Spanish Schengen Visa - New Rule?

[CiaranO]

Well finally got the passport back with the correct visa. It has been a drama but its finally done and all the visas are ready for our trip.

I think the idea of a pinned topic is great.

Thank you to all for their advice and help.

[TheLobster]

This is a list of the required documents requested by TLScontact on behalf of the French Embassy when applying for a Schengen visa as a E.U. citizen's spouse:

Short stay visa application form, dated and signed by applicant (original)
Two recent, developed identity photos
Size 3.5 cm x 4.5 cm, with white background, taken within the last 6 months.
Passport (original)
Passport (copy) (Copies of the passport pages having Schengen visas or stamps)
Old passports (original)
Old passports (copy) (Copies of the passport identity and pages having Schengen visas or stamps)
Marriage certificate legalized by the embassy of the country of the spouse (if the marriage took place in Thailand), or by the competent authority of the country of the spouse (Original)
Marriage certificate legalized by the embassy of the country of the spouse (if the marriage took place in Thailand), or by the competent authority of the country of the spouse (Copy)
Marriage certificate legalized by the embassy of the country of the spouse (if the marriage took place in Thailand), or by the competent authority of the country of the spouse (Translation)
Thai birth certificate (original)
Thai birth certificate (copy)
Thai birth certificate (translation in English or French)
Proof of any change of name or surname of the applicant and their parents (copy)
Name change proof translation (if required, must be in French or in English)
Sworn statement by the European citizen declaring that they take responsibility for the applicant

Seems way OTT with translations of birth certificate and name change proof. Is this typical?

It would be cheaper to pay for a tourist visa but I don't want to be pre-booking flights & hotels every time we want to travel in Europe.

I would like to travel elsewhere in Europe, any suggestions on EU countries where the requirements aren't as OTT?

Also I believe that a Thai Marriage certificate cannot be legalised by the British Embassy but a Ministry of Foreign Affairs approved translation can, is that sufficient normally?

Edited September 4, 2014 by TheLobster

[Donutz]

Officially the process should be free, swiftly and with minimum hassle and thus also minimum documentation. Also note that TLS (and VFS) is an entirely optional external service provider which is not required for either regular or EU/EEA applications.

- VFS / TLS optional for ALL Schengen applications, legal basis Article 17, sub 5 of the EU Community Code on Visa, and explained in the EU handbook for processing visa:

4.3. The service fee
Legal basis: Visa Code, Article 17

As a fundamental principle, a service fee may be charged to an applicant using the facilities of
an external service provider only if the alternative is maintained of direct access to the
consulate incurring the payment of just the visa fee (see point 4.4).
This principle applies to all applicants, whatever the tasks being performed by the external
service provider, including those applicants benefiting from a visa fee waiver, such as family
members of EU and Swiss citizens or categories of persons benefitting from a reduced fee.
These include children from the age of 6 years and under 12 years and persons exempted from
the fee on the basis of a Visa Facilitation Agreement. Therefore, if one of these applicants
decides to use the facilities of an external service provider, the service fee shall be charged.
It is the responsibility of the Member State to ensure that the service fee is proportionate to
the costs incurred by the external service provider, that it duly reflects the services offered and
that it is adapted to local situation.
In this regard, the amount of the service fee has to be compared with the prices usually paid
for similar services in the same country/location. Elements related to local circumstances,
such as the cost of living or the accessibility of services are to be taken into account.
In the case of call centres, the local tariff should be charged for the waiting time before the
applicant is transferred to an operator. Once the applicant has been transferred to the operator,
a service fee shall be charged.
Harmonisation of the service fee is to be addressed in the framework of Local Schengen
Cooperation. Within the same country/location there should not be any significant
discrepancies in the service fee charged to applicants by different external service providers or
by the same service provider working for different Member State consulates.

4.4. Direct access
Maintaining the possibility for visa applicants to lodge their applications directly at the
consulate instead of via an external service provider implies that there should be a genuine
choice between these two possibilities.

