Rice-pledge catastrophe could be final straw for Thailand

[djjamie]

Remember that this article is from the hopelessly biased 'Nation'. The problem is that the EC wont let the government borrow the money it needs to pay the farmers.

However much has been syphoned off in corrupt payments, the scheme has let to financial stability for farmers (until now) and the Isaan economy is booming. Once the government is returned to power taxing the rich more and collecting taxes that are due (tax evasion here is worse than Greece) should seal the hole in the coffers.

The corruption is lamentable, but this scheme has resulted in a major redistribution of wealth. For too long the Isaan and Lanna have been the rice baskets for Bangkok and its source of cheap exploitable labour. This is changing and Sutheps patrons dont like it.

The extended family are farmers. They grow rice.

3 years after this scheme was implemented they still don't own a car. Rain still leaks in through the roof of their house. The husband has a 2nd job. Rice is turning brown and they are still waiting on payment thus I have had to lend them some money (against my better judgement)

I asked if they know about higher yields through improving water management, better seed selection, alternate pesticides, more efficient harvesting methods and soil analysis.

Their eyes glazed up while staring over the 18" black and white TV they bought 20 years ago.

I felt sorry for them as I was adjusting myself on the straw mat that doubles as their bed.

​Boom? The only boom they heard was the farmer up the road committing suicide because he didn't get paid either.

Financial stability is being able to support yourself for 3 months without relying on your next payment.

Financial stability is NOT committing suicide if you don't get paid.

Finanical stability is NOT having to rely on loan sharks to survive.

All you are doing is mirroring the PTP in showing contempt for the voter base that brought them into power and by denying there is a problem is not going to help the farmers.

​I take great solace in the fact (as I am sure the farmers do to) that it is not you that will decide if Yingluck should be impeached along with 15 ministers of the PTP because of this failed scheme, it is the NACC that will decide and rest assured they nor Moody's will put any blame on the EC for this failure either.

[chainarong]

When you use the fritters account method ( money you haven't got) to run a country , you are desperate , the instigators of this scam should be run out of office and banned for life, appropriation's at budget time should have been made, not policy on the run , as usual all talk ,no action from the PTP

[Artisi]

Tragically 3 Thai Farmers have taken their lives SO FAR because of this SHIN RICE SCAM !!! Not to mention the hardship on so many other Families that may not have even voted for this Criminal On the Run in Dubai ........ How about sending over some compensation Cheques MISTER ELITE IN DUBAI !!! ....... Pathetic ! .........

Send money to WHOM!, fair go sport do you think I'm made of money and I certainly wouldn't waste it on riff-raff.

[djjamie]

This must be so frustrating for Abhisit as well. He warned the PTP before the scheme even started that it would end up like this.

Those years at Eton and Oxford were not wasted learning how to say "Welcome" correctly. It was spent learning about democracy and the effects of populism.

Abhisit tours esteemed universities and is a key note speaker at conferences teaching the next generation of global leaders on the effects of populism. He taught them that this is excately where the PTP would end up. He was right. Yingluck didn't listen then and won't acknowledge it now. Imagine if she listened to Abhisit 3 years ago. The rice scheme cost 700 billion. What was the cost of the high speed trains? 780 billion I think.

http://www.fnfasia.org/efn-asia-conference-2012/

Populism destroys human values of pride, self-respect and hard work. When you make people accustomed to populism, they always demand more of it. Populism, when unleashed, doesn't go away and often eats its own master as has been shown here.

[jaidam]

That this government can't even pay the farmers for their rice makes the government's leader over in Dubai's claim that his govt sent money overseas to him to the tune of 30,000,000,000 in october last year even more sickening. Although if the farmers really do love him as much as his fans on this forum have us believe, maybe they are happy for him that his wealth has skyrocketed by 450% in the last year thanks to him trousering their rice money. No doubt a huge consolation to them. A less kind person could consider it as fools getting exactly what they deserve

Is there any foundation to your claims about Thaksin recieving 30 Billion Baht last year? Just wondering where you read that.

