Group warns US against simplistic view of Thai conflict

[Thai at Heart]

Is there like a bulletin board somewhere that says "talk to farangs, talk to US". Or perhaps they are relying on foxs news to sing their gospel. Deutsche Welle it won't be.

To me it looks like Thailands foreign relations are being handled as "hey you white boy, hear us out".

"

Yes, so strange. Almost otherworldly. Why so many Thais across the spectrum of education credentials here (and abroad) are so concerned with what non-Thais think of them. But, their concern does seem to match with their pathetic and persistent attention to Thailand's image at the expense of anything else much more important than image.

A country full of people who cannot shake their

nationalism (as opposed to patriotism which does not really exist in Thailand),

focus on image over substance - I've seen NO Thais opinions that are well-informed and intellectually sound and that goes for all the biggest personalities here like 'Dr. Seri' for example

FACE as something so hide behind rather than something to motivate their society to be honorable

Thailand is a most bizarre place indeed. To the Westerner living here for any extended period of time, it would be no big secret as to why Thailand is so un developed (as opposed to developing as I do NOT agree they are developing, not in any significantly important area).

Sad country.

Maybe it's partly because they as protesters aren't 100% sure about what they are doing. It wouldn't be uncommon for a few to have some doubt and so it be very important to put out the line that "we know more, and you farangs better shut up".

No one wants anyone to really start discussing whether this action is correct.

Apparently educated sheeple. Doesn't matter lower, middle or upper class, the vast majority of Thais can be led by anyone with the merest charisma and position . no one dares to ask "why?". they just follow.

[Thai at Heart]

there are smart people in every every country, just as there are stupid ones. But the question is, can the smart people live up to who they are? As we all know, the education in Thailand doesn't embrace critical thinking and/or questioning. It stops right there for most, as they simply give up on themselves and become apathetic. Add the financial status (or the lack thereof) to the mix and they'd get bullied for being (too) poor (and therefore stupid), and would never get a chance to achieve anything, even if they wanted to.

The smart ones have to fit in too.

Could you imagine being the smartest 25 year one lecturer in this place? It would make you suicidal.

Just look at the nonsense respected academic Dr. Seri just spouted. If you dared to ask"why do you think that?", they would just fire you.

[PaullyW]

there are smart people in every every country, just as there are stupid ones. But the question is, can the smart people live up to who they are? As we all know, the education in Thailand doesn't embrace critical thinking and/or questioning. It stops right there for most, as they simply give up on themselves and become apathetic. Add the financial status (or the lack thereof) to the mix and they'd get bullied for being (too) poor (and therefore stupid), and would never get a chance to achieve anything, even if they wanted to.

The smart ones have to fit in too.

Could you imagine being the smartest 25 year one lecturer in this place? It would make you suicidal.

Just look at the nonsense respected academic Dr. Seri just spouted. If you dared to ask"why do you think that?", they would just fire you.

Important similarities to North Korea, sadly. Even in China people resist and fight. Some pay the ultimate price with their lives, but at least many are brave enough to stand up for their convictions. My biggest criticism of Thais is that almost NOBODY is brave enough to discuss the biggest topics (and, just to be clear, I'm not talking about the topic we are never to comment on) in Thai society. They are weak-willed and unwilling to make sacrifice.

Edited January 23, 2014 by PaullyW

[pxlgirl]

Just look at the nonsense respected academic Dr. Seri just spouted. If you dared to ask"why do you think that?", they would just fire you.

It's pretty much a "master/slave" mentality, asking any questions is a big no-no! You must do as the boss says, no matter how stupid their decision is. As for work ethics, this country is decades behind the west. Sad, but true, unfortunately.

[PaullyW]

Just look at the nonsense respected academic Dr. Seri just spouted. If you dared to ask"why do you think that?", they would just fire you.

It's pretty much a "master/slave" mentality, asking any questions is a big no-no! You must do as the boss says, no matter how stupid their decision is. As for work ethics, this country is decades behind the west. Sad, but true, unfortunately.

Decades?!

The entire Age of Enlightenment missed Thailand. That makes it at least a few hundred years behind. I hold that Thailand being so very ancient is the main driver for so many being so interested and at the same time disgusted by Thailand and Thai culture.

