End rice-pledging project now: exporters

[GentlemanJim]

What chance to we have of being presented with any type of news that is remotely credible in this country. Cut and paste from the OP, is it just me or is there 3 conflicts of information in almost as many lines of text. Who is writing this rubbish and why don't the Nation have a literate English speaking proof reader to vet it's articles.

However, US Department of Agriculture estimated Thai rice export this year to reach 14.73 million tonnes.

Since 2011, the government has reported total sales of 12.75 million tonnes of milled rice from the stockpiles, earning up to Bt139 billion.

The association projects that Thailand will be able to export 7.5 million tonnes of rice this year, up 13.6 per cent from 6.61 million in 2013. From that amount, it would earn up to US$4.5 billion (Bt147 billion) this year, a slight increase from $4.42 billion in 2013.

Meanwhile, the US Department of Agriculture forecasts that Thailand will export 8 million tonnes of rice this year, ranking as the world's second-largest exporter after India.

[belg]

what is wrong with this economics :

millions of tons of rice in stockpiles , none sold, rice farmers not paid, and pledging even more money for more stockpiles in the future

mhhhhhh

thainess or thai econoflopics?

[GentlemanJim]

Who cares what the price of rice is to international consumers!

We are obligated to make sure our farmers at making a decent living off of growing rice or continued numbers will quit rice farming!

"Destroy the rice they must be kidding" The government should lower the rice stockpiles by distributing it to those Thai's most affected by the loss of the value of the baht, as food to its population and food for its livestock.

Implement direct government to government sales and cut out the elites "middle man" that is driving force behind the raise in the price of Thai rice.

Our family last month was paid 11,000 baht a ton for rice that the present international price is 13,000 baht per ton, "Who has driven the price increase, not the farmers".

Distribute the rice to Thailand's people cut out the middle man, government to government sales!

Peace

Your post explains pretty much what is wrong with this disastrous situation. The farmers were never at the front of the queue when it came to education, that's why they are farmers, and they rely on the more educated in society to explain what goes on in the big wide world and to take care of those things that require a more intellectual mind-set so that they can keep planting rice. The Thai 'educated and intellects', in this case the politicians (an oxymoron i know) have abused the farmers by persuading them that what is being done is in the farmers interests, when in truth it is the antithesis of that.

Now we have the situation for your family where YOU could actually help them (assuming you have a basic western education), but the fact is you do not help them, you yourself continue to make matters worse for your family by buying in to this red/Thaksin/PTP bull***t. Do you not get it yet ? .......it does not work, the maths does not work, the global economics of it all will never work the farmers are being scammed! along with the Thai taxpayer, and as long as people with even half a brain (especially farangs) keep lending credibility to this scam by displaying positive acceptance of what Thaksin is doing then the criminals bank accounts will continue to fill. YOU can help your family by climbing off the 'Thaksin is great' bandwaggon. This really is not difficult...THINK!

Just re-read your post, it would be funny if you were not being serious. You really do understand nothing about economics do you. From what you have written you do nothing but listen to red radio all day. You say 'cut out the middle men - the elites' i agree, but who are the middle men in this rice scam- they are Thaksin and his cronies! Does it not make you even slightly wonder why Arisman (just one example) and his disgusting wife have just started their own AIRLINE!!! A two bit c class actor/singer who sold his soul to Thaksin and who subsequently opened a company that was handling the majority of rice on behalf of the Government under the rice scam. They have gone from nothing to opening their own bloody airline in the space of two years!! I often think that our locally elected officials are making it a bit obvious when they buy their Mercedes a month or two after being voted in to office, but an AIRLINE for gawds sake. The farmers are being raped by their own hero's. I doubt Arisman is sat at home at night wondering how to pay the bills.

You say

Our family last month was paid 11,000 baht a ton for rice that the present international price is 13,000 baht per ton, "Who has driven the price increase, not the farmers".

Well unlucky, as has been shown neither Thaksin nor Thailand can affect global rice prices, they can only live with it (one of Thaksin's fatal errors. He thought after spending so long in Dubai talking to his oil buddies that he could control world rice prices like OPEC control oil prices). So you are outraged that your family get paid 11K when the global price is 13K. Imagine how outraged the rest of us are when your family get paid 15K when the global price is 13K or 11K !!!!! Are you getting it yet? WHO pays the difference...the tax payer! The farmers willingly signed Thaksins blank piece of paper upon which he later wrote their demise. He has you all by the balls and there is only one way out.

There are NO G2G rice sales, it is a lie, they do not exist. Other Governments are only interested in Governing, they do not get involved in buying rice or potatoes, all that is left to the private commercial sector. You see the latest G2G deal with China was not even with the Government, it was with a private Chinese company (owned by .....?), yet you and all the farmer folk believe PTP when they say G2G.

YOU can start to help your family by showing them that following a corrupt megalomaniac will always end in tears for them and bursting bank balances for the megalomaniac, just open your eyes and you will see it. There are things you can do if you produce rice and the global price is 13K, for one you don't sell it to someone that gives you 11K (why 11K anyway, the government says you get 15K !! ). There is a friend of ours who cuts/buys/smokes/sells rubber. He has been dismayed by government policy and how money is being 'stolen' from him. What did we do...we got him iso 9000 certified, got his entire business running well and now what..he is selling all the rubber sheet he can possibly make direct to Taiwan! No middle man, no agent, from tree to smokehouse to ship. He is now minted (and as the guy that set it all up, I am doing very well also), and he is about to get a massive contract to supply direct to the aviation industry for making aircraft tyres ....keerrrrching!!!! Not a middleman in site. Moral of the story..get off your fat lazy asses, stop relying on corrupt politicians to give you other peoples hard earned cash, think outside the box and your family will find there is a crock of gold at the end of the rainbow, rather than the situation at the moment..a crock of s**t !

[kikoman]

Is it possible that a proportion of this rice has suffered from poor storage conditions, (damp, mould, infestation, contamination) and is now unfit for consumption ?

Clean it up use it as animal feed

Peace

[GentlemanJim]

Is it possible that a proportion of this rice has suffered from poor storage conditions, (damp, mould, infestation, contamination) and is now unfit for consumption ?

Clean it up use it as animal feed

Peace

And you know how they clean it up? using formaline! Have a good sniff when you open your bag of cheap rice next time. So you think it is ok to do that then feed it to the animals that we then eat? I take it you know about the food chain? It seems you have been living with the rice farmers for so long, you are starting to think like one. Then again, you don't catch many rice farmers eating polished white rice from supermarkets...I wonder why.

