Caretaker PM Yingluck shuts option for neutral, non-elected premier

[Old Man River]

so what happened to the April 1st deadline were she must step down and the mantle is passed to the senate to install a CTPM and administration

and 20 million people voting of which 12 million didn't vote for you dear lady and if you include those that didn't vote at all but could have that makes about 32 million that didn't vote for you - a clear message if ever there was one

Bullocks.

The Establishment Post has the election data. Apparently, the PTP got around 10 million votes (down from 2011), but of course won more seats as the Un-Democratic party didn't participate.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[rubl]

Nobody knows yet. The Election is not finished and the results therefore will not be known until that time. Any pronouncements made wrt the Election results are therefore supposition.

Whether or not a majority of people support Yingluck is therefore also an unknown and more to the point, irrelevant, as the democratic method of electing a government in Thailand is those with the most votes wins. Simple enough really.

Actually, government in Thailand is formed with more than 50% of seats. Too simple for some.

I swear you get more pedantic by the minute.

Now that we are the pendantic trail ...

The party which wins most seats gets a first chance to form a government. If they're large enough they could form a single party government, otherwise a coalition government. If thet largest party isn't able to form a government the second largest gets a chance.

Begium had a bit more than a year of that two years ago.

[Trembly]

The Shinawatra's backs are up against the wall...

The get out of jail card "The Amnesty" bill failed, they are now holding on by the nails to power because when they go, and they will there will be many revelations that will shock even the the most die hardened red shits.

I just hope Thaksin has a big house out there in Dubai for the many refugee house guests that will be turning up in the next few weeks.

Actually the paymaster has been warned before to not use Dubai as a base for his political activities.

A stream of 'refugees (corrupt leaches) arriving there with the same certain address at hand might well be the straw that cancels the 'you can live here if your quiet' set up.

Those who have been paying attention in recent years will have noticed that Thaksin has been quite mobile. Not only has he been investing in mines here and casinos there but he also appears to favour Hong Kong and a number of ASEAN countries as places where he can hold court and perhaps watch from the ringside.

Maybe he took the caution from the UAE authorities seriously, or maybe he's just a bit bored of Dubai now.

Doesn't anyone remember the periodic junkets by ministers, police chiefs and other political hopefuls to wherever he happened to be, and how it was all laughably shrugged off as "personal trip, nothing to do with politics"?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Edited February 8, 2014 by Trembly

[Mark Thaiford]

Hope you have eliminated yourself and I from those who cheer on the abolition of democracy. I would suggest that most farangs as you like to call us, would opt for a democratic, transparent and honest government elected by the majority of Thais for the betterment of Thailand. Not a government filled with corrupt vote buying scum-bags only interested in creaming off as much money as they can for themselves.

Exactly. Though I'm against what Suthep is doing the majority of the time; how anyone with any care for Thais and their country could stick up for this Government is beyond me. The money and care isn't going to the Poor folk, wake up! A huge amount is disappearing into the pockets of over rich, scared of losing face, corrupt parasites. The Amnesty Bill and Rice Scheme are all evidence of this, what other evidence do they need?

"corrupt vote buying scumbags" - you mean like the likes of Suthep?

"only interested in creaming off as much money as they can for themselves" - you mean like Suthep?

"The money and care isnt going to the Poor folk" - How do you know what is gong to the "poor folk" ? Are you one of the "poor folk"?

" a huge amount is disappearing into pockets of corrupt parasites" - Ahhh you mean the likes of Suthep again.

Once again the arguments of the Democracy-hating farangs is thoroughly devoid of any real evidence and filled with their usual cliches about corruption, unsubstantiated claims, exaggerated allegations, corruption bla bla bla. As if anyone with half a brain cell really thinks the likes of Suthep will ever want to get rid of corruption

[MGP]

I don´t get it. During the Motion of No Conficence, the only answer that she could give to the accusations of corruption on the Rice Pledge Scheme were "I don´t know. I delegated the responsibilities. I was not aware of that", although she was the head in charge of the Rice Scheme. And there she is, theoretically taking full responsibility for "leading" the country. She is good at that thing, isn´t she?. I have no idea about what is "that thing", but she is really good at it.

