Stickmanbangkok Article Makes My Stomach Turn

[austallia_1980]

Here

"One close friend did the dirty with one particular girl a number of times who he truly believed (and to this day still does not know) that she was in her early '20s, when in fact she was only 15 at the time. "

I have only been here a short amount of time, but I cant possible imagine mistaking a 15 year old for 20 year old. Seems much more likely that he didnt want to know the truth.

BTW, someone should tell Stickman that many countries have laws against their nationals sleeping w/ anyone less then 18 abroad.

[ovenman]

BTW, someone should tell Stickman that many countries have laws against their nationals sleeping w/ anyone less then 18 abroad.

Did you actually read the entire article or simply pull that one quote?

[Mighty Mouse]

Young girls wearing full make up do look a lot older than they really are.

If these girls are working girls and their potential customer is full of terps, then it would be quite easy for the customer to think that he has a girl of legal age.

[Soju]

BTW, someone should tell Stickman that many countries have laws against their nationals sleeping w/ anyone less then 18 abroad.

Which countries are you referring to? I'm only familiar with the US law, but that law does not say what you are saying. The US law makes it illegal for a US citizen to pay for sex with someone under 18 while abroad. Paying for sex and sleeping with someone are not necessarily the same thing. Many countries have the age of consent set to less than 18, and also it is legal in many if not most countries to marry before the age of 18, albeit with parental consent in many cases. Are you to say that in these cases a legally married couple where one of them was under 18 would be breaking the law if they travelled to Thailand and slept together? For US citizens, as long as the couple is married, there is no problem with them sleeping together anyplace in world. If not married, the law states that she must be at least 16. If she's a prostitute and you're paying for her, then the age is 18.

I'm totally against underage prostitution as very often the girls are forced into it against their will and such laws are designed to try to reduce the demand for these girls by making it a crime for the man to participate. I fully support such efforts. But let's not confuse underage prostitution with married couples or commited partners where one of them may be 16 or 17 years old. You may want to criticize such young couples as being foolish for marrying so early, but to brand them as paedophiles is wrong as long as they are in love and abiding by the laws.

I'm not trying to sound critical at all of your post, just trying to inform people of what the law really says.

[Ulysses G.]

The other day, I saw an absolutely stunning girl putting up a poster across the street from a restaurant that I frequent.

All the Thai waiters and I were just staring in amazement.

I have lived in Thailand for many years and taught students of different ages and I was sure that she couldn't be any older than 16 years old, but the boys knew her and told me that she is 25. They even pointed out that she was wearing a University uniform which I hadn't thought about before.

It is VERY easy to get confused about the age of Thai people, and it is sick to ruin a man's life for making such a mistake with a willing sex-worker who is old enough to get married and have children and often has.

[Soju]

The other day, I saw an absolutely stunning girl putting up a poster across the street from a restaurant that I frequent.

All the Thai waiters and I were just staring in amazement.

I have lived in Thailand for many years and taught students of different ages and I was sure that she couldn't be any older than 16 years old, but the boys knew her and told me that she is 25. They even pointed out that she was wearing a University uniform which I hadn't thought about before.

It is VERY easy to get confused about the age of Thai people, and it is sick to ruin a man's life for making such a mistake with a willing sex-worker who is old enough to get married and have children and often has.

My wife is a university student but has a very young looking face, combined with her being very petite, leads many people to think she's quite young. Thais normally seem to know how old she is, but farangs I've met in Thailand often ask me how old she is. They seem relieved after I tell them as they first assume she's 16 or younger. At first it bothered me a bit knowing that many of these farangs were thinking that I was paying for an underage girl, while the truth was that we are married and she's totally legal (21 years old). These days I try to not let it bother me. I'm sure many people on the streets who never have a chance to talk to us are thinking and continue to think the worst of our situation.

[thohts]

or how about the ~25 year-olds that you think are still teenagers who are actually ~25?

