Govt To Ask 33 Banks For Rice Money Loans

[northernjohn]

Where did all the money go or, how did TS's wealth inc.by 45% during the PTP Era????????????????

That is the question, my dear YL?????

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Well as much as I dislike Thaksin I have to admit he has many business out side Thailand. I am not saying he is being honest in them maybe he is but he does do very well off of them also.

[soi41]

And the answer is NO!!!!!!!!! Totally insane. And later you wonder why politicians are so disrespected in Thailand. They must know what they do is bad. Just return those greedy farmers their rice. This is acceptable. There must be a lesson in it for the farmers too!

So if someone came to your school and offered to pay 40-50% more for your language-classes, you would turn them away, because of your high moral standards?? I didn't think so!!

The problem with the rice-scam is, that the added value has not ended with the farmers, but with the middlemen!!

Try to google: Siam Indica

[GeorgeO]

Well, unless everyone has forgotten, this not a government, because they stood down and agreed to dissolve the house, so it is a 'caretaker' government, and as such, it has no legal right to pursue this loan request. It's function is to maintain the status quo, and certainly not get involved with anything that is set to put the country deeper into debt.

If I were the one demanding reforms, and all of the red shirt apologists were saying "what reforms? Spell them Out", I would simply say, "well, let's start by demanding that the current caretaker government allow a full audit of the nation's current wealth.

Let's see how many of the PTP thieves would stick around for that...!!

[northernjohn]

Where did all the money go or, how did TS's wealth inc.by 45% during the PTP Era????????????????

That is the question, my dear YL?????

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Well as much as I dislike Thaksin I have to admit he has many business out side Thailand. I am not saying he is being honest in them maybe he is but he does do very well off of them also.

[MacWalen]

I don't think this is a good example.

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[northernjohn]

Well, unless everyone has forgotten, this not a government, because they stood down and agreed to dissolve the house, so it is a 'caretaker' government, and as such, it has no legal right to pursue this loan request. It's function is to maintain the status quo, and certainly not get involved with anything that is set to put the country deeper into debt.

If I were the one demanding reforms, and all of the red shirt apologists were saying "what reforms? Spell them Out", I would simply say, "well, let's start by demanding that the current caretaker government allow a full audit of the nation's current wealth.

Let's see how many of the PTP thieves would stick around for that...!!

Dubai would have a sudden influx of Thai's and they would not be maid's.

[Bluespunk]

And the answer is NO!!!!!!!!! Totally insane. And later you wonder why politicians are so disrespected in Thailand. They must know what they do is bad. Just return those greedy farmers their rice. This is acceptable. There must be a lesson in it for the farmers too!

So if someone came to your school and offered to pay 40-50% more for your language-classes, you would turn them away, because of your high moral standards?? I didn't think so!!

The problem with the rice-scam is, that the added value has not ended with the farmers, but with the middlemen!!

Try to google: Siam Indica

While the middle men getting a lot of the money is indeed a problem, its not the only one that this disastrous scheme has. Edited January 27, 2014 by Bluespunk

[bigbamboo]

The government has enough money. They just can't access it because the government is in "caretaker" mode due to the elections.

So, basically ..the farmers are not being paid thanks to Suthep.

The government doesn't have any money, only debts, due to it's gross financial mismanagement.

So basically... the farmers are not being paid thanks to Kittirat.

[BlueNoseCodger]

No bank in their right mind is going to loan this administration a dime, unless it can secure it against assets. These criminals will sell out the country to line their own pockets.

Absolute BOCs

If I'm owed 50,000 baht by the government, I have an asset worth 50,000 baht that has the same quality as any other government debt. So a farmer can simply borrow against his givernment debt, no different than borrowing against a government bond.

But the figures don't add up, but the debts are mounting.

Tis nothing but plunder. Arrrrgghh.

And? The farmers are so far borrowing zero against this asset. They should be able to borrow against the full value of this asset.

