Thailand as an ideal location for a tech startup?

[wym]

Interesting article

http://blog.taskworld.com/tips-advice/launching-startups-abroad-the-bangkok-advantage/

Wish them the best of luck, personally think there are some truths here, sex-crazed techies who can't get decent work back home certainly are willing to work for peanuts here, but somehow I think the quality standard of people you get that way will not be worth the savings.

And VERY silly IMO for them to publicise the fact that their business model includes flaunting the Kingdom's WP/Visa requirements.

Edited January 21, 2014 by wym

[minimaxx]

Nice article. Thanks for sharing

[MrHammer]

Thailand has great potential to become a startup hub due to the excellent weather, cheap cost and good infrastructure, the only thing that is lacking is the desire to be so and of course political interest. The major issue is the archaic legislation regarding work permits and incorporation which in essence keeps 99% of legit entrepreneurs out. Compare to Singapore and Hong Kong where it is very easy to incorporate, but much more expensive.

Of course it all comes from the idea that foreigners would come and steal natural resources and perhaps - and I hope not that is the case - that allowing foreigners inside would challenge the status quo in terms of social hierachy. Startups give the smart and hardworking a chance to bypass the established ways of gaining money and power which in Thailand unfortunately depends on many other things than skills.

As it is now, I don't think Thailand is a good bet for a serious startup. The locals do not speak good English and the foreigners are not dependable and many have serious sex and alchohol addictions. Even the Philippines is a better low cost choice as it is now.

In the end it comes down if Thailand wants to be a part of the global modern economy or if they want to keep it business as usual. I'm not going to risk it personally and is already looking for other countries to base an online startup out of. Eastern Europe is a good bet, smart and capable population at low cost and they are hungry and internationally oriented: Poland and Estonia among others. Then there is Chile who will straight up give you money to base your startup there. Singapore is another option allthough you probably need quite a bit of capital to actually have people live and work there. Taiwan is an option too. Thailand is far down the list, but I would really hope that some people in the Thai government can see the potential, because it is definitely there.

[roamer]

Thailand is far down the list, but I would really hope that some people in the Thai government can see the potential, because it is definitely there.

Unfortunately with this or any future government they will also see more to be lost than to be gained, about the only thing they do agree on is that only they shall be allowed to profit.

[manarak]

Yes, Thailand is great for a tech startup if you got the right staff, unfortunately, capable coders are very rare and not really cheaper in Thailand, they earn between 120k and 200k a month and work for Apple, Google, etc.

So if one has money to spend on qualified staff and money to invest in teaching/training new coders, Bangkok can be great.

[farang000999]

1. No freedom of speech and you can be put in jail and have your life ruined if someone more powerful than you deems it necessary.

2. Micky mouse make believe court systems where connections are the only thing that matters.

3. Archaic complicated and unorganized government offices and regulations.

4. Locals who have not studied abroad do not appear particularly talented or creative.

5. Foreigners are predominately losers and scum.

[wym]

I agree Thailand has some good points, but not as the legal basis for what you intend to become a large globally operating entity.

Singapore is probably good for that, and close enough that the actual staffing/operations could still be located here in varying degrees of "stealth" mode.

See the "PT" or multiple flags theory, applied to a corporation rather than just an individual. Bit more overhead to set up initially but can get the best of all possible worlds by diversifying different aspects, much more easily enabled with tech and the internet these days.

But fundamentally Thailand will always be most ideal as your playground rather than host to anything substantial legally/financially. Great way to reward well-performing socially handicapped young tech geeks.

[appwill]

I don't agree with many points on this blog, but I don't really feel the need to explain them all. Anyone with first hand experience would probably already know. I'm thinking the author has just done Internet research.

If someone was looking for tech start up locations, it would have to be Taipei. Unfortunately they lack decent Thai restaurants

[Costas2008]

"More and more people are learning how to program so talent is fast becoming abundantly available"

Yes, thousands of dropouts go to these, so called, technical colleges to learn computer skills and programing.

Unfortunately, not many of them, come out with any knowledge and skills.

Unless the standard of education improve in Thailand we will have the problem of too much quantity and no quality.

[wym]

I don't think he's talking about local kids.

Anyone can learn to program given an Internet-connected computer, everything you need is available for free online.

Just need to be smart, motivated and disciplined.

[recycler]

I think they forget to mention the much lower labor productivity and extreme load of accounting, reporting for revenue dept., etc.

And on top of that for a tech startup you need people who speak and understand proper English, they are very rare here even among academics and IT people!