Edited January 23, 2014 by PaullyW

[Thai at Heart]

there are smart people in every every country, just as there are stupid ones. But the question is, can the smart people live up to who they are? As we all know, the education in Thailand doesn't embrace critical thinking and/or questioning. It stops right there for most, as they simply give up on themselves and become apathetic. Add the financial status (or the lack thereof) to the mix and they'd get bullied for being (too) poor (and therefore stupid), and would never get a chance to achieve anything, even if they wanted to.

The smart ones have to fit in too.

Could you imagine being the smartest 25 year one lecturer in this place? It would make you suicidal.

Just look at the nonsense respected academic Dr. Seri just spouted. If you dared to ask"why do you think that?", they would just fire you.

Important similarities to North Korea, sadly. Even in China people resist and fight. Some pay the ultimate price with their lives, but at least many are brave enough to stand up for their convictions. My biggest criticism of Thais is that almost NOBODY is brave enough to discuss the biggest topics (and, just to be clear, I'm not talking about the topic we are never to comment on) in Thai society. They are weak-willed and unwilling to make sacrifice.

I have a feeling it is very similar to.pre-revolution china.

Horrendously corrupt, riven with class separation, uneven judiciary and a landed class apart, who ran everything.

I despair to read the nation anymore, and this endless line that thainess is unique when Thais exist to serve the most base human desires at a whim is beyond me.

We Thais are so unique but we are horrendously greedy, <deleted> like rabbits and eat 10 times a day???? It's like a study in basic animal instinct. They even fight in packs for gods sake. There is little or nothing to analyse in any of it and if you dare, the mob will beat you up anyway.

Enormously sophisticated huh? And yet no one dares to ask for one second if Suthep has an ulterior motive. It really makes you wonder how gullible these people really are. It's like the stupid person who gets conned over the phone.

But Suthep told us he would take care of us, but now look.... We lost democracy......Trust a thai pooyai? My lord. What a thought.

Sheeple. Pure and simple, who are proud to be smarter than their farming brethren. It's like watching an ant farm with their ranks.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[englishoak]

There are plenty of smart Thais just like anywhere, a large problem is they cannot speak how they please here so in the main have made better lives for themselves where they can grow and be themselves. I have many Thai friends in other countries and nearly all feel as the majority here do, Elections must be kept as sacred to any process of choosing a governing body.

It is only in a closed inward looking society these crazy ideas fester, the British made the mistake hundreds of years ago by keeping themselves separate when trying to rule another country and fiegning superiority, it dosnt work in the long term.

The Chinese had this crazy idea that they descended from a different gene-pool than the rest that came out of Africa, they did the largest genetic DNS survey ever undertaken to prove that they were different and therefore superior and special. The scientist who took this on was convinced at the outset this was true, after a good 500k samples ranging from all over China there was not one that showed any different genetic DNA pool than the rest of us forcing him by sheer weight of evidence to conclude he had been wrong all the time. There was nothing genetically on a historical basis different at all.

The parent or in this case the society a person grows up in will mould a lot of that persons make up, get them out of that environment they will turn out very different, a few years as a student abroad youd think would be great until you realise that 90% stick with Thais, speak Thai and eat Thai the whole time they are away, therefore it helps little in affecting their thinking, attitude or tastes. They come back and carry right on being as arrogant, the only reason they arnt seen as that while away is they do not mix much outside their own small circle of elite buddies and girlfriends. Generally they come back as limited in thinking as they were before they left but will wave that bit of paper about and pretend they are worldly wise, this is far from the case although this isnt true about all it is true about the majority I have come to know or crossed paths with both here and back at home.

True indeed. I, too, know many Thais who live abroad or younger Thais who go to school outside of Thailand. And, just a short point - I am so often let down by their persisting nationalism and arrogance. I find it scary that so many seem unable or uninterested to expand their thinking. One always has such high hopes for what should be reasonably modern people who, if nothing else, are open to honest discussion (both positive AND negative) regarding Thailand. But, I find that many (if not most) I know seem to be perhaps even more nationalistic than their 'less educated', less traveled countrymen. I do not encounter the same attitudes from people hailing from other under developed countries. Something about Thai nationalism is so powerful that has even 'elite', 'international', 'educated' Thais, on average, unable to actually mature in their views at all.

It's one of the reasons I really don't have any desire to get close to any Thais (and esp not Thai men who, by virtue of being male & Thai, have nothing I need). I've been let down so many times that I stopped trying. Thais and reasonably educated Westerners simply do not mix well.

