Pheu Thai hoping former Democrat may help with peace talks

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ANALYSIS
Pheu Thai hoping former Democrat may help with peace talks
HATAIKARN TREESUWAN
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Many wars end not because the participants are incapable of further fighting, but because they can see a position from which to negotiate.

This is the correct time for the caretaker government to push for a new dialogue with the anti-government People's Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC), led by Suthep Thaugsuban.

However, it remains a troublesome situation for the two sides when their demands and ambitions are not being met.

The PDRC's Bangkok shutdown campaign, which has tried to prove that the Yingluck Shinawatra administration was a "failed government", appeared to become a "failed operation" when the caretaker premier and her Cabinet didn't resign from their posts.

Meanwhile, the Constitutional Court on Friday ruled that a rescheduling of the February 2 election was possible, even as the Pheu Thai Party insisted that holding the poll as scheduled was the best way to ease the crisis.

A key member of the Pheu Thai Party, who asked not to be named, said Yingluck and her fellow party members knew the poll would be the end of only the first round of the battle, and would lead to another problem.

So some party leaders tried to make a new secret deal with Suthep to resolve the crisis at the negotiating table, but the proposal has not been responded to.

"We offered to negotiate with Suthep via 'Mr N' - a veteran Democrat Party politician he respected," the source said.

The source said the door for talks had been opened after the Constitution Court ruled the poll could be rescheduled. Two central conditions not currently being achieved would be raised again at the new negotiating table with a "new mediator" and a "new coordinator".

According to caretaker PM's Office Minister Varathep Ratanakorn, the conditions were that the PDRC cease its rallies and the Democrat Party would contest the poll.

"We tried to find solutions to end the protests. Suthep could achieve some demands [even though] he failed to oust Yingluck from her position. For example, if the 'People's Council' proposed by the PDRC was implemented in some context, he could claim and declare a 'people's victory'. Meanwhile, the caretaker government would stay out of the spotlight," the source said.

The source added that the permanent secretary of the Justice Ministry, Dr Kittipong Kittayarak, could be a coordinator to lead discussions into the idea of a reform council, because he was acceptable to all parties.

Kittipong was the first of the bureaucratic elite to advocate a delayed election, writing on his Facebook page. He also proposed a "neutral forum" made up of people recognised for their impartiality to serve as the start of a dialogue process.

The end result of negotiations is always for the two sides to get something they want. "Now everybody wants reform, including the PDRC and the Democrat Party. So it is [an issue] good for using in negotiation. The election might be postponed on this condition," the source added.

Previously, the Pheu Thai Party planned to use the election results to drive political reform and claimed its voters needed to push support for the Shinawatra family - similar to the way the PDRC protesters fought for the eradication of the "Thaksin regime", according to Pheu Thai's election director Sompong Amornvivat.

He said it was not fair for members of the Shinawatra family if the protesters called for them to get out.

"The [Pheu Thai] party picked Yingluck as the candidate for the next prime minister. She was also named as the party's No 1 party-list candidate in the election. If voters had no need for the Shinawatra family in Thailand, they could vote for the other parties. I need to know what 15 million people, who voted for the Pheu Thai Party in the 2011 election, really wanted," Sompong said.


-- The Nation 2014-01-27

[EricBerg]

"He said it was not fair for members of the Shinawatra family if the protesters called for them to get out."

The protests started against the amnesty bill. The bill was aimed at allowing the missunderstood fugitive back in Thailand without prison sentence. Broad parts of the Thai people thought that unacceptable. After the bill was withdrawn - but still can be pushed through after a while - the protests turned to ousting the shinaclan.

The younger sister was the PM. The brother in law just came back to the political top after being barred from politics for five years. Other family members have prominent positions in the top too. The criminal himself is running the government from Dubai.

Now a key member of PTP sees room to negotiate. But think it's unfair that the protesters want to get rid of the shinas????

And why does that key member want to remain anonymous? The keymembers i know are people like Chalerm and Jatuporn. Those will sooner be organising killers than dialogue.

[icommunity]

Negotiation between the DEM and its PDRC and the Government. Is it fair to all the other smaller parties? Are their voices not important? Have they been consulted and find out how they feel?

