Thai northeast vows poll payback to Shinawatra clan

[ShannonT]

Who shot Kwanchai? Another red gang?

by this point it seems probable that it was internal red politics - or a business dispute. If it were the protestors then everyone would know about it and the UDD and others would be on the air all the time making sure everyone knows. It's also possible that they don't know and the perpetrators got away clean.

It makes sense then that the PDRC protest leader also got shot by his own protesters.

Or is every killing automatically blamed on red shirts now? Red kills red, red kills yellow. Yellow never kills anybody?

[ShannonT]

Wasn't the 30 Baht Healtrhcare program initiated by the Democrats?

No, the original 30 baht scheme was another wonder of Thaksin. That likely would have bankrupted the health system.

The Democrats actually made it free - but the Red Shirts in 2010 were actually saying they wanted the 30 baht scheme because they didn't want to be seen as poor.

The 30 Baht health care scheme would have bankrupted the health system, but the Democrats making it free afterwards didn't bankrupt it?

If it didn't go bankrupt free, why would it go bankrupt with 30 Baht?

What kind of logic is that?

[Mosha]

Who shot Kwanchai? Another red gang?

by this point it seems probable that it was internal red politics - or a business dispute. If it were the protestors then everyone would know about it and the UDD and others would be on the air all the time making sure everyone knows. It's also possible that they don't know and the perpetrators got away clean.

It makes sense then that the PDRC protest leader also got shot by his own protesters.

Or is every killing automatically blamed on red shirts now? Red kills red, red kills yellow. Yellow never kills anybody?

We need a face palm and a troll smiley, just saying.

[MAJIC]

Wasn't the 30 Baht Healtrhcare program initiated by the Democrats?

And the 30 baht card was also upgraded to "free by" the last Democratic Government under Ahbisit!

[BlueNoseCodger]

Wasn't the 30 Baht Healtrhcare program initiated by the Democrats?

No, the original 30 baht scheme was another wonder of Thaksin. That likely would have bankrupted the health system.

The Democrats actually made it free - but the Red Shirts in 2010 were actually saying they wanted the 30 baht scheme because they didn't want to be seen as poor.

The 30 Baht health care scheme would have bankrupted the health system, but the Democrats making it free afterwards didn't bankrupt it?

If it didn't go bankrupt free, why would it go bankrupt with 30 Baht?

What kind of logic is that?

The missing part of this is that the 30 baht it isn't 30 baht. The government pays 1800 per person in the catchment area of the hospital. It's 65% of hospital revenue! Despite being in place now for 10, 11? years hospitals are still in business.

When they kicked out Thaksin arguing that his 30 baht scheme was bankrupting hospitals, they neglected to mention this other cash the government pays. So much for Thailand newspapers.

[tilac2]

Wasn't the 30 Baht Healtrhcare program initiated by the Democrats?

No, the original 30 baht scheme was another wonder of Thaksin. That likely would have bankrupted the health system.

The Democrats actually made it free - but the Red Shirts in 2010 were actually saying they wanted the 30 baht scheme because they didn't want to be seen as poor.

The 30 Baht health care scheme would have bankrupted the health system, but the Democrats making it free afterwards didn't bankrupt it?

If it didn't go bankrupt free, why would it go bankrupt with 30 Baht?

What kind of logic is that?

I think it wouldn't make much difference to the national coffers either way, but having it free apparently saved on admin costs. It's to the credit of the Abhisit government that they continued the programme, and perhaps indicates that competition between 2 political parties for votes can help the whole country.

The scheme has been widely praised, most recently only the other day:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Universal-healthcare-Aids-fight-a-triumph-for-Thai-30225592.html

It is seen as a shining example of health care for middle income countries. However, the World Bank cautions that cost factors are a concern as the Thai population ages:

http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2012/08/20/thailand-sustaining-health-protection-for-all

[Mackie]

Is it just my impressions or can we predict the content of posts here by looking at the number of previous posts?

Is the poster has less than 300 posts, more than likely, it will be pro PT/Thaksin/Red Shirt.