As to whether Thailand is downing in debt, no it isn't:

UK Debt / GDP is 91%

Germany 82%

Thailand 45%

Thailand can well afford to pump money into the economy. It's going to have to just to recover from Suthep damage, but probably should spend on infrastructure anyway.

Edited January 27, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[mrtoad]

Sutheps not responsible for the mess, this car crash of a government has been predicted way before Suthep bought people out onto the streets.

[Spartakos]

Does anyone remember all those promising rice deals with china that the government so proudly rumbled about few months back? Was is real or were they so stupid as to put a spotlight on their own shady deals that were supposed to be kept secret, is these the same deals they are being investigated about now? Too good to be real.

[MacWalen]

Farmers will learn the hard way that you sell your product for what markets pay or you grow something else. This time its hard to feel sorry for them. Those bankers are no bankers if they lend money. It must hurt but it's the only way out. You pay them and they will pledge crop for the next 10 years.

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[Bluespunk]

No bank in their right mind is going to loan this administration a dime, unless it can secure it against assets. These criminals will sell out the country to line their own pockets.

Absolute BOCs

If I'm owed 50,000 baht by the government, I have an asset worth 50,000 baht that has the same quality as any other government debt. So a farmer can simply borrow against his givernment debt, no different than borrowing against a government bond.

But the figures don't add up, but the debts are mounting.

Tis nothing but plunder. Arrrrgghh.

And? The farmers are so far borrowing zero against this asset. They should be able to borrow against the full value of this asset.

As to whether Thailand is downing in debt, no it isn't:

UK Debt / GDP is 91%

Germany 82%

Thailand 45%

Thailand can well afford to pump money into the economy. It's going to have to just to recover from Suthep damage, but probably should spend on infrastructure anyway.

Personal household debt in Thailand is now 80% of GDP. Not nearly as bad as some countries but not great. That debt is nothing to do with suthep. Though as you say the govt debt isn't too bad.

[brfsa2]

The shit is about to hit the fan...

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[bigbamboo]

No bank in their right mind is going to loan this administration a dime, unless it can secure it against assets. These criminals will sell out the country to line their own pockets.

Absolute BOCs

If I'm owed 50,000 baht by the government, I have an asset worth 50,000 baht that has the same quality as any other government debt. So a farmer can simply borrow against his givernment debt, no different than borrowing against a government bond.

But the figures don't add up, but the debts are mounting.

Tis nothing but plunder. Arrrrgghh.

And? The farmers are so far borrowing zero against this asset. They should be able to borrow against the full value of this asset.

As to whether Thailand is downing in debt, no it isn't:

UK Debt / GDP is 91%

Germany 82%

Thailand 45%

Thailand can well afford to pump money into the economy. It's going to have to just to recover from Suthep damage, but probably should spend on infrastructure anyway.

Forgetting the political angle Thailand's problem is that although it's debt is lower than the UK or Germany it credit worthiness isn't which is why it will struggle to borrow the money it needs to pump into the economy.

The hard facts of financial life are that institutions are nervous about lending to Thailand just now because of it's mismanagement of the rice debacle, it's lying to foreign governments and the markets and it's lack of transparency (e.g. the details of the 2.2 trillion baht loan).

You try borrowing money from a bank with no spending plan and see how far you get.

[tsnyder]

The government has enough money. They just can't access it because the government is in "caretaker" mode due to the elections.

So, basically ..the farmers are not being paid thanks to Suthep.

This has zip to do with Suthep. It has everything to do with very very poor planning by this government.

Nice try at deflection, though.

Actually, it and other attempted deflections by bluenosecodger and oldthaihand99 are pitiful.

This rice scam idea of Thaksin and implemented by his clone Yingluck and White Lie Nittarat, is the sole making of Thaksin Thinks, Pheu Thai Acts and has been a money drain, raft with the corruption, going on 3 years.