In most western countries starting and running a company is much easier and cheaper than in Thailand.

[JSatGS]

I am a tech startuper. I have lived in Asia, India and the US working for tech companies. I live in the startup ecosystem that is being discussed with a view point from both Seattle and SV as well as globally. I'd be cautious to state that Thailand is not on the radar for Tech Startup. I know for a fact that it is from personal discussion and knowledge. In fact, Dave McClure... 500Hats and 500Startups fame is making a concerted effort in Thailand. Startup Weekend in fact has gone to BKK 2x times with Dave helping to underwrite the endeavor. At the last, 54 companies were spawned with 3 getting investment. I know of more than 15 active VC firms that have allocated $$ to spend specifically in Asia. Today's tech is not the MS behemoth of the past. 150K now a days can provide for a long runway. Cloud hosting, the popular adoption of internet, smart phones and apps, as well as the price of technology having plummeted.. add to that the investment in 200K wifi hotspots and infrastructure in Thailand and many areas of Asia...significant sources of capital starting to crop up in the area and early adopter VC's looking to Asia... it sets the stage for significant startup ecosystem. I personally am connected to a number of startupers in Thailand, Viet Nam, China, India and other areas of Asia.

In sum, talk to people in the ecosystem... we are aware of the stage being set. There is infrastructure, capital and entrepreneurial spirit bubbling up rapidly. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

FYI - When Instagram sold for 1B... had less than 30 employees. SnapChat just acquired...more than 1B...less than 30 employees... one of my own past companies (as an employee) acquired for 118M...less than 100 employees. Tech Startup....... as I check the forum board at 9:49 PM waiting on a call from a CEO from Dubai so we can meet on the edges of each others days.

As for reading and writing English... that is localization and can be done effectively now if you know what you are doing. It is coming is all I am stating. Not trying to pick a fight with anyone here. Looking inside out of the ecosystem, I am excited

Edited January 22, 2014 by JSatGS

[NHT]

Thailand has great potential to become a startup hub due to the excellent weather, cheap cost and good infrastructure, the only thing that is lacking is the desire to be so and of course political interest.

So, MR Hammer, and you believe that's all that's needed! ?

Well, your hallucination might be "the" reason you're there, and may I say, you fit perfectly,

and -

that's sure "a" reason why Thailand has a lo__________________________ng way to go.

Edited January 22, 2014 by NHT

[wym]

I think they forget to mention the much lower labor productivity and extreme load of accounting, reporting for revenue dept., etc.

And on top of that for a tech startup you need people who speak and understand proper English, they are very rare here even among academics and IT people!

In most western countries starting and running a company is much easier and cheaper than in Thailand.

Again, no one's talking about hiring Thais.

Not excluding them necessarily, but that's not the point, young techies can work from anywhere, lots of foreigners would love to live here, lower cost of living and the "perks" available here means can keep wages low.

@JSatGS - glad to hear it, I'm sure the overall climate in this part of the world is growing more conducive, just think the decision to legally/financially base a company's HQ here in Thailand is questionable. Operating branche sure, just not the corp.

But would be very happy to see I'm wrong down the road.

Edited January 22, 2014 by wym

[jamilv]

I don't agree with many points on this blog, but I don't really feel the need to explain them all. Anyone with first hand experience would probably already know. I'm thinking the author has just done Internet research.

If someone was looking for tech start up locations, it would have to be Taipei. Unfortunately they lack decent Thai restaurants

One of the contributors to this article here, I am involved in 2 startups here in Thailand and it is actually working great. The only downside we have had is internet connectivity. While the talent is hard to find we have some for Thailand good experience devs (for back home they are near entry level) who have been able to pick up the coding capabilities we needed in a short timeframe and they are working out well. That is not to say it is always the case but with lots of effort into it, it has worked out well for us.

I will do a personal article about it later on as I would like to go into more detail personally about cash flows, actually bootstrapping and finding staff and so on. The purpose of this article is more to shed a small bit of light on Bangkok as a potential startup location. Take it as a grain of salt, nothing more.

Note: For reference we all have proper work visas and all our papers (though we do have a majority Thai staff, so they are already sorted), we dont use visa runs nor do we condone them, but it is realistic that someone trying to bootstrap a startup here will utilize this method to make it work.

