mania Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) I am wondering as it is that time again & my wife & I fall under the amount earned to be required to file a tax return. I know I must still do FBAR I see in IRS info that we fall under the income that requires one to file. But after having filed for so many years I just want to double check & ask if anyone else has not files any return in previous years. If so did it later cause any problem like when one goes to file for SS benefits? This is what I see in Publication 54 (2013), Tax Guide for U.S. Citizens and Resident Aliens Abroad Filing RequirementsIf you are a U.S. citizen or resident alien, the rules for filing income, estate, and gift tax returns and for paying estimated tax are generally the same whether you are in the United States or abroad. Your income, filing status, and age generally determine whether you must file an income tax return. Generally, you must file a return for 2013 if your gross income from worldwide sources is at least the amount shown for your filing status in the following table. Filing Status* Amount Single $10,000 65 or older $11,500 Head of household $12,850 65 or older $14,350 Qualifying widow(er) $16,100 65 or older $17,300 Married filing jointly $20,000 Not living with spouse at end of year $3,900 One spouse 65 or older $21,200 Both spouses 65 or older $22,400 Married filing separately $3,900 *If you are the dependent of another taxpayer, see the instructions for Form 1040 for more information on whether you must file a return. Edited February 8, 2014 by mania Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogNo1 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I always file my return and do my FBAR every year. I don't know What the penalties for not filing your tax are, but the penalties for not doing an FBAR are extreme! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxout Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 The key word heading that list is generally; it's not all-inclusive. For example, you also must file a 1040 if you had $400 or more of net self-employment income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritrace Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Even though their own rules exempt people from filing, you also know they make up their own rules as they go along. If it were me, I would file regardless. However every case is different. I don't trust the feds by any stretch of the imagination. I get the feeling that the big brother syndrome is just in it's infancy. Options are giving up citizenship. Which nowadays is not so much of a big deal. You could also change your nationality to that which is favored by the feds at this time then apply for citizenship.......Things in this country are all twisted and distorted now. No one knows where they stand. Everything is uncertain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alansiporin Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I say, FILE. I ignored the filing requirement for about 5 years and IRS caught up with me. Lots of interest and penalties plus the cost of an accountant. Learned my lesson and file every year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 File. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA_FARANG Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 No All U.S. citizens must file a tax return. For that matter even non citizens who have income in the U.S. are supposed to file a return. Even if you owe no taxes or your income is below the minimum, That doesn't mean you have to pay tax, but you do have to file a return. Read the section in the beginning of the instructions for filling a return, and it's quite explicit that almost all are required to file a return. It lists the possible reasons that you may not be required to file a return. For example, if you are listed on a Joint tax return filed by someone else you, yourself, probably won't need to file a return. I happen to be below the minimum income requirement, but I still have to file a return every year, and can honestly claim zero tax liability. But I still have to file every year. Yes it's stupid, it's illogical, and costs the U.S. government money to process a return for no tax liability. But why do you assume any government ever does things logically? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post curtklay Posted February 9, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Not true. Most of the replies above seem to be missing that you stated your income is below the minimum required. You are correct that you do not need to file a return if that is the case. That being said, you may want to file anyway. The first year I moved here, I had no income except social security which is not taxable under a set amount. I did not file taxes. The only thing that happened was I got a letter from IRS asking why I didn't file a return. I checked the box marked "income below required level" and sent it back electronically. There were no repercussions. Since then I have filed yearly, even though it is not required, just to put their minds at ease. http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Do-You-Need-to-File-a-Federal-Income-Tax-Return%3F- If you go to the above link, it will ask you several questions. If your answers are as you say, it will tell you: Based on the information provided, you do not need to file a Federal Income Tax return for this year unless you need to receive a refund of payments already made. Edited February 9, 2014 by curtklay 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA_FARANG Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I say, FILE. I ignored the filing requirement for about 5 years and IRS caught up with me. Lots of interest and penalties plus the cost of an accountant. Learned my lesson and file every year. ---------------- Exactly. From 1983 t0 1985 ( mistakenly thought that as I was working in the middle east I didn't have to file a return ... and I didn't file for 3 years. I received a letter from the IRS saying they could not seem to find, my tax returns for those years, and would I please refile for those years? Now, I was lucky. I legitimately could exempt my income for those years, so I ended up owing