[Thai at Heart]

"Govt To Ask 33 Banks For Rice Money Loans"

How about the Farmers bank (i.e. Kasikorn)?

Kasikorns roots are in rice and financing it

The lamsam bunch did quite well out of it, over the decades.. How many of their relatives are democrat MPs?

[Robroona]

The government has enough money. They just can't access it because the government is in "caretaker" mode due to the elections.

So, basically ..the farmers are not being paid thanks to Suthep.

I see you maintain your ridiculous stance about the payments being held up because of Suthep etc. etc. etc.

The money was due to be paid out in October, long before all this started.

You appear to be as daft as your avatar looks. I bet it is your real photo

[Thait Spot]

If this is true then Thailand is in really deep crap. Rob from Peter to pay Paul? Where has the money gone from the countries treasury? Yingluck will need to be called forward and explain where it has all gone! This is not about reds or yellows but about the point that she has to account for the money that does not exist and where the hell did it go and more likely whos pockets it went into!

Right, this is not about reds and yellows... as if!

She replaces a farm subsidy with a rice program. Government gets a rice reserve, the farmers still get their money. The dems and their cronies block all the financing for it, pretend its bankrupting the country, pretend its all corrupt and a scam and use it as an excuse to try to seize power. The usual political blah blah blah of propaganda.

Sounds like the 30 baht healthcare again?

Thaksin put the 30 baht healthcare scheme, the Democrats screamed it was bankrupting hospitals. They have hospitals close their doors to block the scheme, "it is such a catastrophy" they scream! "He's buying poor people votes by bankrupting the hospitals!" Neglecting to mention the 1500 baht per person the government pays for each person in the catchment area.

Then once the coup takes power, the Generals drop the 30 baht charge, and adjust the 1500 to 1800 baht, keeping the scheme intact because it made sense.

When the Democrats get into power by their usual dodgy route, they keep the scheme too, because its good, and popular and the hospitals get most of their income from it and don't want to lose it.

Then Yingluk gets into power, puts back in the 30 baht/visit charge to prevent timewasters using hospital resources needlessly, and now the Democrats pretend the 30 baht scheme was theirs and they oppose the increase in 30 baht! Yet only a few years ago, Democrats were trying to block the whole scheme because it was a disaster that would bankrupt the hospitals!

Well good for you and your lying politicians. Good to see they have you fooled and everyone has such a short memory. It's a pity alzheimers doesn't have a cure because now you can afford to go to hospital to get it treated!

The farmers grow your rice, and the next crop needs fertilizer that is expensive and needs to be paid for. So if the banks will lend the famers money, either directly or indirectly, against their unpaid rice sales, then they get to grow the rice and Thailand gets to eat.

When the yellows stop their scummy political games, the rice pledge scheme will no doubt need tweaking. It's created a bigger rice reserve than is needed, and the shortages in the world have eased and the sale price dropped. Well so what! It will get tweaked, but not by you Dems, because you took yourselves outside of democracy.

This is a text book case of hyper confabulation.

You have taken bits of a few stories and mangled them into a collection of outrageous lies.

If I were you I'd book an appointment to have your frontal lobe examined for damage. Unfortunately it's not reversible.

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[BlueNoseCodger]

Sutheps not responsible for the mess, this car crash of a government has been predicted way before Suthep bought people out onto the streets.

Yes he is, he started his attacks 4th November, he scuppered the 16th November bond issue. So yes, the government were simply going to issue a bond for the shortfall, drop the buy/sell price and tweak the program, and he ensured it was scuppered. Along with all the infrastructure projects.

Did they overpay for the rice? Yep in hindsight. What the price of gold / rice / oil / everything in 6 months time? If Suthep had a crystal ball he's know, he doesn't. He just whines about everything in hindsight.