Glad you asked.

He boasted to the reporters at Forbes magazine. quote from article "Forbes conservatively estimated his family’s holdings at $600 million this summer, but he told us he’s had $1 billion of the funds seized by a succeeding government returned to him."

from http://www.forbes.com/sites/timferguson/2012/10/29/thaksin-in-exile-advising-sister-digging-for-gold/

[rogerdee123]

That this government can't even pay the farmers for their rice makes the government's leader over in Dubai's claim that his govt sent money overseas to him to the tune of 30,000,000,000 in october last year even more sickening. Although if the farmers really do love him as much as his fans on this forum have us believe, maybe they are happy for him that his wealth has skyrocketed by 450% in the last year thanks to him trousering their rice money. No doubt a huge consolation to them. A less kind person could consider it as fools getting exactly what they deserve

Is there any foundation to your claims about Thaksin recieving 30 Billion Baht last year? Just wondering where you read that.

Glad you asked.

He boasted to the reporters at Forbes magazine. quote from article "Forbes conservatively estimated his family’s holdings at $600 million this summer, but he told us he’s had $1 billion of the funds seized by a succeeding government returned to him."

from http://www.forbes.com/sites/timferguson/2012/10/29/thaksin-in-exile-advising-sister-digging-for-gold/

That's where the money went ... instead of to the farmers.

[noitom]

The "bottom rung in Thai society." Raise the real estate tax dramatically, pledge it back to the bottom rung to pay them for their hard earned money. Start charging for parking in Bangkok, raise property tax - The situation in Thailand with no property tax is untenable and it's a great way to pay down the debt to the farmers.

[kingalfred]

The "bottom rung in Thai society." Raise the real estate tax dramatically, pledge it back to the bottom rung to pay them for their hard earned money. Start charging for parking in Bangkok, raise property tax - The situation in Thailand with no property tax is untenable and it's a great way to pay down the debt to the farmers.

ah I see make the wealth creators in Bangkok pay for the mass corruption and incompetence.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Thait Spot]

Remember that this article is from the hopelessly biased 'Nation'. The problem is that the EC wont let the government borrow the money it needs to pay the farmers.

However much has been syphoned off in corrupt payments, the scheme has let to financial stability for farmers (until now) and the Isaan economy is booming. Once the government is returned to power taxing the rich more and collecting taxes that are due (tax evasion here is worse than Greece) should seal the hole in the coffers.

The corruption is lamentable, but this scheme has resulted in a major redistribution of wealth. For too long the Isaan and Lanna have been the rice baskets for Bangkok and its source of cheap exploitable labour. This is changing and Sutheps patrons dont like it.

You can regurgitate this pack of lies as many times as you can cut and paste it on this board - but the one thing that matters is that the rice farmers know whose fault it is.

Preaching to the expats on here is a waste of your time and theirs.

If you really feel compelled to do something, pick a village, loan them your cash. I'm sure they'll be grateful. I'm not sure they'll vote PT though.

[LarryBird]

The "bottom rung in Thai society." Raise the real estate tax dramatically, pledge it back to the bottom rung to pay them for their hard earned money. Start charging for parking in Bangkok, raise property tax - The situation in Thailand with no property tax is untenable and it's a great way to pay down the debt to the farmers.

I completely agree with respect to the real estate tax.. Note, it's also a pretty hard tax to evade.

[trogers]

The "bottom rung in Thai society." Raise the real estate tax dramatically, pledge it back to the bottom rung to pay them for their hard earned money. Start charging for parking in Bangkok, raise property tax - The situation in Thailand with no property tax is untenable and it's a great way to pay down the debt to the farmers.

This will be like asking MPs to bite their own a*se...

[FangFerang]

Remember that this article is from the hopelessly biased 'Nation'. The problem is that the EC wont let the government borrow the money it needs to pay the farmers.

