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[elzach]

Let's resurrect this topic. All of us are aware now that MC charges more dollars, euro, pounds etc for baht vs Visa. But most have brushed it off. I have looked it up many times and consistently MC charges 55-75 basis points over Visa (0.55-0.75%).

To make it plain, on 1000 baht this past Monday for example, MC will charge you USD 31.05, Visa will charge you USD 30.88. On a modest let's say 30,000 baht expense/month x 12, you will pay an extra $67 a year, just for the "privilege" of using Mastercard over Visa. Basically you are paying an extra annual fee if you use MC abroad.

Btw, this is all IN ADDITION to whatever extra Foreign Transaction Fee your bank imposes.

I'm tempted to contact the Fed, OCC, NY State Banking Dept over this. Anyone with me? Keep in mind that MC and Visa are "prior offenders", having settled multimillion dollar charges on FTF back in 2002-2003 I believe. I think the regulators might be more inclined to research into it if several people send them an inquiry at the same time.

Before you call anyone you might want to recheck your numbers. I just looked up the Visa and Mastercard exchange rates for 23 Jun/this past Monday and they were Bt32.38/USD for Visa and Bt32.21/USD for Mastercard. Nothing close to those approx Bt31/USD ratess you gave....where did you get your exchange rates? Maybe you are adding in some fee...like a "card-issuing bank" foreign transaction percentage fee and/or a flat fee per foreign transaction that effectively lowers the exchange rate. And if you are adding any local ATM fee like Thai banks/AEON charge on foreign cards, well, that's not Visa/MC charging the fee. And hopefully you didn't accept a local ATM offer to use their Bank Rate, Home Rate, or some other warm and fuzzy name which is nothing more than a Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) rate set by that local bank which will probably be around 3 to 4% lower than the full Visa/MC exchange rate.

I agree the MC rate is "usually" a little lower than Visa based on my experience...by "usually" I mean something over 50% of the time...whether it 51%, 60%, etc., I couldn't say...but there are quite a few times when the MC rate is higher than Visa. Now the Visa 32.38 and MC 32.21 rates I gave above is their exchange rates "before" any foreign transaction fee is applied/not absorbed by your "card-issuing" bank. If you want to complain to a federal agency about card exchange rates maybe instead complain about the high foreign transaction fees "many banks apply" to their Visa/MC logo credit and debit cards which effectively lowers the exchange rate---that's where the real bankster activity is occurring.

Pib, that's exactly what I said, MC exchange rate for 1000 bht @ 32.21 Bht/USD = $31.05, Visa exchange rate for 1000 bht @ 32.38 bht/USD = $30.88. I just wanted to give a dollar figure to "basis points" and annualize it to show that it's substantial.

And it's not usually, it's EVERY time I check MC vs Visa.

Yes the FTF is another issue and that's up to banks. I use a Capital One debit card for purchases that charges no FTF. I use a Scottrade MC card for cash withdrawals that charges 1% FTF.

[Pib]

OK...understand...I mistook your dollars numbers as exchange rate.

When it comes to the exchange rate comparison between Visa and MC I expect the great majority of folks do not take that into consideration when signing up for a bank account/credit card account the great majority of the time a person will be using their card in their home country where no currency exchange occurs....and they may be looking more for low interest rate, cash back/points rewards programs, etc. Now, some of the people who travel or are expats will take exchange rate into consideration when signing for cards, but I expect even the majority of frequent travelers/expats first focus on does the card have a foreign transaction fee or not. And just from the many different posts on TV regarding cards fees, some people are simply clueless about what foreign transaction fees and exchange rate their card gives. But for people like you and me we do know there is usually a significant difference in the Visa and Mastercard exchange rate and we take that into consideration when deciding on which account/card to apply for.

All things considered equal like cash back/rewards programs, interest rates, foreign transaction fees, etc., a person is usually better off "exchange rate-wise" using a Visa card compared to a Mastercard. But hey, Mastercard knows exactly how its exchange rate compares to Visa's (and vice versa)....it's their very conscious business decision...they don't hide what their exchange rates are so they can't be considered deceptive.

[MrWorldwide]

My CITI card is a Visa card - I pay no FTF and get a rate that I'm happy with. If I use a CITI ATM I dont even get charged the ATM fee - cant recommend it highly enough.

[JimGant]

Let's resurrect this topic. All of us are aware now that MC charges more dollars, euro, pounds etc for baht vs Visa.