[skippybangkok]

Oops - mods delete pls

Edited February 6, 2014 by skippybangkok

[kikoman]

Who cares what the price of rice is to international consumers!

We are obligated to make sure our farmers at making a decent living off of growing rice or continued numbers will quit rice farming!

"Destroy the rice they must be kidding" The government should lower the rice stockpiles by distributing it to those Thai's most affected by the loss of the value of the baht, as food to its population and food for its livestock.

Implement direct government to government sales and cut out the elites "middle man" that is driving force behind the raise in the price of Thai rice.

Our family last month was paid 11,000 baht a ton for rice that the present international price is 13,000 baht per ton, "Who has driven the price increase, not the farmers".

Distribute the rice to Thailand's people cut out the middle man, government to government sales!

Peace

"We are obligated to make sure our farmers at making a decent living off of growing rice or continued numbers will quit rice farming!"

What an incredibly stupid statement. Why should taxpayers ensure YOU have a decent living because you choose invest in an uneconomic industry that is overproducing during a world glut? Growing numbers will quit rice farming - great, let them do something to earn their own living instead of sucking on a corrupt government's tit.

The main reason PTP was elected was because of this unsustainable policy used to buy your family's votes. Well the policy has failed at great cost to the nation, but you want more. Explain to me why the tax I pay should go to YOUR family instead of supplying infrastructure and services for mine.

What an incredibly stupid assumption!

What is it that YOU can document YOUR assumption that I invest or farm in any industry much less a (uneconomic) one your clueless assumption is only out-done by your incredibly lack of knowledge of what is happening in the world today!

Your statement "that is overproducing during a world glut" is a classic example of how clueless that statement is! 842 million people world wide suffer from hunger today (IE: they do not have enough food to eat), 552 million of those people are in ASIA, 223 million in Africa and 47 million in Latin America!

"Overproducing" only because you are wearing your yellow tinted glasses that can only see solutions that are attached to dollar signs! There is "No overproducing" happening in Thailand today, to say that there is not a useful and economically feasible solution to sell or trade the rice to other countries right here in Asia.

One needs only to use common sense, and to look for solutions outside of the box!

Cheers

[ExpatOilWorker]

Is it possible that a proportion of this rice has suffered from poor storage conditions, (damp, mould, infestation, contamination) and is now unfit for consumption ?

Clean it up use it as animal feed

Peace

And you know how they clean it up? using formaline! Have a good sniff when you open your bag of cheap rice next time. So you think it is ok to do that then feed it to the animals that we then eat? I take it you know about the food chain? It seems you have been living with the rice farmers for so long, you are starting to think like one. Then again, you don't catch many rice farmers eating polished white rice from supermarkets...I wonder why.

Stored rice is fumigated with methyl bromide once a month.

The US don't allow more than 6 fumigation cycles, hence any rice older than 6 months will not pass US import rules.

[Ricardo]

<snip>

We are obligated to make sure our farmers at making a decent living off of growing rice or continued numbers will quit rice farming!

<snip for brevity>

The problem with your thinking here is, that you're happy to have the whole population pay a higher-price for their staple-food, and also to subsidise the industry via the rice-pledging scheme paid-for out of their taxes, as well !

Better to improve productivity, so that a reduced number of rice-farmers can produce the food at a more-profitable price, without being a drag on the rest of the country/economy. Bear in mind that other cheaper producer-countries will force this anyway, whether by taking away Thailand's export-markets, or by shipping their cheaper rice into Thailand from Burma & Cambodia & Laos.

This change will require education & mechanisation & fertilisers & improved seeds & irrigation, to name but a few things, perhaps encouraged by co-operatives & government-research and infrastructure-investment in dams/irrigation-channels.

And I'm afraid that the displaced workers will need to find other things to do, this should surely be possible in a growing developing economy, as Thailand's is. Indeed isn't there supposed (I'm not entirely convinced about this myself) to be a labour-shortage here ?

Edited February 6, 2014 by Ricardo

[ExpatOilWorker]

<snip>

We are obligated to make sure our farmers at making a decent living off of growing rice or continued numbers will quit rice farming!

<snip for brevity>

The problem with your thinking here is, that you're happy to have the whole population pay a higher-price for their staple-food, and also to subsidise the industry via the rice-pledging scheme paid-for out of their taxes, as well !

Better to improve productivity, so that a reduced number of rice-farmers can produce the food at a more-profitable price, without being a drag on the rest of the country/economy. Bear in mind that other cheaper producer-countries will force this anyway, whether by taking away Thailand's export-markets, or by shipping their cheaper rice into Thailand from Burma & Cambodia & Laos.

This change will require education & mechanisation & fertilisers & improved seeds & irrigation, to name but a few things, perhaps encouraged by co-operatives & government-research and infrastructure-investment in dams/irrigation-channels.

And I'm afraid that the displaced workers will need to find other things to do, this should surely be possible in a growing developing economy, as Thailand's is. Indeed isn't there supposed (I'm not entirely convinced about this myself) to be a labour-shortage here ?

The way you put it, makes the situation similar to the coal mine riots in the UK back in the '60/'70, large labor intensive industries that are no longer economical. It takes time and a bit of friction, but at the end sound economies always win. Maybe it is time for Thailand to move toward more efficient, less labor intense large scale farming.

[Crushdepth]

Is it possible that a proportion of this rice has suffered from poor storage conditions, (damp, mould, infestation, contamination) and is now unfit for consumption ?

Clean it up use it as animal feed

Peace

Livestock should not be fed mouldy feed due to risk of contamination with mycotoxins, which can kill the animals or substantially reduce their growth rate. If you want to use it for this purpose it should be tested for the presence of toxins and their concentration to see if they are within acceptable limits, or can be brought within acceptable limits by adding binding agents. But I doubt that anyone is going to bother if they can get uncontaminated grain at a fire-sale price.

[ExpatOilWorker]

Is it possible that a proportion of this rice has suffered from poor storage conditions, (damp, mould, infestation, contamination) and is now unfit for consumption ?

Clean it up use it as animal feed

Peace

Livestock should not be fed mouldy feed due to risk of contamination with mycotoxins, which can kill the animals or substantially reduce their growth rate. If you want to use it for this purpose it should be tested for the presence of toxins and their concentration to see if they are within acceptable limits, or can be brought within acceptable limits by adding binding agents. But I doubt that anyone is going to bother if they can get uncontaminated grain at a fire-sale price.

