EC says it has no power to consider rice-scheme funding

[webfact]

RICE PLEDGING SCHEME
EC says it has no power to consider rice-scheme funding
Business reporters
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Yingluck Shinawatra-led government has suffered a major setback in its attempt to seek new funds for its rice-pledging scheme, after the Election Commission (EC) yesterday insisted the government must make its own decision on whether to obtain loans for the programme.

Without the loans, payments to farmers under the rice-pledging scheme will continue to be delayed, threatening to hurt the Pheu Thai Party's political support. Upset by the delay, many farmers are threatening to take steps to topple the government.

"I have plunged into debt because of the policy of this government," lamented Phichit farmer Somkuan Songjaeng. "I won't vote for the Pheu Thai Party in the upcoming election."

EC secretary-general Puchong Nutrawong said at a press conference yesterday that his agency had no authority to consider a request to approve additional loans to pay farmers owed money under the scheme. "The matter is for the government to consider, and is [the government's] responsibility," he said.

The EC's approval is required under Section 181 of the Constitution, which bans a caretaker government from making any decisions that could impose financial burdens on the next government.

The Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives (BAAC)'s board has insisted it will not use the bank's liquidity to pay for the rice-pledging scheme.

Meanwhile, some groups of farmers plan to head to Bangkok this week with the ultimate goal of ousting the government, which they blame not paying for crops pledged several months ago.

Under the scheme, the government is expected to pay about Bt167 billion for some 10 million tonnes of paddy rice in the latest harvest season, from October 2013 to February 2014. But, the government now faces a financial problem, as it cannot release pledged rice from state stockpiles, even for government-to-government rice deals as it claims to have agreed to. Hence, it needs at least Bt130 billion to finance the project.

On Monday, many groups of farmers in Central provinces gathered to block roads to protest against the government's failure to pay them for pledged rice. The government has failed to keep promises, made many times since November, to pay thousands of farmers.

Kittiratt meets EC

Yesterday, caretaker Finance Minister Kittiratt Na Ranong met with the EC to explain the government's need to borrow another Bt130 billion to pay for the rice-pledging scheme, one of its most famous populist policies. He said before the meeting that the amount was in line with that approved by the Cabinet in September last year, before the House dissolution.

Caretaker Deputy Finance Minister Tanusak Lekuthai said yesterday after the BAAC's hastily arranged board meeting that the board agreed not to use the bank's cash flow to fund the rice scheme. But measures to ease the plight of farmers who have suffered losses would be launched.

Tanusak said before the EC announced its resolution that the bank would launch measures to resolve farmers' financial problems if the EC did not allow the government to borrow more money to pay them.

The measures include a one-year debt extension with unchanged interest rates; penalty rate exemptions; and new loan allowances. The new loans will be equal to 20 per cent of the value of farmers' certificates to sell their rice, with an interest rate of 7 per cent annually.

While the meeting between the EC and Kittiratt was ongoing, Kittisak Rattanavaraha, coordinator of a farmers' network in the lower Central region, said farmers would continue protesting, despite being asked by Kittiratt to wait for the meeting's results. He said farmers didn't believe the EC would allow the government to take out more loans as requested. They would also escalate their protest, taking a more aggressive stance by rallying in Bangkok in the next few days.

BAAC president Luck Wajanawat said the bank's board also discussed the source of funds for the rice scheme and insisted that only the government should secure the funding.

On the progress of rice pledged in the 2013-14 harvest season, BAAC executive vice president Supat Eauchai said about 10.41 million tonnes of paddy rice had entered the project, worth Bt170 billion. Of this amount, the BAAC had already paid about Bt51.9 billion for 3.2 million tonnes of paddy. The bank has only Bt4 billion left with which to make payments.

The National Rice Policy Committee projects that claims amounting to about Bt150 billion would be made for paddy in the latest harvest season. The BAAC has estimated that payments for paddy entering the project through till February would amount to Bt190 billion.


-- The Nation 2014-01-22

[Cricketnut]

Quote " EC secretary-general Puchong Nutrawong said at a press conference yesterday that his agency had no authority to consider a request to approve additional loans to pay farmers owed money under the scheme. "The matter is for the government to consider, and is [the government's] responsibility," he said.

The EC's approval is required under Section 181 of the Constitution, which bans a caretaker government from making any decisions that could impose financial burdens on the next government". So on one hand section 181 of the constition states that a caretaker governement cannot make any decisions or impose a burden on a future government, yet at the same time they then add that "The matter is for the government to consider, and is [the government's] responsibility,"

Oh my I love these contradictions/hypocracy and simply feel sorry for the average Thai Farmer, be they yellow, white, red, purple or grey for that matter. When will someone in Thailand and Thai government and it's agenices be a normal adult and take some responsibility. Whilst the current governments pledgling scheme was a dummy from the start, the farmers should still be paid as the government was elected by the PEOPLE. It is besides the point if you are a winner or loser, or complain about vote buying and blah blah.. Face the facts that this is Thailand. We do exactly the same in the west re vote buying and then NOT delivering on election promises and the money dissapearing into the coffers to be never seen again. The only difference is, we say that, Oh yes, we will build a new road here and there, new hospitals, better infrastructure, transportation etc and then a lot of what is promised is dumped once the party is voted into power... No different and there is no argument, One is tangible in cash the other is "sometimes tangible in promises kept, it is still vote buying.

