Thai PM Yingluck Shinawatra offers to cancel election

[Jean Pierre Jacquot]

It would be better if you do not go out because you will find we have taken over the polling stations, Mr Suthep told voters.

"Ja Ja mien Fuhrer Seig heil"

... Suthep isn't Hitler. Hitler won elections.

As does Thaksin. And that's not the only similarity....

[dukeandduke]

No way little Yingluck and evil Thaksin, Chalerm and Co.

You have to unconditionally step down because we want to save Thailand from the Thaksin regime.

"We?" OK, so you're a Thai voter -- somehow.

In that case, here's a wild and crazy idea for you and like-minded others. If you don't like the current leaders, vote for someone else.

[gerry1011]

The BP reports that 80% of the people want to vote... I wonder why there are still talks about delaying the election or not.

The people clearly want to vote.

Suthep is losing... He should go back home and think about his own (somber) future.

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[Yunla]

I agree with several posters who have said Yingluck has played her cards well this year. Back in November with 300,000~ protestors on the streets here in the capital, and the mass-revulsion at the Amnesty bill and rice pledging, Yingluck looked very bad compared to Abhisit and co. Then came Suthep with his endless delusional ranting and genuinely unhinged assembly scheme, coupled with his arrogant refusal to engage in talks or elections, his plans to block elections at every stage followed by doing a full U-turn and accepting the election after all. Yingluck stayed out of all this, offered elections very quickly, and has played a very smart media hand with public statements about not wanting the police or army to use force. She has certainly looked like the white knight compared to Suthep. And it comes right after she looked about as bad as it gets in November. That doesn't mean the amnesty/rice problem is over, or that she isn't working for Darth Vader. Its just that her actions this year look outstanding compared to Suthep. She should send him a 'Thank You' card.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Yunla

[Old Man River]

I agree with several posters who have said Yingluck has played her cards well this year. Back in November with 300,000~ protestors on the streets here in the capital, and the mass-revulsion at the Amnesty bill and rice pledging, Yingluck looked very bad compared to Abhisit and co. Then came Suthep with his endless delusional ranting and genuinely unhinged assembly scheme, coupled with his arrogant refusal to engage in talks or elections, his plans to block elections at every stage followed by doing a full U-turn and accepting the election after all. Yingluck stayed out of all this, offered elections very quickly, and has played a very smart media hand with public statements about not wanting the police or army to use force. She has certainly looked like the white knight compared to Suthep. And it comes right after she looked about as bad as it gets in November. That doesn't mean the amnesty/rice problem is over, or that she isn't working for Darth Vader. Its just that her actions this year look outstanding compared to Suthep. She should send him a 'Thank You' card.

On Suthep, most of us farangs would agree. Still, from his side, he knows that even if YL resigns, the next PM would be another family member etc. Hence, from his side there is no quit and no negotiations. We can talk about democracy all we want, but from Suthep's side, there needs to be reform first.

So it goes...

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[surangw]

how long will she have to wait until things look like they will turn out in her favor?

[Bluespunk]

"Thailands embattled government has offered to call off an election set for February 2 if protesters end their rallies and promise not to obstruct or boycott a new one within months."

Do they really think this is what the protestors want? How will this meet their demands for reform? Clueless.

After read your post it sounds as you think that would be normal that an elected government has to accept the pretensions and exigencies of a minority of the society, which is using extortion and popular pressure method instead of a democratic way, if it is like that I am so sorry but I have to tell you, and all those who support or sympathize with suthep and his no democratic way to do the things, you all are wrong.

And before you tell me that's why they want reform to changes the laws to not allow anyone to be corrupt in the future, ask yourself,

It is this way a proper way to start a reform process like this?

There is no in the whole country better person than suthep to start a process like this?

Why suthep, why not someone impartial?

If were someone whom did not support the opposition party and ex government will be more trustfully, and less suspicious don't you think?

Do we have to blindly trust and give all the power to one man like suthep with his record?

Why do we have to give all the power to one man who does not respect the authorities and an elected government?

A man who says that he don't want negotiate?

A man who want boycott the elections?