Maybe grasping for a straw here, but might be a good idea to serve the rice for prisoners on death row.

[GentlemanJim]

Stored rice is fumigated with methyl bromide once a month.

The US don't allow more than 6 fumigation cycles, hence any rice older than 6 months will not pass US import rules.

Yes, you are absolutely right, but please also be aware that to renew the 'white' colour of the rice, certain suppliers to certain large supermarket chains have been washing the rice in formaline. I know because a good friend of the MIL is working in a place that is doing it. He has called everyone he knows saying 'for gawds sake don't eat this rice'! I wonder if the US know that?

[MGP]

Bloomberg analysis: another blow for Yingluck

Why Is China Shunning Rice From Thailand?

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/why-is-china-shunning-rice-from-thailand-19Rw0Xt4SgGWXJKfdyTpkg.html

[kikoman]

Who cares what the price of rice is to international consumers!

We are obligated to make sure our farmers at making a decent living off of growing rice or continued numbers will quit rice farming!

"Destroy the rice they must be kidding" The government should lower the rice stockpiles by distributing it to those Thai's most affected by the loss of the value of the baht, as food to its population and food for its livestock.

Implement direct government to government sales and cut out the elites "middle man" that is driving force behind the raise in the price of Thai rice.

Our family last month was paid 11,000 baht a ton for rice that the present international price is 13,000 baht per ton, "Who has driven the price increase, not the farmers".

Distribute the rice to Thailand's people cut out the middle man, government to government sales!

Just to be clear, I am not sure what law 'obligates' us to do anything - why should the majority of the country be forced to bail out around 3-4 million rice farmers? the best solution is longterm if more rice farmers DO continue to quit rice farming, leaving farms of decent scale for those who remain. Shortterm, obviously, the farmers who entered into a contract with the govt (via pledging) should be paid or should have their rice returned - this is impossible solely because the govt refused to finance the scheme properly and refuses to return the rice (more on that in a minute).

As you well know, real G2G sales don't exist, as I already explained to you multiple times; they have resulted in selling to agents/companies representing various companies, and invariably have achieved a lower price (which is why they cannot disclose details of any of the deals) than if the free market was used. Its a scam with secrecy of 'G2G' - a term used to describe the deals where PT have sold rice to themselves at discount prices, which they then onsell themselves at a profit. Easy money. And none of it paid for by the farmers, it's paid by the taxpayers of Thailand of which farmers are a miniscule proportion.

There is a reason why the economies in USA, Europe, et al use a free market to sell loads of products; it is more efficient than having an organisation (the Thai govt) with no knowledge of the rice industry attempting to act as both sole buyer, and seller, with OUR money. The head of the organisation (the PM) has not even attended meetings about it for goodness sake! How important do you think this is for her? Its not even as important as travelling all around the world promoting herself!

We know a proportion of the rice is missing; a proportion never existed; a proportion is rotten; a proportion is not even Thai rice....your idea to return the rice (which is what some of the farmers want) on some levels would make sense except that there likely isn't enough rice to even return to the farmers who pledged without the entire scheme's true scams being revealed - and for the architects of the scheme, this is not about looking after farmers, it is about concealing the corruption inherent in the scheme and the losses.

The govt will never sell it all without totally destroying the reputation and prices of Thai rice, we would be better to immediately end the scheme and write off 700b baht (or more). But that ending of the scheme would also end this govt and the amnesty opportunity for Thaksin.

Bear in mind the scheme has NEVER delivered the price and deal offered in the manifesto of PT in 2011 on which they were elected; thanks to a skewed media and the power of the party machine, farmers have repeatedly accepted the gradual removal of all aspects of the scheme - just like first car, tablet PC, reconciliation, minimum wage, flood prevention and EVERY other policy of PT - they are the most hopeless govt I think Thailand has had since Chavalit.

So why do PT dig their heels in, despite advice from every informed and logical party many of whom want the best for rice farmers - the scheme is absolute idiocy. It's because their end game is focused on amnesty; that this was for them MORE important than financing rice pledging to them is a matter of public record - they had all the time in the world to push through that amnesty bill with changes at the last minute..they had all the time in the world for 2 trillion baht transport scheme with no scope...but strangely didn't even have 5 minutes to secure accurate data for rice pledging + budget to support it.

I urge you to read what people have written to reply to you multiple times in other threads, I honestly cannot decide whether you are simply trolling for replies.

I only read a part of your post, which greatly mystify me on who you thought you were addressing IE:"As I have already explained to you multiple times" and "Your idea to return the rice" you are mistaken or had to many drinks for breakfast, I do not remember ever having discussed anything with you, as I can not truthfully state "never" but your statement of "multiple times"is definitely not correct!

Your first statement is not clear, as what the law obligates us to do has nothing to say with what I posted. Second, what ever Farangs want have no bearing on what Thailand's people need to address, on their own.

The Statement I made was that "extended members" of our Family were paid last month 11,000 baht per ton for their rice that the article states that on International market price was 13,000 bath per ton, they were paid 2000 baht less then the international selling price. How is that considered asking for to much money for their top quality rice.

The Exporters have 2000 baht per ton profit on each ton of rice, The farmers are not responsible for driving up the price of Thai rice?

I would like to hear from others the prices they or their families were paid for a ton of rice, that is selling presently at 13,000 baht per ton!

Cheers

[GentlemanJim]

Who cares what the price of rice is to international consumers!

We are obligated to make sure our farmers at making a decent living off of growing rice or continued numbers will quit rice farming!

"Destroy the rice they must be kidding" The government should lower the rice stockpiles by distributing it to those Thai's most affected by the loss of the value of the baht, as food to its population and food for its livestock.

Implement direct government to government sales and cut out the elites "middle man" that is driving force behind the raise in the price of Thai rice.

Our family last month was paid 11,000 baht a ton for rice that the present international price is 13,000 baht per ton, "Who has driven the price increase, not the farmers".

Distribute the rice to Thailand's people cut out the middle man, government to government sales!

Just to be clear, I am not sure what law 'obligates' us to do anything - why should the majority of the country be forced to bail out around 3-4 million rice farmers? the best solution is longterm if more rice farmers DO continue to quit rice farming, leaving farms of decent scale for those who remain. Shortterm, obviously, the farmers who entered into a contract with the govt (via pledging) should be paid or should have their rice returned - this is impossible solely because the govt refused to finance the scheme properly and refuses to return the rice (more on that in a minute).

