End of Automotive Manufacturing in Australia

[y2k]

I thought Holden decided to quit first.

I stand corrected - Ford announced first but said they would stop in 88 years time. In reality they will stop in 2-3 years time roughly the same as Holden and Toyota.

No. Ford said they will close their plants in 2016.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-23/ford-to-close-geelong-and-broadmeadows-plants/4707960

you should really stick to facts that are easily obtained rather than talk utter nonsense.

<utter>2016 is 2-3 years time</utter>

Does that make you feel better?

[Spoonman]

I remember the first cars into production: the Toyota Tiara. People either fell about laughing or swore never to buy anything Japanese because of the war. Of course it evolved into the Corolla, arguably one of the most successful cars in history.

All the big companies had assembly plants in Australia . Sad day to see manufacturing go

Corona, Not Corolla.

[samran]

This is what happens when wages and payroll taxes and other taxes and other costs get too high.

Ford is re-opening some plants and even building some new ones in the US, and Toyota has several plants in the US building cars and pickups. They are expanding them.

I'm just listening to the story on TV right now, one interesting politician said that the unions had a big part to do with this, pushing up costs and demanding too many benefits, so it's not the government to blame entirely.

I wish you guys would learn basic economics.

When you've only got a market of 22 million people and up until recently 3 car manufacturers trying to produce and sell into this market then you aren't getting any economies if scale.

Add to that most of the components were coming from overseas, then you might as well build the bloody things overseas anyway.

Add on top of that no export market (no one wants a bogan ute outside of OZ) and the cars you do export are hindered by a high AUD then it all adds up to an industry which was never viable.

What made it sustainable for so long were government subsidies which over the year propped up the industry. These have been progressively taken away since the Button Review.

Nevertheless the feeble minded who seen to populate these threads swallow the usual line of high taxes and some sort of Union conspiracy. All in the while they are implicitly supporting corporate handouts and business welfare which ended up adding $4000 to the cost of an Australian built car.

[Spoonman]

This is what happens when wages and payroll taxes and other taxes and other costs get too high.

Ford is re-opening some plants and even building some new ones in the US, and Toyota has several plants in the US building cars and pickups. They are expanding them.

I'm just listening to the story on TV right now, one interesting politician said that the unions had a big part to do with this, pushing up costs and demanding too many benefits, so it's not the government to blame entirely.

<snip>

Add on top of that no export market (no one wants a bogan ute outside of OZ) and the cars you do export are hindered by a high AUD then it all adds up to an industry which was never viable.

<snip>

Holden exported an average 15,000 vehicle per year for 50 years, and nearly 5 million engines since 1981.

Seems someone liked the Holden products, shame they could not capitalize on this.

[samran]

This is what happens when wages and payroll taxes and other taxes and other costs get too high.

Ford is re-opening some plants and even building some new ones in the US, and Toyota has several plants in the US building cars and pickups. They are expanding them.

I'm just listening to the story on TV right now, one interesting politician said that the unions had a big part to do with this, pushing up costs and demanding too many benefits, so it's not the government to blame entirely.

<snip>

Add on top of that no export market (no one wants a bogan ute outside of OZ) and the cars you do export are hindered by a high AUD then it all adds up to an industry which was never viable.

<snip>

Holden exported an average 15,000 vehicle per year for 50 years, and nearly 5 million engines since 1981.

Seems someone liked the Holden products, shame they could not capitalize on this.

Yep. To a country also known as New Zealand. Another huge market of 4 million. I think some US backwater states have more people.

[Credo]

The country should have gone for some high-end car model or engine design or some other niche market. Of course, that would requiring the run-of-the-mill car manufacturers to do something different.

Sorry for Australia's loss, but I very much doubt it is the end of Australia as we know it. They will recover. It's a country with a lot going for it.

[chooka]

When Holden announced that were closing up shop so-called experts said it was because Holden didn't export enough like Ford does. Then Ford announced they would close up shop too. The experts said Toyota would continue because if they closed up then the Australian Motor Industry would be dead. Toyota has now made that announcement.

You do know Ford pulled up stumps in OZ before Holden did don't you.

Guess that is the end of Bathurst.

[chooka]

No surprise as the Aussie car makers were never going to compete in the world market.

Manufacturing in Australia is a no no.

