nope.

Same same but different name. Political Semantics !

Denial is not a river in Africa

Just because you want it to be true, doesn't mean it is.

nope.

so, you mean, the dem is pdrs's? May be that was why the dem's MPs had to resign en masses to join their street protests.

They resigned.

They left.

They formed a new different grouping [one i do not like as it happens]

Different being the key word.

They are not the same.

Ok, you win. No big deal. Let the Siamese twin ague over who owned who.

It said the move would make the role of village headman and kamnan or sub-district chief redundant

Probably means their kickbacks and commissions are in jeopardy. Why on earth do you need these hangers on anyway?

Because they can be bought to intimidate 'their flock' to vote a certain way.

This is the cradle of patronage and corruption. It is the systemic condition that has attained crisis level since before 2006.

A dysfunctional country with a feudalistic structure of governance cannot endure the new requirements of globalization and/or being part of regional economic community. Corruption, vote buying (and selling of it) have been the norm in Thailand since elections became a cosmetic character of the country.

All the polls of the past 5 years are consistent in reporting that 65-70 % of Thais are OK with corruption as long as it benefits them.

No PDRC self appointed ruling form of government will reform the venal DNA of the country. They are for the most part the Bangkokian elite that truly believe the farmers and peasants are not qualified to make political decisions; hence, their self appointment .

They were successful in their appeal at first because Thais, (in their traditional sense of respect of superior knowledge and authority) attach prestige to the titles of Doctor, Professor, Academic, etc. A superficial way to gauge character. So, a title is not a guarantee of probity much less integrity of character if we think of Assad (a doctor) the president of Syria and Dr. Menguele. .

Indeed, in the archaic system in place in Thailand, Kanman are "compensated" to direct voting in their villages one way or the other. Vote buying, and selling of it, are 2 aspects of this country that makes true Democracy difficult to get a firm foothold in Thailand.

When Thais themselves refuse individually to take part in corruption, then a new norm of behaviour will be born in Thailand.

I am not holding my breath.

The lady with the somtam stall in the market said our local Kamnan was paid 10m Baht by Thaksin.

They resigned.

They left.

They formed a new different grouping [one i do not like as it happens]

Different being the key word.

They are not the same.

Ok, you win. No big deal. Let the Siamese twin ague over who owned who.

I haven't won anything. It's not a competition. I really don't understand your second sentence.

Badly written. As others have said, local chiefs are already elected. They are opposing elected govenors, which I guess they see will great another power centre on their turf.

They are probably right in that there will be too many chiefs. Question is, which positions should be abolished,, the Kamnam or the provincial govenor?

Badly written. As others have said, local chiefs are already elected. They are opposing elected govenors, which I guess they see will great another power centre on their turf.

They are probably right in that there will be too many chiefs. Question is, which positions should be abolished,, the Kamnam or the provincial govenor?

Wasn't Thaksin proposing to do this before his demise.

It said the move would make the role of village headman and kamnan or sub-district chief redundant

Probably means their kickbacks and commissions are in jeopardy. Why on earth do you need these hangers on anyway?

Thailand has many hangers-on. The Thai system evolves around hangers-on and then their hangers-on. There is no independent in Thailand. Everyone is a hanger-on.

Your right,even when i'm working,blokes are hangin around hoping i'll get lazy or drop with heat exhaustion,and invite them to finish the job.and then they have mates who are hangin..I have left one man doing a job and when i get back he has a mate helping.Never mind,same cost to me.

In a truely democratic country the provincial and village leaders are electedd. This is the way it should be in Thailand, Kamnans and village leaders by appointment should be done away with and they should all be elected ... wait that would be democratic

Poo Yai is elected in the village i live in.

In a truely democratic country the provincial and village leaders are electedd. This is the way it should be in Thailand, Kamnans and village leaders by appointment should be done away with and they should all be elected ... wait that would be democratic

Poo Yai is elected in the village i live in.

Poo Yai ??? or Nai Baan ?

I am seriously wondering if there is anyone on here who is still sensible and clear minded? It seems everyone is in either a red or yellow(ish) sided camp! Are you all blind? Thailand has massive issues, on that we are all agreed.However to close-mindedly defend any one side is complete idiocy! PTP and the reds have the rice scam and blatant corruption they are by their own admission (Thaksin says....) led by a corrupt criminal living abroad and ruling through his sister! The other side have their own issues with corruption as well as many other capital offences in Thailand. On top of this they gave up on democracy and refused to vote, making themselves a mere sideline in the political theatre. The PDRC want an UNELECTED commitee (sounds a lot like communism to me) to REFORM politics. We all need reform, I agree. What reforms will you make Mr. Suthep? Reply "mmm... we have not thought about that yet"!

