Thai govt warned bond floating to pay rice farmers may break the law

[Briggsy]

Are these bonds going to be sold at a whacking discount? With a 15% coupon. I am in. How can I get hold of some?

[rametindallas]

IMO the only problem I see with this article is the fact that the Gov't bought the rice at a price higher than the market is right now. So no matter how much they sell, there's no way to fund all the payouts.

Any which way they try to spin this they're screwed

The Rice Scheme is a clear Pyramid Scheme, the farmers input x amount of wealth (in rice) expecting to get 2x in return while the money generated by the scheme is actually

In other countries the scheme itself, let alone any corruption, would be the subject of a criminal investigation.

Tell as where are you from and we will tell you how much your government spend for a agriculture subsidy and how much they loan for that.

Can you name one country paying 40% above World market price (besides Thailand) to their farmers? I thought not.

[Thai at Heart]

Are these bonds going to be sold at a whacking discount? With a 15% coupon. I am in. How can I get hold of some?

Me too.

[robblok]

IMO the only problem I see with this article is the fact that the Gov't bought the rice at a price higher than the market is right now. So no matter how much they sell, there's no way to fund all the payouts.

Any which way they try to spin this they're screwed

The Rice Scheme is a clear Pyramid Scheme, the farmers input x amount of wealth (in rice) expecting to get 2x in return while the money generated by the scheme is actually

In other countries the scheme itself, let alone any corruption, would be the subject of a criminal investigation.

Tell as where are you from and we will tell you how much your government spend for a agriculture subsidy and how much they loan for that.

Can you name one country paying 40% above World market price (besides Thailand) to their farmers? I thought not.

Of course not... but that is not even the worst of it.. by storing it not good there is a lot of loss. Then just think about the storage fees.. people should wish it was only 40%

[heina]

IMO the only problem I see with this article is the fact that the Gov't bought the rice at a price higher than the market is right now. So no matter how much they sell, there's no way to fund all the payouts.

Any which way they try to spin this they're screwed

The Rice Scheme is a clear Pyramid Scheme, the farmers input x amount of wealth (in rice) expecting to get 2x in return while the money generated by the scheme is actually

In other countries the scheme itself, let alone any corruption, would be the subject of a criminal investigation.

Tell as where are you from and we will tell you how much your government spend for a agriculture subsidy and how much they loan for that.

Can you name one country paying 40% above World market price (besides Thailand) to their farmers? I thought not.

Can you prove these payments 40% above market price for thai rice? BCAA receipts are OK, i think you do not. Whats is source of your information?

[Thait Spot]

IMO the only problem I see with this article is the fact that the Gov't bought the rice at a price higher than the market is right now. So no matter how much they sell, there's no way to fund all the payouts.

Any which way they try to spin this they're screwed

The Rice Scheme is a clear Pyramid Scheme, the farmers input x amount of wealth (in rice) expecting to get 2x in return while the money generated by the scheme is actually

In other countries the scheme itself, let alone any corruption, would be the subject of a criminal investigation.

Tell as where are you from and we will tell you how much your government spend for a agriculture subsidy and how much they loan for that.

Can you name one country paying 40% above World market price (besides Thailand) to their farmers? I thought not.

Can you prove these payments 40% above market price for thai rice? BCAA receipts are OK, i think you do not. Whats is source of your information?

The world mate.

Go look in Blomberg or the Thai commodity exchange

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[ggold]

The government's show it is willing to risk for the sack of the well being of rice farmers. While the oppositions focuses on their continuous suppression of rice farmers.

The government is not risking the sack, they are risking jail. However, if they don't get the money to buy some votes, they won't be re-elected, and face an even higher risk of jail time as the police and AG now in their pockets are forced to carry out their lawful duties.

Worse still; they may lose their assets when they are forced to pay compensation for the rice scam. Expect suicides rather than years of incarceration as a pauper.

Read carefully, the government is willing to risk for the sack of the well being of rice farmers. And, I am sure at all cost on an ongoing rice pleading scheme.

Read carefully, the government is willing to risk for the sack of the well being of rice farmers. And, I am sure at all cost on an ongoing rice pleading scheme.

Me thinks too much ear medicine to coin a phrase from Chalerm. Tried reading it didn't make much sense.