Edited January 22, 2014 by jamilv

[Showbags]

I am a tech startuper. I have lived in Asia, India and the US working for tech companies. I live in the startup ecosystem that is being discussed with a view point from both Seattle and SV as well as globally. I'd be cautious to state that Thailand is not on the radar for Tech Startup. I know for a fact that it is from personal discussion and knowledge. In fact, Dave McClure... 500Hats and 500Startups fame is making a concerted effort in Thailand. Startup Weekend in fact has gone to BKK 2x times with Dave helping to underwrite the endeavor. At the last, 54 companies were spawned with 3 getting investment. I know of more than 15 active VC firms that have allocated $$ to spend specifically in Asia. Today's tech is not the MS behemoth of the past. 150K now a days can provide for a long runway. Cloud hosting, the popular adoption of internet, smart phones and apps, as well as the price of technology having plummeted.. add to that the investment in 200K wifi hotspots and infrastructure in Thailand and many areas of Asia...significant sources of capital starting to crop up in the area and early adopter VC's looking to Asia... it sets the stage for significant startup ecosystem. I personally am connected to a number of startupers in Thailand, Viet Nam, China, India and other areas of Asia.

In sum, talk to people in the ecosystem... we are aware of the stage being set. There is infrastructure, capital and entrepreneurial spirit bubbling up rapidly. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

FYI - When Instagram sold for 1B... had less than 30 employees. SnapChat just acquired...more than 1B...less than 30 employees... one of my own past companies (as an employee) acquired for 118M...less than 100 employees. Tech Startup....... as I check the forum board at 9:49 PM waiting on a call from a CEO from Dubai so we can meet on the edges of each others days.

As for reading and writing English... that is localization and can be done effectively now if you know what you are doing. It is coming is all I am stating. Not trying to pick a fight with anyone here. Looking inside out of the ecosystem, I am excited

Want a job ?

Pay sucks...but huge potential...

[appwill]

One of the contributors to this article here, I am involved in 2 startups here in Thailand and it is actually working great. The only downside we have had is internet connectivity. While the talent is hard to find we have some for Thailand good experience devs (for back home they are near entry level) who have been able to pick up the coding capabilities we needed in a short timeframe and they are working out well. That is not to say it is always the case but with lots of effort into it, it has worked out well for us.

I will do a personal article about it later on as I would like to go into more detail personally about cash flows, actually bootstrapping and finding staff and so on. The purpose of this article is more to shed a small bit of light on Bangkok as a potential startup location. Take it as a grain of salt, nothing more.

First of all, I do think BKK/Thailand has a lot of potential for startups. That's why I'm here But reading this article gave me the impression of being "over hyped", at least in the near future. I couldn't recommend it to my friends with my own biases. But whatever. We all have our own opinions based from our experiences .

The part about your article that struck a nerve was about the "great" public transportation system. I can't stand getting around BKK. Taxi drivers refusing a fare completely blows my mind.

Perhaps my experiences are being drawn from the wrong places, so I'd love to find out more about groups here. I've look at http://www.meetup.com/WebMobThailand/ and http://www.meetup.com/Bangkok-TechMeetups which look interesting, but for whatever reason, haven't gone. Does anyone have recommendations?

[Showbags]

I've been looking for a guy to deal with for a project for some time....last prospect let me down dismally and wasted a lot of time....basically could not what was required to complete.....foreign guy by the way.

[jamilv]

One of the contributors to this article here, I am involved in 2 startups here in Thailand and it is actually working great. The only downside we have had is internet connectivity. While the talent is hard to find we have some for Thailand good experience devs (for back home they are near entry level) who have been able to pick up the coding capabilities we needed in a short timeframe and they are working out well. That is not to say it is always the case but with lots of effort into it, it has worked out well for us.

I will do a personal article about it later on as I would like to go into more detail personally about cash flows, actually bootstrapping and finding staff and so on. The purpose of this article is more to shed a small bit of light on Bangkok as a potential startup location. Take it as a grain of salt, nothing more.

First of all, I do think BKK/Thailand has a lot of potential for startups. That's why I'm here But reading this article gave me the impression of being "over hyped", at least in the near future. I couldn't recommend it to my friends with my own biases. But whatever. We all have our own opinions based from our experiences .

The part about your article that struck a nerve was about the "great" public transportation system. I can't stand getting around BKK. Taxi drivers refusing a fare completely blows my mind.

Perhaps my experiences are being drawn from the wrong places, so I'd love to find out more about groups here. I've look at http://www.meetup.com/WebMobThailand/ and http://www.meetup.com/Bangkok-TechMeetups which look interesting, but for whatever reason, haven't gone. Does anyone have recommendations?