As the EC has does have the power to authorise these loans, they should do so for the benefit of the Thai nation as a whole. (As it stands they are effectively doing all they can to see Thailand go down the pipe due to some pompous ass elites who dont give two cares as to the rest of the NATION) Let the nation then vote the government out at the next elections. America has made their own people pay for failed policies, (and more then anyother country in history 4 years ago) as has England, Ireland and France. Is Thailand really that different from this point of view? I think not... Though my satangs worth is not yours... please go on...

[Bluespunk]

The payments were due in October. The delays have been caused by the fact PT has no money to meet the payments. Their solution to strip BAAC of its assets to meet these obligations is a sign that times are indeed desperate and this scheme has utterly failed. Nothing to do with the EC.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Bluespunk

[harrry]

Quote " EC secretary-general Puchong Nutrawong said at a press conference yesterday that his agency had no authority to consider a request to approve additional loans to pay farmers owed money under the scheme. "The matter is for the government to consider, and is [the government's] responsibility," he said.

The EC's approval is required under Section 181 of the Constitution, which bans a caretaker government from making any decisions that could impose financial burdens on the next government". So on one hand section 181 of the constition states that a caretaker governement cannot make any decisions or impose a burden on a future government, yet at the same time they then add that "The matter is for the government to consider, and is [the government's] responsibility,"

Oh my I love these contradictions/hypocracy and simply feel sorry for the average Thai Farmer, be they yellow, white, red, purple or grey for that matter. When will someone in Thailand and Thai government and it's agenices be a normal adult and take some responsibility. Whilst the current governments pledgling scheme was a dummy from the start, the farmers should still be paid as the government was elected by the PEOPLE. It is besides the point if you are a winner or loser, or complain about vote buying and blah blah.. Face the facts that this is Thailand. We do exactly the same in the west re vote buying and then NOT delivering on election promises and the money dissapearing into the coffers to be never seen again. The only difference is, we say that, Oh yes, we will build a new road here and there, new hospitals, better infrastructure, transportation etc and then a lot of what is promised is dumped once the party is voted into power... No different and there is no argument, One is tangible in cash the other is "sometimes tangible in promises kept, it is still vote buying.

As the EC has does have the power to authorise these loans, they should do so for the benefit of the Thai nation as a whole. (As it stands they are effectively doing all they can to see Thailand go down the pipe due to some pompous ass elites who dont give two cares as to the rest of the NATION) Let the nation then vote the government out at the next elections. America has made their own people pay for failed policies, (and more then anyother country in history 4 years ago) as has England, Ireland and France. Is Thailand really that different from this point of view? I think not... Though my satangs worth is not yours... please go on...

I see them as not having the power to say no but to warn that if the loan goes ahead action could be taken. The same as in most countries a department or even a court cannot say something is actually ilegal. All they can do is warn that if it goes ahead it will go to court and in their view it would not be legal. That is the reason people are taken right through courts in many countries for fairly minor offences so there can be a precedent and clarity.

[Nacho]

As much as I feel for the farmers, some have been almost 5 months without payment. There is just over a week till the supposed election that PTP are so keen on seeing happen on feb 2nd.So why can't the PTP let the farmers wait another 11 days and keep everything legal? Obviously because it's another case of PTP's corruption, vote buying, and complete disregard for the law and then trying to put the blame on someone else.

Edited January 22, 2014 by Nacho

[northernjohn]

As much as I feel for the farmers, some have been almost 5 months without payment. There is just over a week till the supposed election that PTP are so keen on seeing happen on feb 2nd.So why can't the PTP let the farmers wait another 11 days and keep everything legal? Obviously because it's another case of PTP's corruption, vote buying, and complete disregard for the law and then trying to put the blame on someone else.

the Feb. 2 election will not produce a quorum so I see no ability to make the loan then either.

The big question is what has the EC got to do with it. ?The payments were due in October when their was a legal government. They had the power.

They were to busy trying to white wash the PM brother that they did not have time to take care of their own people.

[JRSoul]

Quote " EC secretary-general Puchong Nutrawong said at a press conference yesterday that his agency had no authority to consider a request to approve additional loans to pay farmers owed money under the scheme. "The matter is for the government to consider, and is [the government's] responsibility," he said.