You can find the PDFs (EU Schengen Visa rules and two handbooks 1 and 2) here:
http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/visa-policy/index_en.htm

Note that appointments directly at the embassy MUST be granted to the applicant within 2 weeks of the request (article 9 of the EU Schengen Visa code) and the visa itself must be processed as soon as posible (max 15 calenderdays).



2) For EU/EEA applications, the EU handbook has a dedicated chapter on these applications, I'll quote part of it here:

3.1.
Visa Fee
No visa fee can be charged.

3.2.
Service fee in case of outsourcing
of the collection of applications
As family members should not pay any fee when submitting the application, they cannot be obliged to obtain an appointment via a premium call line or via an external provider whose
services are charged to the applicant. Family members must be allowed to lodge their application directly at the consulate without any costs. However, if family members decide
not to make use of their right tolodge their application directly at the consulate but to use the extra services, they should pay for these services. If an appointment system is nevert
heless in place, separate call lines (at ordinary local tariff) to the consulate should be put at the disposal of family members respecting comparable standards to those of "premium lin
es", i.e. the availability of such lines should be of standards comparable to those in place for other categories of applicants and an appointment must be allocated without delay.

3.3.
Granting every facility
Member States shall grant third country family members of EU citizens falling under the Directive every facility to obtain the necessary visa. This notion must be interpreted as
ensuring that Member States take all appropriate measures to ensure fulfilment of the obligations arising out of the right of free movement and afford to such visa applicants the
best conditions to obtain the entry visa.
(..)
3.4.
Processing time
The visas must be issued as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure and the procedures put in place by Member States (with or without outsourcing)
must allow to distinguish between the rights ofa third country national who is a family member of an EU citizen and other third country nationals. The former must be treated more favourably than the
latter. Processing times for a visa application lodged by a third-country national who is a family member of an EU citizen covered by the Directive going beyond 15 days should be
exceptional and duly justified.


3.6.
Supporting documents
In order to prove that the applicant has the right to be issued with an entry visa under the Directive, he must establish that he is a
beneficiary of the Directive. This is done by presenting documents relevant for the purposes ofthe three questions referred to above, i.e.
proving that:
•there is an EU citizen from whom the visa applicant can derive any rights;
•the visa applicant is a family member (e.g. a marriage certificate, birth certificate, proof of dependency, serious health grounds, durability of partnerships ...) and his
identity (passport); and
•the visa applicant accompanies or joins anEU citizen (e.g. a proof that the EU citizen already resides in the host MemberState or a confirmation that the EU
citizen will travel to the host Member State).

It is an established principle of EU law in the area of free movement that visa applicants have the right of choice of the documentary evidence
by which they wish to prove that they are covered by the Directive (i.e. of the family link, dependency ...). Member States may,
however, ask for specific documents (e.g. a marriage certificate as the means of proving the existence of marriage), but
should not refuse other means of proof. For further information in relation to the documentation, see Commission Communication COM (2009) 313 final22
.
3.7.
Burden of proof
The burden of proof applicable in the framework of the visa application under the Directive is twofold:
Firstly, it is up to the visa applicant to prove that he is a beneficiary of the Directive. He must be able to provide documentary evidence foreseen above as he must be able to present
evidence to support his claim. If he fails to provide such evidence, the consulate can conclude that the applicant is not entitled to the specific treatment under the Directive.
Additional documents may not be required regarding the purpose of travel and means of subsistence (e.g. proof of accommodation, proof of cost of travelling),which is reflected in the exemption for family members of EU citizens from filling in the following fields of the visa application form:

Field 20
:"employer and employer's address and telephone number. For students, name and address of educational establishment";
Field 31:
"surname and first name of the inviting person(s) in the Member State(s). If not applicable, name of hotel(s) or temporary a
ccommodation(s) in the Member State(s);
Field 32:
"Name and address of inviting company/organisation";
Field 33:
"Cost of travelling and living during the applicant's stay".

A Member State may require that the relevant documents are translated, notarised or legalised where the original document is drawn up in a language that is not understood by the
authorities of the Member State concerned or if there are doubts as to the authenticity of the document.