However much has been syphoned off in corrupt payments, the scheme has let to financial stability for farmers (until now) and the Isaan economy is booming. Once the government is returned to power taxing the rich more and collecting taxes that are due (tax evasion here is worse than Greece) should seal the hole in the coffers.

The corruption is lamentable, but this scheme has resulted in a major redistribution of wealth. For too long the Isaan and Lanna have been the rice baskets for Bangkok and its source of cheap exploitable labour. This is changing and Sutheps patrons dont like it.

What you wrote is true, so stop it! Don't you see that Thaksin is Lucifer incarnate? Don't you see that that the bus-burning, strangle holding protesters are pure as the driven snow and entirely non-violent? Don't you see that the country was happy and prosperous and clean long before Lucifer-Hitler-Thaksin was born? Fool!! Don't you read TV? Truth has no place in this fiasco (because calling it a debate is, itself, debatable). How dare you? You could hurt TV revenues..

[jonclark]

Remember that this article is from the hopelessly biased 'Nation'. The problem is that the EC wont let the government borrow the money it needs to pay the farmers.

However much has been syphoned off in corrupt payments, the scheme has let to financial stability for farmers (until now) and the Isaan economy is booming. Once the government is returned to power taxing the rich more and collecting taxes that are due (tax evasion here is worse than Greece) should seal the hole in the coffers.

The corruption is lamentable, but this scheme has resulted in a major redistribution of wealth. For too long the Isaan and Lanna have been the rice baskets for Bangkok and its source of cheap exploitable labour. This is changing and Sutheps patrons dont like it.

Issan booming has nothing to do with this scheme.

How many rai of rice farmland do you think the average Issan family has?

I would say not more than 15 judging from my subdistrict and village.

That's per family so we are talking about 4 or 5 people.

How much rice of those 15 rai will they sell after their own consumption?

Maybe 5.

Assuming they get the 15,000 baht,(unlikely at the mill, more likely 12,000 or 13,000 baht max) they will benefit from the scheme (assuming market price of 8,000 baht) to the tune of 35,000 baht per year per family absolute maximum, and assuming 15 rai.

Remember Issan only has one crop per year.

The people who really benefit from the rice scheme are not the poor but those farmers with 50, 100, 200 rai and especially those from the central plains who can grow rice all year round, 3 crops.

Many say the real aim of this scheme was to win those constituencies in central Thailand that Pheua Thai didn't possess, 'the helping the poor farmer' was just a convenient tag to sound caring.

I have agreed that the corruption is lamentable and I'm quite sure that winning seats in the central plains figured in PT's thinking - the same as it would anywhere in the world - government spending in 'marginal constituencies' is often higher than elsewhere.

However, even using your own homespun economics, if each farmer earned the extra 35,000 you suggest, how many of those small farmers are there in the Isaan? 1m, 2m? that in itself means another 35 - 70 bn baht going into the Isaan economy that wasn't there before. Now maybe you can begin to see how important this scheme is in redistributing wealth.

Good points, but if you factor in inflation which has varied month on month between 3.8% to 1.4% between 2012-2013 and the interest the banks have put on the debts (7%) of the farmers due to late payment by the government. Then in real terms their isn't actually that much money going back into the economy. Certainly not enough in terms of improving the material well being of farmers to any significant level.

[gerry123]

cancel the rice pledge then cancel the subsidy on diesel to pay what's owing. problem solved. the rots that follow will be interesting

According to reports the scheme HAS been canceled for the new crop year!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

please PROOF/LINKS to this statement

[LarryBird]

The "bottom rung in Thai society." Raise the real estate tax dramatically, pledge it back to the bottom rung to pay them for their hard earned money. Start charging for parking in Bangkok, raise property tax - The situation in Thailand with no property tax is untenable and it's a great way to pay down the debt to the farmers.

ah I see make the wealth creators in Bangkok pay for the mass corruption and incompetence.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

To me it's an alternative way to pay tax that makes for a more equitable society. You might not be aware of it, but a lot of tax payments here are 'negotiated'. This corruption is rampant and a huge problem.