The EC's approval is required under Section 181 of the Constitution, which bans a caretaker government from making any decisions that could impose financial burdens on the next government". So on one hand section 181 of the constition states that a caretaker governement cannot make any decisions or impose a burden on a future government, yet at the same time they then add that "The matter is for the government to consider, and is [the government's] responsibility,"

Oh my I love these contradictions/hypocracy and simply feel sorry for the average Thai Farmer, be they yellow, white, red, purple or grey for that matter. When will someone in Thailand and Thai government and it's agenices be a normal adult and take some responsibility. Whilst the current governments pledgling scheme was a dummy from the start, the farmers should still be paid as the government was elected by the PEOPLE. It is besides the point if you are a winner or loser, or complain about vote buying and blah blah.. Face the facts that this is Thailand. We do exactly the same in the west re vote buying and then NOT delivering on election promises and the money dissapearing into the coffers to be never seen again. The only difference is, we say that, Oh yes, we will build a new road here and there, new hospitals, better infrastructure, transportation etc and then a lot of what is promised is dumped once the party is voted into power... No different and there is no argument, One is tangible in cash the other is "sometimes tangible in promises kept, it is still vote buying.

As the EC has does have the power to authorise these loans, they should do so for the benefit of the Thai nation as a whole. (As it stands they are effectively doing all they can to see Thailand go down the pipe due to some pompous ass elites who dont give two cares as to the rest of the NATION) Let the nation then vote the government out at the next elections. America has made their own people pay for failed policies, (and more then anyother country in history 4 years ago) as has England, Ireland and France. Is Thailand really that different from this point of view? I think not... Though my satangs worth is not yours... please go on...

I see them as not having the power to say no but to warn that if the loan goes ahead action could be taken. The same as in most countries a department or even a court cannot say something is actually ilegal. All they can do is warn that if it goes ahead it will go to court and in their view it would not be legal. That is the reason people are taken right through courts in many countries for fairly minor offences so there can be a precedent and clarity.

Further, if they do take out more loans and this is seen to be both illegal and beneficial to them in the subsequent election, the legal ramifications may well be dire. The election could be annulled, the party disbanded, executives barred, held accountable for the cost of a new election, and even jailed.

That is over and above the charges about to be laid by the NACC.

Edited January 22, 2014 by JRSoul

[Tatsujin]

Translation: you made your bed, now lie in it.

[kurtgruen]

As much as I feel for the farmers, some have been almost 5 months without payment. There is just over a week till the supposed election that PTP are so keen on seeing happen on feb 2nd.So why can't the PTP let the farmers wait another 11 days and keep everything legal? Obviously because it's another case of PTP's corruption, vote buying, and complete disregard for the law and then trying to put the blame on someone else.

the Feb. 2 election will not produce a quorum so I see no ability to make the loan then either.

The big question is what has the EC got to do with it. ?The payments were due in October when their was a legal government. They had the power.

They were to busy trying to white wash the PM brother that they did not have time to take care of their own people.

Every day, the protests continue is another nail in Phuea Thai's coffin. Between the protests in Bangkok and the protests of the rice farmers, along with all the information on social media (Facebook, etc.), Ms Yingluck is loosing her support base very fast. More, new information, is being released, from the above sources, every day.

[bigbamboo]

Whatever else happens Kittirat has to go for the sake of the country and what's left of it's image.

Lying and incompetence are simply not acceptable for a Finance minister of any country.

[honoluludave]

Who in their right mind is going to lend this government any money to do anything? Would not think they had the best credit

Edited January 22, 2014 by metisdead
Font

[soi41]

Not a supporter of the Shins, but find it sad to see NACC and EC, officially not political organisations, coming out of the woodworks to become "heroes" now, that the winds are changing!!

A little like:

On a sidenote: Was it really only 4 or 5 months ago, that Kittirat told the IMF to shut up, when warning about the rice-scam. "We know, what we are doing" Yeah sure!!

[animatic]

Quote " EC secretary-general Puchong Nutrawong said at a press conference yesterday that his agency had no authority to consider a request to approve additional loans to pay farmers owed money under the scheme. "The matter is for the government to consider, and is [the government's] responsibility," he said.

The EC's approval is required under Section 181 of the Constitution, which bans a caretaker government from making any decisions that could impose financial burdens on the next government". So on one hand section 181 of the constition states that a caretaker governement cannot make any decisions or impose a burden on a future government, yet at the same time they then add that "The matter is for the government to consider, and is [the government's] responsibility,"

Oh my I love these contradictions/hypocracy and simply feel sorry for the average Thai Farmer, be they yellow, white, red, purple or grey for that matter. When will someone in Thailand and Thai government and it's agenices be a normal adult and take some responsibility. Whilst the current governments pledgling scheme was a dummy from the start, the farmers should still be paid as the government was elected by the PEOPLE. It is besides the point if you are a winner or loser, or complain about vote buying and blah blah.. Face the facts that this is Thailand. We do exactly the same in the west re vote buying and then NOT delivering on election promises and the money dissapearing into the coffers to be never seen again. The only difference is, we say that, Oh yes, we will build a new road here and there, new hospitals, better infrastructure, transportation etc and then a lot of what is promised is dumped once the party is voted into power... No different and there is no argument, One is tangible in cash the other is "sometimes tangible in promises kept, it is still vote buying.