3.8.
Refusal to issue a visa
A family member may be refused a visa exclusively on the following grounds:

•the visa applicant failed to demonstrate that he is covered by the Directive on the
basis of the visa application and attached supporting documents under point 3.6
(i.e. it is clear that the reply to at least one of the three questions referred to above
is negative)
;
•the national authorities demonstrate that the visa applicant is a genuine, present
and sufficiently serious threat to public policy, public security or public health; or

•the national authorities demonstrate that there was abuse or fraud.In the latter two cases, the burden of proof lies with the national authorities
as they must beable to present evidence to support their claim that the visa applicant (who has presented
sufficient evidence to attest that he/she meets the criteria in the Directive) should not be issued with an entry visa on grounds of public
policy, public security or public health or on grounds of abuse or fraud.

The authorities must be able to build a convincing case while respecting all the safeguards of the Directive which must be correctly and
lly transposed in national law. The decision refusing the visa application on grounds of public policy, public security or public health or
on grounds of abuse or fraud must be notified in writing, fully justified (e.g. by listing all legal and material aspect taken into account wh
en concluding that the marriage is a marriage of convenience or that the presented birth certificate is fake) and must specify where and
when the appeal can be lodged.

The refusal to issue an entry visa under the conditions of the Directive must be notified in writing, fully justified (e.g. by referring to the
missing evidence), and specify where and when an appeal can be lodged.

More info:
- http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/index_en.htm (also allows you to contact the EU Ombudsman "Solvit" from there).

So there should be no need for registrating or confirming that a marriage or birthcertificate is also known in the country of the other partner, translations and legalisations may be demanded though to confirm documents are ligit. So that's why I advice people in the Schengen Sticky that they bring the (Thai) marriage certificate, get it legalized by the Thai Min. of Foreign Affairs (MoFA), and possibly but not neccesary also at the embassy of the EU spouse. Provide an official translation (in English or an other language that the embassy can read) aswell, also with legalisations. Then you already provided much more then the bare minimum (which is: orginal marriage paper, passports of both partners and something that indicates they will travel together in the EU -which could be anything from a written statement to a ticket or whatever suits you best).

I am told that the Spanish MoFA knows exactly what they can and cannot ask for EU/EEA applications, sadly many embassies do not know or pretend not to know, invovlement by the Spanish MoFA should be succesful (source: an immigration lawyer specialized in EU/EEA cases). Don't know about the French, you could try confirming if they accept what papers you got via mail. If you read the EU directive 2004/38/EC and the handbook, you should know exactly what they can and cannot ask. They may try to deceive you or confuse you (so you give up or say something that allows them to shove a normal visa application down your throat), if so, complain to the French MoFA, EU home affairs, contact Solvit.

Newish EU/Schengen member states are said to handle such applications better: the new EU countries in the east. So you could plan on going to Poland for instance? I think the Dutch are well aware too so you could try with them aswelll. The Belgians are a pain in the *** for normal and EU/EEA applications and their MoFA plays dumb.

Also note that EU memberstates are obligated to inform the public correctly, I'd already question that is the case with the current page by TLS (which the French should check for errors, and over asking is a violation, as is not telling about direct access, maximum time to get an appointment etc.). You may wish to share your experience with the EU Home Affairs or EU delegation in Thailand. If enough people share their (ill) experience things should change. If everbody shuts up and bends over quitely things certainly will not change.

If you bring your passports (your and that of your spouse), a completed Schengen form (fill in "other: joining British/German/,,, spouse to France under Directive 2004/38/EC" for travel purpose), the Thai marriage act legalized by the Thai MoFA, and a translation (also legalized), plus a declaration by you about traveling to France together you should officially be fine. The French may put up resistance though... If you supply legalisation by your own embassy you already provide more then they could legally require so if you do they should be greatful (doubt they will be... judging from the TLS text asking for this while they cannot do so...). You may also request mulitple entry while at it. Explaining in your accompying letter that you intend to travel to France on a joined holiday frequently during the next few years.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Donutz

[TheLobster]

Officially the process should be free, swiftly and with minimum hassle and thus also minimum documentation. Also note that TLS (and VFS) is an entirely optional external service provider which is not required for either regular or EU/EEA applications.