[Arkady]

Now let's see - 33 banks in Thailand. There are 16 Thai commercial and retail banks and 15 foreign banks, most of which have only one branch. That makes 31 commercial and retail banks in Thailand, some of which are tiny or only do very specialized business in the case of most of the foreign banks. That means the two other banks are probably fully state owned banks such as the Government Savings Bank and Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives that have already been approached. There is also the Government Housing Bank and Exim Bank, not to mention the SME Bank that is already techincally insolvent due to fraudulent lending.

All the private sector banks are subject to capital adequacy limits and most are also listed companies, either in Thailand or in their home countries in the case of the foreign branches. If they lend money under a questionable government guarantee that may be voided by a court later, that has implications for their capital adequacy ratios that could cost them money, not to mention the reputable risk of getting involved in the funding of a scheme that is being investigated for fraud.

I would say this is not going to be a slam dunk for Kittirat and I wonder why he would mention 33 banks, knowing the majority are too small to consider it, even if they wanted to, and that foreign banks can't get involved in political stuff like this. Good luck to him.

[blokker]

Good business sense put it out to the competitive market...

I'm sure a lot will be whining but at least they are trying to get the farmers paid for what they have already sold on promise.

I see a lot of posters hating the idea of for some reason and have no idea why they would wish hardship on hard working farmers. They deserve to be paid in full asap imo.

The government is using off balance sheet financing for the rice scheme, to hide the losses.

They are not even willing to tell tax payers what the losses are exactly.

Supporting poor people is fine; but I recommend just sending them a check in the mail, properly accounted for (as it is tax payers' money). Subsidizing farmers by rigging the whole rice market and trying to hide the losses is just plain stupid.

Edited January 27, 2014 by blokker

[kurtgruen]

Maybe we should just all donate our Thai bank accounts to the govt....help a struggling govt out--NOT!!!

Suthep doesn't like foreigners. Maybe he can arrange to "seize the assets" (all the 800K deposits) of retirees in LOS when he seizes YL assets. That might pay off a few farmers, eh?

This would be especially appropriate for the TV Suthep supporters.

LMAO....I think you got the wrong guy. It was Thaksin, who has made all the racist comments, against us white guys (farangs) and his Government, that keeps moving the goal post from visa rules, medical plan rules to property ownership rules. It was Thaksin, who accused us of "owning most of the land in Thailand and that is why Thai people don't have enough to eat" I think, you should look at the facts, before you start spouting Red propaganda.

[Arkady]

Good business sense put it out to the competitive market...

I'm sure a lot will be whining but at least they are trying to get the farmers paid for what they have already sold on promise.

I see a lot of posters hating the idea of for some reason and have no idea why they would wish hardship on hard working farmers. They deserve to be paid in full asap imo.

The government is using off balance sheet financing for the rice scheme, to hide the losses.

They are not even willing to tell tax payers what the losses are exactly.

Supporting poor people is fine; but I recommend just sending them a check in the mail, properly accounted for (as it is tax payers' money). Subsidizing farmers by rigging the whole rice market and trying to hide the losses is just plain stupid.

Exactly. That is what the IMF recommended. As it is, whatever profit the unpaid farmers might have made from the 2013 harvest has been lost in interest charges to loan sharks and many will lose land as a result of it but the Chinese middle men and corrupt politicians have made out like bandits from it. The scheme was already in deep trouble since before the protests started due to the government's failure to export meaningful quantities of rice.

Giving direct financial aid to needy farmers and spending money on R&D to improve yields and productivity, like Vietnam does, is the way to go. It would do more good to the poor at a fraction of the cost of this putrid scheme.

[casualbiker]

No bank in their right mind is going to loan this administration a dime, unless it can secure it against assets. These criminals will sell out the country to line their own pockets.

Absolute BOCs

If I'm owed 50,000 baht by the government, I have an asset worth 50,000 baht that has the same quality as any other government debt. So a farmer can simply borrow against his givernment debt, no different than borrowing against a government bond.

But the figures don't add up, but the debts are mounting.

Tis nothing but plunder. Arrrrgghh.

