To Barack Obama: Mr President, some facts you should know about the Thai political crisis

[geriatrickid]

She lost me at "The Thaksin authoritarian government, elected through vote-rigging...". You want to

make a case, make a case. Don't lie.

Uhh, I don't want to cast aspersions on a profession, but she does engage in commercial litigation, and it's a field of law known for "tossing as much out and seeing what sticks.".

[jcicero]

Great letter, but unlikely to be given much notice.

Yea.....Obama doesn't even know what's going on in the U. S.

[jayjay49]

Maybe true, but corruption and abuse of power are in the Thai political culture unfortunately. Abhisit and Suthep are not exactly clean of corruption either. Their families have benefitted from their political careers. In that way the Thai society is sick and next to that Thailand is the only 'democracy' in the world where the monarchy CANNOT be discussed and that indicates the democratic-level of the Thai society.

[KimoMax]

Obama and his Government could care less about dictatorial foreign governments.

He is like two peas in a pod to Mr T's style of doing things his way regardless of the people.

The US has a long history of preferring a friendly government over the rights of the people governed by that government and Obama has continued that unpleasant tradition, it's true. The US will do as the US thinks is best for the USA, as it did in Thailand in the 1940s, 1950s, 1960s and 1970s when it supported far worse regimes than anything the PT might represent, ahead of any democratic process. The United States failures to support the democratic processes in Thailand over those decades - preferring to support ruthless strongmen who were allies in the proxy cold wars - is a primary reason Thailand is in the mess it's in now. So, no Thaksin is not "the most tyrannical and dictatorial leader in history" even in Thai terms.

It's incredible how a person can be so educated (as implied by a law degree) and yet so oblivious to Thai history.

President Obama himself, personally and Politicaly could care less.

My point is/was that as Snig said "the US will do what is in the US's best interest".

President Obama will surely not make any comments about Thailand. He will leave that up to his State Dept. and those involved with US-Thai affairs and interests.

Currently on the World Stage, Thailand is only a small internal problem compared to many other Civil uprisings in many Countries around the World.

Bluntly said; The problems in Thailand are 'small potato's" compared to other world conflicts.

[Gulfsailor]

This is a great letter, please help it to be disseminated to all other foreign media and also can the US Government stop minding its own business and get its own country properly first especially its own economic policies. The people of US should start a demonstration against this garbage congressman Michael Turner and his family and croynies as he does not seem to be serving his own American People and their welfare but getting his nose involved in the butts of other people's <deleted> which is not his problem or issue. They should ousts this garbage and also check on all of his finances and businesses and even his families, I am sure that they will find something from a garbage like this.

You obviously don't know much about the Congressman do you? He has an impeccable record, consistently rates highly of the ethics scorecard and has received praise for his revitalization program when he was Mayor of Dayton. No one has ever accused him of wrongdoing.

Had you made an effort to see what congressional committees he chairs and sits on, you would have seen that he is indeed serving the American people. I suggest you do your research before you call someone of his background and reputation "garbage". Who are you to comment anyway? Do you know anything about the Congressman's voting record or the causes that eh has been active in? NO? I didn't think so.

I agree that there is no evidence that this congressman is serving anyone but the American people. However, that certainly doesn't mean that his American backed interests aren't opposite Thai interests.

He is US chairman of the house armed services tactical air and land forces subcommittee. US wants a base in Thailand. Thai military doesn't want it. You do the math what's going on.

[Jingthing]

Thai folks, the USA is a politically divided country as well.

Don't be concerned, President Obama, a democrat, isn't not going to be influenced by a letter from a lowly congressperson from the OPPOSITION party!

The republican controlled house of representatives of the United States, where this blowhard congressperson comes from, and I agree there is no chance he understands ANYTHING about Thai politics, is less popular than COCKROACHES.

I reckon some Thai-American in his district called him up and told him it would be a no brainer PR stunt to "support democracy."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/08/congress-approval-rating-nickelback-cockroaches_n_2435601.html

Edited January 20, 2014 by Jingthing

[DocN]

Khun Vanina

now you have told the whole world things, we all know and on which mostly we all can agree upon, why don't you tell us something totally new.

We all know, what you are AGAINST...but what actually are you FOR and HOW do you want to achieve it?

Yep...I know: you are for democracy!
If what you you have now is no democracy (which I totally agree with...only for totally different reasons), please tell me how you want to get to having a democracy?

I also know, that you want to get rid of corruption!

But as one of your "poster boys(???)" Dr. Seri said: some corruption is okay! So let's face it: you are not for "getting rid of corruption"...you are just for getting rid of "their" corruption!

You are talking about the censorship and intimidation of the press, so why don't you tell us your stance on the Defamation Law and the infamous lest majeste- or is that not censoring and intimidation as you understand it?

