Buying land with Thai GF with a mortgage over the property, possible?

[elgordo38]

Ask yourself do you really really love her? If doubtful move on. Put the minimum down payment down and amortize it for as long as you can and if she jerks you around leave her with the rest of the mortgage. Make sure its in her name. You can also get a 30 year right of usage certificate or something where you can share it for 30 yrs. and she cannot kick you out. When dealing with Thai ladies make all deals are back end loaded that they get their payday after you passed on. Don't give em the gold mine either unless they have really treated you well between the mortgage and snuffing it.

[harveyw]

ask yourself this question ,If I was back in my home country and had recently met a girl and she asked for a 50k gift would I buy it for her ,if the answer is no don't buy anything rent and if she likes you for who you are she will stay around,if not again rent your company,far cheaper in the long run

[charliebadenhop]

I have spoken to two farong who have bought some real estate in Thailand. Not for themselves and their girlfriend or wife, but simply land that they wanted for various reasons. Both guys told me the same story. They gave the money to a Thai person they hope they can trust. The moment the land is bought they gain possession of the "chanote" plus a document signed by the Thai person saying that he or she is turning the land over to (blank). The name of the person they are turning the land over to is left blank, and the date is left blank. Then the Thai person signs the document. The Thai person is given a commission.

So as I was told by both gentleman, it is supposedly close to impossible for the Thai person to sell the land or borrow money against the land without the "chanote". And if the farong wound up in a hassle with the Thai person, they would find another Thai person to take over the land, and of course they would need to pay another commission or fee.

Is this a deal that makes sense?

[Pistol101]

Rigpig,

I wouldn't hold your breath on receiving your desired outcome from this site.

I often wonder how many of the clowns are actually posting from outside of Thailand, still have a bone to pick and a score to settle and seeking any chance possible to flame others for attempting to live peaceably in this country.

Instead of participating in the conversation and offering up any real solutions, they would rather pry into your private life, questioning your motives, where you met your partner, how much money is too much money to lose, etc...

Honestly, your time would be served better by pulling up a comfortable chair on the balcony and watching grass grow with a pair of binoculars in the yard down the street.

This is not to detract from the real participants honestly attempting to offer solutions which clearly, there are some.

Here is a quick paste for you to spark some interest.

The principles, maxims and precepts of Commerce Law are eternal, unchanging and unchangeable. They are expressed in the Bible, both the Old Testament and the New. We learned in the second course how the law of commerce has plagued us for more than 6000 years. This law of commerce, unchanged for thousands of years, forms the underlying foundation for all law on this planet and for governments around the world. It is the law of Nations and everything that human civilization is built upon. This is why it is so powerful. When you operate at this level, by these precepts, nothing that is of inferior statute can overturn or change it or abrogate it or meddle with it. It remains the fundamental source of authority and power and functional reality.

At the end of the day Thailand has its own Acts/Statutes governing everything the same as we do in the west. (just not to the same extent, nor enforced as heavily) However, Commercial Law supersedes everything (except Natural Law and Common Law - well perhaps not so much common law, since its been abrogated so much now). But no matter how much any Government tries, they will never stop the sun from rising or the earth from spinning so Natural Law stands firm at number 1. Since the war declared on common law it perhaps is not second place holder anymore but law of commerce stands firm. If International Commercial Law was not observed in Thailand there would virtually be NO COUNTRY in existence that would trade with them. Since they play internationally on various levels, they must also adhere to certain rules or risk not only losing face but be excluded from the international communities.. No exports, no tourism in, no tourism out. Thai citizens would not even be accepted by potential host countries were it not for them being bound by an International Commercial Standard.

So the answer to your woes may be found in studying commercial law. You already alluded to one of the single most powerful tools in our possession. 'the commercial lien'. Combine this with an affidavit and you are on your way to finding remedy.

I find it difficult to believe that even considering Thailand statutes regarding foreign ownership of land, that international contracts, usufructs, and notarized affidavits carry zero weight here. Since the Law of Commerce is the very foundation that global governance rests upon, it would be foolish to not explore this avenue if you are serious about financial protection and peace of mind. The methods behind their implementation are varied and numerous and there are people creating an high degree of security with very simple contracts.