[JRSoul]

cancel the rice pledge then cancel the subsidy on diesel to pay what's owing. problem solved. the rots that follow will be interesting

According to reports the scheme HAS been canceled for the new crop year!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

please PROOF/LINKS to this statement

I recall reading that the rice scam has only been approved until Feb 14. No, I am not going looking for it. Even were that wrong, who in their right mind would accept a PTP promise of payment under the current circumstances?

[dcutman]

That this government can't even pay the farmers for their rice makes the government's leader over in Dubai's claim that his govt sent money overseas to him to the tune of 30,000,000,000 in october last year even more sickening. Although if the farmers really do love him as much as his fans on this forum have us believe, maybe they are happy for him that his wealth has skyrocketed by 450% in the last year thanks to him trousering their rice money. No doubt a huge consolation to them. A less kind person could consider it as fools getting exactly what they deserve

Is there any foundation to your claims about Thaksin recieving 30 Billion Baht last year? Just wondering where you read that.

Glad you asked.

He boasted to the reporters at Forbes magazine. quote from article "Forbes conservatively estimated his family’s holdings at $600 million this summer, but he told us he’s had $1 billion of the funds seized by a succeeding government returned to him."

from http://www.forbes.com/sites/timferguson/2012/10/29/thaksin-in-exile-advising-sister-digging-for-gold/

Was this not about the same time of the big bt 114 billion G to G (brokered by Siam Indiga) deal that never really happened and Yingluck is now being PROBED by the NACC?

[coma]

" Kittiratt has resorted to every means to come up the money to pay to the farmers."

Has he given his old mate Thaksin a call to foot the bill. He has to be good for it. lol !

[comeondoit]

something i do not understand, actually the worldmarket price is about 14500BTH per ton. why cannot they sell rice and get the money back to the farmers?

well it is obvious bureaucrats are no rice dealers,,,and the rice dealers want their share, which will be anywhere between 20% and 30%, the storage/transportation costs another 1-3% and the rice millers will take their share too and from the milled ton aroudn 800kg will be left for sale and there will be a quality price reduction because the rice is old , i figure as a simple minded person, if the governement is selling rice they might get a net price of maybe 50% of the worldmarket price for every pledged ton.....so every ton they pledge will be subsidised with around 7 to 8000 BHT tax payers money...............imagine how much of sustainable good they could have done for hospitals and schools and even when paying direct to the farmers 3000BHT per ton subsidy even then!!!!......."my Buddha"

[dude123]

That this government can't even pay the farmers for their rice makes the government's leader over in Dubai's claim that his govt sent money overseas to him to the tune of 30,000,000,000 in october last year even more sickening. Although if the farmers really do love him as much as his fans on this forum have us believe, maybe they are happy for him that his wealth has skyrocketed by 450% in the last year thanks to him trousering their rice money. No doubt a huge consolation to them. A less kind person could consider it as fools getting exactly what they deserve

Is there any foundation to your claims about Thaksin recieving 30 Billion Baht last year? Just wondering where you read that.

Glad you asked.

He boasted to the reporters at Forbes magazine. quote from article "Forbes conservatively estimated his family’s holdings at $600 million this summer, but he told us he’s had $1 billion of the funds seized by a succeeding government returned to him."

from http://www.forbes.com/sites/timferguson/2012/10/29/thaksin-in-exile-advising-sister-digging-for-gold/

That's interesing thanks. So he is far from wanting obviously.

[Jack Mountain]

The rice pledging scams, credit cards for farmers, Etc Etc, is

all vote buying with the tax payers money.

Populist policies can never be good for the country,thats why

you never really see it practiced in civilized countries,promise

people the Earth and you will always get the most votes,but

what happens afterwards cannot be sustained,its short sighted

and no good for the country.

regards Worgeordie

Do you remember the milk- and wine lakes and the butter mountains in Europe? Same shit, different day ...