- VFS / TLS optional for ALL Schengen applications, legal basis Article 17, sub 5 of the EU Community Code on Visa, and explained in the EU handbook for processing visa:

4.3. The service fee

Legal basis: Visa Code, Article 17

As a fundamental principle, a service fee may be charged to an applicant using the facilities of

an external service provider only if the alternative is maintained of direct access to the

consulate incurring the payment of just the visa fee (see point 4.4).

This principle applies to all applicants, whatever the tasks being performed by the external

service provider, including those applicants benefiting from a visa fee waiver, such as family

members of EU and Swiss citizens or categories of persons benefitting from a reduced fee.

These include children from the age of 6 years and under 12 years and persons exempted from

the fee on the basis of a Visa Facilitation Agreement. Therefore, if one of these applicants

decides to use the facilities of an external service provider, the service fee shall be charged.

It is the responsibility of the Member State to ensure that the service fee is proportionate to

the costs incurred by the external service provider, that it duly reflects the services offered and

that it is adapted to local situation.

In this regard, the amount of the service fee has to be compared with the prices usually paid

for similar services in the same country/location. Elements related to local circumstances,

such as the cost of living or the accessibility of services are to be taken into account.

In the case of call centres, the local tariff should be charged for the waiting time before the

applicant is transferred to an operator. Once the applicant has been transferred to the operator,

a service fee shall be charged.

Harmonisation of the service fee is to be addressed in the framework of Local Schengen

Cooperation. Within the same country/location there should not be any significant

discrepancies in the service fee charged to applicants by different external service providers or

by the same service provider working for different Member State consulates.

4.4. Direct access

Maintaining the possibility for visa applicants to lodge their applications directly at the

consulate instead of via an external service provider implies that there should be a genuine

choice between these two possibilities.

You can find the PDFs (EU Schengen Visa rules and two handbooks 1 and 2) here:

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/visa-policy/index_en.htm

Note that appointments directly at the embassy MUST be granted to the applicant within 2 weeks of the request (article 9 of the EU Schengen Visa code) and the visa itself must be processed as soon as posible (max 15 calenderdays).

2) For EU/EEA applications, the EU handbook has a dedicated chapter on these applications, I'll quote part of it here:

3.1.

Visa Fee

No visa fee can be charged.

3.2.

Service fee in case of outsourcing

of the collection of applications

As family members should not pay any fee when submitting the application, they cannot be obliged to obtain an appointment via a premium call line or via an external provider whose

services are charged to the applicant. Family members must be allowed to lodge their application directly at the consulate without any costs. However, if family members decide

not to make use of their right tolodge their application directly at the consulate but to use the extra services, they should pay for these services. If an appointment system is nevert

heless in place, separate call lines (at ordinary local tariff) to the consulate should be put at the disposal of family members respecting comparable standards to those of "premium lin

es", i.e. the availability of such lines should be of standards comparable to those in place for other categories of applicants and an appointment must be allocated without delay.

3.3.

Granting every facility

Member States shall grant third country family members of EU citizens falling under the Directive every facility to obtain the necessary visa. This notion must be interpreted as

ensuring that Member States take all appropriate measures to ensure fulfilment of the obligations arising out of the right of free movement and afford to such visa applicants the

best conditions to obtain the entry visa.

(..)

3.4.

Processing time

The visas must be issued as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure and the procedures put in place by Member States (with or without outsourcing)

must allow to distinguish between the rights ofa third country national who is a family member of an EU citizen and other third country nationals. The former must be treated more favourably than the

latter. Processing times for a visa application lodged by a third-country national who is a family member of an EU citizen covered by the Directive going beyond 15 days should be

exceptional and duly justified.

3.6.

Supporting documents

In order to prove that the applicant has the right to be issued with an entry visa under the Directive, he must establish that he is a

beneficiary of the Directive. This is done by presenting documents relevant for the purposes ofthe three questions referred to above, i.e.

proving that:

•there is an EU citizen from whom the visa applicant can derive any rights;

•the visa applicant is a family member (e.g. a marriage certificate, birth certificate, proof of dependency, serious health grounds, durability of partnerships ...) and his

identity (passport); and

•the visa applicant accompanies or joins anEU citizen (e.g. a proof that the EU citizen already resides in the host MemberState or a confirmation that the EU

citizen will travel to the host Member State).