I think it is the sacks of rice the government have risked from day one. The government belong in Jail for the well being of the rice Farmers! Now the rice Farmers are pleading for their money.

Edited January 23, 2014 by ggold

[AleG]

The Rice Scheme is a clear Pyramid Scheme, the farmers input x amount of wealth (in rice) expecting to get 2x in return while the money generated by the scheme is actually

In other countries the scheme itself, let alone any corruption, would be the subject of a criminal investigation.

Tell as where are you from and we will tell you how much your government spend for a agriculture subsidy and how much they loan for that.

Can you name one country paying 40% above World market price (besides Thailand) to their farmers? I thought not.

Can you prove these payments 40% above market price for thai rice? BCAA receipts are OK, i think you do not. Whats is source of your information?

Hey, Heina, before you go asking questions, I'm waiting for you to tell me what my country spends in subsidies and how much it loans to for that.

When you are done with that please let me know what does that have to do with the PTP government breaking the law here in Thailand.

Thank you three times.

[SOTIRIOS]

...why is nobody asking where all the allocated money has disappeared to.....

[heina]

The Rice Scheme is a clear Pyramid Scheme, the farmers input x amount of wealth (in rice) expecting to get 2x in return while the money generated by the scheme is actually

In other countries the scheme itself, let alone any corruption, would be the subject of a criminal investigation.

Tell as where are you from and we will tell you how much your government spend for a agriculture subsidy and how much they loan for that.

Can you name one country paying 40% above World market price (besides Thailand) to their farmers? I thought not.

Can you prove these payments 40% above market price for thai rice? BCAA receipts are OK, i think you do not. Whats is source of your information?

Hey, Heina, before you go asking questions, I'm waiting for you to tell me what my country spends in subsidies and how much it loans to for that.

When you are done with that please let me know what does that have to do with the PTP government breaking the law here in Thailand.

Thank you three times.

All of countries subsidy their agriculture and farmers except of IMF slaves. You can find dozen of them at Africa, Latin america and Asia. Farmers "enjoy" their living and working conditions up there. Thai democrat party and ex prime minister Lekpai put the country on that shit but fortunately his time is over. EU spend about 30 percent of budget to farmers. As well as US, Japan, Switzerlan, Canada, Oz, Nz. Hard to remind amount now but it is all public information and can be easy found on official budget sources. On this world there is no "free markets". This is dog eat dog world.

No you show evidences as mentioned.

PS. Does not clear what law have broke. Make it clear please. Civil code, commercial code, what article, etc

[AleG]

All of countries subsidy their agriculture and farmers except of IMF slaves. You can find dozen of them at Africa, Latin america and Asia. Farmers "enjoy" their living and working conditions up there. Thai democrat party and ex prime minister Lekpai put the country on that shit but fortunately his time is over. EU spend about 30 percent of budget to farmers. As well as US, Japan, Switzerlan, Canada, Oz, Nz. Hard to remind amount now but it is all public information and can be easy found on official budget sources. On this world there is no "free markets". This is dog eat dog world.

No you show evidences as mentioned.

PS. Does not clear what law have broke. Make it clear please. Civil code, commercial code, what article, etc

So you have no idea what you are talking about, roger that.

[pipkins]

All of countries subsidy their agriculture and farmers except of IMF slaves. You can find dozen of them at Africa, Latin america and Asia. Farmers "enjoy" their living and working conditions up there. Thai democrat party and ex prime minister Lekpai put the country on that shit but fortunately his time is over. EU spend about 30 percent of budget to farmers. As well as US, Japan, Switzerlan, Canada, Oz, Nz. Hard to remind amount now but it is all public information and can be easy found on official budget sources. On this world there is no "free markets". This is dog eat dog world.

No you show evidences as mentioned.

PS. Does not clear what law have broke. Make it clear please. Civil code, commercial code, what article, etc

So you have no idea what you are talking about, roger that.

So that is a difinitive list for you AleG

I often ask them the same. Like name any Government projects in the World, let alone Thailand that come in on budget. Did the Dems projcect all come in on budget?

You have your answer there. They just have this dream that somehow a kangaroo court can say, bad yingluk and kick her out in place of Suthep. they can't of course, but is does not stop them trying.