If 1,000 and more post, it will be critical of PT and Thaksin

I suspect we have a lot of new posters who get paid to spread a pro-PT and pro-Thaksin view.

It's also interesting to see WHEN the newbies post. When most of us in Thailand are up and maybe looking at the news online and making a comment or two, the newbies appear to be just going off work. Wherever that may be.

.

I also noticed that many of the yellow shirt apologists have more than 10,000 posts. I concluded from this that they are internet obsessives who sit hunched over a keyboard all day with no knowledge of the world outside the curtains. I also noticed that some of the new anti democracy posters who have mysteriously appeared within the last two weeks claim to be Thai nationals, but are obviously not.

It works both ways. Some people here post under farangs names but are actually Thais. Also the yellow shirt apologists is cliché. The vast majority of people who support this attempt to save Thailand and Thai economy from complete destruction support the monarchy. Many even do not like Suthep.

[Mosha]

Wasn't the 30 Baht Healtrhcare program initiated by the Democrats?

No, the original 30 baht scheme was another wonder of Thaksin. That likely would have bankrupted the health system.

The Democrats actually made it free - but the Red Shirts in 2010 were actually saying they wanted the 30 baht scheme because they didn't want to be seen as poor.

The 30 Baht health care scheme would have bankrupted the health system, but the Democrats making it free afterwards didn't bankrupt it?

If it didn't go bankrupt free, why would it go bankrupt with 30 Baht?

What kind of logic is that?

<deleted> administration charges to collect the 30 Baht cost 80 Baht. No charge no Admin team to pay. Savvy Troll?

[Spalpeen]

Is it just my impressions or can we predict the content of posts here by looking at the number of previous posts?

Is the poster has less than 300 posts, more than likely, it will be pro PT/Thaksin/Red Shirt.

If 1,000 and more post, it will be critical of PT and Thaksin

I suspect we have a lot of new posters who get paid to spread a pro-PT and pro-Thaksin view.

It's also interesting to see WHEN the newbies post. When most of us in Thailand are up and maybe looking at the news online and making a comment or two, the newbies appear to be just going off work. Wherever that may be.

.

I also noticed that many of the yellow shirt apologists have more than 10,000 posts. I concluded from this that they are internet obsessives who sit hunched over a keyboard all day with no knowledge of the world outside the curtains. I also noticed that some of the new anti democracy posters who have mysteriously appeared within the last two weeks claim to be Thai nationals, but are obviously not.

It works both ways. Some people here post under farangs names but are actually Thais. Also the yellow shirt apologists is cliché. The vast majority of people who support this attempt to save Thailand and Thai economy from complete destruction support the monarchy. Many even do not like Suthep.

.

Regrettably, that's an avenue of discussion we're not allowed to go down.

I doubt if there are many, if any, Thais here posing as Farangs. Even foreign educated academics and politicians seem to have only a limited command of English. A newspaper editorial here once included the immortal line ".....but in a country where the bargirls speak better English than most cabinet members.....".

[noitom]

Bangkok Thais say that Thaksin's microeconomics that helped them expand their businesses has "poisoned" the kingdom. Helping the poor has poisoned the kingdom. Incredible.

[djjamie]

Is it just my impressions or can we predict the content of posts here by looking at the number of previous posts?

Is the poster has less than 300 posts, more than likely, it will be pro PT/Thaksin/Red Shirt.

If 1,000 and more post, it will be critical of PT and Thaksin

I suspect we have a lot of new posters who get paid to spread a pro-PT and pro-Thaksin view.

It's also interesting to see WHEN the newbies post. When most of us in Thailand are up and maybe looking at the news online and making a comment or two, the newbies appear to be just going off work. Wherever that may be.

.

I also noticed that many of the yellow shirt apologists have more than 10,000 posts. I concluded from this that they are internet obsessives who sit hunched over a keyboard all day with no knowledge of the world outside the curtains. I also noticed that some of the new anti democracy posters who have mysteriously appeared within the last two weeks claim to be Thai nationals, but are obviously not.

