream girl in Thailand after 2 months and we are getting married...".

Which of course may prevent future threads like this one here.

Edited January 20, 2014 by elzach

[apiwan]

If, in addition to the procedures and details of the divorce, the people here gave us the reasons for the divorce (as in Search of Space did), this may serve as a warning to many other threads about "I found my dream girl in Thailand after 2 months and we are getting married...".

Which of course may prevent future threads like this one here.

That's the thing with this forum, most poster have a stereotype of all falangs and also Thai girls,

Not having a go on you, but there's guys who don't want to go to bar beers and sit and drink their life away from dawn to dawn,

I met my ex wife then got married after 2years after 13 yrs in all we divorced,

This guy married for 18 yrs and then divorced,

My ex wasn't a bar girl ,probably is now though,555,

My first visit to thailand was 27 yrs ago, came with friend went to nana ,hated it and all the scene round there,

Went to koh pang Ghan and was happy,

All Thai people can not be judged by our past experiences ,

ie, my friend got mugged in London by 4black guys,that does not mean all black people should be tarred with the same brush,

No pun intended,

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[7by7]

good point wym, a quick'n'easy at the local amphur may NOT be recognised at your home country, particularly UK/other common law countries that require an observed decree absolute where it may be necessary to involve lawyers (even for an agreed settlement) and a certified translation thereafter.

I cannot say for other countries, but for the UK since 1988 a foreign divorce is legally recognised, provided that:

a. the divorce is effective under the law of the country in which it was obtained; and

b. at the date of the commencement of the proceedings either party to the marriage was

i. habitually resident in the country in which the divorce was obtained; or

ii. domiciled in that country; or

iii. a national of that country.

There are some foreign divorces, e.g. a bare Talaq divorce, where other conditions need to be met for the divorce to be recognised in the UK.

See Part 2. Divorce overseas of this Home Office document.

Note that even if you divorce in Thailand, your ex could still sue you in the UK courts for a share of your UK assets. If they did, then it would, of course, be up to the court to decide what, if anything, they would be entitled to.

Addendum; As an aside, a divorce at the Thai embassy in London is legal in Thailand, but not in the UK. Even though an embassy is technically foreign soil, all divorces in the UK must be done via the courts to be legal in the UK.

Edited January 31, 2014 by 7by7

[wym]

Critical point here - the FACT of the divorce is recognized. However the TERMs of the settlement, not only as noted above financially, but ESPECIALLY wrt to child custody, can always be re-visited if the opposition gets into your jurisdiction with resources for lawyers.

And from my experience wrt US law, suspect something similar is the case in most western so-called liberal democracies, it is all too easy for a judge to take the woman's side, especially if she's a lot younger and can paint herself as naive having been taken advantage of.

A Thai "full custody" arrangement can allow the custodial parent to relocate without permission, deny visitation rights etc, not so back home.

At any time the mother could re-visit custody issues, and the judge and Child Services will make a determination AT THAT TIME based on the best interests of the children. It is NOT POSSIBLE to make a prenup, postnup whatever contract IN ADVANCE wrt custody issues.

The ONLY solid protection is to successfully have a Termination of Parental Rights executed.

[Mario2008]

You can in general not just ask for a revision of the child custody. There must be sufficient grounds to consider such appeal. A judge will not give a new judgement based on the same circumstances. New circumstances warrenting a change must be presented.

[7by7]

A Thai "full custody" arrangement can allow the custodial parent to relocate without permission, deny visitation rights etc, not so back home.

Depends on where 'back home' is!

So far the OP has been given advice from an American viewpoint (although I understand that such matters can vary widely from state to state) and a British one.

But his user name suggests he is Australian.

The Thai law will be the same regardless; but what about Australian law?

Is there no one from Oz who can advise?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I had a BKK Thai attorney recently tell me that some district offices in BKK won't grant administrative divorces to farang-Thai couples, and thus requires them to proceed in court.

I've never heard anything of that before. Anyone have any insight on that point?

Edited February 3, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Mario2008]

Never heard of this and would be a negligence on part of the registar in the performance of their duty. I believe can lead to dismissal and even prosecution.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I had a BKK Thai attorney recently tell me that some district offices in BKK won't grant administrative divorces to farang-Thai couples, and thus requires them to proceed in court.

I've never heard anything of that before. Anyone have any insight on that point?

Well, that was one piece of legal advice dispensed a pair of Thai lawyers at supposedly one of the reputable, international law firms here in BKK. And it sounded from the way the two attorneys talked about it, that it was a case that they themselves had been personally involved in.

I guess I should hope, that the other family law advice they had to offer was better than what they had to say on that one item.