Gov. figures looking very good on world bank statistics... but hey, what they know against knee jerk on line posters on Thai visa?

Totally normal for things not to go as planned and the falling rice price didn't help. Sure it was the same with all the Palm oil a few years ago, but nobody wants to talk about that.

So give you an easy way for you to expand on your great one liner. it is called "google" thats 2 "O's: and no whistles.

Then try to use "Google" to find out about thailand a bit more about well, anything really.

[AleG]

All of countries subsidy their agriculture and farmers except of IMF slaves. You can find dozen of them at Africa, Latin america and Asia. Farmers "enjoy" their living and working conditions up there. Thai democrat party and ex prime minister Lekpai put the country on that shit but fortunately his time is over. EU spend about 30 percent of budget to farmers. As well as US, Japan, Switzerlan, Canada, Oz, Nz. Hard to remind amount now but it is all public information and can be easy found on official budget sources. On this world there is no "free markets". This is dog eat dog world.

No you show evidences as mentioned.

PS. Does not clear what law have broke. Make it clear please. Civil code, commercial code, what article, etc

So you have no idea what you are talking about, roger that.

So that is a difinitive list for you AleG

I often ask them the same. Like name any Government projects in the World, let alone Thailand that come in on budget. Did the Dems projcect all come in on budget?

You have your answer there. They just have this dream that somehow a kangaroo court can say, bad yingluk and kick her out in place of Suthep. they can't of course, but is does not stop them trying.

Gov. figures looking very good on world bank statistics... but hey, what they know against knee jerk on line posters on Thai visa?

Totally normal for things not to go as planned and the falling rice price didn't help. Sure it was the same with all the Palm oil a few years ago, but nobody wants to talk about that.

So give you an easy way for you to expand on your great one liner. it is called "google" thats 2 "O's: and no whistles.

Then try to use "Google" to find out about thailand a bit more about well, anything really.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

[Robby nz]

It was recently that the storage and handling costs over 2 years were 90 billion.

Go look for it yourself, if you had been following the rice debacle you would know these things.

[gabruce]

The government's show it is willing to risk for the sack of the well being of rice farmers. While the oppositions focuses on their continuous suppression of rice farmers.

Are you from Calgary, by any chance?

Nope.

wierd question. I didn't know that Alberta had a big rice industry. A little wild rice maybe.

[tingtongteesood]

The government's show it is willing to risk for the sack of the well being of rice farmers. While the oppositions focuses on their continuous suppression of rice farmers.

Quite obvious that with the Coup stuttering and the Judicial Coup mired due to the exposure of the EC and CC members and their affiliations.

So, all focus is on the rice and trying to get the farmers to boost Sutheps flagging numbers.

Bond issued and the bond holder not the tax payer stands the risk? Illegal? Crazy and smacks of desperation from the anti dems and media here continually hang on the word of the very people (judges) who want the coup to work.

All the evidence is of the Courts and Suthep and EC holding up the rice payments. The farmers will see that, and if not, up to them. Just more Elite posturing from the Suthep side.

More they speak out the more they appear to be colluding. Let em speak and let the media disgrace itself even more by giving these nuts airtime and news inches. Discredits the media more than the Government.

Yet more complete crap from red sheeple. ''Wah wah Taksin doesn't get what he wants, it must be part of some big conspiracy wah wah !!!''

Nope, they are doing their jobs and unlike PT and Taksin they are following the rule of law. Just because you and they don't like it, doesn't mean it is wrong. They should be commended for following the rules and doing their jobs properly.

[slapout]

The AG bank has mentioned several times in press releases as to the cost of the rice program vs amount of rice shown/reproted pledged up front for disbursment of monies. The figure was more than 29,000 baht/ton. Storage, treament, monitoring, etc costs will add to this figure on a monthly time frame.

Any criminal charges could be based on several points in the orginal program,front money allowances, specifications, limits, lack of limits, lack of monitoring etc. The most glaring, which have been publically documented.

1 The use of blacklist compan8ies for storage.

2 The allowance for up to 20% grain loss, during transport

3.The corruption found in the 'Blue flag' rice for the poor, by auditors. (this program has since been discontinued)

4. The blantent lack of checks claimed by the Commerce Ministry, on the stored rice/paddy at the several thouand facilities involved.