I also noticed that some of the new anti democracy posters who have mysteriously appeared within the last two weeks claim to be Thai nationals, but are obviously not.

Please clarify this? When you say anti democratic do you mean the ones that adhere to rigged elections and then don't adhere to any other principles of democracy or do you mean the ones that respect unrigged elections as a gateway to all the principles of democracy.

PS - Telling people in Phuket we will give you what you want when you vote for us is NOT a principle of democracy!

Looking forward to your answer.

[NanLaew]

Wasn't the 30 Baht Healthcare program initiated by the Democrats?

No. That was Blair's 'New Labour'.

Please try and keep up.

[Spalpeen]

I also noticed that some of the new anti democracy posters who have mysteriously appeared within the last two weeks claim to be Thai nationals, but are obviously not.

Please clarify this? When you say anti democratic do you mean the ones that adhere to rigged elections and then don't adhere to any other principles of democracy or do you mean the ones that respect unrigged elections as a gateway to all the principles of democracy.

PS - Telling people in Phuket we will give you what you want when you vote for us is NOT a principle of democracy!

Looking forward to your answer.

.

Couldn't really make head or tail of your question. Could you state that again with a bit more clarity?

From your use of English I'm guessing that you are one of the genuine Thais on here.

[DeepInTheForest]

 

Brainwashed into believing that any positive development in their area is a result of Thaksin and PTP.

Or perhaps they had been lied to by other political parties for decades and got no investment in their areas but then Thaksin came along, said he would do something, and did it. No brain washing required, they just look around them and see what a difference Thaksin governments have made to their lives.

There have been many politicians and leaders from Issan who have no political ties to Thaksin or PTP and who have done a lot for the region. They just don't go around beating their chests and lying about it in order to gain some advantage .... or a few more billion.

 

All this makes me wonder how things would be had the Democrats paid attention to the disenfranchised multitudes of the country, and had actually improved their lot. There was an opportunity there which they were not willing to take or not able to see. Is it too late for this? (It seems like it probably is, for several compelling reasons, not least of which is the inability or unwillingness of the Dem party leadership to appeal to broader groups and classes of people.) Or will another party come along to deliver progress?

Well, a lot of it is history now.

I don't think the Shinawatras will retain their hold on the populace forever-- no political dynasty or entity does. It's worth wondering, though, how history could have been different. And how people align themselves with leaders who often are not really representing their interests, and how difficult it is for many of us-- on all sides of the political spectrum-- to let go of this sort of allegiance.

[Old Man River]

Bangkok Thais say that Thaksin's microeconomics that helped them expand their businesses has "poisoned" the kingdom. Helping the poor has poisoned the kingdom. Incredible.

That makes no sense. Perhaps you can explain which policies. If the word rice is mentioned anyplace stop there, do not pass go, do not collect USD 200.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Roadman]

This kind of political organization whereby you organize your political base in an "us against them" strategy ..... creating anger and hate ... is a well worn strategy and one that Robert Amsterdam and other "consultants" for 3rd world elections is well known for.

Google 'Saul Alinsky' for some background. He invented this method of political organization ...... which Amsterdam and Thaksin have found so effective in Thailand.

Yes it won Thaksin the election and has made him a hero in the eyes of many of those brainwashed by his network of organizers.

It has also created this current division in Thailand which is killing people and causing so much heartache ... and basically ruining the future.

The political power base is founded on hatred and anger. JUst look at the Red Shirt movement. And use your brain.

Yes indeed Thaksin deserves all the credit for introducing this to ISSAN and for introducing this anger and hatred methodology to the political system in Thailand.

The long standing powers that be in Bangkok have rejected the expressed wishes and desires of the rural poor to be included in the country's economic development, looking down on them after having used and abused them for centuries into the present century.

Thailand has much natural wealth yet the wealthy and powerful insist on keeping it for themselves. The consequence is a large scale social movement by the colonized countryside population to be included rather than excluded, to be treated as fellow countrymen rather than as a colonized people.