What in my post made you think I support suthep or his fascist council? Please tell me because I don't and have made my position on him clear since he hijacked the protest movement. I have no sympathy for him or his approach to reform.

PT are corrupt, inept, incompetent, nepotistic and arrogant enough to think they can do whatever they like. They have no concern for anyone or anything but themselves. They are unfit to govern in their present state. For me suthep is no better and could be worse.

However the protesters have legitimate complaints against this govt and do not trust their promises, I don't blame them. Look at what happened to the rice farmers.

That is why I don't think that this empty offer to hold elections without addressing some of the protesters concerns will succeed.

I think that the protests should have ended when PT called elections. They will win these elections but may rule in a more legitimate manner after the "give thaksin whatever he wants amnesty bill" protests showed what happens when you go too far. But then again I'm an optimist.

Clear enough for you?

[whybother]

There is simply no end to the demands from these anti-democratic goons. The PM has offered talks , time after time after time...but still they want more. No...for Thailand's sake, just give it up

What will talks achieve at the moment? What has Yingluck got to offer that the protesters want? What do you think would be a compromise that would be acceptable to both sides?

I'm not sure that talking with mr Suthep has any merit...he keeps putting more and more conditions on talks. I would like the very reasonable side of the opposition to enter into dialogue. It's probably happening or planned but not yet public....I have no idea but hope that there can be some negotiation away from the brink. There are some good people in opposition....they have valid demands, but this all or nothing approach by Suthep is just not going to work, IMHO

More and more conditions? He has had one main condition that Yingluck won't meet. Her resignation. Calling elections and delaying elections isn't what he wants. He wants her out. The protests won't stop until she is out.

[Bluespunk]

It would be better if you do not go out because you will find we have taken over the polling stations, Mr Suthep told voters.

"Ja Ja mien Fuhrer Seig heil"

... Suthep isn't Hitler. Hitler won elections.

No he didn't. Last free and fair (for the time) election took part in they were the largest party but still a clear minority. Only became a majority when banned communist and other leftist parties. Edited January 25, 2014 by Bluespunk

[whybother]

The BP reports that 80% of the people want to vote... I wonder why there are still talks about delaying the election or not.

The people clearly want to vote.

Suthep is losing... He should go back home and think about his own (somber) future.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That's a lot more than voted in the last elections.

[takkatan in the land]

"Thailands embattled government has offered to call off an election set for February 2 if protesters end their rallies and promise not to obstruct or boycott a new one within months."

Do they really think this is what the protestors want? How will this meet their demands for reform? Clueless.

After read your post it sounds as you think that would be normal that an elected government has to accept the pretensions and exigencies of a minority of the society, which is using extortion and popular pressure method instead of a democratic way, if it is like that I am so sorry but I have to tell you, and all those who support or sympathize with suthep and his no democratic way to do the things, you all are wrong.

And before you tell me that's why they want reform to changes the laws to not allow anyone to be corrupt in the future, ask yourself,

It is this way a proper way to start a reform process like this?

There is no in the whole country better person than suthep to start a process like this?

Why suthep, why not someone impartial?

If were someone whom did not support the opposition party and ex government will be more trustfully, and less suspicious don't you think?

Do we have to blindly trust and give all the power to one man like suthep with his record?

Why do we have to give all the power to one man who does not respect the authorities and an elected government?

A man who says that he don't want negotiate?

A man who want boycott the elections?

I can only gather that you never passed grade 4 maths, for your ability to grasp proportions is absolutely nil.

Suthep's record is hardly the workings of Thaksin's, in fact it is at least a couple magnitudes less.

Respect of authorities is your default, yet the authorities have shown ZERO respect to the people, to the backbone of the nation - its farmers, to the rule of law, and to even the most basic democratic principles of governance.

I suppose that when an election -- however corrupt or tainted or skewered -- is your highwater mark for assessing whether a demncracy is in place and working, rants such as yours make some sense.

you are right in one thing, I am not good in math, to tell the truth I hate math.

But otherwise I can perfectly recognize a false Messiah like suthep, they always use to use the same weapons, manipulation, extortion, populism and fake propaganda mixed with uninformed or influenced people.