I am not suggesting that you could own land outright but I do believe that there are steps you could take to level the playing field. If your partner were to pass-away (heaven forbid), then a legal (lawfully binding) contract could be entered (prior of course) allowing a period of time (12months) for the property to be sold. Failing this, a usufruct could be entered into now with herself and an heir in her will (perhaps a family member) that would or maybe could be activated at the time of her passing, enabling you the full use and access to that property until such times as the matter could be resolved. Of course there are many variables and maybe future children to consider etc... but this would depend on your personal situation and the agree ability of your partner. Either way, there are tools at your disposal and worth the effort in exploration.

This is not legal advice or even sound council.. its just my opinion and a bit of positive reinforcement...

Do not concern yourself with the negativity and the naysayers. Don't entertain their dribble, childish antics nor the provocation. The anonymity of the internet allows small minded people to appear larger AND braver than they otherwise would be.

Keep searching, the answers are there. Anyone who says that its impossible and too much hassle to attempt to protect your interests is apathetic, ignorant and would probably seek comfort in knowing they are not the only person whom was swindled.

Good luck.

[maidee]

better rent SHORT TERM

if you get bored, you can easely switch

i dont understand all those old geezer on retirement visa

i am not 50 so i HAVE to be married to one of those to be able to stick it out here on the yearly begging trips to immigration

once i'm 50 i might ditch the ball & chain & start to live a bit

[stat088]

as i see there are not really helpful replies so far.

to your question: yes it is posible but you have to be married and yor wife need to proof a certain income for the last 6 months. then take the longest repaid period( some 30 years) and the house belongs to the bank.is a bit of hussle but can be done.

I managed to get a loan from a Thai Bank and buy a house and land for me and the wife. The monthly payments taken from my Thai bank account. The money in my account was earned overseas. My wife was unemployed when we got the 10 year loan. The loan has been fully repaid now 10 years later.

The wife has not had a job in that time but takes good care of our two children and looks after the house.

[AZBill]

Pretty small amount of money for so much writing and concern when it comes to the woman you supposedly love! Would you be so concerned if it were a western girl and you were spending much much more? In any event I'll wait for the book!

[Capt Rob]

What exactly is your end-game? You seem to be extremely concerned with a minor "investment" of USD 50k or so in your teerak when you would lose 10x that in farangistan if things go tits up. Seriously mate if you have to do all this legal research over a drop in the bucket you need to re-evaluate yourself or your teerak.

Cake and eat it.

Thanks for the reply.

As I stated earlier if you are happy to walk away this thread is not for you. Secondly if you think 50k US is so trivial I'll send you my bank details. Thirdly 50k US would not buy any significant land over here where I would choose to live. Finally there have been plenty of threads on other alternate methods on this site regarding "protecting ones interests" in land investments, I just wondered if this was a feasible / viable legal alternative to those. If so I have not seen ANY discussion on the issue.

I guess it's OK to spend 100 Baht getting an ursfruct, or more on a 30 year lease or setting up a company, but this concept which required no research and may just be a safer alternative requires me to re-evaluate myself. Great news for all those that have been "taken for a ride", just go re-evaluate yourself......

I will give a hopefully usefull reply.

If you buy a house in the partners name then suggest you arrange both usufruct from her and a loan document to her from you.

The loan will probably for an indefinite period and of necessity interest free ( terms on demand/ demand notice period etc )

You will have to register the loan document. The loan amount will be equal to the purchase price of the property. Further additions/ improvements will not be covered.

The above will hopefully cover you if your partner walks under a bus ( or you do? Will req'd ) and some of your aquired relatives felt entitled to claim on her estate.

Equally if the union goes under you should hopefully get enough back to move on.

Is this all foolproof ? Will you complicate it by getting spliced ? Having children ? As yet untested by me but fingers crossed . . . . . . . .

[macpayne]

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Well i guess 50k US is small potatoes to Mr cashpower but for some of us and for most of us here no doubt in the Land of Smiles its equates to around 1.6 million Bht and here in LOS that should by a lot of potatoes, anyway you should be wary of investing any money here especially where property and houses are concerned when its going to have a local ladies name anywhere near it, too many sob stories here of forangs getting burned with barely the money left in there bank account to get you a one way ticket home.