It is an established principle of EU law in the area of free movement that visa applicants have the right of choice of the documentary evidence

by which they wish to prove that they are covered by the Directive (i.e. of the family link, dependency ...). Member States may,

however, ask for specific documents (e.g. a marriage certificate as the means of proving the existence of marriage), but

should not refuse other means of proof. For further information in relation to the documentation, see Commission Communication COM (2009) 313 final22

.

3.7.

Burden of proof

The burden of proof applicable in the framework of the visa application under the Directive is twofold:

Firstly, it is up to the visa applicant to prove that he is a beneficiary of the Directive. He must be able to provide documentary evidence foreseen above as he must be able to present

evidence to support his claim. If he fails to provide such evidence, the consulate can conclude that the applicant is not entitled to the specific treatment under the Directive.

Additional documents may not be required regarding the purpose of travel and means of subsistence (e.g. proof of accommodation, proof of cost of travelling),which is reflected in the exemption for family members of EU citizens from filling in the following fields of the visa application form:

Field 20

:"employer and employer's address and telephone number. For students, name and address of educational establishment";

Field 31:

"surname and first name of the inviting person(s) in the Member State(s). If not applicable, name of hotel(s) or temporary a

ccommodation(s) in the Member State(s);

Field 32:

"Name and address of inviting company/organisation";

Field 33:

"Cost of travelling and living during the applicant's stay".

A Member State may require that the relevant documents are translated, notarised or legalised where the original document is drawn up in a language that is not understood by the

authorities of the Member State concerned or if there are doubts as to the authenticity of the document.

3.8.

Refusal to issue a visa

A family member may be refused a visa exclusively on the following grounds:

•the visa applicant failed to demonstrate that he is covered by the Directive on the

basis of the visa application and attached supporting documents under point 3.6

(i.e. it is clear that the reply to at least one of the three questions referred to above

is negative)

;

•the national authorities demonstrate that the visa applicant is a genuine, present

and sufficiently serious threat to public policy, public security or public health; or

•the national authorities demonstrate that there was abuse or fraud.In the latter two cases, the burden of proof lies with the national authorities

as they must beable to present evidence to support their claim that the visa applicant (who has presented

sufficient evidence to attest that he/she meets the criteria in the Directive) should not be issued with an entry visa on grounds of public

policy, public security or public health or on grounds of abuse or fraud.

The authorities must be able to build a convincing case while respecting all the safeguards of the Directive which must be correctly and

lly transposed in national law. The decision refusing the visa application on grounds of public policy, public security or public health or

on grounds of abuse or fraud must be notified in writing, fully justified (e.g. by listing all legal and material aspect taken into account wh

en concluding that the marriage is a marriage of convenience or that the presented birth certificate is fake) and must specify where and

when the appeal can be lodged.

The refusal to issue an entry visa under the conditions of the Directive must be notified in writing, fully justified (e.g. by referring to the

missing evidence), and specify where and when an appeal can be lodged.

More info:

- http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/index_en.htm (also allows you to contact the EU Ombudsman "Solvit" from there).

So there should be no need for registrating or confirming that a marriage or birthcertificate is also known in the country of the other partner, translations and legalisations may be demanded though to confirm documents are ligit. So that's why I advice people in the Schengen Sticky that they bring the (Thai) marriage certificate, get it legalized by the Thai Min. of Foreign Affairs (MoFA), and possibly but not neccesary also at the embassy of the EU spouse. Provide an official translation (in English or an other language that the embassy can read) aswell, also with legalisations. Then you already provided much more then the bare minimum (which is: orginal marriage paper, passports of both partners and something that indicates they will travel together in the EU -which could be anything from a written statement to a ticket or whatever suits you best).