[manxninja]

Thaskin was the best thing that ever happened to Thailand.

I would bet my life savings that Yingluck will remain in power. Money talks and they have a lot of it.

[build6]

... Suthep isn't Hitler. Hitler won elections.

No he didn't. Last free and fair (for the time) election took part in they were the largest party but still a clear minority. Only became a majority when banned communist and other leftist parties.

fair enough

"most number of seats" doesn't quite have the same ring to it

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071116012354AAgQhj0

(I agree with you, the most up voted answer on that Yahoo page is wrong, the 2nd answer is more detailed)

Anyways, I guess if I rephrase it - "can Suthep get 37% of the popular vote"?

[VegasVic]

"Thailands embattled government has offered to call off an election set for February 2 if protesters end their rallies and promise not to obstruct or boycott a new one within months."

Do they really think this is what the protestors want? How will this meet their demands for reform? Clueless.

The Shins could disappear from the scene tomorrow and reforms put in place and this would not change a thing for suthep and his fascists/anarchist gang, they would still lose an election by a rather wide margin! Sutheps only chance at not getting tried for murder is to continue his thuggish activity and hope that eventually he can convince his cronies in the military command to stage a coup. My hunch is that suthep will go down in a hail of bullets as a martyr for his cause, which is likely preferable to rotting in a jail cell for the remainder of his life

[VegasVic]

The BP reports that 80% of the people want to vote... I wonder why there are still talks about delaying the election or not.

The people clearly want to vote.

Suthep is losing... He should go back home and think about his own (somber) future.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Suthep can no longer just put his tail between his legs and go back home, he has crossed the Rubicon Suthep will be arrested and arraigned for murder, insurrection and a number of lesser charges, he fully realizes this and so I don't expect him to stop until he is out of money to fund this nonsense or he is taken out of the picture

[looping]

"Thailands embattled government has offered to call off an election set for February 2 if protesters end their rallies and promise not to obstruct or boycott a new one within months."

Do they really think this is what the protestors want? How will this meet their demands for reform? Clueless.

Regardless of how we got to this point and who's to blame the elite on both sides have to stop this madness one way or another.

Yingluck has agreed to resign and leave politics forever if her families safety is guaranteed and if there will be a normal run of the mill election. Currently Suthep and the PDRC have refused to completely okay this offer, however they haven't flat out refused it either.

This action symbolically removes Thaksin's influence from Thai politics despite the reality where he retains control of the PTP, this also allows Suthep to declare victory over Shincorp giving both sides the opportunity to save face. The democrats can champion the fact they removed a corrupt PM through non-violent means using people power something previously completely alien to them.

The farmers are angry, the government has cost people from the top to the bottom of society billions of baht by enacting the state of emergency then doing nothing with it and the Red shirts feel shunned after being left out of the recent political conflict only renewing the growing divide between the PTP and the Red shirts that existed before the Amnesty bill farce.

If Suthep keeps himself out of the spotlight (which is highly unlikely considering his planet sized ego) during a potential election campaign the Democrats may actually have a chance of winning if they take the moral high road now and promise a reform council to truly tackle corruption.

Problem is, 70% (?) of Thais believe that corruption is ok as long as they 'benefit' from it. There's no easy fix to this depth of ignorance.

[mrtoad]

So funny all these people saying the government is "over". Have you been to the protest site in Asok recently? There's more street sellers selling protest merchandise than protestors. Anyone who knows anything about politics, whether they like Yingluck or not, knows she has played this like a seasoned veteran.

Asoke is not the main demo site. Thankyou though for sharing your intelligence.

[mrtoad]

Thaskin was the best thing that ever happened to Thailand.

I would bet my life savings that Yingluck will remain in power. Money talks and they have a lot of it.

Let me know the conditions of this bet, and what you are offering. Might take you up on it.

[Publicus]

The BP reports that 80% of the people want to vote... I wonder why there are still talks about delaying the election or not.

The people clearly want to vote.

Suthep is losing... He should go back home and think about his own (somber) future.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That's a lot more than voted in the last elections.