[jdinasia]

Just a wind-up thread ....

hel_l I can't tell the age of any asian with great accuracy ...

and as often as my partner and I meet new people .. listening to them figure out who is older is a riot! He's had 18 y/o's call him nong and 35y/o's call him pee

[simon43]

My wife is petite, (145cm short!) and, until her recent pregnancy, weighed about 33kg. Many people think she is under 18, and I get some looks for being a dirty old man etc. But she is actually 29 years old and now has 2 children. So looks can be VERY deceiving!!

[OldAsiaHand]

My wife is rather embarassed every time she is in the States, orders a drink, and is told she must show identification to prove that she is old enough to drink. She was even asked for ID once when buying wine in a supermarket.

She is forty years old.

[ProfessorFart]

If it can happen to an experienced bloke like Bill Wyman then it can happen to anyone!

To the OP, I don't think that Stickman was in anyway endorsing this kind of thing. Merely highlighting the fact that is happens.

[Tippaporn]

It is VERY easy to get confused about the age of Thai people, and it is sick to ruin a man's life for making such a mistake with a willing sex-worker who is old enough to get married and have children and often has.

Well put, UG.

[ZZZ]

BTW, someone should tell Stickman that many countries have laws against their nationals sleeping w/ anyone less then 18 abroad.

Which countries are you referring to? I'm only familiar with the US law, but that law does not say what you are saying. The US law makes it illegal for a US citizen to pay for sex with someone under 18 while abroad.

Many countries also make it illegal to pay for sex, ANY AGE, if you are a govenment employee. I think this goes for US Armed forces and people employed at the US Embassy.

[LindsayBKK]

I worked with a swedish guy in Australia who lived in Bangkok for 5 years and took a girl home only to find she was a boy. He did say to me "she was one of the prettiest girls he had ever seen" "Oh I mean he was" I think that is more common that finding out he or she is underage. In Thailand girls look like boys and boys look like girls

Ask for ID or proof of age, if not I think most people know what the penalties are.

His life was ruined cause the girl lied about her age to get work as a prostitute? He didn't do his homework thats why. He was lucky he got to go home to a nice US jail for 2 years. Let's not be concerned about young people working for sex to get money, yes let's only worry about the poor farang who knows what Thailand is offering. yeah right! Som Nam Nah!

Speaking of underage, the Australian Government is to pass a new law banning people taking pictures of children using camera or mobile phones in public places like beaches,pools, parks etc. Even Olympic swimmer Ian Thorpe has voiced his concern. Where is all this political correctness to end?

[Cassandra]

It is VERY easy to get confused about the age of Thai people, and it is sick to ruin a man's life for making such a mistake with a willing sex-worker who is old enough to get married and have children and often has.

Well put, UG.

What a depressing exchange.I wonder whether either of these two understand how creepy their views are? Probably not.

[chanchao]

> I have only been here a short amount of time, but I cant

> possible imagine mistaking a 15 year old for 20 year old.

I can. 14 year old even. People are people and not machines, they don't all age the same way. Recall one 14 year old who was very tall by Thai (adult) standards, also voluptuous by Thai (adult) standards.. Then some people just have a shy/non-shy demeanor making them look younger/older than they are.

Bottom line: ID cards are a very useful thing in Thailand.

> Seems much more likely that he didnt want to know the truth

That's always a possibility of course. But then people are mostly attracted by looks, not by numbers.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[KhunMarco]

> I have only been here a short amount of time, but I cant

> possible imagine mistaking a 15 year old for 20 year old.

I can. 14 year old even. People are people and not machines, they don't all age the same way. Recall one 14 year old who was very tall by Thai (adult) standards, also voluptuous by Thai (adult) standards.. Then some people just have a shy/non-shy demeanor making them look younger/older than they are.

Bottom line: ID cards are a very useful thing in Thailand.

> Seems much more likely that he didnt want to know the truth

That's always a possibility of course. But then people are mostly attracted by looks, not by numbers.