As the EC has does have the power to authorise these loans, they should do so for the benefit of the Thai nation as a whole. (As it stands they are effectively doing all they can to see Thailand go down the pipe due to some pompous ass elites who dont give two cares as to the rest of the NATION) Let the nation then vote the government out at the next elections. America has made their own people pay for failed policies, (and more then anyother country in history 4 years ago) as has England, Ireland and France. Is Thailand really that different from this point of view? I think not... Though my satangs worth is not yours... please go on...

The EC is saying,

EC also can not throw a further burden on the next government. So don't try and talk us into it.

PTP should have considered this BEFORE dissolving the Gov. and calling the election.

PTP could try and do it, but it will likely be illegal and they will be prosecuted.

It's your Gordian Knot of twine, hang your self with it if you want, but you are not taking us down with you.

Now this may tie in with the Emergency Decree.

It is an emergency, we have emergency powers, and we need the money, give it to us now.

If this becomes akin to Marshal Law, then they might imagine they have Totalitarian Control, and do as they please.

Ah, but last time Thaksin stepped this far the army stepped in.

Edited January 22, 2014 by animatic

[animatic]

Not a supporter of the Shins, but find it sad to see NACC and EC, officially not political organisations, coming out of the woodworks to become "heroes" now, that the winds are changing!!

A little like:rat-colour-just2.jpg

On a sidenote: Was it really only 4 or 5 months ago, that Kittirat told the IMF to shut up, when warning about the rice-scam. "We know, what we are doing" Yeah sure!!

In the best Thai manner they don't come out till they know which way the wind is blowing.

The locals don't begrudge them the delay, because this is how it works.

Yes about Kittirat, he's toast.

Edited January 22, 2014 by animatic

[Baerboxer]

Who in their right mind is going to lend this government any money to do anything? Would not think they had the best credit

Spot on Dave. That's why they're constantly trying to dream up new ways of creating revenue - arrival tax on foreigners, stripping banks, state funds and entities of their assets etc etc.

Their outgoings must be very high and with the gravy train currently derailed and the 2,2 trillion in abeyance, the cash flow just ain't there. The poor farmers will be way down the list of priority payments.

China is probably their best hope for a loan - although the terms will probably be akin to the merchant of Venice !

[tingtongteesood]

The rice is going to hit the fan, come on farmers, show the government how you really feel about them I feel sad for the farmers too but I am also glad in a way that it has opened a lot of their eyes to the truth of what is really going on. Hopefully they will learn from their mistakes. This whole election thing is really embarrassing for PT, every day they are making more and more rope to hang themselves.

[ggold]

Quote " EC secretary-general Puchong Nutrawong said at a press conference yesterday that his agency had no authority to consider a request to approve additional loans to pay farmers owed money under the scheme. "The matter is for the government to consider, and is [the government's] responsibility," he said.

The EC's approval is required under Section 181 of the Constitution, which bans a caretaker government from making any decisions that could impose financial burdens on the next government". So on one hand section 181 of the constition states that a caretaker governement cannot make any decisions or impose a burden on a future government, yet at the same time they then add that "The matter is for the government to consider, and is [the government's] responsibility,"

Oh my I love these contradictions/hypocracy and simply feel sorry for the average Thai Farmer, be they yellow, white, red, purple or grey for that matter. When will someone in Thailand and Thai government and it's agenices be a normal adult and take some responsibility. Whilst the current governments pledgling scheme was a dummy from the start, the farmers should still be paid as the government was elected by the PEOPLE. It is besides the point if you are a winner or loser, or complain about vote buying and blah blah.. Face the facts that this is Thailand. We do exactly the same in the west re vote buying and then NOT delivering on election promises and the money dissapearing into the coffers to be never seen again. The only difference is, we say that, Oh yes, we will build a new road here and there, new hospitals, better infrastructure, transportation etc and then a lot of what is promised is dumped once the party is voted into power... No different and there is no argument, One is tangible in cash the other is "sometimes tangible in promises kept, it is still vote buying.

As the EC has does have the power to authorise these loans, they should do so for the benefit of the Thai nation as a whole. (As it stands they are effectively doing all they can to see Thailand go down the pipe due to some pompous ass elites who dont give two cares as to the rest of the NATION) Let the nation then vote the government out at the next elections. America has made their own people pay for failed policies, (and more then anyother country in history 4 years ago) as has England, Ireland and France. Is Thailand really that different from this point of view? I think not... Though my satangs worth is not yours... please go on...

As the EC has does have the power to authorise these loans, they should do so for the benefit of the Thai nation as a whole.

The real question is what did PTP do with all the funds that should have gone to the rice farmers since October? You obviously want them to continue taking the money from the farmers!