Edited February 8, 2014 by MGP

[saakura]

Pridiyathorn was a typically solid Thai central bank governor but now he's gone off the deep end of Thai politics and has slipped on his own banana peel.

As the Nation editorial board wrote on December 10th last year,

What is clear, however, is that another election is not what the Democrats or their fellow protesters want.

As things stand, the opposition has no chance of winning an election and replacing the so-called "Thaksin Shinawatra regime" in power.

Instead, it wants Yingluck to step down so it can install a "neutral" caretaker government that would rule in its favour. This would increase the opposition's chances of victory at the ballot box.

However, there is no clear legal provision for installing an interim government outside the electoral system. Protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban and his legal advisers have suggested that, as head of state, His Majesty the King could apply Section 7 of the Constitution to allow for the appointment of a non-elected prime minister and caretaker government while a "people's council" drafts new rules for a new "game".

But Section 7 simply says: "Whenever no provision under this Constitution is applicable to any case, it shall be decided in accordance with the constitutional convention in the democratic regime of government with the King as Head of State." Suthep faces great difficulty in twisting this proviso to mean that His Majesty should choose someone for the top government job rather than the broad electorate. In 2006 the King decided he had no authority to do so in such a situation and deemed the notion undemocratic.

The charter stipulates that the "constitutional convention in the democratic regime of government" is to have an elected prime minister. Anything else would violate democratic norms. Of course, this country has a long history of non-elected premiers, but we only have to review the record of dictatorships over the years to see how disastrous they can be. Elections are still the best way to choose a leader - and the only way in a country that wishes to call itself democratic.

I would add that these Thai rightists and their fahalng boosters continue to flail away, this time resurrecting an issue that was made decidedly clear some months ago. They can't quit because they don't know how to quit, why they should quit, when to quit. They've looked ridiculous for a long time yet keep climbing to new heights of desperation.

Wow i cant beleive that the quoted post actually appeared as an editorial piece in The Nation which mostly seems to be completely obsessed with opposing Thaksin in any which way, even if it means trashing democracy.

[saakura]

Yingluck is not protecting her to her position for the sake of being in power, she is protecting the rule of law, the constitution, democracy and the will of the electorate against a cowardly and bullying opponent.

Thats why she has the support of the vast majority of Thai people and full international support. In the face of this crisis, she has shown more maturity and responsibility than the last 10 prime ministers combined.

It is believed that about 20,000,000 people voted of which it is thought that PTP received less than 8,000,000 votes and yet you say 'the vast majority of Thai people support her' Join the real world and ditch the red tinted glasses!

Anybody knows how many voted for Suthep?

[Basil B]

The Shinawatra's backs are up against the wall...

The get out of jail card "The Amnesty" bill failed, they are now holding on by the nails to power because when they go, and they will there will be many revelations that will shock even the the most die hardened red shits.

I just hope Thaksin has a big house out there in Dubai for the many refugee house guests that will be turning up in the next few weeks.

He's got two very nice houses in England conservatively valued at around 750 million baht the pair. And he didn't even need a farang wife to buy them.

Unfortunately...

Though he was asked to leave the UK in 2010 after using the UK as a safe haven to broadcast to the illegal red shirt mob in Bangkok.

Since which he has been allowed to return as he pleases, most convicted criminals are barred.

[Skywalker69]

And who is going to appoint this 'neutral non-elected PM'?

All evidence shows that Thaksin himself is the non-elected PM.

Would you care to enlighten us with all that evidence.

Did you just arrive on this planet, sir?

[focus27]

I think the gov should demand that all the re-elections be held on the same day as the senate elections - 30th March.

Perhaps even better, a full national election on the same day.

That should put a smile on Suthep's smug face - I'm sure he'd be a hero for getting the whole National Assembly, the House and Senate, grinding to a halt.