I am told that the Spanish MoFA knows exactly what they can and cannot ask for EU/EEA applications, sadly many embassies do not know or pretend not to know, invovlement by the Spanish MoFA should be succesful (source: an immigration lawyer specialized in EU/EEA cases). Don't know about the French, you could try confirming if they accept what papers you got via mail. If you read the EU directive 2004/38/EC and the handbook, you should know exactly what they can and cannot ask. They may try to deceive you or confuse you (so you give up or say something that allows them to shove a normal visa application down your throat), if so, complain to the French MoFA, EU home affairs, contact Solvit.

Newish EU/Schengen member states are said to handle such applications better: the new EU countries in the east. So you could plan on going to Poland for instance? I think the Dutch are well aware too so you could try with them aswelll. The Belgians are a pain in the *** for normal and EU/EEA applications and their MoFA plays dumb.

Also note that EU memberstates are obligated to inform the public correctly, I'd already question that is the case with the current page by TLS (which the French should check for errors, and over asking is a violation, as is not telling about direct access, maximum time to get an appointment etc.). You may wish to share your experience with the EU Home Affairs or EU delegation in Thailand. If enough people share their (ill) experience things should change. If everbody shuts up and bends over quitely things certainly will not change.

If you bring your passports (your and that of your spouse), a completed Schengen form (fill in "other: joining British/German/,,, spouse to France under Directive 2004/38/EC" for travel purpose), the Thai marriage act legalized by the Thai MoFA, and a translation (also legalized), plus a declaration by you about traveling to France together you should officially be fine. The French may put up resistance though... If you supply legalisation by your own embassy you already provide more then they could legally require so if you do they should be greatful (doubt they will be... judging from the TLS text asking for this while they cannot do so...). You may also request mulitple entry while at it. Explaining in your accompying letter that you intend to travel to France on a joined holiday frequently during the next few years.

Thank you very much for your contribution Donutz .

If I had time I would take these guys on but I had to travel to Bangkok from Samui to apply for the UK visa and was hoping to get a 'free' Schengen visa arranged in the same trip.

As far as I can see the best thing seems to be to phone Embassies direct to book an appointment, VFS and TLS seem to be in the business of generating revenue which the respective countries/embassies gain from?

[Donutz]

You're welcome.

Phone or mail the embassy for an appointment. TLS and VFS are there to unburden an embassy. Embassies to tend to push (sometimes in questionable ways) people to go to these optional service providers as it saves embassies time and therefor also money. Money that the applicant ends up paying as a service fee to TLS/VFS staff.

Staff who are -no disrespect meant- only there to put all those documents in an envelope and forward it to the embassy. They sometimes may comment on missing or too many documents, and can advice (but not force) people about the documents they wish to forward with the application. Sadly these staff members are not always knowledgable about the visa rules, let alone the more complicated ones that fall under the EU/EEA directive on Freedom of Movement. They will most likely check the boxes on the form or cheatsheet to see if an application is complete. You do not provide a copy of a passport (lazy embassy staff does nto wish to copy the passports themselves??) , they may ask you to use a paid service to copy your passport.. extra cash in their pockets. They may suggest a VIP lane (more cash for them).

Embassies who do not work with VFS/TLS via an application centre may still use them for appointments so that the embassy can save on staff taking care of scheduling appointments, then you pay anywhere between 250-800 baht for them to make an appointment were as you are entitled to request an appointment yourselves (costing you a phone call or mail to get an appointment within 2 weeks).

At the embassy staff may sometimes also not know the rules or pretend not to know them (reasons: lazy, ill informed, discouragement, saving them time and money if you provide certain things such as copies, easier to process the application if somebody hands in more then the absolute minimum required, ...., who knows?). Sadly there are accounts here on TVF and elsewhere about ^&&%$* embassy staff (locally hired staff and/or actual officials from the embassy) who throw up a hassle or outright decline/violate ones rights. I do not know how friendly, competent and efficient the French staff is. If they do throw a hassle, consider going to an other embassy. My guess is that you can already get a pretty good idea about their service level from the way the answer your request for a direct appointment and how they answer 1-2 easy questions.