BTW, how and what has the Shinawatra family did that were so evil and impeding the growth, progress and prosperity of Thailand?

[Piichai]

BTW, how and what has the Shinawatra family did that were so evil and impeding the growth, progress and prosperity of Thailand?

If you really don't know... I'd say the 2,500 or so extrajudicial killings qualifies as evil. And as far as impeding the growth, progress, and prosperity of Thailand goes, you can start with the rice scam and carry on from there.

[icommunity]

BTW, how and what has the Shinawatra family did that were so evil and impeding the growth, progress and prosperity of Thailand?

If you really don't know... I'd say the 2,500 or so extrajudicial killings qualifies as evil. And as far as impeding the growth, progress, and prosperity of Thailand goes, you can start with the rice scam and carry on from there.

Certainly would like to see the evidence on the muderer/s of the 2,500??? How has the rice pledging scheme impeded the growth, progress and prosperity of Thailand.

[rogerdee123]

ignore the trolls

[Siripon]

BTW, how and what has the Shinawatra family did that were so evil and impeding the growth, progress and prosperity of Thailand?

If you really don't know... I'd say the 2,500 or so extrajudicial killings qualifies as evil. And as far as impeding the growth, progress, and prosperity of Thailand goes, you can start with the rice scam and carry on from there.

Certainly would like to see the evidence on the muderer/s of the 2,500??? How has the rice pledging scheme impeded the growth, progress and prosperity of Thailand.

I wish the moderators would introduce a 2 or 3 tier level forum for Thai news: beginners, intermediate and advanced

Questions like the above clearly belong in the basic class.

At school they don't let Prathom 1 students sit with Mattayom 6 for obvious reasons.

[WhizBang]

He said it was not fair for members of the Shinawatra family if the protesters called for them to get out.

I think it is very fair. On the other hand, if Thaksin really wants to come back, and YL et al want to remain here, then fine. Charge them all with Treason.

What's the penalty in Thailand for treason? Death?

The cowardly Shinawatra clan would be gone in a heartbeat.

[Artisi]

BTW, how and what has the Shinawatra family did that were so evil and impeding the growth, progress and prosperity of Thailand?

If you really don't know... I'd say the 2,500 or so extrajudicial killings qualifies as evil. And as far as impeding the growth, progress, and prosperity of Thailand goes, you can start with the rice scam and carry on from there.

Certainly would like to see the evidence on the muderer/s of the 2,500??? How has the rice pledging scheme impeded the growth, progress and prosperity of Thailand.

I wish the moderators would introduce a 2 or 3 tier level forum for Thai news: beginners, intermediate and advanced

Questions like the above clearly belong in the basic class.

At school they don't let Prathom 1 students sit with Mattayom 6 for obvious reasons.

Should be one more level, it could be called pre-beginner and reserved for trolls and those who should only be allowed to talk to themselves.

[WhizBang]

BTW, how and what has the Shinawatra family did that were so evil and impeding the growth, progress and prosperity of Thailand?

If you really don't know... I'd say the 2,500 or so extrajudicial killings qualifies as evil. And as far as impeding the growth, progress, and prosperity of Thailand goes, you can start with the rice scam and carry on from there.

Certainly would like to see the evidence on the muderer/s of the 2,500??? How has the rice pledging scheme impeded the growth, progress and prosperity of Thailand.

Wow. Seriously?

Try google.

[Melyn]

BTW, how and what has the Shinawatra family did that were so evil and impeding the growth, progress and prosperity of Thailand?

If you really don't know... I'd say the 2,500 or so extrajudicial killings qualifies as evil. And as far as impeding the growth, progress, and prosperity of Thailand goes, you can start with the rice scam and carry on from there.

Certainly would like to see the evidence on the muderer/s of the 2,500??? How has the rice pledging scheme impeded the growth, progress and prosperity of Thailand.

I'm sure there are plenty of grieving families and no end of news articles. Human rights organizations are also a good source. I believe the figure was closer to 2800.

Had the rice scam money been spent in modernizing rice and other agricultural production instead of leaving it in the stone age and wastng billions on it then growth and progress would have followed.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[WhizBang]

BTW, how and what has the Shinawatra family did that were so evil and impeding the growth, progress and prosperity of Thailand?