He needs the Senate to constitutionally set up an unelected council through a decree. So let's see him try to block one election and not the other.

[Macrohistory]

Quietly usher Yingluck into a room. Offer her a comfortable chair, a cup of tea. Place the constitution before her on the table. Furnish her with special gold-framed glasses. Direct her attention to Article 7. She will see that on April 1, there will be set into motion the nomination of an interim prime minister through the Senate, in lieu of a prime minister not having been nominated within 30 days of a parliamentary quorum, and in lieu of a parliamentary quorum having not been achieved 30 days prior to that. Quietly take a step back, as Yingluck composes herself, looks into the distance, thinks some more ... and then lets out a tremendous scream.

Something tells me that, unfortunately, it won't be this simple -- you really have to take what Thanong (the original source of this idea, in The Nation) says with a grain of salt, because Thanong is so yellow that sometimes he can't see the hard, cold, negative realities for what they are. What Yingluck will argue, I expect, is that "the election [for the lower house] isn't over yet; therefore, the Article 7 talk is irrelevant." She will, in other words, do something similar to what Thaksin did in 2006: delay, delay, delay, and hold onto power for as long as possible. Even if the Senate were to choose a new prime minister sometime in early April, it would take a certain amount of organized force to evict Yingluck and company from office. That force can either be the military or armed street protesters (or a combination of both). Meanwhile, by April, I expect hard-core Red/Black Shirts will have infiltrated Bangkok again, and they will use violence to try to keep the Thaksinistas in power. It seems to me highly likely that Thaksin will want to force a showdown, even a bloody showdown, that leads to a coup so he can claim "democracy has been overthrown!" He is precisely the kind of person who would rather use a "Samson strategy," taking everyone down with him, than accept the inevitable and go quietly for the good of Thailand. "Statesmanlike" is not a term that one could ever use to describe him.

[casualbiker]

Why on earth would she stand down...? To set the worst possible precedent ever...? To sanction blatant insurrection...? If she abandons the fragile Democracy which still actually keeps this place going.. it would be the worst thing possible...

An excellent post that puts this whole saga into perspective. The pros and cons of the PTP or the Democrats as rulers do not matter. What matters is preserving the democratic system because once that is lost it could take decades to regain it.

The farang posters in this thread and many others who blindly cheer the abolition of democracy in Thailand have hardly any good arguments to justify the judicial coup in the making - instead they rely on soundbites, a few old quips about corruption and endless tirades of name-calling. All in all their arguments are totally devoid of any intellectual or rational content. And the international media has seen right through that which is why if you want a non-biased view of what is happening in Thailand you need to read foreign media.

The farangs who live in Thailand and cheer on the return of an aristocratic/oligarchic rule to the country do so because they think they are somehow part of the elite that ought to run Thailand. They see themselves as some neo-colonial force on a par with the Thai-Chinese elite. Sadly, the Thai-Chinese elite do not quite see their farang allies like that but are happy to let the farangs stay ignorant about that. The Thai-Chinese know that the pitiful farangs ready to dirty themselves by cheering on the destruction of democracy do so only because of petty self-interest - the farangs are scared that democracy in Thailand will mean an increase to their taxes, they are scared that the great mass of Thai people will increase their lot in life which will make life more expensive for your average expat farang.

Very well written post. Thank you for this contribution.

You do know that Yingluck and the Shinawatra clan are Chinese Thai ...?

I'm really also trying to work out how Democracy will make taxes go up or how Thais increasing their lot in life will make life more expensive!

I would have thought that taxes would generally stay the same as more and more Thais actually started to pay tax.

This is interesting. In 2011 only 2.3 million people out of a population of 64million paid personal income tax here in Thailand. I doubt the figures today are much different .. but allowing double = 4.6 million from 66 million ..

http://asiancorrespondent.com/64442/will-the-thai-middle-class-rebel-against-populist-policies/

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited February 8, 2014 by casualbiker

[jcb2001]

“If (you) want a prime minister with full power, the only option is to tear up the Constitution. Whether tearing up the Constitution will be successful or not depends on the people. It’s up to the people if they want to preserve democracy but the election has shown that 20 million people exercising their voting rights to maintain democracy.”