It is a fault that many nations have in seeing or admitting the bad as well as the good. I come across this in a lot of nationalities not just Thais but do admit it prevails more in Asia than elsewhere from those i would call well off. It does seem a bit of wealth of which Asia has been getting in the last decade is having a negative effect on how they see themselves.

This isnt anything new and it was the Europeans that had this mentality when they had the wealth to go around the world comparing themselves to others less fortunate. People tend to believe that once they have a good standard of living compared to others they are in some way mentally or nationally superior. This of course is only partly true where education is concerned and often they get so wrapped up in the pursuit of money and business they miss out on growing and nurturing the soul and heart to go along with the bank account.

Asia has worked hard to attain what the west has to offer in terms of materialism. This in itself isnt bad but I do believe they have become corrupted by it and are leaving behind the very thing that they have had to offer the world and that is unity and tolerance. Not many Asian counties in the last few centuries have gone to war with each other and in that is a fierce nationalism simply because they have not assimilated many other cultures traits into their own. The ones that did have been forced to do so, but overall learned there is a lot that has been worth keeping and they lead in Asia. Thailand has managed to avoid all of this but at the same time also missed out and repeatedly refuses to adopt policies that would benefit it.

Even China in the recent past has looked and understood there is much it can take and use to its benefit, it gets the economic model and benefits, the text book subjects. Yet still lacks creativity and original ideas, or the finesse of negotiation and cooperation with other races unless it involves money. Thailand being mostly Chinese/Thai business led follow this model and it is strange in a Buddhist country, the will to learn about the world they live in seems to be lacking. They are happier in their bubble than they are swimming in the open water. This follows the saying it is better to be a big fish in a small pond rather than a small fish in the ocean I suppose.

It is mainly insecurity and an inability to accept there is more to learn than what a text book can teach, most of all they need to understand and learn it is ok to be wrong for thats how we learn and evolve ideas and grow. We are all wrong from time to time, I am on a daily basis and Thais find it quite embarrassing when I apologise to them for something, be it a misunderstanding, personal or work related but it does have a profound effect on them in how they interact with me afterwards, they are far more cooperative and relaxed with me after realising i am not bothered about face or unaccepting of responsibility when i am at fault, indeed they seem to respond very well yet they dont learn from it or say sorry back when they mess up, they still tend to pass the buck . i have rarely had a Thai apologise to me or even see it much with each other. It just isnt easy for them to say sorry and seems to be held by them as some kind of failure, if they do admit being wrong 9 out of 10 times they will avoid me after at all costs.

I dont see the conflict as complicated at all, it is simply one side deciding they are right and an inability to accept they may certainly in part be wrong and admitting it to anyone. If they did then the guard would drop and negotiations would be far easier. This is the same as telling the US it dosnt understand rather than actually realising the US has been there and rather than let it all come crashing down first it could learn something from another's past mistakes.

Often a child thinks its blazing a new trail yet as it matures realises it was only walking a well trodden path. Thailand is that child and at the moment it is acting like a stubborn and spoilt teenager.

Edited January 24, 2014 by englishoak

[Thai at Heart]

There are plenty of smart Thais just like anywhere, a large problem is they cannot speak how they please here so in the main have made better lives for themselves where they can grow and be themselves. I have many Thai friends in other countries and nearly all feel as the majority here do, Elections must be kept as sacred to any process of choosing a governing body.

It is only in a closed inward looking society these crazy ideas fester, the British made the mistake hundreds of years ago by keeping themselves separate when trying to rule another country and fiegning superiority, it dosnt work in the long term.

The Chinese had this crazy idea that they descended from a different gene-pool than the rest that came out of Africa, they did the largest genetic DNS survey ever undertaken to prove that they were different and therefore superior and special. The scientist who took this on was convinced at the outset this was true, after a good 500k samples ranging from all over China there was not one that showed any different genetic DNA pool than the rest of us forcing him by sheer weight of evidence to conclude he had been wrong all the time. There was nothing genetically on a historical basis different at all.