Their choice. Maybe they build in a higher spread when dealing with all minor currencies, not just the baht...... Dunno. But, yeah, for sure you do better using Visa plastic -- about 14 satang better, on average (to the USD), based on numbers I ran a few years back, covering several months.

However, when it comes to cards issued in Euros or GBPs, MC is often the preferred card over Visa for trips to the US (per several travel blogs). Look at the numbers for June 17 and 18. A MC denominated in GBPs gets 1.6986 USDs per GBP on June 17th, vs. 1.6941 USDs for a Visa Europe card. For 18 June, it's 1.6997 for MC, 1.6936 for Visa Europe. Looked similar on 19 June, too. So, when it comes to major currency trading pairs, Visa isn't necessarily the outright winner. In fact, per the blogs, MC would seem to be....

Now, if you used those GBP cards to buy baht, you'd do better on June 17 with Visa Europe (54.7375 baht per GBP) than with MC (54.6621), even tho' MC does better with USD FX. No great math step here -- both MC and Visa use the USD/THB trading pair, not a GBP/THB pair. Thus, your GBP crosses the Atlantic, and receives 1.6986 dollars, for MC -- or only 1.6941 for Visa. BUT -- per the online Visa and MC daily charts -- a USD fetches 32.18 baht for MC -- but 32.31 for Visa. So, even tho' you get more dollars per GBP with MC, by the time it gets wickered and dickered in the USD/THB sausage machines of the MC and Visa networks, Visa comes out ahead -- at least on 17 June.

On 18 June, the 1.6997 MC vs. 1.6936 for Visa differential is just too wide to give Visa the superior rate for baht after the sausage mill in New York. MC gets 54.8336 baht to the GBP, while Visa gets only 54.7375 (table rates for USD/THB on 18 June were 32.26 for MC, 32.32 for Visa).

A few years back on this forum, a Brit maintained his MC was superior to his Visa in obtaining baht. The above shows this can happen -- sometimes.

As Pib says, all these numbers are out in the open, so absolutely no deception taking place. So don't waste your time writing anyone.

[elzach]

Let's resurrect this topic. All of us are aware now that MC charges more dollars, euro, pounds etc for baht vs Visa.

Their choice. Maybe they build in a higher spread when dealing with all minor currencies, not just the baht...... Dunno. But, yeah, for sure you do better using Visa plastic -- about 14 satang better, on average (to the USD), based on numbers I ran a few years back, covering several months.

However, when it comes to cards issued in Euros or GBPs, MC is often the preferred card over Visa for trips to the US (per several travel blogs). Look at the numbers for June 17 and 18. A MC denominated in GBPs gets 1.6986 USDs per GBP on June 17th, vs. 1.6941 USDs for a Visa Europe card. For 18 June, it's 1.6997 for MC, 1.6936 for Visa Europe. Looked similar on 19 June, too. So, when it comes to major currency trading pairs, Visa isn't necessarily the outright winner. In fact, per the blogs, MC would seem to be....

Now, if you used those GBP cards to buy baht, you'd do better on June 17 with Visa Europe (54.7375 baht per GBP) than with MC (54.6621), even tho' MC does better with USD FX. No great math step here -- both MC and Visa use the USD/THB trading pair, not a GBP/THB pair. Thus, your GBP crosses the Atlantic, and receives 1.6986 dollars, for MC -- or only 1.6941 for Visa. BUT -- per the online Visa and MC daily charts -- a USD fetches 32.18 baht for MC -- but 32.31 for Visa. So, even tho' you get more dollars per GBP with MC, by the time it gets wickered and dickered in the USD/THB sausage machines of the MC and Visa networks, Visa comes out ahead -- at least on 17 June.

On 18 June, the 1.6997 MC vs. 1.6936 for Visa differential is just too wide to give Visa the superior rate for baht after the sausage mill in New York. MC gets 54.8336 baht to the GBP, while Visa gets only 54.7375 (table rates for USD/THB on 18 June were 32.26 for MC, 32.32 for Visa).

A few years back on this forum, a Brit maintained his MC was superior to his Visa in obtaining baht. The above shows this can happen -- sometimes.

As Pib says, all these numbers are out in the open, so absolutely no deception taking place. So don't waste your time writing anyone.

Good points from both you and Pib.

[Langsuan Man]

My CITI card is a Visa card - I pay no FTF and get a rate that I'm happy with. If I use a CITI ATM I dont even get charged the ATM fee - cant recommend it highly enough.