Last but not least: all you are saying is "Mr Obama- you can not understand Thailand, unless a Thai explains it to you!"

Do you really think, if Obama would give a hoot about your drivel, he wouldn't know where to get the information?

And by the way: you are complaining about Thaksin's War on Drugs (as you should!) to the leader of a Nation, that is at war with everything from pornography to terror to -yeeeees- drugs and that doesn't give a flying frog about innocent people, getting killed on the way!

You are one of these people who actually thinks, that Thailand is so important, everybody simply has to know and care...they don't!

So what some here in TV-land may call "balanced and informative" is just a useless waste of time and space, onesided, ignorant and selfcentered.

No one needed that!

[cocopops]

The Thaksin authoritarian government, elected through vote-rigging, proved to be the most corrupt and the gravest human rights violator. In order to fully appreciate the current political crisis, one must examine the telecommunications tycoon's legacy. Just to name a few examples of Thaksin's egregious conduct:

The key falsehood in all of this.

Just one link. To any statement by any serious organization or observer that PT did not win the election. Just one.

If the election was stolen, the protests are obviously justified and we should all wish them success. If not, well...

Edited January 20, 2014 by cocopops

[Ragzilb]

I think the democratic system has failed pretty much everywhere.

[Local Drunk]

The US intelligence attaché in Bangkok would have briefed the Obama administration on things even we don't even know in the public domain. They know Thaksin runs the show, they know he's no angel (just like Noriega et al), they play the diplomacy card well to suit their Asia-pac ambitions, they realise it's a good idea to stay on the Shinawatras good side, given they are the most likely to be democratically elected, they stop short of condemning the street protests since they already got their fingers burnt in Egypt and Syria. Whether or not democracy is working well in Thailand is not their concern, as long as it looks democratic and not being monopolised by extremists.

When Obama met Yingluck it probably become immediately apparent to him she wasn't terribly switched on politically.

The US Govt reps in Bangkok will be hoping for stability, no extremists, no civil war, no coup (would have to condemn it even if it was a solution), no drawn out mess that they have to become involved in. Either way, they are likely to get their military favours from one side or the other. Don't peeve either side off too much.

Do you mean to define reps as CIA spys or NSA eavesdropping geeks? Why would the US want to get in involved in Thai politics? The answer to the latter is obvious... contain China. Your'e right though, "don't peve either side off too much".

[casualbiker]

This is a great letter, please help it to be disseminated to all other foreign media and also can the US Government stop minding its own business and get its own country properly first especially its own economic policies. The people of US should start a demonstration against this garbage congressman Michael Turner and his family and croynies as he does not seem to be serving his own American People and their welfare but getting his nose involved in the butts of other people's <deleted> which is not his problem or issue. They should ousts this garbage and also check on all of his finances and businesses and even his families, I am sure that they will find something from a garbage like this.

You obviously don't know much about the Congressman do you? He has an impeccable record, consistently rates highly of the ethics scorecard and has received praise for his revitalization program when he was Mayor of Dayton. No one has ever accused him of wrongdoing.

Had you made an effort to see what congressional committees he chairs and sits on, you would have seen that he is indeed serving the American people. I suggest you do your research before you call someone of his background and reputation "garbage". Who are you to comment anyway? Do you know anything about the Congressman's voting record or the causes that eh has been active in? NO? I didn't think so.

But it's OK for you to belittle the writer of the letter based on a twitter account!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[binjalin]

what a load of rubbish... the writer of this letter needs a letter FROM Obama : "this is what you call democracy - sometimes you don't win! but you don't destroy elections and the electoral process"

Quote: ""this is what you call democracy - sometimes you don't win! but you don't destroy elections and the electoral process".

So your comment is about the current / caretaker government.

pray tell us how the current government have destroyed the electoral process? they are defending it against this attempted coup by the losers of the last election who are not persuading voters to vote for them and know they will lose AGAIN and so have thrown their dummy out of their pushchair

"we won't win - say we will stop them winning so there!"

[jpeg]

PS : If Taksin had simply slunk away, as he was allowed to do, and kept his head down, which all other miscreants have done, in the traditional Thai way, he would have been allowed to get away will all of the aforegoing.

[monkeycountry]

Michael Turner will have a chuckle after reading that nonsense.

Poor old Vanina Sucharitkul hasn't a clue in the slightest what democacy means.

I assume you decided to simply call it nonsense without specifying, because you could not really find the untrue/nonsense parts? :-D

[brewsterbudgen]

Michael Turner will have a chuckle after reading that nonsense.

Poor old Vanina Sucharitkul hasn't a clue in the slightest what democacy means.