The paperwork and unionisation will always mean the costs are too high.

You even need certification to be a house painter in Oz and you know what they say...

If you can pee you can paint.

Regards

Jay...ex Perth WA.

Well at least they still make Vegemite in Australia even if it is now owned by the yanks. Do we still produce our own food?

[Spoonman]

<snip>

Add on top of that no export market (no one wants a bogan ute outside of OZ) and the cars you do export are hindered by a high AUD then it all adds up to an industry which was never viable.

<snip>

Holden exported an average 15,000 vehicle per year for 50 years, and nearly 5 million engines since 1981.

Seems someone liked the Holden products, shame they could not capitalize on this.

Yep. To a country also known as New Zealand. Another huge market of 4 million. I think some US backwater states have more people.

You really should educate yourself rather than vomiting up your ill informed posts.

Holden Vehicle Exports.

]In managing the country's largest and longest-running automotive export program, Holden has now sent more than 747,000 vehicles around the world in five decades.

The first exports of FJ Holden sedans to New Zealand in 1954 were quickly followed by shipments of completely knocked down (CKD) packs for offshore assembly. By 1966 Holden vehicles and CKD packs were being shipped to more than 60 markets.

The HQ model range released in 1971 proved a hugely successful export. In 1973, shipments reached a record 41,181 units, representing 25 per cent of Holden's total annual production.

In the 1980s, while exports of Commodore and long wheelbase derivatives continued, the emphasis changed from vehicles to engines. Holden returned to volume vehicle exports in 1998 with the commencement of a major program involving shipments of left hand drive versions of VT Commodores to the Middle East and Brazil.

By 2004 the vehicle export tally of 52,372 units had eclipsed the single-year record set by the HQ. In the same year, Holden, in conjunction with Holden Special Vehicles (HSV), commenced shipments to the United Kingdom (HSV GTO).

In 2005, an all-time record number of 60,518 Holden sedans, utes and coupes in right- or left-hand-drive configuration were exported to every continent except Antarctica. They were sold under the GM brands of Chevrolet (Brazil, Middle East, Thailand, Malaysia and South Africa), Pontiac (United States), Buick (China), GM Daewoo (South Korea), Vauxhall (United Kingdom) and Holden (New Zealand and Fiji).

The Middle East continued to be the strongest export market for Holden in 2006, with sales of more than 31,000 Chevrolet Lumina (Commodore) and Chevrolet Caprice sedans buoyed by the success of the all-new VE and WM ranges. The luxury Caprice accounted for 64 per cent of these sales.

In 2006, Commodore models were exported to Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Oman, Lebanon, United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Kuwait, Yemen, Jordan, New Zealand, Brazil, North America, Fiji, Brunei and South Africa. Statesman/Caprice models were exported to Middle East regions and New Zealand.

The Pontiac GTO, based on the Holden Monaro, was exported to the United States until production ceased in June 2006. Holden exports to the United States recommenced late in 2007 when the VE Commodore SS took its place among GM high performance flagship vehicles as the Pontiac G8.

Engine Exports

The first shipments of Holden Family II four-cylinder engines, manufactured in Port Melbourne, were sent to the United Kingdom in 1981.

By 1983, markets also included West Germany, South Africa and New Zealand. Exports to South Korea commenced in 1987 and the one millionth export engine milestone was reached in 1988.

By the time the two millionth export engine was produced in 1994, more than $1 million in export revenue was being generated every working day, servicing a customer base that included South Korea, Taiwan, Indonesia, Germany, India, Egypt, South Africa and the UK.

The three millionth four cylinder export engine was shipped out in 1999, by which time Holden engine and component exports had generated more than $3 billion in export revenue.

In 2003 Holden began exporting Global V6 engines from its new $400 million engine plant at Port Melbourne. The plant is capable of producing 900 engines a day or 240,000 engines a year.

The four millionth Holden engine, a 2.8 litre Turbo V6 bound for Sweden and the engine bay of a Saab 9-3 Aero, was exported in November 2005.

In 2006, Holden exported 211,000 V6 and Family II engines. Export destinations included Italy, Germany, Sweden, South Korea and Thailand (Global V6); South Korea, China, Thailand and South Africa (Family II).