[SICHONSTEVE]

Quote " EC secretary-general Puchong Nutrawong said at a press conference yesterday that his agency had no authority to consider a request to approve additional loans to pay farmers owed money under the scheme. "The matter is for the government to consider, and is [the government's] responsibility," he said.

The EC's approval is required under Section 181 of the Constitution, which bans a caretaker government from making any decisions that could impose financial burdens on the next government". So on one hand section 181 of the constition states that a caretaker governement cannot make any decisions or impose a burden on a future government, yet at the same time they then add that "The matter is for the government to consider, and is [the government's] responsibility,"

Oh my I love these contradictions/hypocracy and simply feel sorry for the average Thai Farmer, be they yellow, white, red, purple or grey for that matter. When will someone in Thailand and Thai government and it's agenices be a normal adult and take some responsibility. Whilst the current governments pledgling scheme was a dummy from the start, the farmers should still be paid as the government was elected by the PEOPLE. It is besides the point if you are a winner or loser, or complain about vote buying and blah blah.. Face the facts that this is Thailand. We do exactly the same in the west re vote buying and then NOT delivering on election promises and the money dissapearing into the coffers to be never seen again. The only difference is, we say that, Oh yes, we will build a new road here and there, new hospitals, better infrastructure, transportation etc and then a lot of what is promised is dumped once the party is voted into power... No different and there is no argument, One is tangible in cash the other is "sometimes tangible in promises kept, it is still vote buying.

As the EC has does have the power to authorise these loans, they should do so for the benefit of the Thai nation as a whole. (As it stands they are effectively doing all they can to see Thailand go down the pipe due to some pompous ass elites who dont give two cares as to the rest of the NATION) Let the nation then vote the government out at the next elections. America has made their own people pay for failed policies, (and more then anyother country in history 4 years ago) as has England, Ireland and France. Is Thailand really that different from this point of view? I think not... Though my satangs worth is not yours... please go on...

The EC does not have the power to sanction the loans - they haven't stopped the government at all from obtaining the money as they said go ahead and get them if you want. They have made it clear though that if they do then 'it is their responsibility alone to face the consequences if they are deemed to have been unlawful!!!

So THEY HAVE NOT blocked them have they!!

It is not for the benefit of the nation as a whole as this scheme is destroying the nation and it is right that those who engineered it's existence are held responsible for doing so in voting this rabble in- they were warned constantly that it would 'all end in tears' by Abhisit and other experts but they chose to believe Thaksin who has used them for his personal gain. They should wise up (it may be happening now) - I suppose better they learn now so that they don't make the same mistake again.

Trust those who know and understand politics (Democrats) and steer clear of opportunists who pretend that they are your dear friends, no need to tell you who that is.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Quote " EC secretary-general Puchong Nutrawong said at a press conference yesterday that his agency had no authority to consider a request to approve additional loans to pay farmers owed money under the scheme. "The matter is for the government to consider, and is [the government's] responsibility," he said.

The EC's approval is required under Section 181 of the Constitution, which bans a caretaker government from making any decisions that could impose financial burdens on the next government". So on one hand section 181 of the constition states that a caretaker governement cannot make any decisions or impose a burden on a future government, yet at the same time they then add that "The matter is for the government to consider, and is [the government's] responsibility,"

Oh my I love these contradictions/hypocracy and simply feel sorry for the average Thai Farmer, be they yellow, white, red, purple or grey for that matter. When will someone in Thailand and Thai government and it's agenices be a normal adult and take some responsibility. Whilst the current governments pledgling scheme was a dummy from the start, the farmers should still be paid as the government was elected by the PEOPLE. It is besides the point if you are a winner or loser, or complain about vote buying and blah blah.. Face the facts that this is Thailand. We do exactly the same in the west re vote buying and then NOT delivering on election promises and the money dissapearing into the coffers to be never seen again. The only difference is, we say that, Oh yes, we will build a new road here and there, new hospitals, better infrastructure, transportation etc and then a lot of what is promised is dumped once the party is voted into power... No different and there is no argument, One is tangible in cash the other is "sometimes tangible in promises kept, it is still vote buying.

As the EC has does have the power to authorise these loans, they should do so for the benefit of the Thai nation as a whole. (As it stands they are effectively doing all they can to see Thailand go down the pipe due to some pompous ass elites who dont give two cares as to the rest of the NATION) Let the nation then vote the government out at the next elections. America has made their own people pay for failed policies, (and more then anyother country in history 4 years ago) as has England, Ireland and France. Is Thailand really that different from this point of view? I think not... Though my satangs worth is not yours... please go on...

I see them as not having the power to say no but to warn that if the loan goes ahead action could be taken. The same as in most countries a department or even a court cannot say something is actually ilegal. All they can do is warn that if it goes ahead it will go to court and in their view it would not be legal. That is the reason people are taken right through courts in many countries for fairly minor offences so there can be a precedent and clarity.