Just these 4 criminal acts should ensure a goodly portion of the various cabinets we have seen, are jailed, their assets siezed as per law for government officials corruption, and those who were involved with them.

[robblok]

The AG bank has mentioned several times in press releases as to the cost of the rice program vs amount of rice shown/reproted pledged up front for disbursment of monies. The figure was more than 29,000 baht/ton. Storage, treament, monitoring, etc costs will add to this figure on a monthly time frame.

Any criminal charges could be based on several points in the orginal program,front money allowances, specifications, limits, lack of limits, lack of monitoring etc. The most glaring, which have been publically documented.

1 The use of blacklist compan8ies for storage.

2 The allowance for up to 20% grain loss, during transport

3.The corruption found in the 'Blue flag' rice for the poor, by auditors. (this program has since been discontinued)

4. The blantent lack of checks claimed by the Commerce Ministry, on the stored rice/paddy at the several thouand facilities involved.

Just these 4 criminal acts should ensure a goodly portion of the various cabinets we have seen, are jailed, their assets siezed as per law for government officials corruption, and those who were involved with them.

I really hope so that finally some people get jailed for stuff like this.. the cherry on top would be if Yinluck gets jailed.. but I wont hold my breath. It would be great to finally see some corrupt officials in jail. This should of course be done for ALL corrupt officials not just red ones but its a good start. Better then to say nobody is jailed ever why start now its political, I would say a precedent would be great.

[icommunity]

The government's show it is willing to risk for the sack of the well being of rice farmers. While the oppositions focuses on their continuous suppression of rice farmers.

Quite obvious that with the Coup stuttering and the Judicial Coup mired due to the exposure of the EC and CC members and their affiliations.

So, all focus is on the rice and trying to get the farmers to boost Sutheps flagging numbers.

Bond issued and the bond holder not the tax payer stands the risk? Illegal? Crazy and smacks of desperation from the anti dems and media here continually hang on the word of the very people (judges) who want the coup to work.

All the evidence is of the Courts and Suthep and EC holding up the rice payments. The farmers will see that, and if not, up to them. Just more Elite posturing from the Suthep side.

More they speak out the more they appear to be colluding. Let em speak and let the media disgrace itself even more by giving these nuts airtime and news inches. Discredits the media more than the Government.

Yet more complete crap from red sheeple. ''Wah wah Taksin doesn't get what he wants, it must be part of some big conspiracy wah wah !!!''

Nope, they are doing their jobs and unlike PT and Taksin they are following the rule of law. Just because you and they don't like it, doesn't mean it is wrong. They should be commended for following the rules and doing their jobs properly.

What are you talking about? tingtong here tintong there.

[rubl]

The government's show it is willing to risk for the sack of the well being of rice farmers. While the oppositions focuses on their continuous suppression of rice farmers.

The government is not risking the sack, they are risking jail. However, if they don't get the money to buy some votes, they won't be re-elected, and face an even higher risk of jail time as the police and AG now in their pockets are forced to carry out their lawful duties.

Worse still; they may lose their assets when they are forced to pay compensation for the rice scam. Expect suicides rather than years of incarceration as a pauper.

Read carefully, the government is willing to risk for the sack of the well being of rice farmers. And, I am sure at all cost on an ongoing rice pleading scheme.

Yes, even if that means that after borrowing 500 billion for a non-revolving fund, borrowing a wee bit more and borrowing even a little bit more than a wee bit more, they need to borrow another 130 billion. All OUTSIDE the National budget.

Now if only those billions had really reached the rice farmers, especially the smaller ones.

[rametindallas]

The government's show it is willing to risk for the sack of the well being of rice farmers. While the oppositions focuses on their continuous suppression of rice farmers.

The government is not risking the sack, they are risking jail. However, if they don't get the money to buy some votes, they won't be re-elected, and face an even higher risk of jail time as the police and AG now in their pockets are forced to carry out their lawful duties.

Worse still; they may lose their assets when they are forced to pay compensation for the rice scam. Expect suicides rather than years of incarceration as a pauper.

Read carefully, the government is willing to risk for the sack of the well being of rice farmers. And, I am sure at all cost on an ongoing rice pleading scheme.