In 2007, Holden announced plans to export two versions of the Global V6 engine to China. They will power the new Buick Park Avenue being built by Shanghai General Motors.

http://www.holden.com.au/corporate/exports

[sceadugenga]

There's a lot of blame being allocated to the "strong Australian dollar".

Which is not good news for those living overseas on fixed incomes, or tourists for that matter.

[Spoonman]

When Holden announced that were closing up shop so-called experts said it was because Holden didn't export enough like Ford does. Then Ford announced they would close up shop too. The experts said Toyota would continue because if they closed up then the Australian Motor Industry would be dead. Toyota has now made that announcement.

You do know Ford pulled up stumps in OZ before Holden did don't you.

Guess that is the end of Bathurst.

Nope.

[JSixpack]

The country should have gone for some high-end car model or engine design or some other niche market. Of course, that would requiring the run-of-the-mill car manufacturers to do something different.

[chooka]

When Holden announced that were closing up shop so-called experts said it was because Holden didn't export enough like Ford does. Then Ford announced they would close up shop too. The experts said Toyota would continue because if they closed up then the Australian Motor Industry would be dead. Toyota has now made that announcement.

You do know Ford pulled up stumps in OZ before Holden did don't you.

Guess that is the end of Bathurst.

Nope.

Without Holdens and fords what are they going to be racing, the imported Thai vios?

[timber]

During WW 2 the president told the big car manufactures that would stop producting cars and produce war machines.

Tanks, air planes, etc. To lose this amount of industry can't be good for the countries future. Existing infrasture can

be used to produce many types products, and the employees are in place.

[ignis]

End of Automotive Manufacturing in Australia, wonder if that should be as we know it ? PETROL engine cars....

a quote: simply, an aluminium-air battery uses an aluminium plate as the anode....... electric... Solar.. + + +

Renault/Nissan reckon by 2020 there cars will do 250+ Miles on a single charge, other have cars that do 100 miles now...

others that say future cars will only need to fill up with distilled water coming by 2018

we are lead to believe the world is fast running out of oil, so with NO petrol or the bit left at very high cost, who will want petrol/gas guzzling cars anyway.

Even here in Thailand look how many new 20+ km per lt cars are on the roads, and still loads of new ones on red plates, many are replacement of the car that did 6 - 9 km per lt.. notice people are even replacing there beloved diesel Pickups and 4x4 Toyotas with these new 20+ KM per lt cars.

so will soon be X million lose there jobs as petrol stations close ?

[Rorri]

CaptHaddock, on 11 Feb 2014 - 09:14, said:

Don't the Aussies have their own car manufacturer?

They did have, but in 1931, GM took them over and became General Motors Holden.

[simple1]

End of Automotive Manufacturing in Australia, wonder if that should be as we know it ? PETROL engine cars....

a quote: simply, an aluminium-air battery uses an aluminium plate as the anode....... electric... Solar.. + + +

Renault/Nissan reckon by 2020 there cars will do 250+ Miles on a single charge, other have cars that do 100 miles now...

others that say future cars will only need to fill up with distilled water coming by 2018

we are lead to believe the world is fast running out of oil, so with NO petrol or the bit left at very high cost, who will want petrol/gas guzzling cars anyway.

Even here in Thailand look how many new 20+ km per lt cars are on the roads, and still loads of new ones on red plates, many are replacement of the car that did 6 - 9 km per lt.. notice people are even replacing there beloved diesel Pickups and 4x4 Toyotas with these new 20+ KM per lt cars.

so will soon be X million lose there jobs as petrol stations close ?

Think you will find the proposition of Peak Oil, at least for the immediate future, has been debunked

[samran]

<snip>

Add on top of that no export market (no one wants a bogan ute outside of OZ) and the cars you do export are hindered by a high AUD then it all adds up to an industry which was never viable.

<snip>

Holden exported an average 15,000 vehicle per year for 50 years, and nearly 5 million engines since 1981.

Seems someone liked the Holden products, shame they could not capitalize on this.

Yep. To a country also known as New Zealand. Another huge market of 4 million. I think some US backwater states have more people.

You really should educate yourself rather than vomiting up your ill informed posts.

Holden Vehicle Exports.

]In managing the country's largest and longest-running automotive export program, Holden has now sent more than 747,000 vehicles around the world in five decades.