As you well know, real G2G sales don't exist, as I already explained to you multiple times; they have resulted in selling to agents/companies representing various companies, and invariably have achieved a lower price (which is why they cannot disclose details of any of the deals) than if the free market was used. Its a scam with secrecy of 'G2G' - a term used to describe the deals where PT have sold rice to themselves at discount prices, which they then onsell themselves at a profit. Easy money. And none of it paid for by the farmers, it's paid by the taxpayers of Thailand of which farmers are a miniscule proportion.

There is a reason why the economies in USA, Europe, et al use a free market to sell loads of products; it is more efficient than having an organisation (the Thai govt) with no knowledge of the rice industry attempting to act as both sole buyer, and seller, with OUR money. The head of the organisation (the PM) has not even attended meetings about it for goodness sake! How important do you think this is for her? Its not even as important as travelling all around the world promoting herself!

We know a proportion of the rice is missing; a proportion never existed; a proportion is rotten; a proportion is not even Thai rice....your idea to return the rice (which is what some of the farmers want) on some levels would make sense except that there likely isn't enough rice to even return to the farmers who pledged without the entire scheme's true scams being revealed - and for the architects of the scheme, this is not about looking after farmers, it is about concealing the corruption inherent in the scheme and the losses.

The govt will never sell it all without totally destroying the reputation and prices of Thai rice, we would be better to immediately end the scheme and write off 700b baht (or more). But that ending of the scheme would also end this govt and the amnesty opportunity for Thaksin.

Bear in mind the scheme has NEVER delivered the price and deal offered in the manifesto of PT in 2011 on which they were elected; thanks to a skewed media and the power of the party machine, farmers have repeatedly accepted the gradual removal of all aspects of the scheme - just like first car, tablet PC, reconciliation, minimum wage, flood prevention and EVERY other policy of PT - they are the most hopeless govt I think Thailand has had since Chavalit.

So why do PT dig their heels in, despite advice from every informed and logical party many of whom want the best for rice farmers - the scheme is absolute idiocy. It's because their end game is focused on amnesty; that this was for them MORE important than financing rice pledging to them is a matter of public record - they had all the time in the world to push through that amnesty bill with changes at the last minute..they had all the time in the world for 2 trillion baht transport scheme with no scope...but strangely didn't even have 5 minutes to secure accurate data for rice pledging + budget to support it.

I urge you to read what people have written to reply to you multiple times in other threads, I honestly cannot decide whether you are simply trolling for replies.

I only read a part of your post, which greatly mystify me on who you thought you were addressing IE:"As I have already explained to you multiple times" and "Your idea to return the rice" you are mistaken or had to many drinks for breakfast, I do not remember ever having discussed anything with you, as I can not truthfully state "never" but your statement of "multiple times"is definitely not correct!

Your first statement is not clear, as what the law obligates us to do has nothing to say with what I posted. Second, what ever Farangs want have no bearing on what Thailand's people need to address, on their own.

The Statement I made was that "extended members" of our Family were paid last month 11,000 baht per ton for their rice that the article states that on International market price was 13,000 bath per ton, they were paid 2000 baht less then the international selling price. How is that considered asking for to much money for their top quality rice.

The Exporters have 2000 baht per ton profit on each ton of rice, The farmers are not responsible for driving up the price of Thai rice?

I would like to hear from others the prices they or their families were paid for a ton of rice, that is selling presently at 13,000 baht per ton!

Cheers

Go and see your Red Masters! They are telling us all that your family gets 15000 per ton. Nothing to do with exporters. So ask yourself where the other 4000 is going? Furthermore, when you are writing as you are it is dangerous to accuse other people of breakfast time drinking Steve's post is excellent, your's....well

[Scamper]

The banks won't touch it. Export markets won't buy it. There is five years of rice sitting in silos, which nobody wants. The rice exporting industry has been ruined. The farmers are now reduced to selling their tractors to make ends meet. The country has lost hundreds of billions of baht. The NACC is now directing a microscope at the scheme, exposing deals that never took place and monies that just disappeared. The programme actually has stopped, because the administration can no longer conjure up the cash. Being a caretaker administration has opened them up to much more scrutiny that they ever had while in government. They could avoid the scrutiny then. They cannot now.

[kikoman]

Here is an interesting calculation.

1 tons of rice can produce 390 l of 96.5% ethanol. Since fuel ethanol is sold at about 17 baht/l, 1 tons of non-food grade rice is worth 6,630 baht.

We have to include the production costs. And as far as I know, the Bioethanol production is developing the use of rice straw and other farm waste, but not the food. That would not be seen with good eyes, considering the millions of deaths due to global hunger.

The post clearly states "non food grade rice" not to be confused with food grade rice, their is many uses for the stored rice, but at the moment the elite wants you to believe different!

Cheers

[GentlemanJim]

Here is an interesting calculation.

1 tons of rice can produce 390 l of 96.5% ethanol. Since fuel ethanol is sold at about 17 baht/l, 1 tons of non-food grade rice is worth 6,630 baht.

We have to include the production costs. And as far as I know, the Bioethanol production is developing the use of rice straw and other farm waste, but not the food. That would not be seen with good eyes, considering the millions of deaths due to global hunger.

The post clearly states "non food grade rice" not to be confused with food grade rice, their is many uses for the stored rice, but at the moment the elite wants you to believe different!

Cheers

Gawd help us, there is no hope!

their is many uses for the stored rice, but at the moment the elite wants you to believe different!

[kikoman]

Who cares what the price of rice is to international consumers!

We are obligated to make sure our farmers at making a decent living off of growing rice or continued numbers will quit rice farming!

"Destroy the rice they must be kidding" The government should lower the rice stockpiles by distributing it to those Thai's most affected by the loss of the value of the baht, as food to its population and food for its livestock.

Implement direct government to government sales and cut out the elites "middle man" that is driving force behind the raise in the price of Thai rice.

Our family last month was paid 11,000 baht a ton for rice that the present international price is 13,000 baht per ton, "Who has driven the price increase, not the farmers".

Distribute the rice to Thailand's people cut out the middle man, government to government sales!

Just to be clear, I am not sure what law 'obligates' us to do anything - why should the majority of the country be forced to bail out around 3-4 million rice farmers? the best solution is longterm if more rice farmers DO continue to quit rice farming, leaving farms of decent scale for those who remain. Shortterm, obviously, the farmers who entered into a contract with the govt (via pledging) should be paid or should have their rice returned - this is impossible solely because the govt refused to finance the scheme properly and refuses to return the rice (more on that in a minute).

