Thai Middle Way offers exit

[inutil]

The only interesting middle way proposition ive seen so far has been one stupid throwaway article where a red shirt was invited to attack the red shirts policies and a yellow shirt supporter was invited to tear apart the protesters stance. So why not do something similar if you want to fill a page. Why not go and look for all the acts of corruption big and small that didnt start and end with thaksin and his party. Im fairly sure youd fill an internet with the information.

[pipkins]

Rubbish as it was, he wrote about he skated over one the main problems. In the third Para from the end.

There is no political party emerging that can win at the ballot box as they would suffer the same attacks as Yingluck if they did not follow the yellow agenda word for word.

There is no middle way here.

democracy - or fascist impose Poodles Council and rule top down from Sutheps mouth.

The is already dictating what will happen when he is in power, think how bad he would become if he got his hands on it.

Nice to see the Air Force distance themselves from the Army today... In print.

Yes, the air force break was noteworthy.

So was this in NY Times. They really hate Suthep if you read it often.

The reporting today on An Aristocrat socialite actively supporting the Reds, from a very very high position. Saw her on TV last week and she was really letting some protester have it.

Bless em, as she is Very High So indeed, they had to shut up and listen to her for a while.

What is noticable here is that the Yingluck Government has taken its case to the real media that exist outside of Thailand and they have trounced Suthep in every department. The underlying story is Yingluck as plucky woman fighitng off horrible old men in the Courts, Army, Media and old Suthep himself. That is the angle and you'll not change it by watching Bluesky.

Hence Suthep mob writing to Obama and protesting foreign media. They really have no support and thailand cannot go forward with him at the helm.

Edited January 29, 2014 by pipkins

[MaxLee]

Thai Middle Way offers exit

Yep, in other words, let's save face, and let business continue as usual

1. exploit the taxpayers with your populist policy SCAMS

2.let the rich and powerful elite and other infulential people get away with crime, murder and theft

3. let the Pheu Thai take the laws into their own hands, as they demonstrated SUCCESSFULLY with their fiasco with the cowards of the Election committee

4. brainwash the nation's AND children's brains dry until they die of, lack of enthusiasm and energy and complete loss of spirit; No brain no gains

Mai pen Rai.,... Middle way out,... save face.... Red wins anyway on February 2nd,... congratulations

Edited January 29, 2014 by MaxLee

[bigbamboo]

Whatever the 'Middle Way' is something has to happen to replace the intransigence of Sooty and Tacky and it has to happen before Thailand is pulled apart for good.

[Thaddeus]

Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep.............

[JoeThePoster]

Thai Middle Way offers exit

It's more likely to be the middle finger way.

[tingtongteesood]

yes, because corruption started with thaksin and will end with thaksins removal. Youre absolutely right! and thats the solution everyone is waiting for.

No it didn't and no it won't, we all know that but it would be a very good step in the right direction. 'Oh oh but corruption is endemic and it's gone on for years and you can never stop it' - it will never stop if we don't try and that is what the protestors want, to try and stop the corruption and to insstitute checks and balances so that such breaches of trust can't be allowed to go unpunishged in the future. The article may be somewhat biased but for the most part it IS CORRECT.

[MaxLee]

Thai Middle Way offers exit

It's more likely to be the middle finger way.

WRONG, It's the smiley smiley thank you in your face and stabbing in your back way...

[inutil]

yes, because corruption started with thaksin and will end with thaksins removal. Youre absolutely right! and thats the solution everyone is waiting for.

No it didn't and no it won't, we all know that but it would be a very good step in the right direction. 'Oh oh but corruption is endemic and it's gone on for years and you can never stop it' - it will never stop if we don't try and that is what the protestors want, to try and stop the corruption and to insstitute checks and balances so that such breaches of trust can't be allowed to go unpunishged in the future. The article may be somewhat biased but for the most part it IS CORRECT.

No, corruption wont be stopped by taking steps to make sure that one side gains all the benefits. Thats CALLED corruption.

Corruption will end when checks and balances are respected and function. The rule of law is respected and functions. The instruments of state oppression (the army and police) are neutral, unpoliticised, and take orders solely from the head of state through parliament (this being a constitutional monarchy after all and not an absolute one). It will also be helped by senate reform and of course the dismantling of yellow sympathetic civic processes put in place following the coup of 2006 in the last 'attempt' to remove corruption. See the first statement as a reminder of how well that turned out. Corruption exists WHEN the machinery of state is used to destroy and undermine electoral accountability for its own nefarious ends and goals. It is not ended when we all go repeating "but thaksin!!!" He was after all tried and convicted. And then given a free pass to leave the country by the aforementioned institutions in an attempt to expel him from Thailand. But he continues to retain massive popular support. Its a fact of life.