The first exports of FJ Holden sedans to New Zealand in 1954 were quickly followed by shipments of completely knocked down (CKD) packs for offshore assembly. By 1966 Holden vehicles and CKD packs were being shipped to more than 60 markets.

The HQ model range released in 1971 proved a hugely successful export. In 1973, shipments reached a record 41,181 units, representing 25 per cent of Holden's total annual production.

In the 1980s, while exports of Commodore and long wheelbase derivatives continued, the emphasis changed from vehicles to engines. Holden returned to volume vehicle exports in 1998 with the commencement of a major program involving shipments of left hand drive versions of VT Commodores to the Middle East and Brazil.

By 2004 the vehicle export tally of 52,372 units had eclipsed the single-year record set by the HQ. In the same year, Holden, in conjunction with Holden Special Vehicles (HSV), commenced shipments to the United Kingdom (HSV GTO).

In 2005, an all-time record number of 60,518 Holden sedans, utes and coupes in right- or left-hand-drive configuration were exported to every continent except Antarctica. They were sold under the GM brands of Chevrolet (Brazil, Middle East, Thailand, Malaysia and South Africa), Pontiac (United States), Buick (China), GM Daewoo (South Korea), Vauxhall (United Kingdom) and Holden (New Zealand and Fiji).

The Middle East continued to be the strongest export market for Holden in 2006, with sales of more than 31,000 Chevrolet Lumina (Commodore) and Chevrolet Caprice sedans buoyed by the success of the all-new VE and WM ranges. The luxury Caprice accounted for 64 per cent of these sales.

In 2006, Commodore models were exported to Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Oman, Lebanon, United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Kuwait, Yemen, Jordan, New Zealand, Brazil, North America, Fiji, Brunei and South Africa. Statesman/Caprice models were exported to Middle East regions and New Zealand.

The Pontiac GTO, based on the Holden Monaro, was exported to the United States until production ceased in June 2006. Holden exports to the United States recommenced late in 2007 when the VE Commodore SS took its place among GM high performance flagship vehicles as the Pontiac G8.

Engine Exports

The first shipments of Holden Family II four-cylinder engines, manufactured in Port Melbourne, were sent to the United Kingdom in 1981.

By 1983, markets also included West Germany, South Africa and New Zealand. Exports to South Korea commenced in 1987 and the one millionth export engine milestone was reached in 1988.

By the time the two millionth export engine was produced in 1994, more than $1 million in export revenue was being generated every working day, servicing a customer base that included South Korea, Taiwan, Indonesia, Germany, India, Egypt, South Africa and the UK.

The three millionth four cylinder export engine was shipped out in 1999, by which time Holden engine and component exports had generated more than $3 billion in export revenue.

In 2003 Holden began exporting Global V6 engines from its new $400 million engine plant at Port Melbourne. The plant is capable of producing 900 engines a day or 240,000 engines a year.

The four millionth Holden engine, a 2.8 litre Turbo V6 bound for Sweden and the engine bay of a Saab 9-3 Aero, was exported in November 2005.

In 2006, Holden exported 211,000 V6 and Family II engines. Export destinations included Italy, Germany, Sweden, South Korea and Thailand (Global V6); South Korea, China, Thailand and South Africa (Family II).

In 2007, Holden announced plans to export two versions of the Global V6 engine to China. They will power the new Buick Park Avenue being built by Shanghai General Motors.

http://www.holden.com.au/corporate/exports

Handily sourced from the Holden website I see.

I've written corporate propaganda like this in my time.

I also note most of the export glory days were in the pre high AUD era, so you are looking at ancient history.

Fact of the matter is, if they were so bloody successful with their exports, why did he company fall over? Answer: cause the gravy ran out. I'll give Joe Hockey his due here, he told the car companies to shove it when they came back for an extra handout.

Doesn't take away from my original point however. Neo con cheerleaders blaming the unions is a good distraction for when the companies need to line up and ask for more corporate welfare from governments.

They are worse than dole bludgers but have the added advantage of being able to get you guys all misty eyed about 'manufacturing in Australia'. A win win for them, a lose lose for Australian consumers who have to put up with overpriced cars which clearly not enough people wanted.

Where Australia will do well is in the manufacturing of component for vehicles, and I think that will continue on.

So that merry go round has stopped and good riddance I say to the corporate handout merchants.