Nope,... you gotta ask the army....

The Army is too busy "ruling" the southern 3 provinces and presiding over daily bombings and killings. Bet they are glad they don't have to rule the rest of the country in this manner.

the Army coming in now is most unlikely as Suthep is down to his last few hundred followers. They only get rally in evening as they take the rally to the office workers in Asoke and Silom.

Contrast the Reds Rally. They were here in bigger numbers and a long way from their villages and still had many times more people in Lumpin than Suthep has now.

It would be good now for the Government if they did have a coup. It would allow the people to see the corruption and bumbling of the the Junta that we saw last time. Then.... Sooner rather than later. A real uprising of real people marching for democracy.

Millions of people have died fighting for their rights all over the world. That this attack against democracy is allowed to stay out there for so long is damaging Thailand internationally.

So, I guess your vile solution is, "Just let the Thaksin regime do their gov't thing and everything will return to normal." If you think that Thaksin's gov't is real democracy, then I pity the poor people of Thailand, as they have the most to loose in this conflict. Thaksin alone is the problem with Thailand. Wheither it is Suthep or any other patriot trying to save Thailand, it is for the better.

[Ron19]

And who is going to appoint this 'neutral non-elected PM'?

All evidence shows that Thaksin himself is the non-elected PM.

Would you care to enlighten us with all that evidence.

Did you just arrive on this planet, sir?

No been here for sometime living under a rock.

[Baerboxer]

Yingluck is not protecting her to her position for the sake of being in power, she is protecting the rule of law, the constitution, democracy and the will of the electorate against a cowardly and bullying opponent.

Thats why she has the support of the vast majority of Thai people and full international support. In the face of this crisis, she has shown more maturity and responsibility than the last 10 prime ministers combined.

That's your opinion. Or it could be that she, her family and gang are desperate to cling on to power and prevent any new government, of whatever make up, taking power and getting a look at the books.

For the Shins, this has become a game of survival. Loose this, and the consequences for them may be dire. In power, they still have a chance of blustering through, and claiming court rulings that are not in their favor are politically biased. They hope the international community will see them as a just legal government fighting hard to keep democracy alive. No one is that stupid.

If she is that keen on protecting the law, why does she break it and refuse to answer questions concerning the illegality. Protecting - no way. Using it when it suits and ignoring it when it suits. One of this regimes hallmarks.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Baerboxer

[Mark Thaiford]

You do know that Yingluck and the Shinawatra clan are Chinese Thai ...?

I'm really also trying to work out how Democracy will make taxes go up or how Thais increasing their lot in life will make life more expensive!

I would have thought that taxes would generally stay the same as more and more Thais actually started to pay tax.

This is interesting. In 2011 only 2.3 million people out of a population of 64million paid personal income tax here in Thailand. I doubt the figures today are much different .. but allowing double = 4.6 million from 66 million ..

http://asiancorrespondent.com/64442/will-the-thai-middle-class-rebel-against-populist-policies/

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Of course I know the Shinawatras are Chinese Thai. That does not make them any less hated by the Thai-Chinese Bangkok elite, however. Their sins? Making Thai democracy a mass democracy that actually listened to the needs and demands of the majority of the population - the part of the population the Bangkok elite sees as firmly placed beneath their heels.

How will mass democracy make taxes go up? Well, in a democracy you have to look after your population. Decent health care and decent schooling and decent wages are all things normal people want and if politicians offer that to the people they usually get votes. That not vote buying, however, if any warped minds wants to say so - thats just pure democracy the kind of which has been practised in the West for the past 100 years. Any farang who comes to Thailand and equates a popular political programme with policies on affordable healthcare etc as vote buying has been staying out in the sun too much or else is just a hopelessly deluded tea bagger from back home.

If the needs of the majority population are heard and acted upon Thailand will also slowly become more equal (slooowly) That will mean increased prices all round as people's wages will go up.