Hopefully you will report your experience(s) back here. That way others can benefit from it aswell. Such as this very thread is a good indication the Spanish might not be the most easiest, welcoming ones (ignoring or violating EU rights/treaties !)...

Edit: sometimes it may be more time/financially/mood efficient to put up with requests the embassy has even if officially you may not be obligated to do so. But if you have to bend over backwards and/or they violate the rules (excesively) it may be time to call in the cavelry (Solvit, MoFA, ...) and/or go somewhere else (hopefully still reporting the experience with authorities who should make note of it and perhaps see to it that the embassy changes it's ways)..

Edited September 4, 2014 by Donutz

[makescents]

I digged around some more and a immigration lawyer confirms that all you need is a copy of the passport of the EU citizen and the marriage certificated (legalized by the Thai authorities -the Thai ministery of foreign affairs can do this-), if need be it can be be translated by an approved translator in a language that the embassy accepts (Spanish should be okay, English should be just fine too?). And ofcourse a properly filled in Schengen Visa Application form (mind the * which do not need to be filled in for those applying as a family member of a EU citizen exercising their rights of free movement).

Registrating your marriage certificate in your EU home country is not required for the visa application, nor do you need any stamps from your own embassy.

So the claims made in the newsupdate are in conflict with Regulation (EC) No 810/2009 (Visa Code)

Edit: If you want written confirmation, contact the EU for advice:

https://ec.europa.eu/citizensrights/css/unprotected/public/webform.signpost?newLocale=en

They can also ask for proof that you will be either travelling with your spouse (air tickets) or that you are in the destination country and they are travelling to meet you.

[TheLobster]

They can also ask for proof that you will be either travelling with your spouse (air tickets) or that you are in the destination country and they are travelling to meet you.

We are traveling together and have booked tickets/hotels etc as a couple (as we are). It is my understanding that this is not required for a Schengen visa for the spouse of an EU citizen but we did it anyway.

[Donutz]

They can also ask for proof that you will be either travelling with your spouse (air tickets) or that you are in the destination country and they are travelling to meet you.

You are required (it's mandatory) to show that the non EU family member will either be joining or traveling with the EU national. However HOW you proof this is entirely up to the applicant. They cannot demand tickets for transport (plane, ferry, ...) , hotel bookings etc. You may shows these but you can also simply hand a short statement declaring that you as the EU spouse confirm that you will be traveling together.

We are traveling together and have booked tickets/hotels etc as a couple (as we are). It is my understanding that this is not required for a Schengen visa for the spouse of an EU citizen but we did it anyway.

Correct. If you have booked hotels and/or transport (unpaid or easily cancelled incase they give you a load of *&%^ ?)you can ofcourse show those but they can never demand these, as the Handbook clearly indicates (for those who don't find Declaration 2004/38/EC itself clear enough).

[Arkady]

I got a Spanish issued Schengen visa for my wife two years ago. I was told that it was not possible to apply at the embassy and that I had to apply via VFS. When we got there the staff at first tried to deny there were any special rights for EU family members. Then they accepted it was true but continued to asked for an employment letter, itinerary, travel tickets and kept on trying to get us to apply the standard way, until I just about lost my temper (I did lose my temper in the German Embassy when they pulled the same stunt a few years ago). Finally they agreed they didn't need that stuff but charge me a fee which they said was not a visa fee to the embassy but a "service charge" to VFS. All the while they kept on feigning ignorance in an effort to get us to relinquish our rights, while later revealing that they had been lying.

As far as the marriage certificate was concerned, I had already been forced by the evil Thai female staffers at the Swiss embassy to get my MFA legalised translation of the marriage certificate further notarised by the British Embassy the year before and they were quite happy with that?

I was thinking of taking my wife on a short trip to Barcelona this year. Now I am reconsidering the idea.

[Donutz]

That sort of thing does not exactly encourage cross channel tourism (me and my wife are not going to the UK for the same BS, costs and hassle).

Or sent a quick mail to the embassy -list the papers you will or win't be brining aswell?- and see how they reply this time. They should now properly abide the rule of direct access. Leaving you with the Buffalo Khi of then wishing to see evidence that your marriage is acknowledged by your own country.