What exactly is your end-game? You seem to be extremely concerned with a minor "investment" of USD 50k or so in your teerak when you would lose 10x that in farangistan if things go tits up. Seriously mate if you have to do all this legal research over a drop in the bucket you need to re-evaluate yourself or your teerak.

Cake and eat it.

Thanks for the reply.

As I stated earlier if you are happy to walk away this thread is not for you. Secondly if you think 50k US is so trivial I'll send you my bank details. Thirdly 50k US would not buy any significant land over here where I would choose to live. Finally there have been plenty of threads on other alternate methods on this site regarding "protecting ones interests" in land investments, I just wondered if this was a feasible / viable legal alternative to those. If so I have not seen ANY discussion on the issue.

I guess it's OK to spend 100 Baht getting an ursfruct, or more on a 30 year lease or setting up a company, but this concept which required no research and may just be a safer alternative requires me to re-evaluate myself. Great news for all those that have been "taken for a ride", just go re-evaluate yourself......

[xtrnuno41]

Maybe you should look at this site

http://www.infoudonthani.com/house_builder/land_for_sale.php

I know its in Udon, but maybe they can tell you more and even if its possible in other parts of Thailand.

It looks very interesting, i think, for a foreigner.

I didnt have any contact yet with them (otherwise i could tell you more), but im planning to do so.

But sure looks interesting

[xtrnuno41]

Maybe you can check out this site

http://www.infoudonthani.com/house_builder/land_for_sale.php

I know its in Udon, but looks interesting

Didnt had contact yet (otherwise i could tell more),but maybe aswell applyable

in other parts of Thailand.

[xtrnuno41]

Maybe you can check out this site

http://www.infoudonthani.com/house_builder/land_for_sale.php

I know its in Udon, but looks interesting

Didnt had contact yet (otherwise i could tell more),but maybe aswell applyable

in other parts of Thailand.

[mikiea]

What exactly is your end-game? You seem to be extremely concerned with a minor "investment" of USD 50k or so in your teerak when you would lose 10x that in farangistan if things go tits up. Seriously mate if you have to do all this legal research over a drop in the bucket you need to re-evaluate yourself or your teerak.

Cake and eat it.

ehhh.... pull pants down , bend over , close eyes , and pray they brought axel grease with them :-)

[sead]

You can loan her Money. Contract can be set so that that the loan has to be fully repaid after xx year after you ask for it but not sooner than xx years. Meaning that f.ex any time after 10 years you can demand the loan to be fully repaid in xx years. Loan is private and reason should not be stated in Contract which ofc needs to be in both Eng and thai.

[RigPig]

This is a terribly old thread, so I apologize if I have missed some posts.

the object of the exercise is to have something tangible to be able to cash in if it all goes tits up. Loaning money to your wife / gf will get you know where, she just simple either will not have the means or simply will not repay it and you wont have a leg to stand on.

By owning the mortgage / lien on the land / property you will have some recourse in a court of law to reclaim it.

And from research I have done since it is doable.

So basically you loose your money because you asked for it.....

[j7general]

Sometimes it works, but not with young peeps, I am 60 my Thai wife is 54 we really love each other and we laugh a lot

Maybe one day she could take me down , but we have a lot of property now

Lol I own none

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Are you now with no property?

You are only 60.

FedFish-----get some property back!

Your money is far gone!

It is tax deductible. In the Cayman Islands.

[RigPig]

Maybe you can check out this site

http://www.infoudonthani.com/house_builder/land_for_sale.php

I know its in Udon, but looks interesting

Didnt had contact yet (otherwise i could tell more),but maybe aswell applyable

in other parts of Thailand.

A lease can not be passed on and is (at this stage) not renewable, despite what you may be told. None of it has been tested yet.

Debts are, and if the contract is sound the colateral can be sold off to repay it.

If you are the mortgagee then you acn write the terms to suit yourself. If she doesn´t like it then that is a fair indication of where the mindset is. You can use a company to own the land and the company must repay you in default.