As you well know, real G2G sales don't exist, as I already explained to you multiple times; they have resulted in selling to agents/companies representing various companies, and invariably have achieved a lower price (which is why they cannot disclose details of any of the deals) than if the free market was used. Its a scam with secrecy of 'G2G' - a term used to describe the deals where PT have sold rice to themselves at discount prices, which they then onsell themselves at a profit. Easy money. And none of it paid for by the farmers, it's paid by the taxpayers of Thailand of which farmers are a miniscule proportion.

There is a reason why the economies in USA, Europe, et al use a free market to sell loads of products; it is more efficient than having an organisation (the Thai govt) with no knowledge of the rice industry attempting to act as both sole buyer, and seller, with OUR money. The head of the organisation (the PM) has not even attended meetings about it for goodness sake! How important do you think this is for her? Its not even as important as travelling all around the world promoting herself!

We know a proportion of the rice is missing; a proportion never existed; a proportion is rotten; a proportion is not even Thai rice....your idea to return the rice (which is what some of the farmers want) on some levels would make sense except that there likely isn't enough rice to even return to the farmers who pledged without the entire scheme's true scams being revealed - and for the architects of the scheme, this is not about looking after farmers, it is about concealing the corruption inherent in the scheme and the losses.

The govt will never sell it all without totally destroying the reputation and prices of Thai rice, we would be better to immediately end the scheme and write off 700b baht (or more). But that ending of the scheme would also end this govt and the amnesty opportunity for Thaksin.

Bear in mind the scheme has NEVER delivered the price and deal offered in the manifesto of PT in 2011 on which they were elected; thanks to a skewed media and the power of the party machine, farmers have repeatedly accepted the gradual removal of all aspects of the scheme - just like first car, tablet PC, reconciliation, minimum wage, flood prevention and EVERY other policy of PT - they are the most hopeless govt I think Thailand has had since Chavalit.

So why do PT dig their heels in, despite advice from every informed and logical party many of whom want the best for rice farmers - the scheme is absolute idiocy. It's because their end game is focused on amnesty; that this was for them MORE important than financing rice pledging to them is a matter of public record - they had all the time in the world to push through that amnesty bill with changes at the last minute..they had all the time in the world for 2 trillion baht transport scheme with no scope...but strangely didn't even have 5 minutes to secure accurate data for rice pledging + budget to support it.

I urge you to read what people have written to reply to you multiple times in other threads, I honestly cannot decide whether you are simply trolling for replies.

I only read a part of your post, which greatly mystify me on who you thought you were addressing IE:"As I have already explained to you multiple times" and "Your idea to return the rice" you are mistaken or had to many drinks for breakfast, I do not remember ever having discussed anything with you, as I can not truthfully state "never" but your statement of "multiple times"is definitely not correct!

Your first statement is not clear, as what the law obligates us to do has nothing to say with what I posted. Second, what ever Farangs want have no bearing on what Thailand's people need to address, on their own.

The Statement I made was that "extended members" of our Family were paid last month 11,000 baht per ton for their rice that the article states that on International market price was 13,000 bath per ton, they were paid 2000 baht less then the international selling price. How is that considered asking for to much money for their top quality rice.

The Exporters have 2000 baht per ton profit on each ton of rice, The farmers are not responsible for driving up the price of Thai rice?

I would like to hear from others the prices they or their families were paid for a ton of rice, that is selling presently at 13,000 baht per ton!

Cheers

Go and see your Red Masters! They are telling us all that your family gets 15000 per ton. Nothing to do with exporters. So ask yourself where the other 4000 is going? Furthermore, when you are writing as you are it is dangerous to accuse other people of breakfast time drinking Steve's post is excellent, your's....well

I unlike the yellows have no masters of whatever color of Tee shirt they may wear, I do as I please and do not owe "diddly S" to no one, Except to observe the laws of my host country, Thailand!

You should note that the rice pledge allows the farmer to mortgage their rice to up to 15,000 baht a ton, as most people with common sense know, that the banks is the agency that sets the amount they will allow a crop to be mortgage at depending on the price of rice on the international market at the time of the agreement! So you are mistaken if you say anyone is saying they are all allowed a mortgage of 15,000 baht a ton.

That is the figure that the yellows have been stating, so in turn it is best you inquirer to that concern to your yellow masters before the BIB gets them!

Tell some one who cares if you dislike their post, to me don't care. it is also dangerous to accuse people in your post of actions that never happened, if he was not mistaken, It most likely be blamed on hallucinations from to much liquid rice for breakfast,

Peace

[JRSoul]

Who cares what the price of rice is to international consumers!

We are obligated to make sure our farmers at making a decent living off of growing rice or continued numbers will quit rice farming!

"Destroy the rice they must be kidding" The government should lower the rice stockpiles by distributing it to those Thai's most affected by the loss of the value of the baht, as food to its population and food for its livestock.

Implement direct government to government sales and cut out the elites "middle man" that is driving force behind the raise in the price of Thai rice.

Our family last month was paid 11,000 baht a ton for rice that the present international price is 13,000 baht per ton, "Who has driven the price increase, not the farmers".

Distribute the rice to Thailand's people cut out the middle man, government to government sales!

Peace

"We are obligated to make sure our farmers at making a decent living off of growing rice or continued numbers will quit rice farming!"

What an incredibly stupid statement. Why should taxpayers ensure YOU have a decent living because you choose invest in an uneconomic industry that is overproducing during a world glut? Growing numbers will quit rice farming - great, let them do something to earn their own living instead of sucking on a corrupt government's tit.

The main reason PTP was elected was because of this unsustainable policy used to buy your family's votes. Well the policy has failed at great cost to the nation, but you want more. Explain to me why the tax I pay should go to YOUR family instead of supplying infrastructure and services for mine.

What an incredibly stupid assumption!

What is it that YOU can document YOUR assumption that I invest or farm in any industry much less a (uneconomic) one your clueless assumption is only out-done by your incredibly lack of knowledge of what is happening in the world today!

Your statement "that is overproducing during a world glut" is a classic example of how clueless that statement is! 842 million people world wide suffer from hunger today (IE: they do not have enough food to eat), 552 million of those people are in ASIA, 223 million in Africa and 47 million in Latin America!