Only good if you live in Bangkok and have access to the Citi ATM's. Not recommended for the rest of the country. Compare the exchange rate that Citi gives you with other sources and you might not be so happy

[MrWorldwide]

My CITI card is a Visa card - I pay no FTF and get a rate that I'm happy with. If I use a CITI ATM I dont even get charged the ATM fee - cant recommend it highly enough.

Only good if you live in Bangkok and have access to the Citi ATM's. Not recommended for the rest of the country. Compare the exchange rate that Citi gives you with other sources and you might not be so happy

Happy to hear about the 'other sources', but they need to be based in Australia and readily available to individuals. By far the best 'rate' I'm getting at the moment is via transfers to my KT FCD account, but this is a thread about ATM fees. My other Australian bank, CBA, charges me 25AUD for withdrawing 20K baht from a Thai ATM and I get the VISA exchange rate on the day - I know from my online banking records that I'm ahead with CITI.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The Citibank ATMs in Bangkok do charge the Thai bank foreign ATM card withdrawal fee against U.S.-based VISA and MC-logo debit cards. No free lunch there.

I don't have a Citi U.S. account, so I can't speak from personal experience on using a U.S. Citi card at Citi ATMs in Bangkok, as far as whether that would draw the Thai bank foreign card 150 or 180 baht withdrawal fee.

But from the Citi U.S. website, for their regular, non-CitiGold accounts, they clearly say they also do on their end charge a 3% foreign currency fee for using the Citi U.S. card outside the U.S. both for ATM withdrawals and purchases. And their own added flat fee for using any non-Citi ATMs.

The fees for Citi accounts based in other countries, of course, may be different.

[MrWorldwide]

Then its just as well my card was issued by CITIBANK AUSTRALIA. There is an extensive thread on their 'fee free banking' on the whirlpool forums in Australia but board rules prohibit me from linking to it - the thread confirms that CITI Australia customers continue to get cash from ATMs all over the world with no FTF. No idea how long this will last and I suspect that it was part of CITI's marketing push to get their share of a very lucrative market - whatever the case, it's fantastic.

FWIW, I was thrilled this morning to be able to pull 30K baht from the same Krungsi ATM which gave me grief a couple of days back. Still had to pay 180 baht for the privilege but that blow is softened when I can walk away with that much cash from a single visit to the ATM - thanks to those who mentioned Krungsi earlier in this thread.

[Langsuan Man]

Then its just as well my card was issued by CITIBANK AUSTRALIA. There is an extensive thread on their 'fee free banking' on the whirlpool forums in Australia but board rules prohibit me from linking to it - the thread confirms that CITI Australia customers continue to get cash from ATMs all over the world with no FTF. No idea how long this will last and I suspect that it was part of CITI's marketing push to get their share of a very lucrative market - whatever the case, it's fantastic.

FWIW, I was thrilled this morning to be able to pull 30K baht from the same Krungsi ATM which gave me grief a couple of days back. Still had to pay 180 baht for the privilege but that blow is softened when I can walk away with that much cash from a single visit to the ATM - thanks to those who mentioned Krungsi earlier in this thread.

Next time use a TMB machine and you will also get a 30K pull but the fee will only be 150 THB (unless they have raised it since 1 June)

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

the thread confirms that CITI Australia customers continue to get cash from ATMs all over the world with no FTF.

....

FWIW, I was thrilled this morning to be able to pull 30K baht from the same Krungsi ATM which gave me grief a couple of days back. Still had to pay 180 baht for the privilege...

Now if you could just get an Australia debit card that has no FCF and also reimburses the Thai bank 150/180 baht withdrawal fees, then you'd be matching what's available from the best (from an expat customer perspective) of the U.S. banks, such as Charles Schwab, State Farm, etc etc.

Edited June 28, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[MrWorldwide]

Great, but I'm not a US Citizen - unless Charles Schwab are accepting applications from Australians living in Thailand I'm pretty much stuck with what I've got.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Now if you could just get an Australia debit card...

I clearly wasn't suggesting above that an Australian try to open a Schwab account, although I'm not sure that you couldn't.

But I was posing the question:

Aren't there ANY banks in Australia that offer no foreign currency fee charges AND reimburse other banks' ATM fees???