Cheers,

Chanchao

Yup most of the thais do age so farking well it's almost unbelievable, must be all that spicy food cleaning their blood...

[Griffin]

ID cards are tricky as they can show Thai numbers. I can recognise 1-10 but 1985 or 2528 could be a problem.

What would happen then?

[jdinasia]

well strangely ... all numbers above 9 have the numbers 1-10 in them ....

remembering what to subtract from 2549 aint that big of an issue either

[Griffin]

I bow to your wisdom JD. True colours shown. What size shoe are you? I'm not so sure its that simple, but I don't know for a fact.

Anyone with a good grasp of Thai numbers may be able to shed light on this. It goes without saying that looking at any document that is totally in a different language is going to be tricky, especially when one is in a dark/flashing bar after a few beers.

[chonabot]

Whilst in the local Waitrose last week , my wife was asked for ID in order to buy cigarettes.

You have to be 16 or older in the UK. She is 34.

I am a young looking 40 but this explains some of the looks I have had in over 8 years marriage.

When she is out with our 15 year old son ( my stepson) he is often asked if his "sister" has a boyfriend.

[jdinasia]

This year is 2549 (๒๕๔๙) subtract 2006 gives you 543 ... the difference between those are the differences in BE and CE ... but if you know your 10 digits ... and can subtract from 2549 ...

[t.s]

It is VERY easy to get confused about the age of Thai people, and it is sick to ruin a man's life for making such a mistake with a willing sex-worker who is old enough to get married and have children and often has.

a WILLING 15 year old sex worker? is being married with children of your own volition possible at age 15? would you wish it upon the daughter of anyone you know? i think it is far more sick to think the fact that you didn't get there first makes it right.

think about what you are writing

[Griffin]

Thanks JD. I'll bear it in mind when I'm in a den of ill repute after a few beers "hold still Noi while I carry the 1"

Anyway I agree with the less 'anal, point to prove posters' that guessing the age of a Thai can be tricky. I think it is the hair as well. It doesn't seem to go grey until much later than westeners. Maybe the lack of stress from the 'nevermind attitude'.

[chanchao]

Griffin... Normal Arabic numbers are used for the year of birth on Thai ID cards.

So anyone born in 2530 or before is over 18. (2006 - 19 + 543) (Using 19 and not 18 because you don't know when exactly in the year people have their birthday.)

It's not that hard. It's just that the years are Buddhist Era, but they're in 'normal' Western digits.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[Soju]

is being married with children of your own volition possible at age 15? would you wish it upon the daughter of anyone you know? i think it is far more sick to think the fact that you didn't get there first makes it right.

think about what you are writing

It depends a whole lot on the culture the girl is growing up in. In the Western world it would be extremely rare to find a 15 year old mature enough to be ready for marriage and children. They should be continuing their education at that point and if not they are at a severe disadvantage. 15 year olds are told that they're too young for marriage and society doesn't prepare them at that age for marriage. Take another culture where marriage at that age is the norm and I personally don't see anything wrong with it provided the girl is mature enough and getting married on her own free will.

The Hmong people, who live in Thailand, Laos, and I believe Vietnam come to mind. In their culture, most women get married between the ages of 13 and 16. That is their culture and it is almost expected of the girl to get married at such an early age. I'm sure a lot of them feel forced into marriage, but then again I'm sure there's lots of girls much older than that, even into their mid to late 20's in countries all around Asia who feel forced into marriage due to pressure from their parents. I wouldn't want my daughter to get married at such an early age, nor would I want her to marry against her will. I would want to be sure she has a proper education and is completely prepared for marriage before taking that step. But who am I to tell another people what's right and what's wrong. Especially when the people are so poor and education is a luxury available only to the rich and the poor have little to look forward to other than marriage and having children.