Further, if they do take out more loans and this is seen to be both illegal and beneficial to them in the subsequent election, the legal ramifications may well be dire. The election could be annulled, the party disbanded, executives barred, held accountable for the cost of a new election, and even jailed.

That is over and above the charges about to be laid by the NACC.

Not looking very rosy for them is it - this government is in it's death throes and do you know what?? I'm supping up every bit of this delicious situation!!!

Victory is ours!!!! I wish Suthep a happy and peaceful retirement and now let's get to work in fixing the country.

[tim armstrong]

The government is well and truly stuffed. The EC is right not to take the responsibility away from the government.

[samuidave]

The distinction is between "government" and "caretaker government".

Quote " EC secretary-general Puchong Nutrawong said at a press conference yesterday that his agency had no authority to consider a request to approve additional loans to pay farmers owed money under the scheme. "The matter is for the government to consider, and is [the government's] responsibility," he said.

The EC's approval is required under Section 181 of the Constitution, which bans a caretaker government from making any decisions that could impose financial burdens on the next government". So on one hand section 181 of the constition states that a caretaker governement cannot make any decisions or impose a burden on a future government, yet at the same time they then add that "The matter is for the government to consider, and is [the government's] responsibility,"

Oh my I love these contradictions/hypocracy and simply feel sorry for the average Thai Farmer, be they yellow, white, red, purple or grey for that matter. When will someone in Thailand and Thai government and it's agenices be a normal adult and take some responsibility.

[Jasun]

The only thing more dangerous than a poor hungry farmer is a really poor hungry farmer.

[AleG]

Meanwhile the BP has some updates on this, seems that PTP has gone and screwed this pooch a little more and is going to proceed with a loan of 130 Billion to try and salvage its image. Kittirat remarks are beyond funny now, summarized: We have enough money to pay the farmers and we won't incur new debt, at the same time the cabinet endorsed a rise in the debt level from 1.316 to 1.324 Trillion Bah and proceeded to (attempt) a loan for 130 Billion.

So A ) No more debt 'cause we have the money, B ) we just incrased the debt and borrowed the money 'cause we don't have any left.

Mr. White Lie is not even trying now, his pants are not just in fire, they reached the temperature to undergo nuclear fusion.

Obviously this is an illegal maneuver, they are saddling the next government with more debt, clear as day.

[steveromagnino]

As the EC has does have the power to authorise these loans, they should do so for the benefit of the Thai nation as a whole.

I am not sure the EC does have that power.

As one of the people forced to pay for this scheme, many of us think the entire scheme should be declared insolvent, and the lies and corruption surrounding it completely exposed. It was PT's fault for calling a snap election without first resolving this issue which is an operational issue, nothing else. The reason why PT are pushing it onto EC is political, because they are trying to play the wounded matyr where 'everyone is against them'. Rather than admitting it's because the PM has attended 1 meeting as the head of the committee running the scheme; they have lied constantly about it; they have no real idea what is going on, and they refuse to take any responsibility for saddling us, the Thai taxpayers, with the bill. The bank oversight has been woeful, and they have run out of cash.

Why should the EC be complicit in acting beyond their authority in this house of cards - the wording of clause 181 is something like

there shall not be taken of any act resulting in the disbursement of reserved funds available for emergency or necessity, unless upon prior permission of the EC

- it's not an emergency (like a flood) or a necessity, it's government policy - on par with paying out first car tax benefits etc - this is definitely not an emergency, and it is not a necessity (like food, water, power) so it outside the control of the EC - it is part of the government process

- I don't think the funds were reserved anyhow

- it's a failure to budget that has caused this, join the rest of us stuck in queues for stuff that the government claims it would do and hasn't

Perhaps PT should read further in the same clause (which is why they want to release payment as it's an election bribe as blatant as the cheap tolls in the 2005 election heading north):

There shall not be any exploitation of state resources....for any act having impacts on an election

Edited January 22, 2014 by steveromagnino

[bigbamboo]

Who in their right mind is going to lend this government any money to do anything? Would not think they had the best credit

Spot on Dave. That's why they're constantly trying to dream up new ways of creating revenue - arrival tax on foreigners, stripping banks, state funds and entities of their assets etc etc.

Their outgoings must be very high and with the gravy train currently derailed and the 2,2 trillion in abeyance, the cash flow just ain't there. The poor farmers will be way down the list of priority payments.

China is probably their best hope for a loan - although the terms will probably be akin to the merchant of Venice !

The Chinese will be happy to help build and finance a railway through Thailand and Malaysia down to Singapore just as they have agreed with Myanmar to build a route through to India. They aren't interested in expensive high speed nonsense just a line where the trains stay upright on the tracks.

Whether that will appeal to the Thai government is another matter though.

[jaidam]

Can anybody explain to me how it was that the PTP had enough "spare" cash floating around in the govt coffers to increase Thaksin's wealth by 450% (as per his bragging in the Forbes article), but not enough to pay the farmers that voted his clan into office? Non-believers are having a hard time comprehending this govt's priorities.