[kikoman]

"In case a neutral Prime Minister is appointed, he will have the same powers as a care taker prime minister."

Is she saying a neutral PM can be appointed?

Sent from my phone ...

Again you failed to grasp the correct straw, as the title of the thread answers your question, if it was anything other than to sow uncertainty in the minds of the yellow readers!

Cheers

[bigbamboo]

You do know that Yingluck and the Shinawatra clan are Chinese Thai ...?

I'm really also trying to work out how Democracy will make taxes go up or how Thais increasing their lot in life will make life more expensive!

I would have thought that taxes would generally stay the same as more and more Thais actually started to pay tax.

This is interesting. In 2011 only 2.3 million people out of a population of 64million paid personal income tax here in Thailand. I doubt the figures today are much different .. but allowing double = 4.6 million from 66 million ..

http://asiancorrespondent.com/64442/will-the-thai-middle-class-rebel-against-populist-policies/

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Of course I know the Shinawatras are Chinese Thai. That does not make them any less hated by the Thai-Chinese Bangkok elite, however. Their sins? Making Thai democracy a mass democracy that actually listened to the needs and demands of the majority of the population - the part of the population the Bangkok elite sees as firmly placed beneath their heels.

How will mass democracy make taxes go up? Well, in a democracy you have to look after your population. Decent health care and decent schooling and decent wages are all things normal people want and if politicians offer that to the people they usually get votes. That not vote buying, however, if any warped minds wants to say so - thats just pure democracy the kind of which has been practised in the West for the past 100 years. Any farang who comes to Thailand and equates a popular political programme with policies on affordable healthcare etc as vote buying has been staying out in the sun too much or else is just a hopelessly deluded tea bagger from back home.

If the needs of the majority population are heard and acted upon Thailand will also slowly become more equal (slooowly) That will mean increased prices all round as people's wages will go up.

On the subject of being elite, anyone know how Mr. Thaskin's Elite Card is doing these days?

[laolover88]

Mad Dog 2020 writes:

So I've been reading these types of post about "Protecting the Democracy" for 2 or 3 months.

In the current Thai government the PM is selected by the lower house and then appointed by the King. 74 members of the Senate are selected (appointed) and 125 members of the lower house are selected (appointed).

Of the total number of PM, Senate and House seats; 200 are appointed. Where is the "Democracy"?

It is a bit more complicated than that, but in essence you are right.

The only really comparable situation is the European Parliament and you will be aware of the aggravation that has been caused there by Party List proportional representations

I have been reading and trying to piece together a framework of understanding for what is going on. You may find something cohesive in the following!:

William J. Gedney the great linguistic scholar who worked primarily on Tai-Kradai languages was of the opinion that there were some 80 functioning languages in Thailand. In the places where I live no-one much speaks standard Thai: In Chiang Mai they speak Phasa Nuea, Lanna, Kam Mueang, or even Thai Yuan, In Issan they speak Lao, Phu Thai and Yor. In Phuket they speak Chaiya dialect..and then there is Chinese!

One other way of looking at the fragile composition of Thailand is to read Siam Mapped :

A History of the Geobody of a Nation

by Thongchai Winickakul

where he explores how the tenuous entity that is Thailand was created, by maps and force.

That a country of such diversity has been governable at all is a miracle.

It is hardly any wonder that in the words of the Irish Poet W.B.Yeats: the centre cannot hold : though I doubt the red shirts can be described as in his poem The Second Coming the rough beast slouching to Bangkok to be born!

It might also be helpful if the rigorous system of social control that Thailand operates through the ID card and the Tabian Ban might be looked at in the electoral context

http://thailand.prd.go.th/view_news.php?id=2788&a=2

The Bangkok vote might look quite different were it not for the Tabian Ban rule! And it is interesting that the election was held with sufficient speed for people to be unable to change their Tabian Ban registrations.