If you really don't know... I'd say the 2,500 or so extrajudicial killings qualifies as evil. And as far as impeding the growth, progress, and prosperity of Thailand goes, you can start with the rice scam and carry on from there.

Certainly would like to see the evidence on the muderer/s of the 2,500??? How has the rice pledging scheme impeded the growth, progress and prosperity of Thailand.

I wish the moderators would introduce a 2 or 3 tier level forum for Thai news: beginners, intermediate and advanced

Questions like the above clearly belong in the basic class.

At school they don't let Prathom 1 students sit with Mattayom 6 for obvious reasons.

He has only been a member for 2 weeks.

So either he a complete newbie to Thailand, who apparantly did zero research before coming, or he is a paid Thaksin troll. I vote the latter.

[Prbkk]

Yes, it's time for some rational people from the democrats to enter dialogue and discussion. Time to move on from the street and the Suthep plot and get Thailand functioning again. Rational people will welcome this.

[icommunity]

Response to

Artisi, on 27 Jan 2014 - 12:25, said: #9

Siripon, on 27 Jan 2014 - 12:18, said: #7

My Response

Oh yah. What would be the level of people who do not even know how to answer to a simple question like:

"How and what has the Shinawatra family did that were so evil and impeding the growth, progress and prosperity of Thailand?"

This forum should only reserved for those who do not make baseless and unsubstantiated accusations. Well, may be those educated derelicts and people who are living in a "victim mentality" world are welcome to vent their reasons/excuses of their own failures.

[RubbaJohnny]

Thailand: Grave developments- Killings and other abuses

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Index Number: ASA 39/008/2003

Date Published: 5 November 2003

Categories: Asia And The Pacific, Thailand

This report focuses on human rights violations, particularly extrajudicial executions, in the context of the Thai government's anti-drugs campaign from February through April 2003. The report also highlights key examples of the lack of due diligence on the part of the government in protecting vulnerable groups, and examines instances of abuse against land rights and environmental activists; members of tribal groups; poor people; and migrant workers. The government's failure to properly investigate crimes committed against these people, contribute to Thailand's climate of impunity.

[icommunity]

A Response to

WhizBang, on 27 Jan 2014 - 12:29, said: #12

My Response

Hahahaha, I am a newbie to Thailand. Just let you know that members of my families have proud heritage from the Lanna period. You cannot even answer a simple question and all what you can do is a shameless baseless accusation that I am a paid Thaksin troll.

[Scamper]

" the conditions were that the PDRC cease its rallies and the Democrat Party would contest the poll. "

Goodness, Phue Thai aren't really asking for much, are they ? The irony of ironies is that Pheu Thai has never had the slightest regard for the Democratic party, but boy do they now. The quotes raised in this article show that the mindset of Pheu Thai hasn't changed one iota. In fact, they're entrenched.

" Previously, the Pheu Thai Party planned to use the election results to drive political reform and claimed its voters needed to push support for the Shinawatra family "

Support for the Shinawatra family is precisely what people do not want. People know what " reform " means to Pheu Thai. Reform means " Shinawatra ". Does the word " amnesty " ring in a bell in anyone's ears ? That is the very heart of the protest movement. So really, Pheu Thai is completely closed to anything that does not deter them from exactly the same present path.

[icommunity]

A Response to

Melyn, on 27 Jan 2014 - 12:27, said: #11

'm sure there are plenty of grieving families and no end of news articles. Human rights organizations are also a good source. I believe the figure was closer to 2800.

Had the rice scam money been spent in modernizing rice and other agricultural production instead of leaving it in the stone age and wastng billions on it then growth and progress would have followed.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

My Response

Since "there are plenty of grieving families and no end of news articles. Human rights organizations are also a good source." evidence should therefore be very clear and why he is not charged in court? They were two probes that proved him not involved in the killings and were only probes. Further or the real probe will surface many other matters that his accusers don't want surfaced. The perception was created by haters of Thaksin.

On rice pledging scheme : My question is :

"How and what has the Shinawatra family did that were so evil and impeding the growth, progress and prosperity of Thailand?" You did not answer the question, only your short-sighted opinion on rice pledging scheme.