I assume you decided to simply call it nonsense without specifying, because you could not really find the untrue/nonsense parts? :-D

Have a read through this thread. There are plenty of well written posts pointing out the unthruths and nonsensical parts of the letter.

[Spalpeen]

I stopped reading after "......to rid Thailand of the most tyrannical and dictatorial leader in history". The rest of the quote shows that he's talikng about world history, not just Thailand.

Let's see......Joe Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung, Ayatollah Khomenei, Adolph Hitler, Genghis Khan, Maggie Thatcher.....also rans, the whole lot of them. Thaksin is the most tyrannical and dictatorial leader in history. And this guy claims to have an education.

[Snig27]

Wow OP, as a US trained lawyer as you claim then you would understand that weather you, Suthep, the Dem's or whistle blowers like it or not,

that

Also you as a US trained lawyer you would also know that the correct way to remove a government leader is to impeach them, clearly show corruption or breaches of laws, but this has not been shown has it.

But the US are well known for their style of removing government they no longer have use for yes?

"this government was elected and those trying to overthrow the government are not respecting the vote of the people, ie the democratic process, "

You're correct of course....PTP were elected....and there were some good populist policies implemented by the past Thaksin regimes.....Village fund, 30 Thb health fund & etc......however...in the highly populated North and NE regions prior to the last election, evidence is blatantly obvious of vote buying....(Youtube has several videos of Reds passing out 1000Thb bills for their vote).

The overwhelming problem with this is that independent research has shown that the Dems spent more buying votes in these regions than PT and it didn't work. People simply took the money and voted as they wished.

The uncomfortable and underlying implication in all these endless claims of vote buying is that all these people - the whole region - are stupid and easily led. The population's minds are not their own. I for one find this ongoing elitism and - yep - racism ugly. It's no different to the way white southerners approached the black population for a hundred years after the US civil war, and the English regarded Indians, Chinese, Malays, Māori, Aborigines and Africans for hundreds of years. It's abhorrent.

Please, next time you are making blanket accusations of vote buying think for a moment about what you are saying. People who live in the regions that vote strongly PT have minds, ethics, morals and opinions, no more or less than any other person who voted any other way - no matter how much you may need to buy into blanket "vote-buying" to support the position you may have taken.

What "independent research"?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It's been well quoted in the past both in these forums and in various newspapers. Google is your friend.

[Thai at Heart]

evading taxes worth $16.3 million.

Must be more than that surely. I thought his shareholding was worth usd 2 bn

[Fookhaht]

I think the democratic system has failed pretty much everywhere.

And to take its place, you propose.......?

Just some of the governmental systems in today's world: Fascism, communism, benevolent dictatorship, military junta, absolute monarchy, dictatorship by a corrupt politician and his cronies (Suthep), etc?

Anyone can bash. Few can propose workable solutions. Which is what makes your post so pathetic.

**********************************************************

"Democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

WINSTON CHURCHILL, speech, Nov. 11, 1947

"The ballot is stronger than the bullet."

ABRAHAM LINCOLN, speech, May 19, 1856

"Democracy is a charming form of government, full of variety and disorder, and dispensing a sort of equality to equals and unequal alike."

PLATO

"Democracy's worst fault is that its leaders are likely to reflect the faults and virtues of their constituents"

ROBERT A. HEINLEIN, Stranger in a Strange Land

"When threatened, the first thing a democracy gives up is democracy."

MIGNON MCLAUGHLIN, The Complete Neurotic's Notebook

"The best cure for the ills of democracy is more democracy."

EDWARD ABBEY, A Voice Crying in the Wilderness

"It is the life of democracy to favor equality".

CHRISTIAN NESTELL BOVEE, Intuitions and Summaries of Thought

*******************

Poster's note:

The last quotation is probably why Thailand struggles so much with a democratic system. It's a hierarchical culture where everyone is supposed to know their place in the pecking order, and only a social/cultural revolution can seem to alter that. Those higher on the ladder will not give up their places without a fight, least of which would be to accept the controlling votes of those of the lower echelons.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Fookhaht

[Braddockrd]

555 I thought Thailand did not allow dual citizenship....

[casualbiker]

555 I thought Thailand did not allow dual citizenship....

You thought wrong .. it only doesn't seem to allow it when it suits thaksin and the reds..ie abhisit

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[moonseeker]

Excellent! Unfortunately a huge majority never gets even close to understand what is really going on here in Thailand. Certainly not Mr. Obama, who does not even know ( or want to know...) what happens in his own country. MS>

[Delta8500]

"When a system allows for voter fraud and places corrupt politicians above the law, citizens must question this broken system. A true democracy requires transparency, accountability and proper balance of power."