You might begin to think that , maybe, some kind of institutionalised. regional , federal, or devolved government is the way forward. ?? Thailand is already acknowledged, in a sense, as an amalgam of the North, North East, East, Central, South, West and Bangkok regions. I read that in Chiang Mai it has been stated that Yingluck has no reason to go to Dubai, she can go to Chiang Mai and the Kingdom of Lanna will protect her!

I dont like rabble rousers and demagogues, who are far in this case from being populists. Unless Thailand wishes to perpetuate its peculiar governing mix of patronage, authoritarianism, oligarchy and elitism, which is anyway probably untenable as the wealth of the Bangkok periphery increases, the only real solution ( much as I am appalled by the Shinawatras and other plutocrats and kleptocrats) is to bite the bullet , resist Suthep, and hold with some form of democracy

[outsider]

Says the Guy from Dubai?

[Exsexyman]

You do know that Yingluck and the Shinawatra clan are Chinese Thai ...?

I'm really also trying to work out how Democracy will make taxes go up or how Thais increasing their lot in life will make life more expensive!

I would have thought that taxes would generally stay the same as more and more Thais actually started to pay tax.

This is interesting. In 2011 only 2.3 million people out of a population of 64million paid personal income tax here in Thailand. I doubt the figures today are much different .. but allowing double = 4.6 million from 66 million ..

http://asiancorrespondent.com/64442/will-the-thai-middle-class-rebel-against-populist-policies/

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Of course I know the Shinawatras are Chinese Thai. That does not make them any less hated by the Thai-Chinese Bangkok elite, however. Their sins? Making Thai democracy a mass democracy that actually listened to the needs and demands of the majority of the population - the part of the population the Bangkok elite sees as firmly placed beneath their heels.

How will mass democracy make taxes go up? Well, in a democracy you have to look after your population. Decent health care and decent schooling and decent wages are all things normal people want and if politicians offer that to the people they usually get votes. That not vote buying, however, if any warped minds wants to say so - thats just pure democracy the kind of which has been practised in the West for the past 100 years. Any farang who comes to Thailand and equates a popular political programme with policies on affordable healthcare etc as vote buying has been staying out in the sun too much or else is just a hopelessly deluded tea bagger from back home.

If the needs of the majority population are heard and acted upon Thailand will also slowly become more equal (slooowly) That will mean increased prices all round as people's wages will go up.

On the subject of being elite, anyone know how Mr. Thaskin's Elite Card is doing these days?

Who is Mr Thaskin? Never heard of him before.

[ikurauni]

My good Thai friends indicated that it will be a long battle. Thaksin wants to continue to control his puppets and I can understand why. I can also understand why anti-Thaksin people want to get rid of the Yingluck administration and remove Thaksin from Thai politics

I don't know anything about the constitutions but when they say they can't break the constitution, they will be stuck. Both sides are using the constitutions and laws to fight. The ultimate victims here are the poor rice farmers. They are the real victims. Suthep is using them wisely to try to be ahead of Yingluck.

I can agree that the Yingluck administration should be sued for negligence of the duty. But the farmers want money more than anything else.

Yingluck said that the government is responsible for the overdue rice payment. She said it because she had to. But she has never indicated real action plans and its payment schedules. This is anther meaningless BS comment and people are fed up with her. The more she does the BS, the more she will lose her popularity in the north.

The rice money has to be borrowed and someone has to cover the expense. Who? Tax payers.

The government will have a huge debt from this failed rice project. Tax money was wasted.

Some of the foreign companies are considering leaving Thailand.

It is ridiculous to see the tax money went to the criminals' pockets and wasted like that. Tax payers are not pleased about it.

What Suthep and the anti government groups want to accomplish here is that they re-educate the brainwashed farmers who believe in Thaksin.

It looks to me that the battle will continue all the way until one can't fight anymore.

The corruption will continue no matter what as long as Thai people are involved but it will be less evil if Thaksin is gone, I assume.

They can talk about the political reform but they need to upgrade the education systems in Thailand.