[samran]

When Holden announced that were closing up shop so-called experts said it was because Holden didn't export enough like Ford does. Then Ford announced they would close up shop too. The experts said Toyota would continue because if they closed up then the Australian Motor Industry would be dead. Toyota has now made that announcement.

I am sure those 'experts' are looking at some other 'causes' as we speak..lol

End of government pork, pure and simple.

[Spoonman]

You do know Ford pulled up stumps in OZ before Holden did don't you.

Guess that is the end of Bathurst.

Nope.

Without Holdens and fords what are they going to be racing, the imported Thai vios?

Mercedes and Nissan are already running and Volvo will be on the track soon.

Due to the COTY chassis any body can be put on top and as both Ford and Holden are still going to be selling vehicles in Australia if they choose to they can drop one of those bodies on.

[NeverSure]

Many auto manufacturers from different countries have moved into China where there is a huge market and costs are low.

------------------

Ford’s (F) China sales surged 53% in January, as the Big Three automaker continues to see stronger demand in the world’s biggest auto market.

Ford said Wednesday it sold a record 94,466 wholesale vehicles last month, compared to 61,567 in January 2013. Passenger cars from the company’s Changan Ford Automobile joint venture led the way with 62% growth. Jiangling Motors Corporation commercial vehicles were up 28%.

Sales of the Ford Focus hit 36,385 vehicles, an 8% increase over the year-ago month. The Ford Mondeo, a local version of the Fusion mid-size sedan, recorded sales growth of 51%.

Ford beat Japanese rivals Toyota and Honda (HMC) last year with a total of 935,813 vehicles sold, up 49% over 2012. The No. 2 U.S. car maker has benefited from a refreshed lineup in China, while Japanese manufacturers suffered from boycotts early in 2013.

Volkswagen became the top foreign car maker in China with sales of 3.27 million vehicles in 2013. General Motors (GM) sold 3.16 million units, good for second place.

Earlier this week, GM also reported record China sales for January. The company said its sales jumped 12% to 348,061 vehicles amid an uptick in Buick demand.

Link

[ABCer]

A very sad piece of news.

But it was clearly in the coming. Shouldn't come as a shock.

Objectively speaking three major factors brought this to an end.

Economics. Trade Unions. Government.

But Australians are very resilient, practical and crafty people.

Building (assembling) cars for foreign companies is not the way to go.

I hope and wish to see they find better ways to build a good life on.

Just watch out for the above three.

[Neurath]

> This is what happens when wages and payroll taxes and other taxes and other costs get too high.

Crap. Ii is Globalism which is killing manufacturing in the West.

A race to the bottom.

All it takes for wages to be considered "too high" in one place is for them to be lower in another. And when it's lower in another place Capital will move there - increasingly seamlessly too because nearly all international economic effort concentrates on eliminating restrictions on it's movement. Labor simply doesn't have the mobility of Capital and cannot simply move to where it can get a higher rate of return. Visas see to that, as do the bonds that people have to place: a bond capital does not have at all. Labor gets stuck in a country - all the better to ensure that a greater amount of the value of that labor can go to capital.

[marcusd]

> This is what happens when wages and payroll taxes and other taxes and other costs get too high.

Crap. Ii is Globalism which is killing manufacturing in the West.

A race to the bottom.

Rubbish! I runbusinesses in oz. All people want is cheap cheap and cheaper.

When people are ytold no,pay more and get less they scream.

They are their own worst enemies wanting things cheaper.

If it means coming from is cheaper,they don't care whose job it is

That's it in a nutshell.

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

[marcusd]

Has anyone heard the addage that when gold rises the dollar falls.

When China was rising something had to fall.

The 3% who own 85% are never effected.

Australia sold the farm years ago and still are, what little is left.

My mother used, to work for Bonds. Do you remember them? Underwear, sox, singlets, etc.

One day she came home and said they are closing tomorrow and have never been seen since.

Australia needs to start producing or she is lost forever.

"My mother used, to work for Bonds. Do you remember them?"

Sure do,.. they used to have a factory on Pittwater Rd I think it was (Brookvale/Dee Why) that had a giant sized icon of the Aussie bloke wearing the Chesty Bonds singlet. At least I think that's where it was... either way.. I'm showing my age now eh?

now they are manufactured in China

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

[OZEMADE]

The unions wanted more cash from the workers in union fees.