Read carefully, the government is willing to risk for the sack of the well being of rice farmers. And, I am sure at all cost on an ongoing rice pleading scheme.

Me thinks too much ear medicine to coin a phrase from Chalerm. Tried reading it didn't make much sense.

I think it is the sacks of rice the government have risked from day one. The government belong in Jail for the well being of the rice Farmers! Now the rice Farmers are pleading for their money.

icommunity, I am going to rewrite your post to hopefully clarify your meaning. I sincerely hope I get your meaning correctly. Please let me know if I get it right or wrong. Here goes (I will underline where I've made changes to your original):

Read carefully, the government is willing to risk for the sake of the well-being of rice farmers. And, I am sure at all cost (I have no idea what you are trying to say here) on an ongoing rice pledging scheme.

If you can clear up that part in red, I can understand you better.

[rametindallas]

The Rice Scheme is a clear Pyramid Scheme, the farmers input x amount of wealth (in rice) expecting to get 2x in return while the money generated by the scheme is actually

In other countries the scheme itself, let alone any corruption, would be the subject of a criminal investigation.

Tell as where are you from and we will tell you how much your government spend for a agriculture subsidy and how much they loan for that.

Can you name one country paying 40% above World market price (besides Thailand) to their farmers? I thought not.

Can you prove these payments 40% above market price for thai rice? BCAA receipts are OK, i think you do not. Whats is source of your information?

Hey, Heina, before you go asking questions, I'm waiting for you to tell me what my country spends in subsidies and how much it loans to for that.

When you are done with that please let me know what does that have to do with the PTP government breaking the law here in Thailand.

Thank you three times.

All of countries subsidy their agriculture and farmers except of IMF slaves. You can find dozen of them at Africa, Latin america and Asia. Farmers "enjoy" their living and working conditions up there. Thai democrat party and ex prime minister Lekpai put the country on that shit but fortunately his time is over. EU spend about 30 percent of budget to farmers. As well as US, Japan, Switzerlan, Canada, Oz, Nz. Hard to remind amount now but it is all public information and can be easy found on official budget sources. On this world there is no "free markets". This is dog eat dog world.

No you show evidences as mentioned.

PS. Does not clear what law have broke. Make it clear please. Civil code, commercial code, what article, etc

Are you proud of you ignorance? You must be since you are so insistent on displaying it. The US government spent $20 Billion on farm subsidies to farmers in 2013 out of a total expenditure of $3.45 Trillion. That is 0.005797101%. Less than 6/one thousanths of one percent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_subsidy http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_United_States_federal_budget

You're so busy asking for proof, where is any proof backing up you ignorant claims? BTW the EU is not a country and its budget has nothing to do with individual member states' spending on infrastructure, military, social services, etc. If you can't raise the quality of your posts by writing what you know about rather than what you have an opinion on, I shall ignore you.

[icommunity]

This is a respose to

rametindallas, on 23 Jan 2014 - 20:41, said:

icommunity, I am going to rewrite your post to hopefully clarify your meaning. I sincerely hope I get your meaning correctly. Please let me know if I get it right or wrong. Here goes (I will underline where I've made changes to your original):

Read carefully, the government is willing to risk for the sake of the well-being of rice farmers. And, I am sure at all cost (I have no idea what you are trying to say here) on an ongoing rice pledging scheme.

If you can clear up that part in red, I can understand you better.

My reply

I was figuratively saying that regardless of the difficulties, threat of legal action included, to secure the fund needed to pay an ongoing rice pledging scheme.

The figurative "at all cost" was used to mean that the government is sincere in solving the late payment to rice farmers.

My response was in the context of the threat that bond floating to pay rice farmers may break the law and that the farmers should not be victimized by some technicality or technical ambiguity.

I need help from anyone who knows how to response after exceeded the maximum quote

Edited January 23, 2014 by icommunity

[belg]

if they give double intrest rates than other banks, i might risk a few baht investing in it, loooooooooooooool

[icommunity]

IMO the only problem I see with this article is the fact that the Gov't bought the rice at a price higher than the market is right now. So no matter how much they sell, there's no way to fund all the payouts.