them nothing with my overseas exemption. I filed a return for those 3 years and claimed no Tax liability for those 3 years. That was accepted by them. But I COULD have been penalized for non filing if they chose to do that, and one of the penalties for non filing CAN be "loss of all exemptions that otherwise can be claimed on any taxable income". I'm not saying they will do that, but it is one of the possible penalties for deliberate non filing of a return to avoid paying taxes you owe, So always file your return, even if you owe no tax liability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtklay Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 It's not about EXEMPTIONS. It's about EARNED INCOME. If your income is above the minimun, you have to file regardless of your exemptions. If your income is below the minimum, you do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleboylost Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Even though their own rules exempt people from filing, you also know they make up their own rules as they go along. If it were me, I would file regardless. However every case is different. I don't trust the feds by any stretch of the imagination. I get the feeling that the big brother syndrome is just in it's infancy. Options are giving up citizenship. Which nowadays is not so much of a big deal. You could also change your nationality to that which is favored by the feds at this time then apply for citizenship.......Things in this country are all twisted and distorted now. No one knows where they stand. Everything is uncertain. Renounce your citizenship and just get a new one? How easy do you think that is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mania Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 Not true. Most of the replies above seem to be missing that you stated your income is below the minimum required. You are correct that you do not need to file a return if that is the case. That being said, you may want to file anyway. The first year I moved here, I had no income except social security which is not taxable under a set amount. I did not file taxes. The only thing that happened was I got a letter from IRS asking why I didn't file a return. I checked the box marked "income below required level" and sent it back electronically. There were no repercussions. Since then I have filed yearly, even though it is not required, just to put their minds at ease. http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Do-You-Need-to-File-a-Federal-Income-Tax-Return%3F- If you go to the above link, it will ask you several questions. If your answers are as you say, it will tell you: Based on the information provided, you do not need to file a Federal Income Tax return for this year unless you need to receive a refund of payments already made. Your post is the reality I see. You are correct when you told others I am below the income required to file. But like you I will probably file to put their minds at ease. They do love paper In some ways it is kind of sad & I'm sure our US forefathers would roll in their graves at the thought. That really we have become so programed/conditioned that we/myself will file even hen we need not. Thanks for your post & yes I had seen that link you posted also. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtklay Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 It could be worse...we could still be British! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el jefe Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Not true. Most of the replies above seem to be missing that you stated your income is below the minimum required. You are correct that you do not need to file a return if that is the case. That being said, you may want to file anyway. The first year I moved here, I had no income except social security which is not taxable under a set amount. I did not file taxes. The only thing that happened was I got a letter from IRS asking why I didn't file a return. I checked the box marked "income below required level" and sent it back electronically. There were no repercussions. Since then I have filed yearly, even though it is not required, just to put their minds at ease. http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Do-You-Need-to-File-a-Federal-Income-Tax-Return%3F- If you go to the above link, it will ask you several questions. If your answers are as you say, it will tell you: Based on the information provided, you do not need to file a Federal Income Tax return for this year unless you need to receive a refund of payments already made. Your post is the reality I see. You are correct when you told others I am below the income required to file. But like you I will probably file to put their minds at ease. They do love paper In some ways it is kind of sad & I'm sure our US forefathers would roll in their graves at the thought. That really we have become so programed/conditioned that we/myself will file even hen we need not. Thanks for your post & yes I had seen that link you posted also. Curtklay is correct and usually there is no requirement to file if your income is below the IRS threshold. However, based on your individual circumstances, you may be required to file to prove your income is below the threshold. For example, if you sell $50,000 worth of stock at a loss you need to file otherwise the IRS will assume you have $50k profit. If you're filing just "to put their minds at ease", you're not. Odds are that no human will ever see your return. Even if you receive a notice from the IRS it will most likely be computer generated. Feel free to file an unnecessary tax return if that puts your mind at ease. Just remember, if you make a mistake on that unnecessary tax return, that too will generate the notices you're trying to avoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mania Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Curtklay is correct and usually there is no requirement to file if your income is below the IRS threshold. However, based on your individual circumstances, you may be required to file to prove your income is below the threshold. For example, if you sell $50,000 worth of stock at a loss you need to file otherwise the IRS will