[maxme]

Hss

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Donnie Brasco]

Why on earth would she stand down...? To set the worst possible precedent ever...? To sanction blatant insurrection...? If she abandons the fragile Democracy which still actually keeps this place going.. it would be the worst thing possible... If a judicial coup is how the opposition intends to do this let it be so.. . it will be the worst outcome possible but is probably where they are loading the dice now... remember that most if not all that faces us now since the insurrection began is a direct result of the oppositions efforts. They had their chance within the government to use the rice scheme and failed Amnesty bill to proceed through legitimate/lawful means to use their billions for political out each with the Public and delegate consolidation and lobbying within the govt..instead they started throwing chairs, beating their chest and empowering a very un-balanced mind to lead the sheep into a mindless attempt at overthrowing an elected government,, and creating/re[lacing it with a circus that is laughable yet has taken lives from all walks of life.. Blue, yellow, red, pink, brown matters not.. crooks and troughies on all sides of the sty..what matters is that those who have been empowered by the people... maintain the duties they were charged with until such a time comes through a democratic process for a change... not at the whim of every tom. dick and harry just because they can't have a piece of the pie at the moment... if she were to stand down now it would give the green light for every wealthy corrupt iconic entity to follow the same path of insurrection to achieve the same outcomes...POWER GRAB... that is not reform.... that is giving the keys to the henhouse to a whole band of wolves.. reset...? Restart...? BUZZ WORDS ...progress is not the intention of the opposition.. they don't want a fully elected Parliament they don't want to be answerable to the people.. it is not in their interests to do so.. they don't want a dilution of wealth they don't want to share the responsibility of a collective voice... whether you like or dislike the sitting PM or not has no bearing on the entity of Democracy... it must be preserved.. and acquiescing to rogue, scoundrel and charlatans is not the way to go..it condones anarchy

It is because of her and her brother that this "democracy" is in such a fragile state.

Opinion and conjecture (and yes, "unseen hands" in both camps) got Thailand into this in the first place.

Democratic reform is slow but it's the fairest path and ultimately the only way to stability.

The alternatives are rather ugly.

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit."

Edited February 10, 2014 by Donnie Brasco

[maxme]

Dunno what's going on but can't edit last post which was an accidental one.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[ballpoint]

Dunno what's going on but can't edit last post which was an accidental one.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I thought it was the most sensible post in the whole thread. Hss indeed.

[DirtFarmer]

Why on earth would she stand down...? To set the worst possible precedent ever...? To sanction blatant insurrection...? If she abandons the fragile Democracy which still actually keeps this place going.. it would be the worst thing possible... If a judicial coup is how the opposition intends to do this let it be so.. . it will be the worst outcome possible but is probably where they are loading the dice now... remember that most if not all that faces us now since the insurrection began is a direct result of the oppositions efforts. They had their chance within the government to use the rice scheme and failed Amnesty bill to proceed through legitimate/lawful means to use their billions for political out each with the Public and delegate consolidation and lobbying within the govt..instead they started throwing chairs, beating their chest and empowering a very un-balanced mind to lead the sheep into a mindless attempt at overthrowing an elected government,, and creating/re[lacing it with a circus that is laughable yet has taken lives from all walks of life.. Blue, yellow, red, pink, brown matters not.. crooks and troughies on all sides of the sty..what matters is that those who have been empowered by the people... maintain the duties they were charged with until such a time comes through a democratic process for a change... not at the whim of every tom. dick and harry just because they can't have a piece of the pie at the moment... if she were to stand down now it would give the green light for every wealthy corrupt iconic entity to follow the same path of insurrection to achieve the same outcomes...POWER GRAB... that is not reform.... that is giving the keys to the henhouse to a whole band of wolves.. reset...? Restart...? BUZZ WORDS ...progress is not the intention of the opposition.. they don't want a fully elected Parliament they don't want to be answerable to the people.. it is not in their interests to do so.. they don't want a dilution of wealth they don't want to share the responsibility of a collective voice... whether you like or dislike the sitting PM or not has no bearing on the entity of Democracy... it must be preserved.. and acquiescing to rogue, scoundrel and charlatans is not the way to go..it condones anarchy

It is because of her and her brother that this "democracy" is in such a fragile state.