The Bangkok elites have stopped throwing crumbs at the rural underclass and instead are throwing at them the army, the courts, the media and everything at their disposal to keep them locked out of the economy, society, political system and government. Now they've thrown the fascist Suthep and his storm troopers at them.

Your post exemplifies the dichotomization of the country along these lines while refusing to accept responsibility for the divide that it creates and magnifies, so I confront it and take you to task about it. The Bangkok elites could have peace, order, stability if they were willing, which they absolutely are not.

So they are going to have to stew in their own juices for as long as it takes one way or another.

And that is different from the Chang Mai Elites in what way?

Thailand does have much wealth and the powerful including the latest being the Shinawatra's are also insisting on keeping it for themselves. Your whole point of debate could have Shinawatra and police and lackeys inserted instead of the Bangkok elite and your whole post still holds true. And if you had not noticed the divide is from both sides not the domain of one.

[citizen33]

Wasn't the 30 Baht Healtrhcare program initiated by the Democrats?

No, the original 30 baht scheme was another wonder of Thaksin. That likely would have bankrupted the health system.

The Democrats actually made it free - but the Red Shirts in 2010 were actually saying they wanted the 30 baht scheme because they didn't want to be seen as poor.

Sometimes I despair of the ability of the TVF yellows to get anything right. Their ignorance of the history of the health care system (based on verifiable facts) should give us a good idea of what to make of their political analysis. The Democrats (as I pointed out in an earlier post) did not design or introduce the 30 baht scheme, and in fact the co-payment was abolished by the post-coup civilian government under Mongkol Na Songkla, not the Democrat Party. Of course, some do argue that the coup makers, PAD, the yellows, PDRC and the Democrats are pretty much the same group. Is that what you really meant?

Edited January 31, 2014 by citizen33

[kikoman]

This kind of political organization whereby you organize your political base in an "us against them" strategy ..... creating anger and hate ... is a well worn strategy and one that Robert Amsterdam and other "consultants" for 3rd world elections is well known for.

Google 'Saul Alinsky' for some background. He invented this method of political organization ...... which Amsterdam and Thaksin have found so effective in Thailand.

Yes it won Thaksin the election and has made him a hero in the eyes of many of those brainwashed by his network of organizers.

It has also created this current division in Thailand which is killing people and causing so much heartache ... and basically ruining the future.

The political power base is founded on hatred and anger. JUst look at the Red Shirt movement. And use your brain.

Yes indeed Thaksin deserves all the credit for introducing this to ISSAN and for introducing this anger and hatred methodology to the political system in Thailand.

All I see is a bunch of yellow posters, that realize they lost big time! The Dear Leaders fascist tactics did not stop the election, Yingluck stood firm for 3 long months of constant pressure and when the dust settled she was still standing! You all really believed she would resign from office, well you all know now, she did not.

Funny you mentioned Saul Alinsky' tactic and books, I liked "Rules for Radical" his last book before his death which I studied in my community organizer days in the Chicano Movement in the 1960s- 1970s.

I know the words of hate, towards the people of Thailand by the Suthep Farang supporters on TV really caused the young in the family to become very pro-active and informing the villagers of what was being said about them, just as the lady in the article referred to!

The village was a-washed with the national election campaign trucks and their loudspeakers, the Bangkok in laws and other family coming home to vote on Sunday.

Cheers

Edited January 31, 2014 by kikoman

[Publicus]

This kind of political organization whereby you organize your political base in an "us against them" strategy ..... creating anger and hate ... is a well worn strategy and one that Robert Amsterdam and other "consultants" for 3rd world elections is well known for.

Google 'Saul Alinsky' for some background. He invented this method of political organization ...... which Amsterdam and Thaksin have found so effective in Thailand.

Yes it won Thaksin the election and has made him a hero in the eyes of many of those brainwashed by his network of organizers.

It has also created this current division in Thailand which is killing people and causing so much heartache ... and basically ruining the future.