The parent or in this case the society a person grows up in will mould a lot of that persons make up, get them out of that environment they will turn out very different, a few years as a student abroad youd think would be great until you realise that 90% stick with Thais, speak Thai and eat Thai the whole time they are away, therefore it helps little in affecting their thinking, attitude or tastes. They come back and carry right on being as arrogant, the only reason they arnt seen as that while away is they do not mix much outside their own small circle of elite buddies and girlfriends. Generally they come back as limited in thinking as they were before they left but will wave that bit of paper about and pretend they are worldly wise, this is far from the case although this isnt true about all it is true about the majority I have come to know or crossed paths with both here and back at home.

True indeed. I, too, know many Thais who live abroad or younger Thais who go to school outside of Thailand. And, just a short point - I am so often let down by their persisting nationalism and arrogance. I find it scary that so many seem unable or uninterested to expand their thinking. One always has such high hopes for what should be reasonably modern people who, if nothing else, are open to honest discussion (both positive AND negative) regarding Thailand. But, I find that many (if not most) I know seem to be perhaps even more nationalistic than their 'less educated', less traveled countrymen. I do not encounter the same attitudes from people hailing from other under developed countries. Something about Thai nationalism is so powerful that has even 'elite', 'international', 'educated' Thais, on average, unable to actually mature in their views at all.

It's one of the reasons I really don't have any desire to get close to any Thais (and esp not Thai men who, by virtue of being male & Thai, have nothing I need). I've been let down so many times that I stopped trying. Thais and reasonably educated Westerners simply do not mix well.

It is a fault that many nations have in seeing or admitting the bad as well as the good. I come across this in a lot of nationalities not just Thais but do admit it prevails more in Asia than elsewhere from those i would call well off. It does seem a bit of wealth of which Asia has been getting in the last decade is having a negative effect on how they see themselves.

This isnt anything new and it was the Europeans that had this mentality when they had the wealth to go around the world comparing themselves to others less fortunate. People tend to believe that once they have a good standard of living compared to others they are in some way mentally or nationally superior. This of course isnt true and often they get so wrapped up in the pursuit of money and business they miss out on growing and nurturing the soul and heart to go along with the bank account.

Asia has worked hard to attain what the west has to offer in terms of materialism. This in itself isnt bad but I do believe they have become corrupted by it and are leaving behind the very thing that they have had to offer the world and that is unity and tolerance. Not many Asian counties in the last few centuries have gone to war with each other and in that is a fierce nationalism simply because they have not assimilated many other cultures traits into their own. The ones that did have been forced to do so, but overall learned there is a lot that has been worth keeping and they lead in Asia. Thailand has managed to avoid all of this but at the same time also missed out and repeatedly refuses to adopt policies that would benefit it.

Even China in the recent past has looked and understood there is much it can take and use to its benefit, it gets the economic model and benefits, the text book subjects. Yet still lacks creativity and original ideas, or the finesse of negotiation and cooperation with other races unless it involves money. Thailand being mostly Chinese/Thai business led follow this model and it is strange in a Buddhist country, the will to learn about the world they live in seems to be lacking. They are happier in their bubble than they are swimming in the open water. This follows the saying it is better to be a big fish in a small pond rather than a small fish in the ocean I suppose.

It is mainly insecurity and an inability to accept there is more to learn than what a text book can teach, most of all they need to understand and learn it is ok to be wrong for thats how we learn and evolve ideas and grow. We are all wrong from time to time, I am on a daily basis and Thais find it quite embarrassing when I apologise to them for something, be it a misunderstanding, personal or work related but it does have a profound effect on them in how they interact with me afterwards, they are far more cooperative and relaxed with me after realising i am not bothered about face or unaccepting of responsibility when i am at fault, indeed they seem to respond very well yet they dont learn from it or say sorry back when they mess up, they still tend to pass the buck . i have rarely had a Thai apologise to me or even see it much with each other. It just isnt easy for them to say sorry and seems to be held by them as some kind of failure, if they do admit being wrong 9 out of 10 times they will avoid me after at all costs.

I dont see the conflict as complicated at all, it is simply one side deciding they are right and an inability to accept they may certainly in part be wrong and admitting it to anyone. If they did then the guard would drop and negotiations would be far easier. This is the same as telling the US it dosnt understand rather than actually realising the US has been there and rather than let it all come crashing down first it could learn something from another's past mistakes.

Often a child thinks its blazing a new trail yet as it matures realises it was only walking a well trodden path. Thailand is that child and at the moment it is acting like a stubborn and spoilt teenager.