Although this letter to Obama might be considered a reasonable idea, it is not. Obama himself has usurped the the system here in the US. He is not complying with the constitution in numerous ways such as his unilateral changes to laws passed by the people's representatives, non-enforcement of laws and crony corporate and union deals with outfits like Solyndra, the UAW, the NEA and others. His is at heart a corrupt leader and not one worth asking for influence in a matter like this that is taking place in Thailand. Save your breath....

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Theoutsider]

I'm curious about the answers of some of the simplistic anti-Suthep pro Thaksin TV members

So what your answer?

[shunima]

Not the sharpest tool in the box...

Edited January 20, 2014 by shunima

[simon43]

IMHO, Obama should ignore the letter, which is full of false claims and clearly written by someone who doesn't understand that a democratically-elected government has every right to govern as they see fit.

However, it looks like Obama could make a killing on completing those surveys....

[Local Drunk]

This is a great letter, please help it to be disseminated to all other foreign media and also can the US Government stop minding its own business and get its own country properly first especially its own economic policies. The people of US should start a demonstration against this garbage congressman Michael Turner and his family and croynies as he does not seem to be serving his own American People and their welfare but getting his nose involved in the butts of other people's <deleted> which is not his problem or issue. They should ousts this garbage and also check on all of his finances and businesses and even his families, I am sure that they will find something from a garbage like this.

You obviously don't know much about the Congressman do you? He has an impeccable record, consistently rates highly of the ethics scorecard and has received praise for his revitalization program when he was Mayor of Dayton. No one has ever accused him of wrongdoing.

Had you made an effort to see what congressional committees he chairs and sits on, you would have seen that he is indeed serving the American people. I suggest you do your research before you call someone of his background and reputation "garbage". Who are you to comment anyway? Do you know anything about the Congressman's voting record or the causes that eh has been active in? NO? I didn't think so.

I agree that there is no evidence that this congressman is serving anyone but the American people. However, that certainly doesn't mean that his American backed interests aren't opposite Thai interests.

He is US chairman of the house armed services tactical air and land forces subcommittee. US wants a base in Thailand. Thai military doesn't want it. You do the math what's going on.

The Thais that I know are increasingly becoming anti-American because of this sort of press. Why is an American Congressman writing to the president regarding Thailand? His job is not foreign relations. His job is to fulfill the wishes and best interests of his constituency. No politician is clean and a letter like this is certain to bring out the sharks who scent blood. As to my knowledge he's the only one commenting on Thailand... There has to be a reason, a tie or influence to the current situation or some personal matter.

They are all dirty you know.

[casualbiker]

Not the sharpest tool in the box...

Why? Have you ever thought that the email system requires a zip code to work .. offcourse you could

Mean that it's simple enough to find one........

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[gabruce]

Michael Turner will have a chuckle after reading that nonsense.

Poor old Vanina Sucharitkul hasn't a clue in the slightest what democacy means.

Vanina Sucharitkul said "A true democracy requires transparency, accountability and proper balance of power."

Should I assume that you believe a true democracy requires corrupt, is not accountable, secret laws, hidden operations, and total power in the central government? If so, then I think that you don't understand good governance.

[gabruce]

This is a great letter, please help it to be disseminated to all other foreign media and also can the US Government stop minding its own business and get its own country properly first especially its own economic policies. The people of US should start a demonstration against this garbage congressman Michael Turner and his family and croynies as he does not seem to be serving his own American People and their welfare but getting his nose involved in the butts of other people's <deleted> which is not his problem or issue. They should ousts this garbage and also check on all of his finances and businesses and even his families, I am sure that they will find something from a garbage like this.

You obviously don't know much about the Congressman do you? He has an impeccable record, consistently rates highly of the ethics scorecard and has received praise for his revitalization program when he was Mayor of Dayton. No one has ever accused him of wrongdoing.

Had you made an effort to see what congressional committees he chairs and sits on, you would have seen that he is indeed serving the American people. I suggest you do your research before you call someone of his background and reputation "garbage". Who are you to comment anyway? Do you know anything about the Congressman's voting record or the causes that eh has been active in? NO? I didn't think so.

I agree that there is no evidence that this congressman is serving anyone but the American people. However, that certainly doesn't mean that his American backed interests aren't opposite Thai interests.

He is US chairman of the house armed services tactical air and land forces subcommittee. US wants a base in Thailand. Thai military doesn't want it. You do the math what's going on.

The Thais that I know are increasingly becoming anti-American because of this sort of press. Why is an American Congressman writing to the president regarding Thailand? His job is not foreign relations. His job is to fulfill the wishes and best interests of his constituency. No politician is clean and a letter like this is certain to bring out the sharks who scent blood. As to my knowledge he's the only one commenting on Thailand... There has to be a reason, a tie or influence to the current situation or some personal matter.

They are all dirty you know.

Maybe he had to cancel his Bangkok vacation and is annoyed.