By transport system we mainly just meant the BTS. MRT is not great but is functional. Both are much better than my experiences in Toronto where I was living for a couple years. That being said they are not on the level of Tokyo or anything, but even with a packed train in Bangkok it is never really packed, it is comfortably packed.

Taxis are a mess though, I do completely agree. Motorbikes on the other hand are brilliant!

[drx13]

Some years ago I worked for a US company manufacturing High Tech Manufacturing Machinery (CNC), and we had a meeting with

BOI etc. They asked if we could make our machines here. Our CEO, said to me "What do you think Horace?"

"I can't even make a f....ing 'phone call here!"

"Nuff Said", he said, he'd been reading Trink.

[umbanda]

Thank you for sharing the link. I agree with most, even if do not know much about other Asian markets, I think cannot be easier and cheaper than here to open a business, and that may be the reason why Thai people open and close businesses so easy and before doing any serious research.

My opinion.....

Many people said that Thailand is not ready to share the Asean market, and they are right, but that is exactly why Thailand is a good place for business related with the Asean market. Even languages teaching schools may be a good business more than it is now, because without English, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, even Portuguese languages knowledge the Thai professionals cannot compete with the ones from the Asean countries.

The Thai Government is giving funds since 2012 to all Thai elementary schools to hire ANY English and Chinese speaker....but salaries are not good.

I believe that very soon that will change, and the Thai government will partner with private companies in that programs and others, to get leveled with Asean countries. Abut Thai talents?....Young Thai university students are really bad in languages, but I met some computers savvies here that will beat any from the US... Training people for the Asean market is the challenge here....and it is a big opportunity for foreigners to get into that now...

About the money?....Here, now, with $5000/month you can have a lot better life than in the US or Europe with $20,000/month.....and with a lot more chances in making $20,000/month here and not there.in any GLOBAL independent business.

Yes....you will need to have the right Thai contacts and partners...but that will be a condition in ANY "3rd world" country...Believe me..I am Brazilian..

By the way...Do you know that McDonald is not more an American company?....In 2009 was sold to a Brazilian company for $14billions..next?

I know...Thai is a surprise for some of you..specially for the ones from the US....But...sorry....the world is changing......

Edited January 22, 2014 by umbanda

[FiftyTwo]

I don't think he's talking about local kids.

Anyone can learn to program given an Internet-connected computer, everything you need is available for free online.

Just need to be smart, motivated and disciplined.

locals cant do the work

foreigners can do the work, but cant do it legally

person who starts the company cant own the company

civil warunrest, flooding, corruption

seems like a great idea.

ps

i thought mcdonalds was a franchise, which means thai owned in thailand.

Edited January 22, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[appwill]

By transport system we mainly just meant the BTS. MRT is not great but is functional. Both are much better than my experiences in Toronto where I was living for a couple years. That being said they are not on the level of Tokyo or anything, but even with a packed train in Bangkok it is never really packed, it is comfortably packed.

Taxis are a mess though, I do completely agree. Motorbikes on the other hand are brilliant!

But the article said "great public transport (affordable taxis included)"

Even if BTS was free and came with a free massage, it doesn't solve the problem of getting me from A to B because it's only one line. BKK is a big place.

The motorbikes are great and I love them, but I worry everytime I take one, that'll be my last.

(I do have other points about your article, but this one was the most PC. The other points are better discussed over beer)

I just came from Taipei. That has the same "Asianness" of Bangkok, but I feel the foundations are much stronger. They have a great MRT system, along with modern buses, and taxi drivers who never say no. (being able to get around is very important). Taiwan is quite well known for being a technology producer too! Being able to speak Mandarin will get you opportunities to tap the Chinese market as well. Taiwan passports are allowed into the US without a visa (conferences, meetings, etc.) If you're in it for the money, that's where I'd go.

I'm in Thailand because I'm not in it for the money. I'm not rich by any standard, but extremely happy with my financial situation.

[recycler]

I think they forget to mention the much lower labor productivity and extreme load of accounting, reporting for revenue dept., etc.

And on top of that for a tech startup you need people who speak and understand proper English, they are very rare here even among academics and IT people!

In most western countries starting and running a company is much easier and cheaper than in Thailand.

Again, no one's talking about hiring Thais.

Not excluding them necessarily, but that's not the point, young techies can work from anywhere, lots of foreigners would love to live here, lower cost of living and the "perks" available here means can keep wages low.