My personal opinion is that if the girl is mature physically, mentally, and emotionally, then there's nothing wrong with her getting married provided that's what she wants and her parents agree if she's not yet an adult. Thailand and SEA is not a western culture and we sometimes need to look at things from their perspective.

[GuestHouse]

Why should being caught having sex with an underage person (Child) worry people who on another day go to great lengths to tell us they are in Thailand for the Culture/Climate/Food/Quality of Life etc?

Sex with minors is a dispicable crime and I have zero sympathy with those caught or with any argument they might employ to mitigate their action.

[Guest endure]

It is VERY easy to get confused about the age of Thai people, and it is sick to ruin a man's life for making such a mistake with a willing sex-worker who is old enough to get married and have children and often has.

a WILLING 15 year old sex worker? is being married with children of your own volition possible at age 15? would you wish it upon the daughter of anyone you know? i think it is far more sick to think the fact that you didn't get there first makes it right.

think about what you are writing

The legal age of consent around the world ranges between 12 and 21.

[Soju]

Sex with minors is a dispicable crime and I have zero sympathy with those caught or with any argument they might employ to mitigate their action.

Your statement "sex with minors" covers a very broad category and if you think that's a dispicable crime, then countries all over the world support this dispicable crime and do not outlaw it. Of course it also depends on what your definition of a "minor" is. Typically people tend to think of a minor as being someone under the age of 18, though in some countries/cultures 16 would be a widely used standard, and somewhere else it might be as high as 21. We arbitrarily set the age of a minor in each culture based on our own cultural perspectives. Does someone magically change from being a minor to being an adult when they meet some arbitrarily set age? Absolutely not! And anyone who thinks such is being completely idiotic. Maturity comes at different ages for different individuals. One person may be very mature (emotionally / mentally) at the age of 16, whereas another person may still be very immature even at 25. The typical western society feels that most people have matured by the age of 18, so we say that they are no longer a minor. Still though, some people are clearly not adults at that point, but a legal system must set a definite age because trying to gauge someone's maturity is highly subjective and would make legal proceedings a nightmare if we based it on actual maturity rather than physical age.

Anyways, back to my original point. Many countries around the world, including most western countries allow for marriage (meaning sex) for individuals under the age of 18. 16 is commonly accepted in many countries, but younger ages of 15, 14, or even younger is the age in other countries. Yet still these individuals are considered to be minors. So your statement is classifying all these individuals who legally marry at these ages as commiting a "dispicable crime". You may see it that way, but you are obviously in a small minority because the legal systems of most countries provides for a way for these minors to legally marry.

Now, if by "sex with minors" you mean paying for sex, then that's a completely different story and I would tend to agree with you, but that is not what you said. Perhaps you could clarify your statement if any clarification is necessary.

[Soju]

It is VERY easy to get confused about the age of Thai people, and it is sick to ruin a man's life for making such a mistake with a willing sex-worker who is old enough to get married and have children and often has.

a WILLING 15 year old sex worker? is being married with children of your own volition possible at age 15? would you wish it upon the daughter of anyone you know? i think it is far more sick to think the fact that you didn't get there first makes it right.

think about what you are writing

The legal age of consent around the world ranges between 12 and 21.

Maybe I'm nitpicking too much, but it seems that very few people in this thread are distinguishing between paid sex (prostitution) and marriage and couples in love with each other. Each of these is typically treated separately by different cultures. The "age of consent" is typically the age at which marriage is permitted, but often not the age at which prostitution is permitted. Thailand is one such country. To my knowledge, the age of consent in Thailand is 15, at which point one may get married, and two people in love may consent to sleeping together. Paying for sex with someone under 18 is still very illegal. IMHO, any discussions about age of consent must treat separately the different categories because according to cultural norms they are quite different acts and are treated quite differently by the legal system and by society.

Do not try to tie the age of consent to paying for sex with a minor. It's not the same thing. You cannot use it to justify such actions.

Edited May 22, 2006 by Soju