Thailand is flirting with a civil war. The only way out of this is reconciliation. And the only way you garner reconciliation is by bringing the people with influence and power together to agree a way forward. And the only way youre going to bring those people together is amnesty for past misdeeds. Im with you man, i was furious when South Africa did the same thing. But the legacy of Mandela was that he took one of the most dangerous periods in South African history and if nothing else, went against the common perception and looked forward to building a better country, not backwards to revenge for the injustice his people held. And lets be honest, this isnt apartheid here, all parties have taken the reigns of power and all parties have used them to benefit themselves and their interests. Sometiimes its been through democracy, other times through authoritarian means. The results are the same in every period: my team, yay!

The middle way is negotiation and moving forward to find reform. There is no other middle way. There is no magical solution through oppression of one side that can call itself the middle way, since that is the very essence of what we mean by corruption.

[Dogmatix]

The Nation is a bit slow picking this up. The article appeared on Asia Times Online on 13 Jan. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/SEA-01-130114.html. Part 2 should be coming out soon.

[JoeLing]

Rubbish as it was, he wrote about he skated over one the main problems. In the third Para from the end.

There is no political party emerging that can win at the ballot box as they would suffer the same attacks as Yingluck if they did not follow the yellow agenda word for word.

There is no middle way here.

democracy - or fascist impose Poodles Council and rule top down from Sutheps mouth.

The is already dictating what will happen when he is in power, think how bad he would become if he got his hands on it.

Nice to see the Air Force distance themselves from the Army today... In print.

Yes, the air force break was noteworthy.

On the other hand, the Marines are training very hard to learn how to disperse any thread to the nation.

[Thai at Heart]

In turn, Pridi Banomyong, the famous leader of the political movement that led to Prajadhipok's exile, thrice exiled himself, in 1934, 1947, and definitively in 1949. He later died in Paris in 1983. Pridi's nemesis, Police General Phao Sriyanond, lost out in a power struggle in 1957 and moved with his fortune to Geneva, finally dying there without seeing his homeland again.

Why does he keep saying this? Pridi didn't exile himself by choice, he exiled himself because he would've been killed or jailed had he stayed. He tried to come back, hence the two pro-Pridi coup attempts. It's a myth that he stayed exiled voluntarily - throughout his life he called for the overthrow of the military dictatorship and reactionary regime and rightly so. He died in exile because the powers that be wouldn't allow him back, not because he wanted to stay in exile. Puey left because he would've been jailed or killed had he stayed. It wasn't because he wanted to be a 'gentleman' (though by all accounts he was). Thanom exiled himself because, again, the powers that be requested it and it took a massacre to achieve that. When those same powers invited him back it provoked another massacre at Thammasat University on October 6th 1976.

I can only conclude Race has a pretty naive view of Thai history. Typical "old hand" stuff really - very concious of the way the Thai elite see things, and he has obviously absorbed much of that, at least by osmosis through constant proximity to them. This may have been the way things went down in the imaginary of the Thai elite - but I think it glosses & elides the real social struggles and societal conflicts that have taken place.

The point is, these earlier Thai exiles -- losers in political struggles -- accepted their fate and thereby played by the rules of the game. They surely didn't want to depart, but once they lost their struggle, they also accepted exile patiently until the situation back in Bangkok changed. Thaksin, as a megalomaniac, violated this norm -- along with one VERY BIG other norm -- and that's the root of the problem today.

As I wrote, Pridi didn't accept exile (and why should he have? he was fitted up for a crime he was nothing to do with), hence the two pro-Pridi coup attempts. And he would've no doubt attempted a come back after that had he commanded the support of similar social forces to Thaksin. This is no defense of Thaksin, but I don't find these comparisons worthwhile at all. Thanom had neither elite backing nor popular support when he was exiled - he had no choice. Actually he and his son Narong were willing to keep on killing to cling on to power, but as you probably know, the King intervened.

There is no norm here. The Thai elite might like to believe that in the past people have behaved as gentleman etc and that Thaksin is an exception (another quasi-"old hand" Steven B. Young also espouses this view) but in reality it's just fantasy. The people mentioned 'accepted' exile in that they had no other choice once the elite had abandoned them, given - bar Pridi (who did have popular support but not support that was capable of a mass uprising) - they commanded no popular support they could mobilize to oppose elite will.