I think this line about the farangs not understanding, is as much to silence the thais and limit discussion among themselves.

We have all heard "don't think too mutt". It really is a case of the pooyai telling the people not to "think too mutt", and to trust his superior knowledge.

Support me, but a don't ask why, because you wouldn't understand it if I explained it to you.

[tsnyder]

then there was Ferdinand Marcos ... elected by majority and thrown out by people power ...

I agree with the premise that elected governments that break the law have themselves thrown away their legitimacy ...

And the philipines is now corruption free?

Just as was Thailand before thaksin? At least he spread money to the impoverished north or don't you have access to Google or independent media?

No, it's not corruption free, but it is less.

Irregardless, there were a lot more problems, besides corruption, by Marcos (and repeated by Thaksin in Thailand).

There are many, many similarities between Marcos and Thaksin.

Thousands of human rights violations comes to the forefront.

[tomyummer]

..."It's proven ppl w/ yellow skin are smarter than ppl w/ white skin... Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates."

And Thais continue to buy skin and teeth whitener.

[Pops]

The way these people carry on like nobody outside knows what is going on amazes me. The Americans probably know what Suthep has for breakfast even before he does.

They might even have paid for it ?

[puck2]

I think the time has come to accept that when well educated Thais advise foreigners that they should not take a simplistic view this almost inevitably means the Thais concerned cannot bring themselves to face up to some simple truths (as seems to be the case with these medics).The fact is I have never seen any informed Western source (and certainly not the US State Department) suggest the current conflict is the result of class warfare.Clearly there are a host of quite complicated factors involved.At the same time there is obviously an element of class conflict, its weight and significance being a matter of legitimate discussion between reasonable people.No point in denying its existence altogether.

I have recently been reading about the causes of World War 1.Even at a distance of 100 years there is a huge amount of controversy among historians about this.Do we really believe that we can be confident to have simple ready made answers to the causes of the current Thai crisis?

Class warefare Really ? To what kind of class does Thaksin belong to?

Mainly interest conflicts ! That's why we have a Thaksinocracy at now. And that's democrazy.

[puck2]

It is an Anti-Democratic movement, as the constitutions has a vehicle to "impeach" the PM for any illegal acts she may have committed, That is how a Democracy works,

The protesters have voiced opposition to a free and open election and have questioned the one-person, one vote principal of the current Thai democracy,

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, That what it is!

Cheers

There are always people believing there is democracy in a bottle when the lable contains the word "democracy".

The formalists will never try to have a look into the bottle. And so do many embassies and journalists.

[tingtongteesood]

It is an Anti-Democratic movement, as the constitutions has a vehicle to "impeach" the PM for any illegal acts she may have committed, That is how a Democracy works,

The protesters have voiced opposition to a free and open election and have questioned the one-person, one vote principal of the current Thai democracy,

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, That what it is!

Cheers

If that is correct then why hasn't she been impeached ? They are not anti democratic, they are anti corruption. An election now would be riddled with corruption so it is totally pointless and resolves nothing.

[BuddyPinkham]

As if the US Ambassador has even a tiny clue of what is really going on. She is more interested in photo ops and dinner parties than anything else.

[ggold]

Simplistic view following simplistic behavior of a SE asian nation of simpletons. I'd like to see why they think the world should view Thai politics as rocket science.

By the time its finished, the global opinion of all the players in this mess will be that they are all corrupt, loopy, extremists and reactionaries.

The phrase "respected academic, respected statesman", is going to be followed with a collective giggle at a cocktail party. They want to be taken seriously while failing to act even like juveniles.

With the lack of cogent arguments and plans they absolutely deserve to be patronised.

By the time its finished, the global opinion of all the players in this mess will be that they are all corrupt, loopy, extremists and reactionaries.

Global opinion understood that fact many years ago!

[Bender]

"...Dr Seri"

and you dare to call him to call him doctor , wonder what should be my title?

President Bender, well i like it!

more seriously, asian people are only good for copy... thats a pure fact. Do you expect the hiv cure to be found in asia, honestly? It will be either in western Europe or USA. (Well they might found the generic version )

He is a Dr, though I also think what he reputedly said was extremely ignorant. I'm pretty sure you're not a President, though admittedly I wouldn't rule out the Bush lineage.