The political power base is founded on hatred and anger. JUst look at the Red Shirt movement. And use your brain.

Yes indeed Thaksin deserves all the credit for introducing this to ISSAN and for introducing this anger and hatred methodology to the political system in Thailand.

The long standing powers that be in Bangkok have rejected the expressed wishes and desires of the rural poor to be included in the country's economic development, looking down on them after having used and abused them for centuries into the present century.

Thailand has much natural wealth yet the wealthy and powerful insist on keeping it for themselves. The consequence is a large scale social movement by the colonized countryside population to be included rather than excluded, to be treated as fellow countrymen rather than as a colonized people.

The Bangkok elites have stopped throwing crumbs at the rural underclass and instead are throwing at them the army, the courts, the media and everything at their disposal to keep them locked out of the economy, society, political system and government. Now they've thrown the fascist Suthep and his storm troopers at them.

Your post exemplifies the dichotomization of the country along these lines while refusing to accept responsibility for the divide that it creates and magnifies, so I confront it and take you to task about it. The Bangkok elites could have peace, order, stability if they were willing, which they absolutely are not.

So they are going to have to stew in their own juices for as long as it takes one way or another.

And that is different from the Chang Mai Elites in what way?

Thailand does have much wealth and the powerful including the latest being the Shinawatra's are also insisting on keeping it for themselves. Your whole point of debate could have Shinawatra and police and lackeys inserted instead of the Bangkok elite and your whole post still holds true. And if you had not noticed the divide is from both sides not the domain of one.

Three or four dozen threads on this crisis of fascism versus democracy in Thailand have more or less hashed over the fact this is essentially a battle of the old guard elites of Bangkok and the newer, more recent elites who are engaged in a pitched conflict over a certain succession in question, a pressing and intense question. That's fundamentally two basic groups of elites.

Anyone who doesn't know this is brain dead.

I criticize the old guard feudal elites. I don't bother much, or most of the time at all, focusing on the newer more recent junior comers to the elites.

Neither do I discuss the lineup of one basic group of elites against the other group and why each is at the throat of the other because I'm not at TFV for academic purposes, nor am I spending considerable time here to engage in presenting posts on the comparative politics of Thailand - I left a comparative politics course behind at university decades ago (not that included Thailand politics).

Prominent elites in one group are the DP, some Chicken and Pork people, BB, BP among many others on that side of it. The Godfather of the opposing elites is of course, Mr Thailand Himself, the inimitable, the one, the only, Thaksin Shinawatra (drum roll).

If you think I don't know there are basically two groups of elites you would be astoundingly ____________ (fill in the blank space with the word stupid).

Consequently, your post is facile, superficial, presumptuous, silly and a classic waste of another's time - mine. You too could make better use of your own time because you are not ___________ 98.7% of the time.

[Trouble]

This kind of political organization whereby you organize your political base in an "us against them" strategy ..... creating anger and hate ... is a well worn strategy and one that Robert Amsterdam and other "consultants" for 3rd world elections is well known for.

Google 'Saul Alinsky' for some background. He invented this method of political organization ...... which Amsterdam and Thaksin have found so effective in Thailand.

Yes it won Thaksin the election and has made him a hero in the eyes of many of those brainwashed by his network of organizers.

It has also created this current division in Thailand which is killing people and causing so much heartache ... and basically ruining the future.

The political power base is founded on hatred and anger. JUst look at the Red Shirt movement. And use your brain.

Yes indeed Thaksin deserves all the credit for introducing this to ISSAN and for introducing this anger and hatred methodology to the political system in Thailand.

Is this so different from Obama's methods in the US? The 90% against the 10% or his 2014 theme of wealth inequality? More welfare, longer unemployment benefits, Obamacare. Seems to me it is also the basis for politics in Greece, Spain, Italy and a host of other Western countries as well.

[Trembly]

Wonder how many rice farmers are in agreement?

Given the very poor turnout to the PDRC's marches across the north and east, not many farmers believe it is the government that is the problem here (a couple of photos from the last farmer stories I can find on Thai visa). I think the article is pure wishful thinking.