The unions wanted more cash and less hours for the workers.

The car manufacturers wanted to make a profit, but in the end could not because of the high wages and outrageous working conditions the unions forced on the manufacturers.

In the end Mitsubishi finished up. Well you would think that would have been a hint to the unions and the workers.

The Australian Government had been getting squeezed for cash every year to prop up the failing car industry, another hint.

Ford stated even with Gov assistance they could not afford to make cars in Australia.

Yingluck comes to Australia and part of Ford are now produced in Thailand with the Thailand plant expanding.

Holden GM announce they are closing down and they also announced they could not afford to produce cars here.

A change in Government comes along, the unions think they will ride rough shot over them, bad mistake.

The union tell their Toyota employees not to take a backward step, not to take a drop in wages and not to give up any of their work conditions.

Toyota then announced they will be finished production by 2017 and it did not matter if the Australian Gov gave them a hand out, they stated they don't want it and are going anyhow.

The latest is Qantas approached the Australian Gov for a handout today. They were bluntly told there will be no handouts, to work out their own profit and losses.

Qantas will now probably be all maintained overseas.

Ahhh yes, the good old unions have helped the workers once again. There is no end in sight of closures at the moment.

[samran]

The unions wanted more cash from the workers in union fees.

The unions wanted more cash and less hours for the workers.

The car manufacturers wanted to make a profit, but in the end could not because of the high wages and outrageous working conditions the unions forced on the manufacturers.

In the end Mitsubishi finished up. Well you would think that would have been a hint to the unions and the workers.

The Australian Government had been getting squeezed for cash every year to prop up the failing car industry, another hint.

Ford stated even with Gov assistance they could not afford to make cars in Australia.

Yingluck comes to Australia and part of Ford are now produced in Thailand with the Thailand plant expanding.

Holden GM announce they are closing down and they also announced they could not afford to produce cars here.

A change in Government comes along, the unions think they will ride rough shot over them, bad mistake.

The union tell their Toyota employees not to take a backward step, not to take a drop in wages and not to give up any of their work conditions.

Toyota then announced they will be finished production by 2017 and it did not matter if the Australian Gov gave them a hand out, they stated they don't want it and are going anyhow.

The latest is Qantas approached the Australian Gov for a handout today. They were bluntly told there will be no handouts, to work out their own profit and losses.

Qantas will now probably be all maintained overseas.

Ahhh yes, the good old unions have helped the workers once again. There is no end in sight of closures at the moment.

of course, had nothing to do with high tariffs which used to prop them up getting lowered.

I don't really care if Qantas is based in timbuktoo.

Of course the attacks on the unions are to be expected. You have to blame someone when an entire industry dies on your watch.

[Spoonman]

Mitsubishi finished up cause their product was crap. the 380 was actually a decent thing but by then they had lost all consumer confidence.

At the end of the day the consumer is to blame for the demise of the auto industry in OZ as they simply were not buying the vehicles built there and instead opting for imported models.

[Thongkorn]

Don't the Aussies have their own car manufacturer?

yes they do it is called holden

GM Holden Ltd, commonly designated Holden The company was founded in 1856 as a saddlery manufacturer. In 1908 it moved into the automotive field, before becoming a subsidiary of the United States-based general motors(GM) in 1931. After becoming a subsidiary of GM, the company was named General Motors-Holden's Ltd, becoming Holden Ltd in 1998 the current name was adopted in 2005.

looks like you have gone the same way the UK car makers went, now we produce cars for Toyota.

[ignis]

Don't the Aussies have their own car manufacturer?

yes they do it is called holden

GM Holden Ltd, commonly designated Holden The company was founded in 1856 as a saddlery manufacturer. In 1908 it moved into the automotive field, before becoming a subsidiary of the United States-based general motors(GM) in 1931. After becoming a subsidiary of GM, the company was named General Motors-Holden's Ltd, becoming Holden Ltd in 1998 the current name was adopted in 2005.

looks like you have gone the same way the UK car makers went, now we produce cars for Toyota.

Since Tata took/bought Jag and Landrover the UK sales have jumped up year on year, now triple what it was every quarter.. Nissan and Honda both have production lines for years in UK as well as Toyota