As for the HIV cure, yeah maybe - the use of chemotherapy as a cure was pioneered by an asian gentleman for example, despite him not being white!

Do you know where paper, printing, the compass and gunpowder originated?

"Do you know where paper, printing, the compass and gunpowder originated?"

So i am right?

1.look around you, anything that goes from the fridge to the vacuum cleaner,

anything that goes from the microship to the motor/engine,

anything that goes from to the atom to the moon,

anything that goes from the micro to the macro

anything that goes from how to build properly a house to how to build properly a road

anything that goes from your cells to your DNA

yes anything you have around you, any big or small discovery in these last centuries has western guy behind it.... except for the gunpowder, and other minor stuff.

What i found, not ignorant, but extremely arrogant( the right terms) is some yellow monkey come and claims that yellow people are more smart than the white... and you back this!

At least we, white people, are humble.

2. I guess you never set a foot in a university, for my part i did study 5 years science.... Amongs hundred of mathematics/physics formula/study that i did learn, not one has discovered by an asian guys.... but mostly by western people like Galilee, Newton, Bohr, Poincarre, Mendeliev, Einstein, Euler, .... the list is long. And if you add fields like biology, medecine, chemistry,... etc. The contribution to the human knowledge, "by farang" is huge!

3. Look at country like China, over 1.3 billions, few thousands years civilisation and in 2014 they are not even able to build properly a car, when in the western world we did send for few decades already satelitte int the space, mastered the atom etc etc... it sums it all! No need to expand

Yes i do found this Seri really dumb and arrogant, but you rwdrwdrwd i found you really ignorant. Without Europe you would be actually living in a cave, whipping your ass with a stone, dying at the age of 30 yo because of flu....

Before you open it, just have a look at this link http://www.adherents.com/people/100_scientists.html and per pity, keep it quiet, please keep it quiet on this subject!

[hansnl]

The way these people carry on like nobody outside knows what is going on amazes me. The Americans probably know what Suthep has for breakfast even before he does.

Oh yes, that is for certain.

But knowing something is not the same as understanding.

And let us face it.

The US has shown in past times to be a champion in choosing wrong sides.

And damn the consequences.

If you are from any country, go to the US, and see your country disappear............

In my view, the US government does not even try to understand any country.

They just try to force any country to accept the US-style democracy.

Any other kind of government is no good.........

[Thai at Heart]

The way these people carry on like nobody outside knows what is going on amazes me. The Americans probably know what Suthep has for breakfast even before he does.

Oh yes, that is for certain.

But knowing something is not the same as understanding.

And let us face it.

The US has shown in past times to be a champion in choosing wrong sides.

And dam_n the consequences.

If you are from any country, go to the US, and see your country disappear............

In my view, the US government does not even try to understand any country.

They just try to force any country to accept the US-style democracy.

Any other kind of government is no good.........

Well thais believe they are unique. They just haven't worked out why yet, or come up with an argument that holds water.

[LarryBird]

As if the US Ambassador has even a tiny clue of what is really going on. She is more interested in photo ops and dinner parties than anything else.

<1% chance she knows less of the situation than you do. Whatever is happening here isn't complex with the right intelligence, which guess what, she's privy to.

[pantareiyingluck]

The way these people carry on like nobody outside knows what is going on amazes me. The Americans probably know what Suthep has for breakfast even before he does.

Oh yes, that is for certain.

But knowing something is not the same as understanding.

And let us face it.

The US has shown in past times to be a champion in choosing wrong sides.

And dam_n the consequences.

If you are from any country, go to the US, and see your country disappear............

In my view, the US government does not even try to understand any country.

They just try to force any country to accept the US-style democracy.

Any other kind of government is no good.........

HansNL would be HansD (Germany) without America's intervention. You have a limited memory, buddy.

[F430murci]

As if the US Ambassador has even a tiny clue of what is really going on. She is more interested in photo ops and dinner parties than anything else.

What's there to understand? Trying to paint this situation as complex or difficult to understand is either: (1) a reflection on the utter's intellect and inability to understand something rather simple; or (2) a reflection the utter's decision to remain in denial because reality is inconsistent with utter's outward agenda.

Sorry to say this ain't rocket science.

[Thai at Heart]

As if the US Ambassador has even a tiny clue of what is really going on. She is more interested in photo ops and dinner parties than anything else.