Yes, while 80% turnout is awfully high, it's not far from the norm and it's a vital present measure of how strongly Thai people feel nationally about stating their support for democracy and their democratic systems as they see Suthep and his insurrectionist fascists working feverishly trying to rip it all away from them.

Thai voter turnout participation %:

2011 -- 75.03

2007 -- 78.51

2006 -- 64.77

2005 -- 75.13

The Feb 2nd election is occurring in a significantly worse atmosphere than the highly charged 2006 election so turnout this time might be closer to then. Then again, it might exceed the voter participation rate of 2006 given that both surveys measured Thais as highly motivated to express their support of democratic government and processes.

Suthep as with any fascist knows his trump card is violence.

Yet, conversely, Yingluck knows that will mean Suthep loses once and for all as the government will be recognized as having been restrained and acting with finality only as the absolutely last resort to save and preserve the election and democracy.

Suthep's cause was lost from the start. The guy who wants to stop an election and appoint a "people's council" is just unmistakably the fascist in the mix.

Meanwhile the government has managed the insurrection with aplomb and the 45 and other governments globally recognize the fact

http://www.idea.int/vt/countryview.cfm?CountryCode=TH

[Trouble]

Do anyone really believe that all the corruption in the government is caused by the Shinawatras' controlling a mafia like group? Corruption is rampant throughout all levels of the government, commerce and society. Thaksin is not controlling that nor is Yingluck as a proxy. Whether Yingluck resigns from politics or not the PTP will be elected again and even with a new leader the corruption will go on. The corruption did not stop when Abhisit and his party were in power and will not stop whomever, of whatever political persuasion, is in power. Get real for a moment. Suthep has a history of corruption scandals so he is no different. Neither Yingluck nor Thaksin really need the money and I don't believe for a moment she is spending her days trying to figure out ways of stealing money through corruption. Sure Thaksin tried to manipulate some things to avoid taxes, etc. He did not get away with it, did he? I am sure to this day he regrets not paying the tax for the telecom sale and wishes that the land deal had not happened. Maybe too much greed.

I do believe that a lot of people a all levels of the government do spend time trying to figure out ways of earning a little extra. Greed is what drives a lot of people. The term Shin mafia has been used all too many times to describe the Shinawatra hold. It does not exist folks. If it did there would not be this mess. The corruption is too big at too many levels to control. That's the problem. Everyone is out to grab a piece of the pie and the Shinawatras' can't even begin to control it. Time to take a rest on the Shinawatras' controlling the massive corruption in the country. If indeed this was a mafia-like organization the country would be run quite well with the corrupt politicians taking a reasonable share and letting things function like a well oiled machine. It is not by any means controlled by the top down. That's the problem. Suthep tries to make the Shinawatras' look like a mafia run organization and has his supporters believing that if they are gone everything will be better. Everyone should know he is just as big a crook as any of the politicians.

Sorry to say it but Thais are part of the Asian culture where money is above all else. Mothers want children to marry well to bring the family money. It all starts at the basic family level. It just gets worse. The value system is different from the west and leads to money being all important. Thais are not in general charitable but are greedy. But that is a whole other topic. The point is that corruption will continue and it is just a matter of who will reap the benefits. Nothing changed under Abhisit, nothing will change under Suthep and his ilk.

This political situation is about who controls things. The talk about the amnesty bill which the PTP and Yingluck has backed away from have also been thrown out again as the timing for the election. What good would it do to have another election, bring up the amnesty bill and start the protests all over again? That in my mind is a dead issue. The PTP will move on. They tried and failed. They want to survive and will not bring that issue up again. Which is more important, getting Thaksin back or having the members of the PTP survive. Thaksin may be a focal point in the PTP but the members aren't going to shoot themselves in the foot either over the issue.

Yingluck has offered many times to consult with the opposition but Suthep says she must go first. That is not something she can negotiate on and backing her into a corner is not helping his cause. If he truly wants change then it has to be through negotiation. But what he really wants is Yingluck out, his council in, a change of the rules somehow to give the Democrats more power, none of which is under constitutional means. So how can his demands be realistic. If he wants to gain something he needs to come to the conference table and see what he can negotiate. He can't have it all.