[MrWorldwide]

Not that I'm aware of, and the people in the aforementioned thread were very thorough (read cheap charlie backpackers ) in their quest to find the best option for overseas travel, I think Heritage Building Society may have tried to get in on the act but they dont have a single ATM of their own anywhere outside Australia - even if CITI only have the Asoke ATMs and a branch out at Ratchada (from memory), it beats a card with zero representation.

[kinmaew]

This month I tried taking out money using an AEON machine in Bangkok only to be given the message "Your card is not supported". It's a VISA card from AUS and never had a problem with any of the other Thai bank ATM's on prior trips. Any other Aussies out there or anyone who received this same message? I tried all accounts: Credit initially as that is what I have chosen before at other Thai banks and it worked, then tried savings and checking, got same message.

[Langsuan Man]

This month I tried taking out money using an AEON machine in Bangkok only to be given the message "Your card is not supported". It's a VISA card from AUS and never had a problem with any of the other Thai bank ATM's on prior trips. Any other Aussies out there or anyone who received this same message? I tried all accounts: Credit initially as that is what I have chosen before at other Thai banks and it worked, then tried savings and checking, got same message.

Because AEON is not a bank but is a credit card / loan company that operates ATM machines for the convenience of their customers

At one time foreigners benefited from those machines since they did not charge the 150 Baht fee that Thai banks charged, but eventually the owners decided that it was of little benefit to them to continue to give foreigners a free lunch. So they adopted the fee, which is why this thread has not had any new posts in three months

[Pib]

This month I tried taking out money using an AEON machine in Bangkok only to be given the message "Your card is not supported". It's a VISA card from AUS and never had a problem with any of the other Thai bank ATM's on prior trips. Any other Aussies out there or anyone who received this same message? I tried all accounts: Credit initially as that is what I have chosen before at other Thai banks and it worked, then tried savings and checking, got same message.

Have you tried your card in a Thai bank ATM such as Bangkok Bank, K-bank, etc., on "this trip?"

If those ATMs reject the card also then it's probably just your card-issuing bank not allowing the foreign transaction since you didn't notify them of your trip to Thailand.

[DrAzTiK]

Hello guys,

I live in Thailand and I have a Neteller mastercard.

http://www.neteller.com/us/personal-us/get-a-prepaid-card-us/

What would be the best way to withdwraw without paying exchange rates and/or or 150 bath fee ?

[Pib]

Hello guys,

I live in Thailand and I have a Neteller mastercard.

http://www.neteller.com/us/personal-us/get-a-prepaid-card-us/

What would be the best way to withdwraw without paying exchange rates and/or or 150 bath fee ?

At the website you provided under Fees it says a foreign transaction fee of 2.95%. Which means you would get the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate minus a 2.95% fee...lets just say 3%. Thai bank/AEON ATMs would still apply their Bt150-180 foreign card fee. So you would have those two fees of 3% plus Bt150-180 per ATM withdrawal. I see the Neteller card even charges several percent to deposit/charge up the card. Like many prepaid cards, it's heavy with fees.

Foreign Exchange

For all transactions involving currency conversion, NETELLER adds 2.95% to the average daily interbank market rate* published by a third-party foreign currency data provider. NETELLER retains this amount as a foreign exchange processing fee to protect against exchange rate fluctuations.

[DrAzTiK]

Ok so there is really no way to avoid at least the 150 bath fee now.

What about company specialised in exchange currency like Super Rich? maybe they can offer better service.

[Pib]

Ok so there is really no way to avoid at least the 150 bath fee now.

What about company specialised in exchange currency like Super Rich? maybe they can offer better service.

Super Rich deals with cash exchanges...you hand them a handful of cash and they hand you back cash in a different currency. But first you need to have that handful of cash which means you have to carry cash into Thailand, use an ATM, do a funds transfer, etc., to get that handful of cash...and as already discussed there are fees in doing ATM withdrawals and funds transfers.

If you want to get cash out of an ATM with no fees you need to open a bank account in your home country which provides no foreign transaction fee cards which also reimburse ATM fees...like for Americans the Schwab debit card is one often mentioned. Varies from country to country as to what banks offer such cards.

[4evermaat]

If netTeller has direct deposit withdraw capability, you can withdraw to your own bank or possibly bangkok bank usa new york branch, uk branch, or a different branch that you can do direct deposit (ach/etf).

Heck, it might be cheaper to wire withdraw to thai bank as even $400 usd withdraw via atm would be 16.50-18.50 usd. With the debit card, you get immediacy, and you certainly pay for it.