@JSatGS - glad to hear it, I'm sure the overall climate in this part of the world is growing more conducive, just think the decision to legally/financially base a company's HQ here in Thailand is questionable. Operating branche sure, just not the corp.

But would be very happy to see I'm wrong down the road.

If you want to run a legitimate business here you would still need to hire 4 Thais for every foreign workpermit.

However you could stay under the radar at the very beginning, but soon get visa problems.

[hhiser]

Interesting article, but it seems like it was written by someone who has never lived in Thailand for any amount of time.

[Carl64]

From experience I don't feel the risk is worth it.

Language issues, saving face culture is a massive disadvantage and basically allows you staff to lie! Political unrest, floods, corruption, ridiculous visa requirements, no freedom of speech and basically a jealous people. Wow what a headache.

Ps. And don't forget if you insult an employee you may end up getting murdered. (It happened before)

[nithisa78]

I don't think he's talking about local kids.

Anyone can learn to program given an Internet-connected computer, everything you need is available for free online.

Just need to be smart, motivated and disciplined.

......................Without the fear of success. It is the fear factor that keeps so many gifted people, worldwide, just doing time. We must be committed.

[Showbags]

From experience I don't feel the risk is worth it.

Language issues, saving face culture is a massive disadvantage and basically allows you staff to lie! Political unrest, floods, corruption, ridiculous visa requirements, no freedom of speech and basically a jealous people. Wow what a headache.

Ps. And don't forget if you insult an employee you may end up getting murdered. (It happened before)

If you look the wrong way at a person too...you could get murdered...and bashed....then murdered again.

(it happened before)

Edited January 22, 2014 by Showbags

[wym]

Thank you for sharing the link. I agree with most, even if do not know much about other Asian markets, I think cannot be easier and cheaper than here to open a business, and that may be the reason why Thai people open and close businesses so easy and before doing any serious research.

My opinion.....

Many people said that Thailand is not ready to share the Asean market, and they are right, but that is exactly why Thailand is a good place for business related with the Asean market. Even languages teaching schools may be a good business more than it is now, because without English, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, even Portuguese languages knowledge the Thai professionals cannot compete with the ones from the Asean countries.

The Thai Government is giving funds since 2012 to all Thai elementary schools to hire ANY English and Chinese speaker....but salaries are not good.

I believe that very soon that will change, and the Thai government will partner with private companies in that programs and others, to get leveled with Asean countries. Abut Thai talents?....Young Thai university students are really bad in languages, but I met some computers savvies here that will beat any from the US... Training people for the Asean market is the challenge here....and it is a big opportunity for foreigners to get into that now...

About the money?....Here, now, with $5000/month you can have a lot better life than in the US or Europe with $20,000/month.....and with a lot more chances in making $20,000/month here and not there.in any GLOBAL independent business.

Yes....you will need to have the right Thai contacts and partners...but that will be a condition in ANY "3rd world" country...Believe me..I am Brazilian..

By the way...Do you know that McDonald is not more an American company?....In 2009 was sold to a Brazilian company for $14billions..next?

I know...Thai is a surprise for some of you..specially for the ones from the US....But...sorry....the world is changing......

So much misinformation here.

Global McDonalds is an American corporation. There are subsidiaries in different countries, I'm sure that's teh same in Brazil, but Brazilian stockholders are certainly not majority shareholders in the global corp.

Interesting fact - the central business purpose and long-term profit center of McD's is real estate investment, they usually purchase the land and then charge rent to the franchisee to cover the purchase.

Your optimism about Thais learning so many languages is very naive, just English and Chinese are IMO too great a challenge and the rest largely irrelevant, especially Portuguese. Bottom line is that few Thai nationals, corporate or professional will be able to compete effectively if ASEAN is fully implemented.

Sure there are some decent computer techies in Thailand. But rare. And even more rare to find any that are brilliant and as money/career obsessed workaholics as required in that industry.

The lack of rule of law makes it a silly place to base a global business HQ legally/financially.

But hiring/placing your underpaid international talent here to take advantage of the low cost of living and available attractive women will remain one key advantage.

As long as they work from home or wherever, most likely no problem with the WP/visa issue, pay them offshore and coordinate through Taiwan or Singapore.

[farang000999]

Having a billion dollar company that is legally registered in Thailand and subjected to Thai laws and the whims of the Thai political and social system seems like a terrible idea.

What are we talking about? Programers living in Thailand and working remotely or using Thailand as a legal base to run your business from?