[JohnP1752]

Page 3: The Dummy's Guide to Protest Reporting

By BK staff | Jan 30, 2014

Share this article

Hi and welcome to our social media seminar on how to write news about the protests.

Rule #1. Don’t actually go to the protests. Any new media company knows that only idiots hire actual reporters. So just wait for Thai Rath or The Nation or some other old-school newspaper to send reporters and then you can copy their stories.

Rule #2. Pick a side, produce poorly researched one-sided garbage, and then ask for donations. The more biased and borderline crazy you are, the more money you’ll make.

Rule #3. Don’t show pictures of ugly people. The web is visual. Use Instagram to research only the hottest, best dressed protesters. Nobody wants to see some toothless rubber farmer as the poster child of their movement.

Rule #4. Write catchy headlines that just kind of trail off. Example: “We thought this was a camping site. But looking closer, we can’t even.”

Rule #5. Keep people updated every other second. Did a firecracker go off? Did someone say they thought they heard something? People have a right to know! Start spreading the news that civil war has broken out. You can always publish an update later.

Rule #6. No story is too small. Did a homeless farang accidentally wander into a protest site? Is there some great street food on site? Do whistles now come in the shape of Thailand or do they contain real nail clippings from Suthep? Report on it! It’ll matter to someone.

Rule #7. Do op-eds calling for calm and unity and some miraculous third party that will never come. Explain Thailand’s history for the umpteenth time like it was some great triumph of journalism to have counted how many coups we’ve had. Conclude with some vague, heartwarming hope for a better future.

Follow these top tips and we promise your web traffic will double OVERNIGHT. Then again, why would you even want to be in the new media biz when you could make B100,000 a day just selling red-white-and-blue headbands?

[trogers]

something i do not understand, actually the worldmarket price is about 14500BTH per ton. why cannot they sell rice and get the money back to the farmers?

well it is obvious bureaucrats are no rice dealers,,,and the rice dealers want their share, which will be anywhere between 20% and 30%, the storage/transportation costs another 1-3% and the rice millers will take their share too and from the milled ton aroudn 800kg will be left for sale and there will be a quality price reduction because the rice is old , i figure as a simple minded person, if the governement is selling rice they might get a net price of maybe 50% of the worldmarket price for every pledged ton.....so every ton they pledge will be subsidised with around 7 to 8000 BHT tax payers money...............imagine how much of sustainable good they could have done for hospitals and schools and even when paying direct to the farmers 3000BHT per ton subsidy even then!!!!......."my Buddha"

Prices farmers get in this rice scam is for unmilled rice. International trade deals only with milled rice.

One tonne of unmilled rice gets about half a tonne to 600kg of milled rice.

Edited January 31, 2014 by trogers

[exalll]

The rice pledging scams, credit cards for farmers, Etc Etc, is

all vote buying with the tax payers money.

Populist policies can never be good for the country,thats why

you never really see it practiced in civilized countries,promise

people the Earth and you will always get the most votes,but

what happens afterwards cannot be sustained,its short sighted

and no good for the country.

regards Worgeordie

Do you remember the milk- and wine lakes and the butter mountains in Europe? Same shit, different day ...

Gosh, you mean all those European governments failed to pay their farmers the promised prices? And yet no farmers in Europe protested, in fact they all rather seemed to like the plan. It's amazing - I never realized it was the "same shit, different day". But it's not the same, is it, because unlike European farmers, Thai farmers seem to object to being promised money and then not receiving it.

[exalll]

Remember that this article is from the hopelessly biased 'Nation'. The problem is that the EC wont let the government borrow the money it needs to pay the farmers.

However much has been syphoned off in corrupt payments, the scheme has let to financial stability for farmers (until now) and the Isaan economy is booming. Once the government is returned to power taxing the rich more and collecting taxes that are due (tax evasion here is worse than Greece) should seal the hole in the coffers.

The corruption is lamentable, but this scheme has resulted in a major redistribution of wealth. For too long the Isaan and Lanna have been the rice baskets for Bangkok and its source of cheap exploitable labour. This is changing and Sutheps patrons dont like it.