"Overproducing" only because you are wearing your yellow tinted glasses that can only see solutions that are attached to dollar signs! There is "No overproducing" happening in Thailand today, to say that there is not a useful and economically feasible solution to sell or trade the rice to other countries right here in Asia.

One needs only to use common sense, and to look for solutions outside of the box!

Cheers

"Our family last month was paid 11,000 baht a ton for rice........." Your words, your family, your subsidy and your bias.

The world is currently producing more rice than people can afford to buy. Of course, we could always reduce the price and pay you a bigger subsidy so you have a "decent living" but if you really want to solve world hunger you can accept a lower return. Up to you, just don't expect taxpayers to support you.

BTW the aim of the rice scam was to push the price of rice UP. No thought was given to the poor who would no longer be able to afford it.

[GentlemanJim]

Just to be clear, I am not sure what law 'obligates' us to do anything - why should the majority of the country be forced to bail out around 3-4 million rice farmers? the best solution is longterm if more rice farmers DO continue to quit rice farming, leaving farms of decent scale for those who remain. Shortterm, obviously, the farmers who entered into a contract with the govt (via pledging) should be paid or should have their rice returned - this is impossible solely because the govt refused to finance the scheme properly and refuses to return the rice (more on that in a minute).

As you well know, real G2G sales don't exist, as I already explained to you multiple times; they have resulted in selling to agents/companies representing various companies, and invariably have achieved a lower price (which is why they cannot disclose details of any of the deals) than if the free market was used. Its a scam with secrecy of 'G2G' - a term used to describe the deals where PT have sold rice to themselves at discount prices, which they then onsell themselves at a profit. Easy money. And none of it paid for by the farmers, it's paid by the taxpayers of Thailand of which farmers are a miniscule proportion.

There is a reason why the economies in USA, Europe, et al use a free market to sell loads of products; it is more efficient than having an organisation (the Thai govt) with no knowledge of the rice industry attempting to act as both sole buyer, and seller, with OUR money. The head of the organisation (the PM) has not even attended meetings about it for goodness sake! How important do you think this is for her? Its not even as important as travelling all around the world promoting herself!

We know a proportion of the rice is missing; a proportion never existed; a proportion is rotten; a proportion is not even Thai rice....your idea to return the rice (which is what some of the farmers want) on some levels would make sense except that there likely isn't enough rice to even return to the farmers who pledged without the entire scheme's true scams being revealed - and for the architects of the scheme, this is not about looking after farmers, it is about concealing the corruption inherent in the scheme and the losses.

The govt will never sell it all without totally destroying the reputation and prices of Thai rice, we would be better to immediately end the scheme and write off 700b baht (or more). But that ending of the scheme would also end this govt and the amnesty opportunity for Thaksin.

Bear in mind the scheme has NEVER delivered the price and deal offered in the manifesto of PT in 2011 on which they were elected; thanks to a skewed media and the power of the party machine, farmers have repeatedly accepted the gradual removal of all aspects of the scheme - just like first car, tablet PC, reconciliation, minimum wage, flood prevention and EVERY other policy of PT - they are the most hopeless govt I think Thailand has had since Chavalit.

So why do PT dig their heels in, despite advice from every informed and logical party many of whom want the best for rice farmers - the scheme is absolute idiocy. It's because their end game is focused on amnesty; that this was for them MORE important than financing rice pledging to them is a matter of public record - they had all the time in the world to push through that amnesty bill with changes at the last minute..they had all the time in the world for 2 trillion baht transport scheme with no scope...but strangely didn't even have 5 minutes to secure accurate data for rice pledging + budget to support it.

I urge you to read what people have written to reply to you multiple times in other threads, I honestly cannot decide whether you are simply trolling for replies.

I only read a part of your post, which greatly mystify me on who you thought you were addressing IE:"As I have already explained to you multiple times" and "Your idea to return the rice" you are mistaken or had to many drinks for breakfast, I do not remember ever having discussed anything with you, as I can not truthfully state "never" but your statement of "multiple times"is definitely not correct!

Your first statement is not clear, as what the law obligates us to do has nothing to say with what I posted. Second, what ever Farangs want have no bearing on what Thailand's people need to address, on their own.

The Statement I made was that "extended members" of our Family were paid last month 11,000 baht per ton for their rice that the article states that on International market price was 13,000 bath per ton, they were paid 2000 baht less then the international selling price. How is that considered asking for to much money for their top quality rice.

The Exporters have 2000 baht per ton profit on each ton of rice, The farmers are not responsible for driving up the price of Thai rice?

I would like to hear from others the prices they or their families were paid for a ton of rice, that is selling presently at 13,000 baht per ton!

Cheers

Go and see your Red Masters! They are telling us all that your family gets 15000 per ton. Nothing to do with exporters. So ask yourself where the other 4000 is going? Furthermore, when you are writing as you are it is dangerous to accuse other people of breakfast time drinking alt=rolleyes.gif width=20 height=20> Steve's post is excellent, your's....well alt=whistling.gif width=19 height=18>

I unlike the yellows have no masters of whatever color of Tee shirt they may wear, I do as I please and do not owe "diddly S" to no one, Except to observe the laws of my host country, Thailand!

You should note that the rice pledge allows the farmer to mortgage their rice to up to 15,000 baht a ton, as most people with common sense know, that the banks is the agency that sets the amount they will allow a crop to be mortgage at depending on the price of rice on the international market at the time of the agreement! So you are mistaken if you say anyone is saying they are all allowed a mortgage of 15,000 baht a ton.

That is the figure that the yellows have been stating, so in turn it is best you inquirer to that concern to your yellow masters before the BIB gets them!

Tell some one who cares if you dislike their post, to me don't care. it is also dangerous to accuse people in your post of actions that never happened, if he was not mistaken, It most likely be blamed on hallucinations from to much liquid rice for breakfast,

Peace

You know, that 'Peace' at the end of all your posts is beginning to sound like the 'Peace' blurted out by hippies when they are stoned. Lets just leave it eh, as there is little I can say, you are doing a good job of it yourself. There was once a very wise chap called Abraham Lincoln (have you heard of him?) perhaps you would do well to listen to his advice.

""Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt"

Good luck to your family, because if your 'red' tainted vision has been caught off them they are going to need it in the future.

[steveromagnino]

We are obligated to make sure our farmers at making a decent living off of growing rice

The government should lower the rice stockpiles by distributing it to those Thai's most affected by the loss of the value of the baht, as food to its population and food for its livestock.