A little look at wikileaks would suggest that the USA embassy is far more privy to discussion and information than you or I will ever be.

For gods sake, do you really think that the thai military does too much without first letting the USA know what they are up to?

[rogerdee123]

It is an Anti-Democratic movement, as the constitutions has a vehicle to "impeach" the PM for any illegal acts she may have committed, That is how a Democracy works,

The protesters have voiced opposition to a free and open election and have questioned the one-person, one vote principal of the current Thai democracy,

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, That what it is!

Cheers

There are always people believing there is democracy in a bottle when the lable contains the word "democracy".

The formalists will never try to have a look into the bottle. And so do many embassies and journalists.

whatever was in that bottle, Charlem probably drank it already

[Publicus]

As if the US Ambassador has even a tiny clue of what is really going on. She is more interested in photo ops and dinner parties than anything else.

Ambassador Kristie Kenney was a senior foreign service officer of the State Department who is the first US female ambassador to Thailand and before that she was ambassador to the Philippines and to Ecuador.

Ms Kenny previously served on the staff of the National Security Council at the White House and as the State Department Executive Secretary. She speaks Spanish and French and her husband is also a career senior foreign service officer and veteran ambassador. Ms Kenney has diplomas from Clemson University and Tulane University.

Ambassador Kenney's boss, the Assistant Secretary of State for Asia Pacific Affairs, Daniel R Russel, was Special Assistant to the President and White House National Security Staff Senior Director for Asian Affairs. Mr Russel whose East Asia diplomatic experience goes back to 1985, has diplomas in international relations from Sarah Lawrence College and University College, University of London, UK.

Each is a professional State Department senior foreign service officer with experience in the field and in senior positions in the White House and State Department. Their jobs also include professional socializing and some professional photo ops.

And it's no secret that individually Ambassador Kenney and the prime minister of Thailand spend time on the phone with prez, er, former SecState Hillary Clinton.

[Yunla]

"They are calling for a strengthening of the democratic system, which, among other things, seeks to give tougher safeguards against corruption and abuse of power by elected officials," the group said in the letter.

This is a highly admirable goal, and I'm sure that most of the protestors believe this is the inevitable outcome of removing PTP from power. However I don't believe that the people pushing the buttons behind the overthrow-movement, would be in a big hurry to have their own powers curtailed or their corrupt practices examined, if they somehow get into government again.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Yunla

[Publicus]

On Stage 12th of Jan, Vera a protest leader had another explanation than "logic" why Farangs don't get it:

12:45 at Asoke protest stage, media personality Seri Wongmontha veers into anti-foreigner rant. "Do they think we're stupid?" (Cont'd)

"It's proven ppl w/ yellow skin are smarter than ppl w/ white skin... Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates."

Collapse [/b]

We are just too dumb to understand Thainess, maybe the network of medical volunteers can add that to their little letter.

"Do they think we're stupid?"

Is that a rhetorical question?

Interesting thing is, he is right about one thing. Asian students in North American universities, on average, do a lot better than their white counterparts. When my daughter did her Pre-med, she noticed it too and kept saying how smart Asian people are and how easy knowledge seems to come to them.

Then, when we took our Thai, teenage daughter, to Canada, to do her middle school, she had almost straight A's, (except for a B or two), in her second year. That was, after skipping a year, because they wanted her in the same age group, so she jumped a grade ahead in Canada and still excelled.

On the average yes.

But then look at the thai academic results and you realise that Asia is a very big place.

Bear in mind that these so called academics went through the thai system 30 years ago. They might be better educated than their other thais which doesn't maybe doesn't amount to a whole hill of beans.

Comparing thais with Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan and Korea is chalk and cheese.

A bright Thai student who graduated from a Grade 1-12 bilingual school in Bangkok and the International Program at Mahidol U worked for a European corporation in Bangkok before entering the London School of Economics from which he soon was gone. He regularly sought my counsel but all I could do was to try to explain to him what was going on, limited as I was from here in the former LOS and never myself having experienced the LSE.

Most perplexing to the Thai adult learner with experience in the corporate world was the reading and reading and reading everyone had to do. LSE learners are expected to do the readings on their own, independent research, to evaluate and synthesize the readings and research into a coherent whole that presents something both new and original, if not earth shattering.

Nope, not a chance.