assume you have $50k profit. If you're filing just "to put their minds at ease", you're not. Odds are that no human will ever see your return. Even if you receive a notice from the IRS it will most likely be computer generated. Feel free to file an unnecessary tax return if that puts your mind at ease. Just remember, if you make a mistake on that unnecessary tax return, that too will generate the notices you're trying to avoid. Well yes but I would have to be ignorant to not think I need to file if I sold 50k of anything in a given year.Loss or not I have been self employed for decades & have always done my own taxes so I do understand income vs NO income even when losses are incurred. The "put their minds at ease" was just a quoted ref to Curt's post ( quoted below ) But I agree seems silly to file when not needed to & incur yet another risk for being a citizen of the once greatest nation on earth by not dotting all the i's & crossing all the t's eh? Then again pretty hard to screw up a return that would consist of basically all zero's The first year I moved here, I had no income except social security which is not taxable under a set amount. I did not file taxes. The only thing that happened was I got a letter from IRS asking why I didn't file a return. I checked the box marked "income below required level" and sent it back electronically. There were no repercussions. Since then I have filed yearly, even though it is not required, just to put their minds at ease. Edited February 9, 2014 by mania 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogNo1 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I'm sure that everyone is aware that Britons, Aussies and Kiwis do not need to file in their home country if they work abroad but they do lose some retirement benefits as a result while we retain our claims on SSA and Medicare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbine1125 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 It could be worse...we could still be British! Secretly you all still want to be........why I don't know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rakman Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Even though their own rules exempt people from filing, you also know they make up their own rules as they go along. If it were me, I would file regardless. However every case is different. I don't trust the feds by any stretch of the imagination. I get the feeling that the big brother syndrome is just in it's infancy. Options are giving up citizenship. Which nowadays is not so much of a big deal. You could also change your nationality to that which is favored by the feds at this time then apply for citizenship.......Things in this country are all twisted and distorted now. No one knows where they stand. Everything is uncertain. Renounce your citizenship and just get a new one? How easy do you think that is? Actually it's not that hard, but you have to get a new citizenship somewhere before renouncing the US citizenship or you might be a person without a country. Some countries make it easy to get a citizenship, and have more favorable tax law than the US. The US is the only country in the world that taxes world wide income. That's primarily why many companies have left the US for more favorable locations. About 17 Trillion in corporate wealth has left the US. FBAR and FATCA are making it tougher on expats living abroad. Nearly 3,000 people have renounced their US citizenship or green cards in 2013, up from 1,781 in 2011 and 982 in 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleboylost Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Yes, you can "buy" citizenship in some countries but I believe the minimum investment is around $500,000 and up. It can also take several years to obtain citizenship during which time you may have to reside in the country or at the very least visit on a regular basis. Yes of course it is possible, but like I said not easy. Usually this type of option is only for relatively high net worth individuals or for someone who really wants to live in that particular country. As a side note, if you renounce your US citizenship or hand back your Green Card then you are subject to an exit tax from Uncle Sam. Not sure which is the least hassle going through all that or just filing a tax return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxout Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 "As a side note, if you renounce your US citizenship or hand back your Green Card then you are subject to an exit tax from Uncle Sam." Only if you're relatively wealthy (assets US$2 million or more, or Federal income TAX of about US$150,000/year or more) or don't file a form certifying you've met your Federal tax obligations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleboylost Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 My assumption was that if you could afford to invest upwards of $500,000 to buy citizenship then you probably have a net worth of over $2 million. I can't imagine anyone sinking all their money in to an investment just to get a passport unless you are currently living in some dictatorship and are desperate to leave. The US may be moving away from being the land of the free but for every person that wants to renounce their citizenship there are probably at least a thousand who would be more than willing to take their place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxout Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 And your assumption about those giving up their Green Cards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maphraw Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I say, FILE. I ignored the filing requirement for about 5 years and IRS caught up with me. Lots of interest and penalties plus the cost of an accountant. Learned my lesson and file every year. Could you elaborate a bit more? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Snake Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Already e-filed and should have the money in my account in a week or two. Thank you H&R block for making my life a little bit easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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