"Special Project Funds" procedures for Condominiums

[ripley]

I'm looking for information on the procedures used by condominiums to introduce, collect, process and monitor "Special Funds" for projects exceeding the normal Maintenance Fee allowances.

I would assume that the project needs to be identified and voted as necessary or desirable by the Owners. But how does it all work procedurally? In what ways can a Special Project be structured?

Who takes responsibility for:

- planning project
- prioritizing tasks
- collection and selection of bids
- tracking income and expenses
- monitoring performance
- signing off on completion

I'm sure there are various ways to do this and I'm wondering what has worked best for your building. Our bldg. has a Committee of 9, JPM, Manager and Management Co. There seems to be some confusion as to who should be expected and best relied upon to take responsibility for what.

Comments? Experiences?

[Delight]

Hello Ripley

The decision to move with a large project will of course be agreed at a general co -owner meeting

The committee will agree the big decisions i.e which external suppliers gets the orders.

Clearly the JPM must concur with theses decisions.

After that It will be the Juristic Person Manager and/or the building manager with technical support from the management company .

If the JPM is to delegate to the building manager ,then this must be agreed at the general meeting. The JPM is still responsible

The 'delegation' bit, is detailed in the condo act . I attach a JPEG

The committee ,depending on the size of the project, should have a member work with the JPM to ensure satisfactory performance. This person must have the appropriate skills and experience

That is to deal with:

- planning project
- prioritizing tasks
- tracking income and expenses
- monitoring performance
Signing off on completion is really a committee responsibility

[Langsuan Man]

Here is what is going to happen. It will be presented at the AGM where it will be defeated by the majority Thais since it will require a 75% majority vote. A second owners meeting will be called and then it will only require a simple majority (since it is not the AGM) and the Thais probably won't make it to the second meeting it will pass and life will continue on

This is what occurs every time my condo wants to raise the standard maintenance rate which has not been increased in 10 years. We have to play this game for a special assessment every year because no one wants to vote for a permanent increase in the annual fee but we have to pay for increased labor and materials

[KittenKong]

Here is what is going to happen. It will be presented at the AGM where it will be defeated by the majority Thais since it will require a 75% majority vote. A second owners meeting will be called and then it will only require a simple majority (since it is not the AGM) and the Thais probably won't make it to the second meeting it will pass and life will continue on

That's certainly what happens in my building.

Neither the main AGM or the second meeting ever seems to attract more than about 25-30% of the voting rights, even including proxies. Thai faces are particularly rare, and when they are there they always seem to be complaining about the committee wanting to raise a few thousand Baht more per room per year.

[smutcakes]

Here is what is going to happen. It will be presented at the AGM where it will be defeated by the majority Thais since it will require a 75% majority vote. A second owners meeting will be called and then it will only require a simple majority (since it is not the AGM) and the Thais probably won't make it to the second meeting it will pass and life will continue on

This is what occurs every time my condo wants to raise the standard maintenance rate which has not been increased in 10 years. We have to play this game for a special assessment every year because no one wants to vote for a permanent increase in the annual fee but we have to pay for increased labor and materials

You should have a word with whoever is running your condo as you only need 50% not 75%. If there is not sufficient quorum to vote in the first meeting, a second one should be called within 15 days whereby the agenda can be approved with 33%.

[Langsuan Man]

Here is what is going to happen. It will be presented at the AGM where it will be defeated by the majority Thais since it will require a 75% majority vote. A second owners meeting will be called and then it will only require a simple majority (since it is not the AGM) and the Thais probably won't make it to the second meeting it will pass and life will continue on

This is what occurs every time my condo wants to raise the standard maintenance rate which has not been increased in 10 years. We have to play this game for a special assessment every year because no one wants to vote for a permanent increase in the annual fee but we have to pay for increased labor and materials

You should have a word with whoever is running your condo as you only need 50% not 75%. If there is not sufficient quorum to vote in the first meeting, a second one should be called within 15 days whereby the agenda can be approved with 33%.

I stand corrected, you are right about the %'s, but the method is still the same. Higher percentage required for the AGM, a lower percentage for the "special" meeting

[KittenKong]

The rules about quora and percentages seem to vary according to whether the building was completed before or after the 2008 condo act came in (and, in my building, according to which way the wind is blowing).

Also different categories of decision seem to require higher or lower percentages at the same meeting.

[smutcakes]

Here is what is going to happen. It will be presented at the AGM where it will be defeated by the majority Thais since it will require a 75% majority vote. A second owners meeting will be called and then it will only require a simple majority (since it is not the AGM) and the Thais probably won't make it to the second meeting it will pass and life will continue on

This is what occurs every time my condo wants to raise the standard maintenance rate which has not been increased in 10 years. We have to play this game for a special assessment every year because no one wants to vote for a permanent increase in the annual fee but we have to pay for increased labor and materials

You should have a word with whoever is running your condo as you only need 50% not 75%. If there is not sufficient quorum to vote in the first meeting, a second one should be called within 15 days whereby the agenda can be approved with 33%.

I stand corrected, you are right about the %'s, but the method is still the same. Higher percentage required for the AGM, a lower percentage for the "special" meeting

The rules for AGM's and EGM's are exactly the same. In the first meeting you need a quorum of 25% to commence the meeting, and resolutions which require collecting money/special charges etc (Section 48 of the Act) require 50% of the total of all Co-owners, not just those in the meeting. If in the first meeting you cannot consider the agenda because you do not have 50% in the room, a second meeting shall be called within 15 days to reconsider that agenda. In that second meeting, there will be no quorum to commence the meeting, and to approve the agenda relating to special charges you require not less than 33% of the total Co-owners vote, not just those in the meeting.