[bino]

Just let you know that members of my families have proud heritage from the Lanna period.

If you are Thai, why aren't you out there trying to make a difference instead of sitting online arguing with foreigners who really have no say at all in the matter?

[Gweiloman]

" the conditions were that the PDRC cease its rallies and the Democrat Party would contest the poll. "

Goodness, Phue Thai aren't really asking for much, are they ? The irony of ironies is that Pheu Thai has never had the slightest regard for the Democratic party, but boy do they now. The quotes raised in this article show that the mindset of Pheu Thai hasn't changed one iota. In fact, they're entrenched.

" Previously, the Pheu Thai Party planned to use the election results to drive political reform and claimed its voters needed to push support for the Shinawatra family "

Support for the Shinawatra family is precisely what people do not want. People know what " reform " means to Pheu Thai. Reform means " Shinawatra ". Does the word " amnesty " ring in a bell in anyone's ears ? That is the very heart of the protest movement. So really, Pheu Thai is completely closed to anything that does not deter them from exactly the same present path.

Ah, I see that you have googled paragraphs as I suggested. Shame that it doesn't make your posts any more intelligent.

[icommunity]

Just let you know that members of my families have proud heritage from the Lanna period.

If you are Thai, why aren't you out there trying to make a difference instead of sitting online arguing with foreigners who really have no say at all in the matter?

How do you know that I am not? I am arguing with foreigners? I treasure their many opinions and comments made here though I do not agree with some of them. However, you can easily find many are making baseless unsubstantiated accusations. I am on the side of justice, fairness and rule of law. Only accusations with substance and according to principle of justice and evidence will have any legitimacy and credence. I hope you saw the pattern of most of my opinions, comments and rebuttals.

[Piichai]

Since "there are plenty of grieving families and no end of news articles. Human rights organizations are also a good source." evidence should therefore be very clear and why he is not charged in court?

IIRC, there is still an outstanding arrest warrant for Thaksin on the matter.

You really don't think he ran away for a measly two-year jail term, do you? His wife certainly didn't.

[tingtongteesood]

Negotiation between the DEM and its PDRC and the Government. Is it fair to all the other smaller parties? Are their voices not important? Have they been consulted and find out how they feel?

BTW, how and what has the Shinawatra family did that were so evil and impeding the growth, progress and prosperity of Thailand?

Many people have repeated it many times but you just don't want to believe it. What do you believe they have done in the last 5 years that is good for the country?

[tingtongteesood]

Just let you know that members of my families have proud heritage from the Lanna period.

If you are Thai, why aren't you out there trying to make a difference instead of sitting online arguing with foreigners who really have no say at all in the matter?

How do you know that I am not? I am arguing with foreigners? I treasure their many opinions and comments made here though I do not agree with some of them. However, you can easily find many are making baseless unsubstantiated accusations. I am on the side of . Only accusations with substance and according to principle of justice and evidence will have any legitimacy and credence. I hope you saw the pattern of most of my opinions, comments and rebuttals.

If you want 'justice, fairness and rule of law' to quote you directly then why do you back a convicted criminal who tried to bribe the judge with 2 million baht and when that didn't work and he was convicted ran away ?

Does that sound like justice, fairness or that Thaksin respects the rule of law ?

Sure as hell doesn't to me.....,

[mrtoad]

BTW, how and what has the Shinawatra family did that were so evil and impeding the growth, progress and prosperity of Thailand?

If you really don't know... I'd say the 2,500 or so extrajudicial killings qualifies as evil. And as far as impeding the growth, progress, and prosperity of Thailand goes, you can start with the rice scam and carry on from there.

Certainly would like to see the evidence on the muderer/s of the 2,500??? How has the rice pledging scheme impeded the growth, progress and prosperity of Thailand.

Are you for real, or have you just arrived?

[rickirs]

BTW, how and what has the Shinawatra family did that were so evil and impeding the growth, progress and prosperity of Thailand?

If you really don't know... I'd say the 2,500 or so extrajudicial killings qualifies as evil. And as far as impeding the growth, progress, and prosperity of Thailand goes, you can start with the rice scam and carry on from there.