I'm getting a bit tired of hearing this "Suthep's patrons don't like it". Whenever an accusation is made against the red shirts there is a flurry of messages saying "prove it", "where's the evidence?"

So ... where's the evidence? Name Suthep's patrons and produce the evidence that they are fundamentally opposed to social and economic development.

And don't bother with the predictable "if you don't know that, you don't know anything" type of response.

[ggold]

Remember that this article is from the hopelessly biased 'Nation'. The problem is that the EC wont let the government borrow the money it needs to pay the farmers.

However much has been syphoned off in corrupt payments, the scheme has let to financial stability for farmers (until now) and the Isaan economy is booming. Once the government is returned to power taxing the rich more and collecting taxes that are due (tax evasion here is worse than Greece) should seal the hole in the coffers.

The corruption is lamentable, but this scheme has resulted in a major redistribution of wealth. For too long the Isaan and Lanna have been the rice baskets for Bangkok and its source of cheap exploitable labour. This is changing and Sutheps patrons dont like it.

This sounds like the economic model hatched in the mind of Robert Mugabe.

the scheme has let to financial stability for farmers (until now) and the Isaan economy is booming

That's why farmers are selling tractors and borrowing money from loan sharks, because the are financially stable!

The corruption is lamentable, but this scheme has resulted in a major redistribution of wealth

Your absolutely right! the money has gone into the pockets of others rather than the rice farmers!

You really don't know what you are talking about.

[soalbundy]

The rice pledging scams, credit cards for farmers, Etc Etc, is

all vote buying with the tax payers money.

Populist policies can never be good for the country,thats why

you never really see it practiced in civilized countries,promise

people the Earth and you will always get the most votes,but

what happens afterwards cannot be sustained,its short sighted

and no good for the country.

regards Worgeordie

So you have never heard that the biggest slice of the EU budget goes as subsidies to the Farmers ?

Butter mountains,beef mountains,wine lakes.....ring a bell

Never heard that in many parts of Europe huge industrial sites are stamped out of the ground at huge cost and then given out to industries at minimal rents,low electricity costs and zero corporate taxes for 5 years.

We are so corruption free and clever,the Thais should copy us and really screw up !!!

[trogers]

Deleted for double post

Edited January 31, 2014 by trogers

[ggold]

The rice pledging scams, credit cards for farmers, Etc Etc, is

all vote buying with the tax payers money.

Populist policies can never be good for the country,thats why

you never really see it practiced in civilized countries,promise

people the Earth and you will always get the most votes,but

what happens afterwards cannot be sustained,its short sighted

and no good for the country.

regards Worgeordie

Do you remember the milk- and wine lakes and the butter mountains in Europe? Same shit, different day ...

Do you remember the milk- and wine lakes and the butter mountains in Europe? Same shit, different day ...

good joke really funny, if it is meant to be serious then you failed miserably.

[Jack Mountain]

The rice pledging scams, credit cards for farmers, Etc Etc, is

all vote buying with the tax payers money.

Populist policies can never be good for the country,thats why

you never really see it practiced in civilized countries,promise

people the Earth and you will always get the most votes,but

what happens afterwards cannot be sustained,its short sighted

and no good for the country.

regards Worgeordie

Do you remember the milk- and wine lakes and the butter mountains in Europe? Same shit, different day ...

Gosh, you mean all those European governments failed to pay their farmers the promised prices? And yet no farmers in Europe protested, in fact they all rather seemed to like the plan. It's amazing - I never realized it was the "same shit, different day". But it's not the same, is it, because unlike European farmers, Thai farmers seem to object to being promised money and then not receiving it.

"Populist policies can never be good for the country,thats why

you never really see it practiced in civilized countries,promise

people the Earth and you will always get the most votes,but

what happens afterwards cannot be sustained,its short sighted

and no good for the country"

This was the reason for the comment ....