[ozyjon]

By CharlieH

''You are and will always be nothing more than a tolerated visitor.''

a second class citizen

I walked away from 50k, but i've made that money back.

would i do it again absolutely NOT

RENT RENT RENT RENT need i tell you again,

[thaibeachlovers]

better rent SHORT TERM

if you get bored, you can easely switch

i dont understand all those old geezer on retirement visa

i am not 50 so i HAVE to be married to one of those to be able to stick it out here on the yearly begging trips to immigration

once i'm 50 i might ditch the ball & chain & start to live a bit

I hope that was said tongue in cheek, but it doesn't come across very well.

[thaibeachlovers]

You can loan her Money. Contract can be set so that that the loan has to be fully repaid after xx year after you ask for it but not sooner than xx years. Meaning that f.ex any time after 10 years you can demand the loan to be fully repaid in xx years. Loan is private and reason should not be stated in Contract which ofc needs to be in both Eng and thai.

IMO that advice is as bad as buying her property in her name. What you gonna do if she can't repay?

[sead]

if house and car and land is in her name. Paid already . If she tries to leave him he can ask for the loan to be repaid. So there goes the car and house and land

Edited January 28, 2015 by sead

[hhgz]

With the lackadaisical attitude, and the OP's number of posts, this certainly seems to be a trolling.

Regardless, OP, you can't own property. You are allowed to lend money to anyone as you wish, and you should have the details in writing. Since you specially mentioned that you aren't interested in a lease, real, or usufruct, there's nothing more to tell you.

[RigPig]

With the lackadaisical attitude, and the OP's number of posts, this certainly seems to be a trolling.

Regardless, OP, you can't own property. You are allowed to lend money to anyone as you wish, and you should have the details in writing. Since you specially mentioned that you aren't interested in a lease, real, or usufruct, there's nothing more to tell you.

I t isn´t a troll post, regardless of what you think.

You are correct, and I am fairly sure this has already been stated my myself, YOU CAN NOT OWN LAND.

However you can protect your investment from unscrupulous people, that is all it is about.

[billphillips]

A foreigner is not allowed to own land in Thailand .... NO exceptions.

In fact if you turn up at the land office with your g/f or wife to make a purchase; she will have to sign documents confirming that the money has not been sourced from you.

If you invest and it goes crappy ... can you get your money back = NO.

You can register a business but you can not own more than 49% of it, however you can give preferential voting rights to yourself. Simple stuff at a trustworthy lawyers office. The result is that you can't own the business or its assets but you can (in theory) control it. You will need a B visa and work permit to make your holding "future proof".

The old advice for foreigners in Thailand stands ...... Only spend, what you can afford to lose.

[scotsman]

About 14 years ago I also got a mortgage drawn up with my girlfriend with a reputable lawyer with me being the lender and her being the mortgage borrower to buy a house with her name as owner and my name as loaner on the chanote. At that time I never signed any form at the land department just my girlfriend with the building company rep. I was told that I did not own the land and if at anytime I wanted my loan repaid my girlfriend would have to pay me back or sell the land and house. Some years later I did see that the government was talking about nominees and I was now getting married to my Girlfriend. I decided to change the mortgage to a usufruct as I trusted my soon to be wife, but still needed protection from Family. The same lawyer told me that it was better to draw up the usufruct before we got married as it can't be broken on divorce,so that's what we did but I could only get 30 years in Pattaya land office they just would not give me life, so at my age at the time it would take me up to 80 years old. We have been living in our house now for 14 years together very happy and my wife has bought a new piece of land in Phetchabun now that land office did ask me to sign the document as my wife has my last name on her ID card. The Thai law is always changing and sometimes there is some grey area"s in it and when it gets to court you can get your money back if you can prove you gave your G/F or wife money as a loan, you here of many cases on this web site. I don't understand why this route is breaking any laws if you ask me as the Farang is not owning the land he only has a loan with a Thai person and the property is his or her's and can be used as collateral if they can't pay you back but as we all say here T.I.T

Regards

Scotsman

[thaibeachlovers]

A while back, the government was muttering about specifically targeting farangs that were obtaining land/ property by giving money to their GFs/ wives, and it was definitely a big no no.

Till it is in black and white, in the LAW, I wouldn't be hoping that a "grey area" would be OK.

[maurerpablo11111]

Buying or building a container house will give you more security. You can always cart it away. It can still be hers after you died. But as long as you are around, the threat that the house is gone if she drives you out will keep her emotionally engaged.