[GentlemanJim]

Quote " EC secretary-general Puchong Nutrawong said at a press conference yesterday that his agency had no authority to consider a request to approve additional loans to pay farmers owed money under the scheme. "The matter is for the government to consider, and is [the government's] responsibility," he said.

The EC's approval is required under Section 181 of the Constitution, which bans a caretaker government from making any decisions that could impose financial burdens on the next government". So on one hand section 181 of the constition states that a caretaker governement cannot make any decisions or impose a burden on a future government, yet at the same time they then add that "The matter is for the government to consider, and is [the government's] responsibility,"

Oh my I love these contradictions/hypocracy and simply feel sorry for the average Thai Farmer, be they yellow, white, red, purple or grey for that matter. When will someone in Thailand and Thai government and it's agenices be a normal adult and take some responsibility. Whilst the current governments pledgling scheme was a dummy from the start, the farmers should still be paid as the government was elected by the PEOPLE. It is besides the point if you are a winner or loser, or complain about vote buying and blah blah.. Face the facts that this is Thailand. We do exactly the same in the west re vote buying and then NOT delivering on election promises and the money dissapearing into the coffers to be never seen again. The only difference is, we say that, Oh yes, we will build a new road here and there, new hospitals, better infrastructure, transportation etc and then a lot of what is promised is dumped once the party is voted into power... No different and there is no argument, One is tangible in cash the other is "sometimes tangible in promises kept, it is still vote buying.

As the EC has does have the power to authorise these loans, they should do so for the benefit of the Thai nation as a whole. (As it stands they are effectively doing all they can to see Thailand go down the pipe due to some pompous ass elites who dont give two cares as to the rest of the NATION) Let the nation then vote the government out at the next elections. America has made their own people pay for failed policies, (and more then anyother country in history 4 years ago) as has England, Ireland and France. Is Thailand really that different from this point of view? I think not... Though my satangs worth is not yours... please go on...

What the EC is saying is simple. If you want to get loans, then go ahead and on your head be it, as it is illegal. You seem to be OK with the fact that the Government are trying to get the EC to take all the flak by saying "OK go ahead'. It is illegal for the EC to do so and it is Illegal for the Government to go and get 'EXTRA' money, yet you seem to be siding with the Government and wanting a solution where they have no responsibility or accountability, just merely passing it all to the members of the EC. If the Government want to pay they can. Someone has to break the law, if the Government love their people so much why not just take responsibility and say 'pay them'. I wonder why? Funny eh!

[rickirs]

Quote " EC secretary-general Puchong Nutrawong said at a press conference yesterday that his agency had no authority to consider a request to approve additional loans to pay farmers owed money under the scheme. "The matter is for the government to consider, and is [the government's] responsibility," he said.

The EC's approval is required under Section 181 of the Constitution, which bans a caretaker government from making any decisions that could impose financial burdens on the next government". So on one hand section 181 of the constition states that a caretaker governement cannot make any decisions or impose a burden on a future government, yet at the same time they then add that "The matter is for the government to consider, and is [the government's] responsibility,"

Oh my I love these contradictions/hypocracy and simply feel sorry for the average Thai Farmer, be they yellow, white, red, purple or grey for that matter. When will someone in Thailand and Thai government and it's agenices be a normal adult and take some responsibility. Whilst the current governments pledgling scheme was a dummy from the start, the farmers should still be paid as the government was elected by the PEOPLE. It is besides the point if you are a winner or loser, or complain about vote buying and blah blah.. Face the facts that this is Thailand. We do exactly the same in the west re vote buying and then NOT delivering on election promises and the money dissapearing into the coffers to be never seen again. The only difference is, we say that, Oh yes, we will build a new road here and there, new hospitals, better infrastructure, transportation etc and then a lot of what is promised is dumped once the party is voted into power... No different and there is no argument, One is tangible in cash the other is "sometimes tangible in promises kept, it is still vote buying.

As the EC has does have the power to authorise these loans, they should do so for the benefit of the Thai nation as a whole. (As it stands they are effectively doing all they can to see Thailand go down the pipe due to some pompous ass elites who dont give two cares as to the rest of the NATION) Let the nation then vote the government out at the next elections. America has made their own people pay for failed policies, (and more then anyother country in history 4 years ago) as has England, Ireland and France. Is Thailand really that different from this point of view? I think not... Though my satangs worth is not yours... please go on...

I see them as not having the power to say no but to warn that if the loan goes ahead action could be taken. The same as in most countries a department or even a court cannot say something is actually ilegal. All they can do is warn that if it goes ahead it will go to court and in their view it would not be legal. That is the reason people are taken right through courts in many countries for fairly minor offences so there can be a precedent and clarity.

