Mmmmm so When's a good age to go from EP to IP ?

[SurinBeach]

Just had a chat with a mate, quite a few chats actually.... who had two luk khrueng kids same age (ish) as mine ie between the 4 and 7 bracket....

Our kids are at a private school on the English Program ie two semester pa and 70% English 30% Thai

We both want to send our kids to an "International school" to study 90% English 10% Thai as we want our kids to get a good Thai Language Foundation first....

But the question just popped up but .....what if we leave it too late and their English is not good enough for the International School ....

I was planning on Age 10-11 ....to move to International school/program.

There is no right or wrong or correct answer as it's very child dependent, just looking for opinions and/or experiences ...

Cheers

SB....

[DaBloodyMess]

I work at an international school and can give an answer based on my experience.

We have an ESL stream and mainstream classes in KS3/middle school and I dare say there is a similar systems in other schools. The kids need to get through the ESL stream before they join the mainstream if their entrance scores for English are below a certain level. Not knowing your kids, it would be hard to tell if they would be immediately main-streamed or have to go through the ESL classes first, but its something to keep in mind.

We find that if a child is main-streamed by year 7 or 8, they have a good chance of being able to take the first language Cambridge exams for IGCSE and AS/A level. If they linger in the ESL stream much longer than that, they tend to only be capable of the second language exams for the senior subjects (when available) and can struggle with some subjects which require quite a bit of English language ability (and dont have an ESL option).

So in short, my answer to your question would be that they need to be fully integrated into an international program by year 7 or 8 to have the best chance of success in their senior schooling (if taking international examinations).

[zeichen]

Since the majority of the students at Thai International schools are Thai, there really wouldn't be much difference in and EP and International Schools. I have worked in both International schools and EP programs and have had top students in both. The real issue would be your involvement. The accent and pronunciation would be more influenced by your English spoken at home than it would be in class. I have had students that had an English speaking father and a Thai mother and the student was barely able to communicate in English. I have also had students that were Thai/French and had perfect English because their parents both spoke English well and exposed them to travel and had many English speaking friends.

There is no blanket system but trust me when I say that very few Thai International schools provide an education equal to their high cost. If you really want to spend 500-800K baht a year for school, you might be better off just going to your home country for a few years and have them study there. For the 100-200k Baht International schools you won't get much better than the 40k-50k baht a semester EP programs.

[SurinBeach]

Hi DaBLoodyMess.....

Thanks for the reply....

Actually my son's Thai is bad (ie low 50% scores, where as his English scores are 80%/90%) so I'm thinking he should be OK for IP Mainstream without ESL...

I'm also thinking if I put him into Full IP now his Thai might never be good !

Is an EP with 70% English 30% Thai considered "ESL" ...

I work at an international school and can give an answer based on my experience.

We have an ESL stream and mainstream classes in KS3/middle school and I dare say there is a similar systems in other schools. The kids need to get through the ESL stream before they join the mainstream if their entrance scores for English are below a certain level. Not knowing your kids, it would be hard to tell if they would be immediately main-streamed or have to go through the ESL classes first, but its something to keep in mind.

We find that if a child is main-streamed by year 7 or 8, they have a good chance of being able to take the first language Cambridge exams for IGCSE and AS/A level. If they linger in the ESL stream much longer than that, they tend to only be capable of the second language exams for the senior subjects (when available) and can struggle with some subjects which require quite a bit of English language ability (and dont have an ESL option).

So in short, my answer to your question would be that they need to be fully integrated into an international program by year 7 or 8 to have the best chance of success in their senior schooling (if taking international examinations).

[SurinBeach]

Hi Zeichen

My kids English is pretty good (I think).....although they do sound a tad American !

There is no blanket system but trust me when I say that very few Thai International schools provide an education equal to their high cost. If you really want to spend 500-800K baht a year for school, you might be better off just going to your home country for a few years and have them study there. For the 100-200k Baht International schools you won't get much better than the 40k-50k baht a semester EP programs.

Yeh I'm thinking the same but cant face 7-10 years back in the UK with Wet winters and wet summers ....