[Arkady]

I'll see if I can conjure up something useful and forward it to the mods (theoldgit).

The Belgians have corrected their website within 48 hours of my complaint with the Belgian MoFA.

They added this to their visa webpages (NL, FR and ENG):

"In compliance with Article 17.5 of the Community Visa Code, the Embassy maintains the possibility for all applicants to lodge their applications directly at the Embassy. In that case an appointment must be requested by email to [email protected]. In conformity with Article 9.2, the appointment shall, as a rule, take place within a period of two weeks from the date it was requested."

Source:

http://countries.diplomatie.belgium.be/en/thailand/travel_belgium/visa_belgium/

So complaing to the right person or department high enough up the chain DOES help. If people here do so with all Schengen embassies and MoFA's you can get the authorities to grant you your rights.

Good work Donutz. Aren't the embassies also required to see family members of EU citz without an appointment?

[Donutz]

As far as I know they can ask anybody to make an appointment in advance, aslong as they process the application as soon as possible. With maxim deadlines: let the applicant apply within 2 weeks of the request and issue the visa within 15 calenderdays AND inform applicants about these deadlines (which many embassies don't):

The handbook says:

3.2. Appointment system
Legal basis: Visa Code, Article 9(2) and (3)

3.2.1. Should applicants be required to obtain an appointment for submitting an
application?
Applicants may be required to obtain an appointment before submitting an application – either
via an in-house system or an appointment system run by an external service provider.
In justified cases of urgency, an appointment should be given immediately or direct access for
submitting the application should be allowed.
Cases of urgency are situations where the visa could not have been applied earlier for reasons
that could not have been foreseen by the applicant.

For the procedural safeguards in relation to family members of an EU and Swiss citizen, see
Part III.

3.2.2. What is the maximum deadline for obtaining an appointment?
Legal basis: Visa Code, Article 9(2)
The deadlines for obtaining an appointment shall as a rule not exceed two weeks. The
capacity of Member States' consulates to handle visa applications should be adapted so that
this deadline is complied with even during peak seasons.

3.2.3. Can "fast track" procedures for the submission of applications be established?
A consulate may decide to establish a "fast track" procedure for the submission of
applications in order to receive certain categories of applicants.
For the procedural safeguards in relation to family members of an EU and Swiss citizen, see
Part III.

Section III on EU/EEA applications is already quoted above, so I will only repeat the relevant part:

If an appointment system is nevertheless in place, separate call lines (at ordinary local tariff)
to the consulate should be put at the disposal of family members respecting comparable
standards to those of "premium lines", i.e. the availability of such lines should be of standards
comparable to those in place for other categories of applicants and an appointment must be
allocated without delay.

(...)

3.4. Processing time
The visas must be issued as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure

In theory it should be a walk in the park: give them a call/mail, get an appoinment (if such a system is in place, they may mave this requirement but are not obligligated to do so), get your appointment as soon as possible, within 2 weeks at the latest, get the visa as soon as possible, not later then 15 calenderdays. Bringing only a handfull of documents: marriage paper, an official translation in a language the embassy can read (optionally but preferable having both the orginal and translation certified by the Thai MoFA), a complete filled in application form, passport of the Thai spouse, passport (copy) of the EU national, passport photo's for the visa sticker, some sort of evidence such as a written statement by the EU spouse that the couple will travel together. That's the theory atleast, were you should smoothly sail through the whole process in a no time with minimal documentation. The reality for both Schengen and UK EU/EEA applications is unfortunately a lot less smooth then this... It may be more efficient to put up with some of the silly requests and inform authorities higher up about these silly requests, we can only hope that eventually all EU states change their ways...

If you ask me the Schengen and UK application forms should have a seperate section/page for EU/EEA applications, clearly listing the requirements/steps... The current forms aren't really that clear and info on the ebassy/immigration websites often is below the required norms.

[daveyravey]

great reading thread. I have now decided to apply through the Spanish embassy. <deleted> to VFS out of principle.

Donutz thanks for all this great info.