Distribute the rice to Thailand's people cut out the middle man, government to government sales!

Just to be clear, I am not sure what law 'obligates' us to do anything

your idea to return the rice (which is what some of the farmers want) on some levels would make sense

I only read a part of your post, which greatly mystify me on who you thought you were addressing IE:"As I have already explained to you multiple times" and "Your idea to return the rice" I do not remember ever having discussed anything with you

Your first statement is not clear, as what the law obligates us to do has nothing to say with what I posted. Second, what ever Farangs want have no bearing on what Thailand's people need to address, on their own.

I have responded to your points above.

"I do not remember ever having discussed anything with you"

1. Indeed I have explained these rice pledging issues multiple times, not to you but to the board - you are indeed correct - poor and very incorrect choice of words on my part to imply you might have read these threads - perhaps if you are interested you can visit these threads if you want to see how this situation unfolded

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/702136-loss-making-rice-sales-only-way-out-for-thai-govt/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/702002-china-cancels-thailand-rice-deal-amid-probe/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/701931-auditor-general-tells-caretaker-pm-yingluck-to-scrap-rice-pledging-scheme/

Rest assured though, we have discussed things together - to refresh your memory what we debated (or to be more correct where I corrected your mistaken claim) was regarding your statement "(89%) of Thai registered voters chose to vote"yesterday!" which I carefully explained, and referenced, was not even close to correct; latest counts are around 45-50% - ref thread

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/701639-democrat-party-to-seek-thai-court-annulment-of-snap-polls/

"Your first statement is not clear, as what the law obligates us to do has nothing to say with what I posted"

2. your idea of an obligation to which I responded having no basis in law was based on you saying "We are obligated to make sure our farmers at making a decent living off of growing rice or...." to which I stated "I am not sure what law 'obligates' us to do anything" to which you responded "as what the law obligates us to do has nothing to say with what I posted" - perhaps there is something else that forms an obligation - I am but a humble student on the law so I tend to place some faith in words such as obligation reflecting either a moral, ethical or legal element - perhaps you can explain what this obligation you speak of is based on if not law? If you mean there is an obligation because otherwise there would be fewer farmers in future, well I already answered that also here "the best solution is longterm if more rice farmers DO continue to quit rice farming, leaving farms of decent scale for those who remain"

"Second, what ever Farangs want have no bearing on what Thailand's people need to address, on their own."

3. I do not make IDIOTIC assumptions who on this board is or is not Thai....as it so happens....I am Thai

"Your idea to return the rice"

4. You have said "The government should lower the rice stockpiles by distributing it to those Thai's most affected by the loss of the value of the baht" & then "Distribute the rice to Thailand's people" to which I responded "your idea to return the rice" which is not strictly what you said, upon re-read - in fact you want to give the rice to

a. people most affected by the loss of the value of the baht which would be the large owners of companies such as large luxury watch brand importers and luxury car industry perhaps, or large trading companies with exposure to the USD/Euro. CP perhaps.

b. Thai people (in general - no further explanation provided)

I apologise in misunderstanding that you would want to distribute rice to the farmers, I would have thought to return the rice to the people who grew it and are demanding it back as they were not paid for it is fair enough - I would personally consider those most affected are the people who invested in it based on a LEGAL relationship with the government and haven't been paid rather than the unrelated impact of the loss of value of the baht, but again, I look forward to understanding your reasoning as to why people like K Dhanin Chearavanont and Thai beer tycoon Charoen Sirivadhanabhakdi , two of Thailand's richest men, who are both heavily exposed to the USD:THB exchange rate - logically as they are the most affected persons by the loss of the value of the baht, would make, in your mind, ideal candidates to give the rice to as "Thai's most affected by the loss of the value of the baht" - certainly in both absolute amount and percentage.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/21/us-thailand-tycoon-debt-idUSBREA0K1ND20140121

Edited February 6, 2014 by steveromagnino

[bigbamboo]

Who cares what the price of rice is to international consumers!

We are obligated to make sure our farmers at making a decent living off of growing rice or continued numbers will quit rice farming!

"Destroy the rice they must be kidding" The government should lower the rice stockpiles by distributing it to those Thai's most affected by the loss of the value of the baht, as food to its population and food for its livestock.

Implement direct government to government sales and cut out the elites "middle man" that is driving force behind the raise in the price of Thai rice.

Our family last month was paid 11,000 baht a ton for rice that the present international price is 13,000 baht per ton, "Who has driven the price increase, not the farmers".

Distribute the rice to Thailand's people cut out the middle man, government to government sales!

Peace

That's more or less what Suthep is advocating with his auctions.... get rid of it quickly, preferably to local people at a knockdown price so the farmers can be paid.

Edited February 6, 2014 by bigbamboo

[Thai at Heart]

I feel like a soothsayer. The price of Thailand stored rice will drop especially jasmine rice - of which Thailand is still the major exporter. The 2nd grade and other rice will be sold off cheaply or dumped, but not before the farmers in some areas try to get it back to sell privately. The best way out of the mess is to scrap rice pledging, which was due to end this month anyway, - farmers all know this already.

The way forward is for Thailand to try and establish a common price for different grades with neighbouring countries so that they create a cartel. That way farmers would see a rise in their net income. Problem - Thais and the other countries are not really very cooperative, despite all the Asean rhetoric.

But in the immediate sense, it is crystal clear that Yingluck has deliberately turned a blind eye to the progressive failure of both rice pledging, and the marketing to China and other major buyers. Yet she is the chairperson of the peak industry body. The question is why has she done that when her government apparently needed the farmers votes ? The longer she and the government can delay any legal examination of the mess, the better so that the 50%+ monies that are missing from the rice budget can be buried even further. The current scheme to try and force the international rice price up, is nothing but a scam.

Meanwhile farmers get further into debt and become more angry. This whole debacle is much bigger than the Bangkok protests.

Furthermore, they need to stop growing so much of the generic "white rice".

Yes thai rice goes for a premium, but not all of it. If you want firm prices, you need to limit supply .

[Thai at Heart]

Give the rice back?

Hmmmm. They have a contract of delivery to the government at a given price. Someone is on the hook for that money. Simple.

[attento]

Is it possible that a proportion of this rice has suffered from poor storage conditions, (damp, mould, infestation, contamination) and is now unfit for consumption ?