Since the majority of the students at Thai International schools are Thai, there really wouldn't be much difference in and EP and International Schools. I have worked in both International schools and EP programs and have had top students in both. The real issue would be your involvement. The accent and pronunciation would be more influenced by your English spoken at home than it would be in class. I have had students that had an English speaking father and a Thai mother and the student was barely able to communicate in English. I have also had students that were Thai/French and had perfect English because their parents both spoke English well and exposed them to travel and had many English speaking friends.

There is no blanket system but trust me when I say that very few Thai International schools provide an education equal to their high cost. If you really want to spend 500-800K baht a year for school, you might be better off just going to your home country for a few years and have them study there. For the 100-200k Baht International schools you won't get much better than the 40k-50k baht a semester EP programs.

[focus27]

Lots of issues here, so let's try to unpick them.

Firstly, and most importantly, what is spoken at home? Is it mainly English? I myself was brought up bilingual and can remember the frustrations of changing country, but both languages 'stuck' at about the age of 7 or 8 - before that, one of the two was dominant depending on the environment. The research I've read seems to back this up, in that the advantages of being bilingual in terms of expressiveness and processing come after a few years. Initially, the child may appear to be doing less well than his monolingual peers, but that's just because the brain is processing double the input.

At home, my daughter (5 yo) will generally speak to me in English and to her mother in Thai. I think it is good for her to keep both languages fluent; she is in a British school so English is becoming dominant.

I taught briefly at an EP Thai school and the language ability of the students was generally very poor - and far below what would be expected as they approached national exams such as GCSE. The reason was that the rest of the school was all in Thai so that with minimum effort a student could go through the EP program 'passing' each year without learning very much. The culture of the school is thus important in maintaining the standards of an EP program and how many genuine native English-speakers are on the staff.

An International School will, at least, maintain standards in English, with ESL for struggling students. Even here, the culture at home is very important. Most students will end up speaking better English than their parents - that's the point of sending them to an IS - and the best students have parents who support their English beyond the few hours at school. Will your kids' Thai suffer as a consequence? Probably a little, compared with being in a Thai school, but which language is more important? And if you are aware of this, encourage them to read books in Thai and watch those educational Thai channels etc.

I just remembered the case of a highly gifted Thai boy who first came to my IntSch in year 6. He had been at one of Bangkok's elite technical schools (can't recall the name) but decided to go into an English school so that he would be fluent in English by the time university approached: his aim is to go to MIT. So even if he is now in a less challenging environment in terms of scientific rigour, he knows he can learn that stuff at home and with private tutors. However, he was aware that even in one of the top Thai schools, he wouldn't get that level of English fluency needed to go to the USA.

So, from my experiences as a kid, parent and teacher, I wouldn't leave it till secondary school - I think any time between ages 7 to 9 would be good to be in an English environment.

Sorry, ended up a bit long.

[DaBloodyMess]

Hi DaBLoodyMess.....

Thanks for the reply....

Actually my son's Thai is bad (ie low 50% scores, where as his English scores are 80%/90%) so I'm thinking he should be OK for IP Mainstream without ESL...

I'm also thinking if I put him into Full IP now his Thai might never be good !

Is an EP with 70% English 30% Thai considered "ESL" ...

The worry about Thai language is definitely a concern. If I am not mistaken, we are only required to give them 4 periods a week of Thai by law, the rest is all in English.

It is hard to say if your son would be ESL without seeing test scores. The biggest problem I face with students who come from Thai schools (even EP programs) is a lack of critical thinking skills. Western curriculum's are very student centred and ask for the kids to form opinions, critically analyse etc. From my experience with kids that have been through the Thai system these skills are very poorly developed.

I did notice one other poster who isn't so sure on the quality of the education delivered. Having now experienced secondary schools here and in my home country, I am convinced that the kids here get an education that is just as good, if not better in some cases. Yes it is more expensive, that's almost a given. Good cheese also costs more to buy here than in Europe... there are some luxuries here that will cost more if you expect western standards.

There is no way to cheat the system, all work and exams are externally moderated in the senior years. My school is one of the cheapest out there and we still have kids achieve very high A level results that get them into top universities. So the lesson is to ask to see exam results when choosing a school. Don't be hypnotised by fancy facilities or slick marketing.

[Scott]

The difficulty in doing these comparisons is that a really high percentage of kids in Western countries complete High School. In Thailand, many are already shuffled off to vocational school after grade 9. You usually have to pass an entrance exam to get into G. 10.