And? The farmers are so far borrowing zero against this asset. They should be able to borrow against the full value of this asset.

As to whether Thailand is downing in debt, no it isn't:

UK Debt / GDP is 91%

Germany 82%

Thailand 45%

Thailand can well afford to pump money into the economy. It's going to have to just to recover from Suthep damage, but probably should spend on infrastructure anyway.

The farmers ARE borrowing money to keep afloat BUT the loan sharks are not interested in the rice.. also unless there is a proper and comprehensive audit of the rice mills . What exactly IS the FULL value.

here are the price fluctuations since 2009:

http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=rice&months=60

nothing in the press about this one:

Maldives is seeking to purchase 9,000 tons of parboiled rice in an international tender. The last date for submission of applications is February 27, 2014. According to trade sources, the parboiled rice can be sourced from the U.S., the U.A.E, Australia, Canada, Turkey, Pakistan, India, Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore, Sri Lanka, Europe or South America. - See more at: http://oryza.com/news/tenders/maldives-tenders-buy-9000-tons-parboiled-rice#sthash.VhBjha74.dpuf

Thailands rice prices against others :

http://www.riceauthority.com/prices/

interesting why we didn't hear about these tender sales, where did the money go? :

http://oryza.com/news/tenders/south-korea-buys-almost-70-rice-china-us-2013

http://oryza.com/news/tenders/japan-tenders-buy-51000-tons-rice

there are more but i will let you browse..BUT i will finish with this nugget (i haven't seen it in the Thai press, maybe i missed it)

http://oryza.com/news/rice-news/thailand-national-rice-policy-committee-terminates-rice-mortgage-program

"Thailand's National Rice Policy Committee, headed by the caretaker Prime Minister, has decided not to extend the government rice mortgage program, which is due to expire at the end of February 2014, according to the Thai Public Broadcasting Service. - See more at: http://oryza.com/news/rice-news/thailand-national-rice-policy-committee-terminates-rice-mortgage-program#sthash.CzoKRhOi.dpuf"

[englishoak]

Good business sense put it out to the competitive market...

I'm sure a lot will be whining but at least they are trying to get the farmers paid for what they have already sold on promise.

I see a lot of posters hating the idea of for some reason and have no idea why they would wish hardship on hard working farmers. They deserve to be paid in full asap imo.

The government is using off balance sheet financing for the rice scheme, to hide the losses.

They are not even willing to tell tax payers what the losses are exactly.

Supporting poor people is fine; but I recommend just sending them a check in the mail, properly accounted for (as it is tax payers' money). Subsidizing farmers by rigging the whole rice market and trying to hide the losses is just plain stupid.

To be honest i dont care about the scandal details ive known its a joke since day 1. Just cant understand why people would wish ruin on some farmers and sit and debate about whos to blame instead of paying or allowing to pay the bill and then sort it out in court later.

[heina]

Now let's see - 33 banks in Thailand. There are 16 Thai commercial and retail banks and 15 foreign banks, most of which have only one branch. That makes 31 commercial and retail banks in Thailand, some of which are tiny or only do very specialized business in the case of most of the foreign banks. That means the two other banks are probably fully state owned banks such as the Government Savings Bank and Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives that have already been approached. There is also the Government Housing Bank and Exim Bank, not to mention the SME Bank that is already techincally insolvent due to fraudulent lending.

All the private sector banks are subject to capital adequacy limits and most are also listed companies, either in Thailand or in their home countries in the case of the foreign branches. If they lend money under a questionable government guarantee that may be voided by a court later, that has implications for their capital adequacy ratios that could cost them money, not to mention the reputable risk of getting involved in the funding of a scheme that is being investigated for fraud.

I would say this is not going to be a slam dunk for Kittirat and I wonder why he would mention 33 banks, knowing the majority are too small to consider it, even if they wanted to, and that foreign banks can't get involved in political stuff like this. Good luck to him.