It was clear to both he and I that he needed to go to class, get lectured, regurgitate the lecture for the A grade he was used to getting for attending class and looking interested in the lecture then regurgitating it on the sterile Thai exam from the numbnuts Thai professor and the G-12 teachers at the Thai school.

Diagnosis: Irreversible brain damage.

[Thai at Heart]

On Stage 12th of Jan, Vera a protest leader had another explanation than "logic" why Farangs don't get it:

12:45 at Asoke protest stage, media personality Seri Wongmontha veers into anti-foreigner rant. "Do they think we're stupid?" (Cont'd)

"It's proven ppl w/ yellow skin are smarter than ppl w/ white skin... Thais who study abroad get better marks than their classmates."

Collapse [/b]

We are just too dumb to understand Thainess, maybe the network of medical volunteers can add that to their little letter.

"Do they think we're stupid?"

Is that a rhetorical question?

Interesting thing is, he is right about one thing. Asian students in North American universities, on average, do a lot better than their white counterparts. When my daughter did her Pre-med, she noticed it too and kept saying how smart Asian people are and how easy knowledge seems to come to them.

Then, when we took our Thai, teenage daughter, to Canada, to do her middle school, she had almost straight A's, (except for a B or two), in her second year. That was, after skipping a year, because they wanted her in the same age group, so she jumped a grade ahead in Canada and still excelled.

On the average yes.

But then look at the thai academic results and you realise that Asia is a very big place.

Bear in mind that these so called academics went through the thai system 30 years ago. They might be better educated than their other thais which doesn't maybe doesn't amount to a whole hill of beans.

Comparing thais with Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan and Korea is chalk and cheese.

A bright Thai student who graduated from a Grade 1-12 bilingual school in Bangkok and the International Program at Mahidol U worked for a European corporation in Bangkok before entering the London School of Economics from which he soon was gone. He regularly sought my counsel but all I could do was to try to explain to him what was going on, limited as I was from here in the former LOS and never myself having experienced the LSE.

Most perplexing to the Thai adult learner with experience in the corporate world was the reading and reading and reading everyone had to do. LSE learners are expected to do the readings on their own, independent research, to evaluate and synthesize the readings and research into a coherent whole that presents something both new and original, if not earth shattering.

Nope, not a chance.

It was clear to both he and I that he needed to go to class, get lectured, regurgitate the lecture for the A grade he was used to getting for attending class and looking interested in the lecture then regurgitating it on the sterile Thai exam from the numbnuts Thai professor and the G-12 teachers at the Thai school.

Diagnosis: Irreversible brain damage.

I found university a culture shock after school, and yes it was an enormous amount of reading.

But your story mimics a close family friend if our who studied in australia. Just too much reading expected.

[DrDweeb]

Yingluck was seen recently on CNN, in a clip so unclear, she had to be accompanied by captions. And yet those who read the captions needn't have bothered. She doesn't actually say anything. She may as well be speaking in Swahili. There was a belligerence in her tone, however, as if she is fed up to the teeth with people who can't understand that her administration is just doing its job. The problem - as always - regarding the American and international perception of the situation here - is that it can't possibly be condensed into the 30 second soundbite. The problem with Yingluck - is that she is still struggling to fill the 30 seconds.

that really did bring something to the debate didn't it. Well done.

Dispicable that you should critisise her language, ... unless of course you post a youtube clip within 5 minutes of you reading out your last sentence in thai!!! I asume you have got past tow rai? at the bar or eig nung? We'll call BS on you and await the clip.

The critisism of these medics is agianst what they said and what they think. It is outdated elitiest, sexist tosh and the more they talk with Americans, the more likely Americans are going to see through them. Espescially when Congressman turner googles them and finds the hideous comments from the stage last week.

As it is a re-hash it also shows signs of the media getting desparate for news that backs up their cause of undermining the Government.

So, look forward to the clip of your great Thai masterclass

Errr. YL is, according to reports, a graduate of an American university. I would think that it is not an unreasonable expectation for people to expect that she has (a) a command of the English language and ( sufficient intelligence to utter coherent, logical thoughts in that language.

It may be that criticism of the particular university in question and that institutions willingness to accept TS money for his daughter's niece's "sister's" education is in order as well.

Criticising her language skills and her apparent intellectual skills is completely in order.

I do not speak thai, but I have heard she is equally unimpressive in Thai.

[Scott]

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