[shaurene]

This traitor Sethup says his people will stop people voting. So let's hope the army/police are swarming around the stations and arrest them. Government/police & military should make it public that stopping voters will incur a mandatory prison sentence of 1 year, no fines just prison hard labour. This government is so weak

Send the water cannons in with very cold water, in this cold weather will slow them down.

[shaurene]

Reading Trouble's post, you hit it right on the head, a good read Mate it is all FACT and NO suspicion.

A lot of the problem with the Police scams are to do with the low pay they get.

[tilac2]

Thaskin was the best thing that ever happened to Thailand.

I would bet my life savings that Yingluck will remain in power. Money talks and they have a lot of it.

"Thaskin was the best thing that ever happened to Thailand."

I tend to agree with you, with some surprise to myself!

I wouldn't have said this even a year ago, because there was (and is) so much anti Thaksin propaganda around that I kind of accepted that he was "the evil one". But then I started to look at the statistics and policies. Sure Thaksin was intent on making money (he is a businessman after all) but why does that mean he can't also run a country effectively?

By the way, I'm not going to be so confident with my life savings as you are(!) but I am equally convinced that there can be no alternative to the modernisation that Thaksin started, and so I'd think that Yingluk might indeed survive in office. Although the armata, remnants-of-feudalism, will try to resist, slowly Thailand must come into the modern world.

Edited January 25, 2014 by tilac2

[LadPhrao123]

"Thailands embattled government has offered to call off an election set for February 2 if protesters end their rallies and promise not to obstruct or boycott a new one within months."

Do they really think this is what the protestors want? How will this meet their demands for reform? Clueless.

But the majority of the electorate are happy with it so why should the minority protesters get their way to change the way things are. Its the protesters party who need to reform and win over voters to win the election through the ballot box, not mob rule and closing down polling stations.

Elections are not the problem. I believe that you win an election then you form the govt. really don't care if PT win (which they will) or not.

Where the system goes wrong is that there is no way to remove corrupt govts, they can and do ignore or manipulate the law. The "give thaksin what he wants amnesty bill" was the spark that caused the current protests. Those protesting feel that an election that does not come with a legal framework to reign in corrupt govts is pointless.

They have a point. I don't agree with the way they are trying to effect change but I do see why they are angry. Changing the date of the election will not sooth this anger unless there is a genuine attempt at dialogue before the election.

That was the basis of my post.

Since the Constitutional Court appears to have the power to weigh in on anything they choose to take up and Yingluck's government has acknowledged they will follow same I don't see how you can say there is no mechanism to reign in a government.

Your characterisation of the amnesty bill for the sole purpose of serving Thaksin Shinawatra is just conjecture, not fact, but agreed that because Suthep et al was able to paint it successfully as such it helped to fuel the protests.

The idea of reforms before an election is a) impractical, because it cannot happen in a short time, waiting for it to happen while who knows who or what deliberates would ham string the functioning government for an indeterminate period and open to all sorts of mischief. Suthep et al refuse to discuss and demand an end to Yingluck's PMship. c) unnecessary, in practical terms Yingluck's government clearly has offered to work for reforms and that promise and a newly formed government through the election is the best the protestors are likely to receive given their attempt at baiting a coup has failed. they would have the ability to go to the streets again in future if reforms efforts were not forthcoming.

The protestors have chastened and sensitized the government, they've gone far beyond a reaction to the amnesty bill. The failed to get a coup. Time to put an end to the frustration of forming a new government through an election and then do the hard work of organizing their ideas and working to see them realized through elections and legal means and generally keep the heat on to bring reforms over the long haul.

Edited January 25, 2014 by LadPhrao123

[englishoak]

Some very interesting claims and info on a few social media sites, Its looking and sounding like a face off more and more in the last couple of days, the interesting thing is although the girls are in the Suthep camp and been very public about it, seems finally the lad has also come out of his shell and putting his own influence and position to work now. The strange thing is it seems the sisters of mercy are not so sincere as the record would have us believe and it could be the black night after having a 3 hr meeting with a certain general may come to madam Yinglucks rescue and change the cards somewhat.