Edited September 20, 2014 by 4evermaat

[balo]

Hello guys,

I live in Thailand and I have a Neteller mastercard.

http://www.neteller.com/us/personal-us/get-a-prepaid-card-us/

What would be the best way to withdwraw without paying exchange rates and/or or 150 bath fee ?

Let me guess, you play online poker in Thailand and use Neteller card to cash out ?

I know several people doing this in Thailand and there's no way you can escape the fees . Neteller is a good card to use when you can transfer all your winnings and cash out .

What I do is always cash out minimum 20k and just forget about the fees.

[DrAzTiK]

Humm yes, I guess I need to make a big cash out to limit the fee. ( but I think the maximum with can cash out with neteller is 500$, 15000 bath)

[Xircal]

I've been looking at this issue myself since I visit Thailand quite regularly.

Looking at Bangkok bank's fees at http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/WebServices/HelpCenter/Pages/FeeTable.aspx I note that the fee for Mastercard withdrawals is 180 Baht while ordinary ATM cards only incur a 150 Baht fee. The odd thing here is that Bangkok bank ATMs at least always read my card as a Mastercard. Consequently, I always see the higher figure on the screen when I withdraw funds.

Somebody posted here that Bank of Ayutthaya a.k.a. Krungsi bank allows you to withdraw 30,000 Baht, but unfortunately for me at least, this doesn't help since my own bank limits cash withdrawals to €500 for foreign transactions.

Also, my bank charges 1% of the total amount which includes the 180 Baht withdrawal fee which is an added irritation. When you add the two together and then calculate the exchange rate, you lose about two Baht compared with the exchange rate for cash transactions.

The most preferential rates seem to apply to cash transactions since the exchange rate is higher and there aren't any fees at all. But there's the obvious danger of having to carry large sums of money around.

For expats living in Thailand, you might want to look at renting a safe deposit box and just loading it up with your own currency; exchanging cash as and when you need it. At Bangkok bank, you can rent a small one for an annual fee of 900 Baht. You'll find details in the link I've included above.

[DrAzTiK]

Humm but how can I desposit the safety box with my own currency (€) if I live in THailand?. Also it would invovle to live near the bank where your box is located and in the end, be forced to pay exhange rates.

It looks like some banks are more relax about fee. In France, Boursorama (online bank) looks quite interessing. (only2% and no fee except the 180 bath)

[quickdraw2014]

Great advice on going into the bank with your passport. I wish I'd known this before, but at least I only paid the ATM fee once. So many tourists must pay this over and over again without knowing how to circumvent the fee. Thanks for the advice! I now just need to find somewhere to buy or repair my MacBook Pro charger in Bangkok – it's proving much harder than I first thought! The iStudio are charging 2,700B, which is much more than I'd pay at home

[55Jay]

Great advice on going into the bank with your passport. I wish I'd known this before, but at least I only paid the ATM fee once. So many tourists must pay this over and over again without knowing how to circumvent the fee. Thanks for the advice! I now just need to find somewhere to buy or repair my MacBook Pro charger in Bangkok – it's proving much harder than I first thought! The iStudio are charging 2,700B, which is much more than I'd pay at home

Not all Thai banks will accept a debit card for over the counter cash withdrawals.

If you try a branch, make sure you make it for more than their max ATM limit, else you may just get pointed outside to the ATM machine - so what's the point?

Far as credit cards go, reports on this thread seem to indicate they are widely accepted for over the counter cash withdrawals, as long as you know what the terms and conditions are for the card you are using. Some have had success pre-loading their card for the amount of the anticipated withdrawal.

Others, such as the Pib Credit Card Cash Advance Process ^TM do the cash advance over the counter then go home and transfer that amount onto the card, to negate cash advance fees and interest rates.

Chok Dee in your efforts, and let us know how you get on with it.

[JDGRUEN]

Bangkok Bank only charges 50 Baht on my American Express Bluebird Debit/ATM card. And Bluebird only charges $2.50 --- both non refundable. Bluebird also does not charge a International Transaction fee. However, only $2000.00 can go through the card each month. The Bluebird Card can be loaded from your regular bank ATM Card done on line.

Forgot to say: The bluebird card withdraw at Bangkok Bank had a top exchange rate - better than my MasterCard endorsed ATM cards.

Go check out the comprehensive offerings of the Bluebird card... bluebird.com

Edited November 30, 2014 by JDGRUEN

[grant rankin]

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