They know what the problem is, PDRC might think they're stupid, but they watch TV. So when this PDRC guy below starts spouting that 300000 voices in Bangkok are worth 15 million votes in the provinces, they know how much these PDRC yobs value them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xtcvkWAMWo

That Dr. Seri is a prize knut.

Foot, meet shotgun.

[LarryBird]

I challenge anyone to wager against my viewpoint.

[Trembly]

This kind of political organization whereby you organize your political base in an "us against them" strategy ..... creating anger and hate ... is a well worn strategy and one that Robert Amsterdam and other "consultants" for 3rd world elections is well known for.

Google 'Saul Alinsky' for some background. He invented this method of political organization ...... which Amsterdam and Thaksin have found so effective in Thailand.

Yes it won Thaksin the election and has made him a hero in the eyes of many of those brainwashed by his network of organizers.

It has also created this current division in Thailand which is killing people and causing so much heartache ... and basically ruining the future.

The political power base is founded on hatred and anger. JUst look at the Red Shirt movement. And use your brain.

Yes indeed Thaksin deserves all the credit for introducing this to ISSAN and for introducing this anger and hatred methodology to the political system in Thailand.

Is this so different from Obama's methods in the US? The 90% against the 10% or his 2014 theme of wealth inequality? More welfare, longer unemployment benefits, Obamacare. Seems to me it is also the basis for politics in Greece, Spain, Italy and a host of other Western countries as well.

Yes, these techniques are used in many other countries too but that doesn't make it right, and it doesn't invalidate the people who have enough sense to be conscious of it and not be taken in by it.

The basis for these techniques is the work done by Edward Bernays, for which I highly recommend this documentary : http://vimeo.com/67977038

[SiThai65]

It seems that most of us expats living in Thailand see a very different view/picture of Shinawatra than the people who live in Udon Thani and similar places in the northeast and the north.

I doubt that there is not much of a chance them seeing it differently, they believe they have done well when Mr T or M/s T have been in power and any bad news or feelings are caused by opposition to them.

With intransigent views like this and the voting power of the region its difficult to see how any other Government could get elected, its as good as a one party system, you may call it a democratic dictatorship or similar and you can understand the PDRC are not happy either with current situation, but, with such strongly held beliefs how can any sort of compromise be reached?

A general election on the 2nd of February will be a disaster and is like going through the democratic motions because people will not accept that there is a big problem here for the country even if the Shinawatra's walked away from the scene, which is rather unlikely as they seem to have a craving for power that is insaitable.

With the problem likely to escalate I wonder if the Army will have to seperate the sides or, worse still will the country be partioned? Neither of which I would want to see but the on going situation looks to be heading down that road.

Blimey you must have been busy, going round and asking the views of all the expats in Thailand !

[Publicus]

Wonder how many rice farmers are in agreement?

Given the very poor turnout to the PDRC's marches across the north and east, not many farmers believe it is the government that is the problem here (a couple of photos from the last farmer stories I can find on Thai visa). I think the article is pure wishful thinking.

They know what the problem is, PDRC might think they're stupid, but they watch TV. So when this PDRC guy below starts spouting that 300000 voices in Bangkok are worth 15 million votes in the provinces, they know how much these PDRC yobs value them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xtcvkWAMWo

What a shill.

It is pretty clear that the message from the PDRC was that 300,000 voices in Bangkok were supported by 15 million more people in the provinces ALSO GETTING SCREWED.

As for voicing ones complaint in the provinces, I know in the Chiang Rai area people are literally scared of speaking out, but I also heard whistles being blown in the village when the main stage rally was hosted.

I think everyone, if given the complete picture, would understand the Shinawatra clan / regime's inherent corruption from top to bottom. But being disinformed, exactly like how you are skewing the message, is the reason there are any followers at all of that most selfish of men.

What a shill, he says the 15 million voices have no quality, literall the word means quality or value. In English we'd phrase as "worthless'

So this man is saying 300,000 voice have value and 15 million in the provinces are worthless.