Any which way they try to spin this they're screwed

The Rice Scheme is a clear Pyramid Scheme, the farmers input x amount of wealth (in rice) expecting to get 2x in return while the money generated by the scheme is actually

In other countries the scheme itself, let alone any corruption, would be the subject of a criminal investigation.

Tell as where are you from and we will tell you how much your government spend for a agriculture subsidy and how much they loan for that.

Can you name one country paying 40% above World market price (besides Thailand) to their farmers? I thought not.

Can you tell why most rice farmers in Thailand were at poverty level before TRT/Thaksin stepped in?

[icommunity]

IMO the only problem I see with this article is the fact that the Gov't bought the rice at a price higher than the market is right now. So no matter how much they sell, there's no way to fund all the payouts.

Any which way they try to spin this they're screwed

The Government did not at any time said it is a profit making scheme. It is a scheme to raise the quality of life of rice farmers. This will encourage the younger general into rice farming to support the national food security plan. Rice farming has been supporting the growth and expansion of related industries.

[AleG]

IMO the only problem I see with this article is the fact that the Gov't bought the rice at a price higher than the market is right now. So no matter how much they sell, there's no way to fund all the payouts.

Any which way they try to spin this they're screwed

The Government did not at any time said it is a profit making scheme. It is a scheme to raise the quality of life of rice farmers. This will encourage the younger general into rice farming to support the national food security plan. Rice farming has been supporting the growth and expansion of related industries.

How dare you contradict Thaksin?

"We do not just throw away the money," Thaksin said. "The programme will lead to higher government revenue through the sale of stockpiled grain, increased local consumption and will help cushion Thailand from the effects of the European debt crisis," he said.

Pray tell, what are those industries showing expansion? Rice storage, pest control and offshore assets management companies?

[icommunity]

IMO the only problem I see with this article is the fact that the Gov't bought the rice at a price higher than the market is right now. So no matter how much they sell, there's no way to fund all the payouts.

Any which way they try to spin this they're screwed

The Government did not at any time said it is a profit making scheme. It is a scheme to raise the quality of life of rice farmers. This will encourage the younger general into rice farming to support the national food security plan. Rice farming has been supporting the growth and expansion of related industries.

How dare you contradict Thaksin?

"We do not just throw away the money," Thaksin said. "The programme will lead to higher government revenue through the sale of stockpiled grain, increased local consumption and will help cushion Thailand from the effects of the European debt crisis," he said.

Pray tell, what are those industries showing expansion? Rice storage, pest control and offshore assets management companies?

Thaksin made the assessment during an interview and it was his personal opinion not the Government. It was his opinion based on his prediction on global food production of the time. If I am contradicting Thaksin, who cares?

It was his personal opinion but not the op

[tingtongteesood]

IMO the only problem I see with this article is the fact that the Gov't bought the rice at a price higher than the market is right now. So no matter how much they sell, there's no way to fund all the payouts.

Any which way they try to spin this they're screwed

The Government did not at any time said it is a profit making scheme. It is a scheme to raise the quality of life of rice farmers. This will encourage the younger general into rice farming to support the national food security plan. Rice farming has been supporting the growth and expansion of related industries.

If everyone got paid 40% over the price their goods are worth of course they are raised out of poverty temporarily - however now the whole country is being plunged into a spiral of debt and it has a huge excess of an overpriced commodity nobody will buy because they can get the same elsewhere 40% cheaper. Alright, forget about business and profit, how does it help the country when there is no money left to pay for hospitals, education etc etc. because it has all been pissed away paying the farmers to create the rice mountain, how does this benefit the country in general ? It benefits PT because it keeps their voter base happy. And screw the rest of you. Fiscal stupidity of the worst kind...

[JRSoul]

Can you tell why most rice farmers in Thailand were at poverty level before TRT/Thaksin stepped in?

That's what happens when you are inefficiently employed in an uneconomic industry. Small holdings farmed labour-intensively to produce a low value crop will always result in poverty, especially when competing with broad-acre mechanised farming, unless somebody gives you a huge subsidy of other tax-payers money (stuff them, they vote for someone else).

The problem is, rather than encouraging more efficient production or a switch to higher value crops/industry, it actually encourages more people to join the uneconomic industry (but with their vote, so that's OK).

Edited January 23, 2014 by JRSoul