If there is no norm, then why do the Thai "elite" these days (as well as many, many members of the Bangkok middle class) believe there is such a norm and that Thaksin is violating it? When it comes to norms, in any case, beliefs are more important than whatever the "objective" historical record might reveal to people with the time and training to study it closely. And there is no doubt that Thaksin was widely perceived from c. 2002 to 2006 as not playing the role of a Thai prime minister as that role was expected to be played, according to norms, and then from 2006 to the present, not playing the role of an ousted prime minster (eventually, an exiled ousted prime minister) in ways consistent with the norm. He is also suspected of scheming to violate the Ultimate Norm, when the opportunity presents itself. I don't say that he is, I only say that people suspect him of it. If you think this elite and middle-class perception of Thaksin and his attitudes/behavior doesn't explain their animus, then what exactly DOES explain it?

Because as a rule, arrogant people believe they can predict the actions of others.

They are finding it very difficult to pigeon hole thaksin because they think they understand him, but reality is showing that they don't.

It's a little like watching Dr.Evil with his crazy plans to kill the spy. They believe they are much smarter and in control only to be out smarted time and again.

[Thai at Heart]

Would you like a list of actions that would fill this page that are do's and do nots of being a counties leader?

Maybe you grow a brain and call corruption for wheat it is.

Starting with the sale of Dtac to singtel, defend that one first please.

Blah blah blah! Thaksin! thaksin! Them Bad! Us good!

I thought this was about A MIDDLE WAY??? Or was i just imagining that people would suddenly grow a brain.

The sale if dtac. A rather delicious slip of the keyboard.

Indeed a deal carried out by one of the amart for his telephone company that was not taxed within the law exactly as Thaksin deal to sell AIS to Singtel.

Amazing how Thai law sees 2 identical things differently.

[quiuvo]

"Jeffrey Race is a Harvard-trained political analyst and Bangkok-based business consultant" and that means what? Not Harvard educated let alone graduate. So what is trained?

[wwest5829]

More nonsensical tripe from Race?

This author focused on Mr. Thaksin as the fundamental root cause of Thai conflict and extends the reach of his "criminal empire" far beyond anything that would have been possible without the collaboration of most Thais in the elite establishment. Mr. Race's opinion piece also characterizes Thais as some sort of unique "pathological" culture that sets out from the age of reason to defraud and plunder the country as long as they pass the joint around.

The author also fails to introduce the element of a required shift in the application of law, order and justice for all to apply to everyone fairly and equally. This would seem to be a prerequisite and huge mountain for Thais to overcome since their basic approach to law and order is based on money and friends among the elite. It is also surprising that someone with as much Thailand experience as Mr. Race would fail to look back at Thailand's history of conflict beyond his focus on the Shinawatra family and a random mentioning of 1973 conflict. For example, his opinion omits the astonishing wealth accumulation in the Thai military and business class elite complex as the direct result of US and foreign backed investment in military and direct funding aid. Monies that were siphoned off in the elite pecking order and passed around.

Mr. Race's article is thoughtful but clearly seeks to curry favor with the establishment, shade and excuse away the self serving motives of his view and pandering to his club member board while he is jogging around the club track feeling intimidated by the lower echelons of Thai society and social structure who are protesting and encroaching on the fence of his high class club with "exclusive" membership. This encroachment by the poor in establishment space was made all right by Mr. Race's awareness that he needn't be concerned since the club fat cats "had made a deal" with the protesters.

The fair, just, and impartial application of law and order at all levels of Thai society, government, politics and business would seem to be the essential way forward toward change. Without rule of law as it applies to all regardless of status or wealth, Thailand is doomed to become a failed state. That happens when the government, military, police, politics, and life in general gets corrupted as a "way of life" it is impossible to repair and citizens are not secure.

Mr. Race thrashes around looking for a two step solution by suggesting that a claw back of money and a willing disappearance of the Thaksin clan would be the first condition. He follows that up with a vague suggestion that someone from the elite class who has a vision of rural uplift and who is "honest" among other qualities and would be the savior of the nation so to speak. This view is not in touch with reality about Thailand. Mr Race and his other club members "making deals" with the lower class to avoid encroachment should consider a revision of the concept of law and order in Thailand.

Aside from the "nonsensical tripe" comment....thank you. Not all long posts are worth reading, I found that your's was.

[ableguy]

Just to balance things up.

No mention of the rule of law.

No mention of atrocities commited by Thai forces against Thais.

Strong personal attack on Shinawatras without substantiating evidence.

No mention of elections.

Come on Jeffrey, if you want to write a biased article, you need to me more subtle than this.

What rubbish.

[peterquixote]

I never thought I would love Thailand when I went there, but I do now.

I never thought I would hate the man called Thaksin, and I do now

I met my Wife in 2011 and we are in Thailand half of each year.

We had to send my Isaan father in law some money,

because that Shinawatra scum will not pay him for his rice.