Banks do not have choice. Government bonds interest rate is higher then any bank fixed deposit interest rate. If banks do not buy government bonds then peoples extract their money from banks to buy bonds. Recently it was very hard to buy gov bonds for the peoples. Did not check how is it now. So local banks buy bonds or default. Edited January 27, 2014 by heina

[BlueNoseCodger]

Personal household debt in Thailand is now 80% of GDP. Not nearly as bad as some countries but not great. That debt is nothing to do with suthep. Though as you say the govt debt isn't too bad.

Untill the government and household debts are in internal currency ( thai baht) it is easy to devaluate it. If Thailand will have IMF based standards politic as ex Democrat party PM Chuan Lekpai did and borrow money in external currency aka USD then export oriented economic will expect difficulties.

Personal household debt isn't secured by the government, that's a misdirection. Government debt is 45% of GDP, that's low.

Just because Chuan would like to borrow money in baht doesn't mean there is enough people lending in baht to fund growth. So if you have to borrow in dollars or euros, you have to stabilize the baht, and to do that you need to stabilize the political machine.

That means a regular stable election cycle, and an end to these endless coups every 2 years, and no more Sutheps and their destructive mobs.

[Dogmatix]

Good business sense put it out to the competitive market...

I'm sure a lot will be whining but at least they are trying to get the farmers paid for what they have already sold on promise.

I see a lot of posters hating the idea of for some reason and have no idea why they would wish hardship on hard working farmers. They deserve to be paid in full asap imo.

The government is using off balance sheet financing for the rice scheme, to hide the losses.

They are not even willing to tell tax payers what the losses are exactly.

Supporting poor people is fine; but I recommend just sending them a check in the mail, properly accounted for (as it is tax payers' money). Subsidizing farmers by rigging the whole rice market and trying to hide the losses is just plain stupid.

To be honest i dont care about the scandal details ive known its a joke since day 1. Just cant understand why people would wish ruin on some farmers and sit and debate about whos to blame instead of paying or allowing to pay the bill and then sort it out in court later.

Kittirat should ask the DSI to track down the crooks who have plundered from the rice pledging scheme and force them to repay what they stole and pay a penalty equivalent to 10 times the theft or have their assets liquidated immediately to pay it. Then he would be able to pay back the farmers with interest on their loan shark loans.

[Dogmatix]

Now let's see - 33 banks in Thailand. There are 16 Thai commercial and retail banks and 15 foreign banks, most of which have only one branch. That makes 31 commercial and retail banks in Thailand, some of which are tiny or only do very specialized business in the case of most of the foreign banks. That means the two other banks are probably fully state owned banks such as the Government Savings Bank and Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives that have already been approached. There is also the Government Housing Bank and Exim Bank, not to mention the SME Bank that is already techincally insolvent due to fraudulent lending.

All the private sector banks are subject to capital adequacy limits and most are also listed companies, either in Thailand or in their home countries in the case of the foreign branches. If they lend money under a questionable government guarantee that may be voided by a court later, that has implications for their capital adequacy ratios that could cost them money, not to mention the reputable risk of getting involved in the funding of a scheme that is being investigated for fraud.

I would say this is not going to be a slam dunk for Kittirat and I wonder why he would mention 33 banks, knowing the majority are too small to consider it, even if they wanted to, and that foreign banks can't get involved in political stuff like this. Good luck to him.

Banks do not have choice. Government bonds interest rate is higher then any bank fixed deposit interest rate. If banks do not buy government bonds then peoples extract their money from banks to buy bonds. Recently it was very hard to buy gov bonds for the peoples. Did not check how is it now. So local banks buy bonds or default.

What you don't understand is that government bonds are guaranteed by the full faith and credit of the Thai government and attract a risk asset weighting accordingly. A loan that is guaranteed by a caretaker government that might not have the legal authority to guarantee it is a different type of risk asset under prudential banking standards.