Oh and if you wonder where the 15 million comes from, its the voters for PT at the last election. Saying their votes don't count! (he wishes)

He wants to make the trains run on time yet he's not too sharp with numbers.

[BigC]

At least now I can understand I little more about this conflict

Thaksin was taking money from tax payers and building up poor areas in order to win votes

Mean while the tax payers are pissed because they pay tax they want nice roads health care also for the areas where all of tax comes from

Yet the poor people from the north need Thaksin to savive even though he only using them for his political focus

So I understand why both sides are fighting but unfortunately if any side gives into protests then this style of non democratic way of getting people in and out of power shall never stop

Mean while without Thaksin the rice in the north is not worth as much as what the government were buying it for

In other words they were buying votes

So now there are stacks of rice which is worthless

Unfortunately if the yellows win

Then the reds shall

Copy and again and again this is not going to stop unless like in any argument there is a complamize

Plus they must stick to the terms

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[Roadman]

This kind of political organization whereby you organize your political base in an "us against them" strategy ..... creating anger and hate ... is a well worn strategy and one that Robert Amsterdam and other "consultants" for 3rd world elections is well known for.

Google 'Saul Alinsky' for some background. He invented this method of political organization ...... which Amsterdam and Thaksin have found so effective in Thailand.

Yes it won Thaksin the election and has made him a hero in the eyes of many of those brainwashed by his network of organizers.

It has also created this current division in Thailand which is killing people and causing so much heartache ... and basically ruining the future.

The political power base is founded on hatred and anger. JUst look at the Red Shirt movement. And use your brain.

Yes indeed Thaksin deserves all the credit for introducing this to ISSAN and for introducing this anger and hatred methodology to the political system in Thailand.

The long standing powers that be in Bangkok have rejected the expressed wishes and desires of the rural poor to be included in the country's economic development, looking down on them after having used and abused them for centuries into the present century.

Thailand has much natural wealth yet the wealthy and powerful insist on keeping it for themselves. The consequence is a large scale social movement by the colonized countryside population to be included rather than excluded, to be treated as fellow countrymen rather than as a colonized people.

The Bangkok elites have stopped throwing crumbs at the rural underclass and instead are throwing at them the army, the courts, the media and everything at their disposal to keep them locked out of the economy, society, political system and government. Now they've thrown the fascist Suthep and his storm troopers at them.

Your post exemplifies the dichotomization of the country along these lines while refusing to accept responsibility for the divide that it creates and magnifies, so I confront it and take you to task about it. The Bangkok elites could have peace, order, stability if they were willing, which they absolutely are not.

So they are going to have to stew in their own juices for as long as it takes one way or another.

And that is different from the Chang Mai Elites in what way?

Thailand does have much wealth and the powerful including the latest being the Shinawatra's are also insisting on keeping it for themselves. Your whole point of debate could have Shinawatra and police and lackeys inserted instead of the Bangkok elite and your whole post still holds true. And if you had not noticed the divide is from both sides not the domain of one.

Three or four dozen threads on this crisis of fascism versus democracy in Thailand have more or less hashed over the fact this is essentially a battle of the old guard elites of Bangkok and the newer, more recent elites who are engaged in a pitched conflict over a certain succession in question, a pressing and intense question. That's fundamentally two basic groups of elites.

Anyone who doesn't know this is brain dead.

I criticize the old guard feudal elites. I don't bother much, or most of the time at all, focusing on the newer more recent junior comers to the elites.

Neither do I discuss the lineup of one basic group of elites against the other group and why each is at the throat of the other because I'm not at TFV for academic purposes, nor am I spending considerable time here to engage in presenting posts on the comparative politics of Thailand - I left a comparative politics course behind at university decades ago (not that included Thailand politics).

Prominent elites in one group are the DP, some Chicken and Pork people, BB, BP among many others on that side of it. The Godfather of the opposing elites is of course, Mr Thailand Himself, the inimitable, the one, the only, Thaksin Shinawatra (drum roll).