Been waiting for this to go mainstream for a while, since xmas in fact, too much meddling by those who are supposed to have been neutral to be ignored forever by the other and legitimate camp, it is now forcing things into the open on both sides. Im sure those in the know will understand the rest will have to just take an educated guess.

Edited January 25, 2014 by englishoak

[daboyz1]

LOL. How many times I have heard Thaksin say he's finished with politics? He'll just plug in older sister or some other "clone" to do his bidding.

[daboyz1]

Some very interesting claims and info on a few social media sites, Its looking and sounding like a family face off more and more in the last couple of days, the interesting thing is although the girls are in the Suthep camp and been very public about it, seems finally the lad has also come out of his shell and putting his own influence and position to work now. The strange thing is it seems the sisters of mercy are not so sincere as the record would have us believe and it could be the black night after having a 3 hr meeting with a certain general may come to madam Yinglucks rescue and change the cards somewhat.

Been waiting for this to go mainstream for a while, since xmas in fact, too much meddling by those who are supposed to have been neutral to be ignored forever by the other and legitimate camp, it is now forcing things into the open on both sides. Im sure those in the know will understand the rest will have to just take an educated guess.

I'll be curious to see how long the above post is allowed to stay. My guess is, not long.

[FangFerang]

‘‘It would be better if you do not go out because you will find we have taken over the polling stations,’’ Mr Suthep told voters.

Once again Suthep is trying to intimidate voters.

He is intimidating voters. And she wants to know -- "What are the reforms?"

No one should intimidate voters. Everyone wants to know what reforms are being proposed.

In this instance, Thainess is vagueness.

[JRSoul]

Thaskin was the best thing that ever happened to Thailand.

I would bet my life savings that Yingluck will remain in power. Money talks and they have a lot of it.

"Thaskin was the best thing that ever happened to Thailand."

I tend to agree with you, with some surprise to myself!

I wouldn't have said this even a year ago, because there was (and is) so much anti Thaksin propaganda around that I kind of accepted that he was "the evil one". But then I started to look at the statistics and policies. Sure Thaksin was intent on making money (he is a businessman after all) but why does that mean he can't also run a country effectively?

By the way, I'm not going to be so confident with my life savings as you are(!) but I am equally convinced that there can be no alternative to the modernisation that Thaksin started, and so I'd think that Yingluk might indeed survive in office. Although the armata, remnants-of-feudalism, will try to resist, slowly Thailand must come into the modern world.

"Sure Thaksin was intent on making money (he is a businessman after all) but why does that mean he can't also run a country effectively?"

It seems you have fallen into the "corruption is OK" school of thought. The approved concept is that a MP, and even more so for a PM, puts aside self interest and business in service of his country, rather than using his position to his advantage. In fact, there are quite a few laws to this effect.

When more moral and law-abiding people see asset hiding, changing of tax laws, bid rigging, loan issuing, obvious conflicts of interest and other forms of abuse of position designed to benefit a politician they become outraged, without bothering to check their bank balance to see if they are benefiting.

Now the chorus will remind us that other politicians are also corrupt, ignoring the extent and blatancy of Thaksin. The charge of which he is convicted is rather petty, at least in comparison to those waiting his return. You should familiarise yourself with them. The billion baht bank sting alone should make you blush.

[FangFerang]

The Shin can see it's all over and yet they are still scrabbling around trying different delaying tactics. I sense they need more time to organise their (!) belongings and pack their bags.

I think you are thoroughly mistaken old chap. A power structure, once coalesced, never goes away. You can remove the front men, but money creates momentum. Suthep and his people are throwing snowballs at an avalanche. If they ban PT, a likelihood, the momentum will only bring new people to the front under a different party name.

It has been months, and still not one detail about reforms. Not one single detail, just vague shouts about corruption and police being restructured.

Here comes the new boss, same as the old boss. You have heard that before, right? I mean, you do read more than TV?

TV is useful in letting us share information and chat, but it is merely chatter. TV is an incorporated blog, which is fair. Someone had a good idea and is getting rewarded for it. 5 million likes do not make any statement true, however.