Hogwash.. The democracy is threatened by endemic corruption started long before The Thaksin Era and will live on long after... Dems did nothing to strengthen it in fact took it in the opposite direction.. did they not rewrite the Constitution to empower appointing more MP's and electing less...?

such a simple answer you give...blame all the country's woes on Thaksin... corruption was here long before him...decades before... will take generations to eradicate to some extent and will remain a fragile Democracy till that is addressed... from school children up... through education and personal integrity as a model... this is not a fifteen year old problem but will take more than that.. to have any permeable effect...This isn't a Thaksin or Dems problem it is a national scourge that has become the norm...

[rubl]

It is because of her and her brother that this "democracy" is in such a fragile state.

Hogwash.. The democracy is threatened by endemic corruption started long before The Thaksin Era and will live on long after... Dems did nothing to strengthen it in fact took it in the opposite direction.. did they not rewrite the Constitution to empower appointing more MP's and electing less...?

such a simple answer you give...blame all the country's woes on Thaksin... corruption was here long before him...decades before... will take generations to eradicate to some extent and will remain a fragile Democracy till that is addressed... from school children up... through education and personal integrity as a model... this is not a fifteen year old problem but will take more than that.. to have any permeable effect...This isn't a Thaksin or Dems problem it is a national scourge that has become the norm...

Corruption has been around since Christ made little apples some say. That has nothing to do though with the Yingluck government paying special attention to corruption and managing to put Thailand higher up the 'corruption indices'.

BTW it would seem that some switch from blaming Democrats for everything to a more 'reasonably' sounding 'both but the Democrats more so'.

Anyway, caretaker PM Yingluck shuts the option with a resounding 'the law doesn't allow it'. Almost as if the door is still slightly open as the interpretation might not be completely correct. Still Ms. Yingluck will once more be seen as law-abiding, helpful, ready to talk about anything and let her Pheu Thai party members carry on the Thaksin thinker line.

Edited February 10, 2014 by rubl

[Rimmer]

Off topic post removed

[DirtFarmer]

It is because of her and her brother that this "democracy" is in such a fragile state.

Hogwash.. The democracy is threatened by endemic corruption started long before The Thaksin Era and will live on long after... Dems did nothing to strengthen it in fact took it in the opposite direction.. did they not rewrite the Constitution to empower appointing more MP's and electing less...?

such a simple answer you give...blame all the country's woes on Thaksin... corruption was here long before him...decades before... will take generations to eradicate to some extent and will remain a fragile Democracy till that is addressed... from school children up... through education and personal integrity as a model... this is not a fifteen year old problem but will take more than that.. to have any permeable effect...This isn't a Thaksin or Dems problem it is a national scourge that has become the norm...

Corruption has been around since Christ made little apples some say. That has nothing to do though with the Yingluck government paying special attention to corruption and managing to put Thailand higher up the 'corruption indices'.

BTW it would seem that some switch from blaming Democrats for everything to a more 'reasonably' sounding 'both but the Democrats more so'.

Anyway, caretaker PM Yingluck shuts the option with a resounding 'the law doesn't allow it'. Almost as if the door is still slightly open as the interpretation might not be completely correct. Still Ms. Yingluck will once more be seen as law-abiding, helpful, ready to talk about anything and let her Pheu Thai party members carry on the Thaksin thinker line.

Quite correct...and until the opposition whomever they are come up with a way to reach the people, through education, populous as well as delegate outreach it will go on and on regardless of who occupies government house... not sure...but most probably a solution would be to ban all current members of Parliament from public office including the government...and those holding the governmental posts in every branch,,, throw out the EC and the NACC and excise the corruption from the top down.. but it isn't likely that would ever happen from any side...so the best bet is education and until integrity overcomes trend and conspicuous consumption...gonna be a long haul.. without regard to environment or collateral damage.. the current pawns on every side will soon only mar the history books...let us hope the future generation will read them..

Edited February 10, 2014 by DirtFarmer