The so-called "rice scam" was not a scam but an honest effort to provide farmers with fair payment for their crops, albeit with an initial government subsidy designed not to delay payment. A payment that historically was based on what middlemen decided for the farmers and not a fair payment, keeping farmers in essentially servitude poverty. This plan was met with approval from a constitutionally elected parliament and legal in all aspects. If the program fell short of required revenues to fully meet farmer prices, that was the nature of the marketplace, that was the result of a worldwide economic effect, and not by some conspiracy by the Government to deceive farmers. But one must ask, what did the Democrats provide during their own regime to improve the standard of living for farmers, the poor that allows them to be so judgmental of PTP's efforts? Sorry but the sixty second clock ran out.

[rickirs]

BTW, how and what has the Shinawatra family did that were so evil and impeding the growth, progress and prosperity of Thailand?

If you really don't know... I'd say the 2,500 or so extrajudicial killings qualifies as evil. And as far as impeding the growth, progress, and prosperity of Thailand goes, you can start with the rice scam and carry on from there.

Can you also start with free or subsidized healthcare, subsidized gasoline, first time auto buyer discounts, and higher minimium wages? Also a comprehensive plan for flood control to help protect Bangkok industries and residents that has never been addressed before? Or do you start with a government and economic shutdown that has been responsible for the fall of the Thailand stock market, loss of tourism, drop in the baht, etc. that was triggered by Suthep's insurrection? If you want to attack evil, look around you, sir.

[rickirs]

Just let you know that members of my families have proud heritage from the Lanna period.

If you are Thai, why aren't you out there trying to make a difference instead of sitting online arguing with foreigners who really have no say at all in the matter?

How do you know that I am not? I am arguing with foreigners? I treasure their many opinions and comments made here though I do not agree with some of them. However, you can easily find many are making baseless unsubstantiated accusations. I am on the side of justice, fairness and rule of law. Only accusations with substance and according to principle of justice and evidence will have any legitimacy and credence. I hope you saw the pattern of most of my opinions, comments and rebuttals.

You obviously come from a liberal democratic society and lack the bloodlust of insurrection and anarchy that is so critical to the current opposition's behavior in Thailand. A behavior that rejects negotiations, compromise, and responsibility for reasonable solutions. Well spoken my friend, keep your comments coming!

[Snig27]

BTW, how and what has the Shinawatra family did that were so evil and impeding the growth, progress and prosperity of Thailand?

If you really don't know... I'd say the 2,500 or so extrajudicial killings qualifies as evil. And as far as impeding the growth, progress, and prosperity of Thailand goes, you can start with the rice scam and carry on from there.

Certainly would like to see the evidence on the muderer/s of the 2,500??? How has the rice pledging scheme impeded the growth, progress and prosperity of Thailand.

Unfortunately you have stepped on the toes of the memes. You are expected - as the response in these forums shows - to accept these things mindlessly, blow your whistle and then chant "Dubai".

There's little doubt that Thaksin has a great deal of blood on his hands with regard to the deaths of many, many ex-judicially, and has never had to answer for these. It's also a fact that he wasn't alone here and numbers of those who were complicit in this are now raging against him in the streets and on the PDRC stages. The story is quite complex (you won't get that in these forums sadly) and polls at the time showed that the cleanups were wildly popular especially in Bangkok. Many of those who now rail angrily about these crimes were earlier championing them. The investigations into these were also never released by the Dems (for fairly obvious reasons).

This has some of it (including how far up it may have gone). Why the Dems did not push the enquiry is also fairly easily available online.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Snig27

[bkkfaranguy]

Negotiation between the DEM and its PDRC and the Government. Is it fair to all the other smaller parties? Are their voices not important? Have they been consulted and find out how they feel?

BTW, how and what has the Shinawatra family did that were so evil and impeding the growth, progress and prosperity of Thailand?

Many people have repeated it many times but you just don't want to believe it. What do you believe they have done in the last 5 years that is good for the country?

Minimum wage increase for one, computers for schools, a failed rice pledging scheme and a few more mentioned above in another post etc. etc., so please enlighten us as to what the Dems have done for the good of the poor people and the country.

Edited January 27, 2014 by bkkfaranguy