Kittenkong,

There is no difference when the Condominium was built-other than those Condo's built prior to 2008 should have had their regulations amended after the new act came in. However in practice it does not matter as the new law takes precedence, so even if the regulations have not been amended, they automatically override the old ones. So say if someone was claiming you only got 55% vote which was contradictory to the regulations saying 75%, actually it would be approved because it would fall under the laws of the new act when governed.

All voting in AGM/EGM's are by majority of those present, other than those specified specifically in Section 48 & 49.

[ripley]

I'm sorry if my Topic Title was unclear. There is already quite a bit of discussion and info on TVF on how to get a "Special fund" passed.

My question was: Once a Special fund has been approved and passed by the Owners, what are sensible procedures for handling the project and assuring accountability for the monies? Amongst the various members of the administration, who does what? What have various condos discovered works best for them? What hasn't worked?

[smutcakes]

I'm sorry if my Topic Title was unclear. There is already quite a bit of discussion and info on TVF on how to get a "Special fund" passed.

My question was: Once a Special fund has been approved and passed by the Owners, what are sensible procedures for handling the project and assuring accountability for the monies? Amongst the various members of the administration, who does what? What have various condos discovered works best for them? What hasn't worked?

Where i have seen it done, the Committee has set up a working group, perhaps with other Co-owners who have any particular ability in the area, perhaps someone was a Construction Manager, perhaps someone was a QS or at least someone with working knowledge of construction work.

I am not sure how large your project is, but we employed a reliable QS who organized the bidding process for the works, and recommended the final contractor to be awarded the project after assessing and summarizing all the bids. We then had a PM company and underneath them the main contractor who was proposed by the QS company. All of these bidding and meetings would be attended by the working group made up of the selected Owners, the management company and the JPM (if the JPM is active rather than just a signatory)

The day to day works would be overseen by the PM company who would send all payment requests to the QS for checking, and only after that would in the weekly or biweekly meeting would the working group advise the Committee and JPM on the progress update to sign off any payments.

This was obviously for a very large project so it would differ depending on how complicated the works were etc. I was always pretty skeptical of things like QS's, but was pleasantly surprised by their work and their ability to make the PM and contractors tow the line. They knew they could not 'take the piss' and as such acted professionally.

[ripley]

I posted an answer to smutcakes yesterday, but it doesn't seem to have been printed.

It was just to thank him and Delight for their useful replies to my question. Also to ask "What is a QS?"

[cheeryble]

Hi Ripley

I would say to optimize you need some expertise BEFORE it gets to the execution phase.

In other words you need expertise ON THE COMMITTEE and if not INVITE a friendly person in who HAS expertise.

There is no bottom the possibility of paybacks or simple overpricing or overspecification, and you need someone on the AMATEUR side of this BEFORE it gets to those who might benefit financially.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[Delight]

I posted an answer to smutcakes yesterday, but it doesn't seem to have been printed.

It was just to thank him and Delight for their useful replies to my question. Also to ask "What is a QS?"

QS Quantity Surveyor

PM company -Project Management Company.

[ripley]

I posted an answer to smutcakes yesterday, but it doesn't seem to have been printed.

It was just to thank him and Delight for their useful replies to my question. Also to ask "What is a QS?"

QS Quantity Surveyor

PM company -Project Management Company.

Sorry - is that "Quality Supervisor" or "Quantity Supervisor"? Where/ how do you find one of these? I've never encountered the term before.

Also - would the "Project Management Company" be comprised of our already employed Management Company? If a condo doesn't have a Management Company, what then would a Project Management company be?

[ripley]

Hi Ripley

I would say to optimize you need some expertise BEFORE it gets to the execution phase.

In other words you need expertise ON THE COMMITTEE and if not INVITE a friendly person in who HAS expertise.

There is no bottom the possibility of paybacks or simple overpricing or overspecification, and you need someone on the AMATEUR side of this BEFORE it gets to those who might benefit financially.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Hi cheeryble,

I'd think a presentation or Q&A session w/ an amateur co-owner would be useful before getting involved w/ experts.

However, in our bldg. we tried using committee members to participate in and oversee various projects and the experience was a disaster for which we are still paying. Those peope who did participate and oversee had a helluva time as well, receiving much abuse and harassment from owners.

Life!

[smutcakes]

I posted an answer to smutcakes yesterday, but it doesn't seem to have been printed.

It was just to thank him and Delight for their useful replies to my question. Also to ask "What is a QS?"

QS Quantity Surveyor

PM company -Project Management Company.

Sorry - is that "Quality Supervisor" or "Quantity Supervisor"? Where/ how do you find one of these? I've never encountered the term before.

Also - would the "Project Management Company" be comprised of our already employed Management Company? If a condo doesn't have a Management Company, what then would a Project Management company be?

Quantity surveyors assist with the costing and contracts of construction works. They are useful in assessing the bids and to ensure you are not being ripped off. QS companies are like Davis Langdon (Do PM as well), Rider Hunt etc

Project management company would be different to your building management. Building management are trained in managing the operation of your building, not proper construction. Project management would be retained to manage the whole construction process. There are many of these companies in Thailand.