If you think I don't know there are basically two groups of elites you would be astoundingly ____________ (fill in the blank space with the word stupid).

Consequently, your post is facile, superficial, presumptuous, silly and a classic waste of another's time - mine. You too could make better use of your own time because you are not ___________ 98.7% of the time.

So what does that make your postings on here? If you are so wisely intelligent and so widely knowledgeable on Thailand's political situation as you proclaim then why are your posts so slanted and prejudice against one group only?

Although I really do not need to ask as part of your last paragraph ( "your post is facile, superficial, presumptuous, silly") explains a lot about you. And if your opinion of others is such then why are you wasting time replying to one that you consider so lowly to you when even you state it is a waste of your time?

You do realise that your sh!t stinks on a bad day just like the rest of us?

[ultimate weapon]

Brainwashed into believing that any positive development in their area is a result of Thaksin and PTP.

Or perhaps they had been lied to by other political parties for decades and got no investment in their areas but then Thaksin came along, said he would do something, and did it. No brain washing required, they just look around them and see what a difference Thaksin governments have made to their lives.

Yes that is the point. All over parties ignored them but not thaksin's and he deserves their loyalty its just like the drowning person tgat got ignored by 5 passers by but was saved by the 6th. That savior deserves Ll the credit.

[aussimike]

Brainwashed into believing that any positive development in their area is a result of Thaksin and PTP.

So you reckon that all northerners are stupid, huh? Happily they have the chanting, whistle blowing, independent thinking mob in Bangkok to look after them - once they've finished handing over their savings to a man who has some vague totalitarian concept of a non-elected council, headed by him of course, who will guide the nation. On available evidence, the north seems to be slightly more worldwise.

Finally someone who can write without refering to the script, and does not have to even believe what the other yellow dic'''''s are expounding about through their YELLOW coloured glasses, they wont even accept the word of an Issan local, you have to ask yourself what do they really know and understand about thailand and the thinking of the average thai, well for me after living here for 16 years, and having travelled all over, spoken to all levels i guess i might have some sort of insite and i can tell you for one, its the bkk elite who feared taksin, not the down to earth folk from the poorest parts of this great kingdom, i have to ask the pro-pro=yellow shirted lovers why he is feared by them, and i can tell you that the down to earth folk from the NE will be the first to invite you inside for dinner where if you can find someone down in the big smoke to help you if you had been assulted or whatever for help they will just look right through you as if you were not there, give me the true red bloods and i will show you a real thai. and you might as well accept the fate of the election as the final ballot has already been cast, the ballots counted, and the results posted.. and no good throwing a tantrum as it will not do you any good as i have just pointed out - youir in Bkk - so go hide if you need to cry.......

[aimbc]

More Red Propaganda. Most people in the 2010 that were violent were not the majority of the Red supporters. They were a faction that UDD courted to bring violence during the protest. It's so apparent that it is all they know. But I know the majority there are not for violence. A lot of people aren't. And Kwanchai's statement about a repeat of the last rally really should open the eyes of all Red Supporters. They should not want to see that ever again. Their mantra, UDD leaders make the war cries, supporter sacrifice their lives. That is what they stand for. It's is a shame.

Having mansion is not a sign of success. All these things UDD tries to instill into everyone's head that the North needs to be as hip as BKK. No, if you poll them honestly, I would venture to say that they just want to be left alone. Because honestly, like in the US, people in the rural country side do not like govt. interference. It's not difference here. Because at the end of the day, they still have to fend for themselves. And they do that quite well for hundreds of year and don't need the government's help to make their lives harder by creating inflation in their area. This are hard honest working people that these corrupt govt official are taking advantage of their kind nature. A lot of the older folks don't like confrontation and are honorable folks so when you buy votes, believe me, they will honor their word and vote. So when people write about vote buying being the thing of the pass, no it still effective here in the north, where people are honest and honorable. I hope they will have enough courage to say enough with using them as tools.