Clean it up use it as animal feed

Peace

And you know how they clean it up? using formaline! Have a good sniff when you open your bag of cheap rice next time. So you think it is ok to do that then feed it to the animals that we then eat? I take it you know about the food chain? It seems you have been living with the rice farmers for so long, you are starting to think like one. Then again, you don't catch many rice farmers eating polished white rice from supermarkets...I wonder why.

Stored rice is fumigated with methyl bromide once a month.

The US don't allow more than 6 fumigation cycles, hence any rice older than 6 months will not pass US import rules.

Was any significant amount of this stored rice destined for the USA ? More likely to find a home in less demanding markets (if the sellers are lucky).

Edited February 6, 2014 by attento

[Crushdepth]

Who cares what the price of rice is to international consumers!

We are obligated to make sure our farmers at making a decent living off of growing rice or continued numbers will quit rice farming!

"Destroy the rice they must be kidding" The government should lower the rice stockpiles by distributing it to those Thai's most affected by the loss of the value of the baht, as food to its population and food for its livestock.

Implement direct government to government sales and cut out the elites "middle man" that is driving force behind the raise in the price of Thai rice.

Our family last month was paid 11,000 baht a ton for rice that the present international price is 13,000 baht per ton, "Who has driven the price increase, not the farmers".

Distribute the rice to Thailand's people cut out the middle man, government to government sales!

Peace

"We are obligated to make sure our farmers at making a decent living off of growing rice or continued numbers will quit rice farming!"

What an incredibly stupid statement. Why should taxpayers ensure YOU have a decent living because you choose invest in an uneconomic industry that is overproducing during a world glut? Growing numbers will quit rice farming - great, let them do something to earn their own living instead of sucking on a corrupt government's tit.

The main reason PTP was elected was because of this unsustainable policy used to buy your family's votes. Well the policy has failed at great cost to the nation, but you want more. Explain to me why the tax I pay should go to YOUR family instead of supplying infrastructure and services for mine.

What an incredibly stupid assumption!

What is it that YOU can document YOUR assumption that I invest or farm in any industry much less a (uneconomic) one your clueless assumption is only out-done by your incredibly lack of knowledge of what is happening in the world today!

Your statement "that is overproducing during a world glut" is a classic example of how clueless that statement is! 842 million people world wide suffer from hunger today (IE: they do not have enough food to eat), 552 million of those people are in ASIA, 223 million in Africa and 47 million in Latin America!

"Overproducing" only because you are wearing your yellow tinted glasses that can only see solutions that are attached to dollar signs! There is "No overproducing" happening in Thailand today, to say that there is not a useful and economically feasible solution to sell or trade the rice to other countries right here in Asia.

One needs only to use common sense, and to look for solutions outside of the box!

Cheers

People rarely hungry because of a lack of food. There is plenty of food to go around even though a lot of it is wasted. Producing more food will not stop hunger.

Don't try to use hunger as an argument to support the rice scheme or to subsidise rice farmers in an unsustainable way. The rice scheme is simply stupid.

If the industry is to survive it must compete. If it can't compete then other countries will take over production. Which they are already doing, because this scheme has made Thai rice...uncompetitive. Whoops...

Ever thought of blaming the government?

[Ulic]

I predicted that the exporters were going to get nervy over these stockpiles. This not only should wreck the Thai rice industry beyond repair, but will cause a massive effect on global rice export businesses who are not even involved with Thailand.

Thaksin has basically shafted the world as far as rice is concerned, the most consumed foodstuff on the planet.

That will take some beating in the world record for cock ups.

The only way they can repair this, is like others have said, send it all to the bottom of the ocean.

From here on in.... the rice farmers are f*&^*d.

I don't see how Thaksin has "shafted the world as far as rice is concerned." The rice producing/exporting countries have

benefited getting higher prices for there rice during the time Thai rice was uncompetitive. Now when Thai rice comes back

onto the market the prices will fall. Nothing for free, they got benefit at the start and now the lower prices will even it out.

The people Thaksin shafted are the Thais. Theft, storage fees spoilage, the list goes on. The simple thing to do is burn

it and take a 100% loss. This is ridiculous. Animal feed, make alcohol, donate to famine relief, and of course sell on the

open market. Try to limit the loss to 50%-60% and end the program.

Now these rice producing countries will moan and complain. Much as countries complain about the US fed taper now.

These countries loved the cheap money and capital inflows during the bond buying days and now complain to the US

government about capital outflows. Can't please everyone all the time, and this rice scheme/program has to end.

IE. now the rice farmers will be even more upset.Oh well.

[Ricardo]

<snip>

We are obligated to make sure our farmers at making a decent living off of growing rice or continued numbers will quit rice farming!

<snip for brevity>

The problem with your thinking here is, that you're happy to have the whole population pay a higher-price for their staple-food, and also to subsidise the industry via the rice-pledging scheme paid-for out of their taxes, as well !

Better to improve productivity, so that a reduced number of rice-farmers can produce the food at a more-profitable price, without being a drag on the rest of the country/economy. Bear in mind that other cheaper producer-countries will force this anyway, whether by taking away Thailand's export-markets, or by shipping their cheaper rice into Thailand from Burma & Cambodia & Laos.

This change will require education & mechanisation & fertilisers & improved seeds & irrigation, to name but a few things, perhaps encouraged by co-operatives & government-research and infrastructure-investment in dams/irrigation-channels.

And I'm afraid that the displaced workers will need to find other things to do, this should surely be possible in a growing developing economy, as Thailand's is. Indeed isn't there supposed (I'm not entirely convinced about this myself) to be a labour-shortage here ?

The way you put it, makes the situation similar to the coal mine riots in the UK back in the '60/'70, large labor intensive industries that are no longer economical. It takes time and a bit of friction, but at the end sound economies always win. Maybe it is time for Thailand to move toward more efficient, less labor intense large scale farming.

Yes, I believe that there are some similarities, the thing I most deplore about the way Maggie & the Cons treated the miners was, given that the structural readjustment had to be carried-out, they then chose to do it in a particularly painful & insensitive way, as though "if its not hurting, it's not working" was any more than a crass political-theory for yuppies to parrot.

One objective to bear in mind, is that whatever happens must benefit the consumers, rather than just the producers. The total Thai population counts higher than only the ones who are involved in rice-farming. And a more-efficient rice-growing industry should produce more wealth, for the remaining farmers to divide-up, while the workers released can go into more-productive occupations.

Government can either direct its limited resources to enabling/smoothing the change, or to trying to maintain the old way-of-life for a few more years, before it ends.

Time to look forwards rather than backwards IMO.