Do remember that the EC told Yingluck that she could not go forward to borrow funds for the rice subsidies unless the govenrment requested EC's approval. Now the EC says it doesn't have that authority BUT that the government does. Seems problem solved then. How does the EC's decision cause any obstacle to the Government? It actually allows the Government to move forward with borrowing. UNLESS the EC tells the government once again, it needs Consitutional Court approval? After which the CC will advise the Government that the CC doesn't have the authority? One must, however relunctantly, give Yingluck's administration a lot of credit for patience dealing with these "independent" agencies who seem only interested in creating barriers for effective government.

[northernjohn]

Who in their right mind is going to lend this government any money to do anything? Would not think they had the best credit

Spot on Dave. That's why they're constantly trying to dream up new ways of creating revenue - arrival tax on foreigners, stripping banks, state funds and entities of their assets etc etc.

Their outgoings must be very high and with the gravy train currently derailed and the 2,2 trillion in abeyance, the cash flow just ain't there. The poor farmers will be way down the list of priority payments.

China is probably their best hope for a loan - although the terms will probably be akin to the merchant of Venice !

The Chinese will be happy to help build and finance a railway through Thailand and Malaysia down to Singapore just as they have agreed with Myanmar to build a route through to India. They aren't interested in expensive high speed nonsense just a line where the trains stay upright on the tracks.

Whether that will appeal to the Thai government is another matter

It wont appeal to them as it was stated defiantly that it would bypass Chiang Mai as it is financially not feasible. but they were willing to put a spur line in to Chiang Rai.

[ratcatcher]

Quote " EC secretary-general Puchong Nutrawong said at a press conference yesterday that his agency had no authority to consider a request to approve additional loans to pay farmers owed money under the scheme. "The matter is for the government to consider, and is [the government's] responsibility," he said.

The EC's approval is required under Section 181 of the Constitution, which bans a caretaker government from making any decisions that could impose financial burdens on the next government". So on one hand section 181 of the constition states that a caretaker governement cannot make any decisions or impose a burden on a future government, yet at the same time they then add that "The matter is for the government to consider, and is [the government's] responsibility,"

Oh my I love these contradictions/hypocracy and simply feel sorry for the average Thai Farmer, be they yellow, white, red, purple or grey for that matter. When will someone in Thailand and Thai government and it's agenices be a normal adult and take some responsibility. Whilst the current governments pledgling scheme was a dummy from the start, the farmers should still be paid as the government was elected by the PEOPLE. It is besides the point if you are a winner or loser, or complain about vote buying and blah blah.. Face the facts that this is Thailand. We do exactly the same in the west re vote buying and then NOT delivering on election promises and the money dissapearing into the coffers to be never seen again. The only difference is, we say that, Oh yes, we will build a new road here and there, new hospitals, better infrastructure, transportation etc and then a lot of what is promised is dumped once the party is voted into power... No different and there is no argument, One is tangible in cash the other is "sometimes tangible in promises kept, it is still vote buying.

As the EC has does have the power to authorise these loans, they should do so for the benefit of the Thai nation as a whole. (As it stands they are effectively doing all they can to see Thailand go down the pipe due to some pompous ass elites who dont give two cares as to the rest of the NATION) Let the nation then vote the government out at the next elections. America has made their own people pay for failed policies, (and more then anyother country in history 4 years ago) as has England, Ireland and France. Is Thailand really that different from this point of view? I think not... Though my satangs worth is not yours... please go on...

"Whilst the current governments pledgling scheme was a dummy from the start, the farmers should still be paid as the government was elected by the PEOPLE. It is besides the point if you are a winner or loser, or complain about vote buying and blah blah.. Face the facts that this is Thailand. We do exactly the same in the west re vote buying and then NOT delivering on election promises and the money dissapearing into the coffers to be never seen again. The only difference is, we say that, Oh yes, we will build a new road here and there, new hospitals, better infrastructure, transportation etc and then a lot of what is promised is dumped once the party is voted into power.."

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There is a big difference in election promises where for example, schools, hospitals or roads are promised. That is infrastructure improvement. If, at a later date, the projects remain undelivered, there may be anger, disappointment etc, but the people have not suffered direct financial loss.

The rice pledging was a "scheme" and morphed into a scam. The farmers were promised artificially high prices for their grain and rightly expected payment upon delivery. They kept their side of the deal, even though to most people it was unsustainable in the real world. Plus, the corruption by all involved was bound to cripple it.

The government reneged on the deal and failed to guarantee sufficient funds available to pay for the incoming crops. Rice sales plummeted due to an oversupply and cheaper prices on the world market particularly from Thailand's neighbors. The Commerce department has consistently lied about G to G sales and stock totals This extremely poor planning by PTP and its leader Thaksin have led to this difficult nay ludicrous situation. It is 100% the fault of PTP's mismanagement that they are presently unable to find funds to pay the monies outstanding to the farmers. The EC is merely following the law and after being verbally abused by PTP members, they are naturally not bending over backwards to be cooperative.

It will only be the anger of the farmers that will truly slap the PTP in the face and wake them up to the reality of the situation. The chickens are at long last coming home to roost. How sweet it is.