Both sides are flawed, both have major issues. In a perfect world no one would ever vote for any of these cowboys! I would love to see people on here who are able to accept that the rural poor have been shat on for years. They may not pay taxes, if they did they would probably be dead through lack of food. Whilst greatly contributing to the GDP they are paid peanuts and work themselves into the ground just to be able to eat. I would also love to see the red side admit that PTP are corrupt, the rice scheme was a scam and failure of major proportions! That the country is being ruled by proxy. That most votes are bought or coerced in the north. Its a fact, If we as foreigners with supposed well established democracies cannot act impartial and rational, how do we expect Thailand whose democracy is less than 100 years old to do the same!

I haven't got the answers to the current crisis, however I at least can see points from both sides of the fence, and do not have to resort to name calling, or blatant ignorism when posting. Rant over, let the colour blinded abuse begin!

I have to disagree with some points in your post, I think PTP heart was in the right place when they introduced the rice program it was meant to help the farmer, It did not work as it was envisioned and needs a major overhaul of the faulty parts of the program, the amount of max. money that can be borrowed should be based on the international market price.

The government place subsidies on the rice price on the international level. the rice middleman needs to be cut out, as in our village a rice storage facility is being built by private owners who will purchase the rice from the farmers for resale over seas,Co-operative purchase, storage, and milling to be done at the village level! the should subsidize the rice IE: enact a subsidies on the rice it the international price drops to low. only then to protect Thailand rice industry!

Cheers

Fair points, I was a bit surprised that a government would commit over 3/4 of a countries GDP to one project though. Also how they have ignored every bit of advice given from here and abroad! It is negligent at the least. I agree that they had their hearts in the right place. Something has to be done! However I honestly believe there are a number of PTP who have made small fortunes off the back of this (corruption) whilst farmers are committing suicide! Its a national disgrace!

Cheers

PTP has been racked with scams from day 1.It has been set up with a scam leader,with one aim,to get previous leader back and money plus interest back.Everything else follows from that.This whole mess stems from one coward not taking his medicine.Another 15 years approx and statue of limitations will be invoked.Anyone want to bet it's still going on in 2030.Anybody remember the Saudi diamond affair,still ongoing.

Jeez. Just wasted more of my life reading 3 pages of drivel from BKK/city dwellers/people who HAVE NOT GOT A CLUE about the real Thailand outside of cities. If you do not know facts with your own experiences ie ears and eyes, stop posting your blinkered patronishing <deleted>. Everyone is elected, right down to village head man. No threats, no bullshit, bit of corruption, maybe, but this is Thailand, completely normal. The person who wins is the most popular. The loser(s) may have handed even more money over. Get real, the population in the countryside have brains too.

Jeez. Just wasted more of my life reading 3 pages of drivel from BKK/city dwellers/people who HAVE NOT GOT A CLUE about the real Thailand outside of cities. If you do not know facts with your own experiences ie ears and eyes, stop posting your blinkered patronishing <deleted>. Everyone is elected, right down to village head man. No threats, no bullshit, bit of corruption, maybe, but this is Thailand, completely normal. The person who wins is the most popular. The loser(s) may have handed even more money over. Get real, the population in the countryside have brains too.

"bit of corruption maybe"....

Jesus! get your rose-tinted glasses off.

A little bit of corruption is a like being a 'little bit' pregnant - it turns into a whole 9 months.

Jeez. Just wasted more of my life reading 3 pages of drivel from BKK/city dwellers/people who HAVE NOT GOT A CLUE about the real Thailand outside of cities. If you do not know facts with your own experiences ie ears and eyes, stop posting your blinkered patronishing <deleted>. Everyone is elected, right down to village head man. No threats, no bullshit, bit of corruption, maybe, but this is Thailand, completely normal. The person who wins is the most popular. The loser(s) may have handed even more money over. Get real, the population in the countryside have brains too.

"bit of corruption maybe"....

Jesus! get your rose-tinted glasses off.

A little bit of corruption is a like being a 'little bit' pregnant - it turns into a whole 9 months.

I think that you're the one who should get your tinted glasses off and live in the real (Asian) world. And if you don't like it, or don't accept it...............

Jeez. Just wasted more of my life reading 3 pages of drivel from BKK/city dwellers/people who HAVE NOT GOT A CLUE about the real Thailand outside of cities. If you do not know facts with your own experiences ie ears and eyes, stop posting your blinkered patronishing <deleted>. Everyone is elected, right down to village head man. No threats, no bullshit, bit of corruption, maybe, but this is Thailand, completely normal. The person who wins is the most popular. The loser(s) may have handed even more money over. Get real, the population in the countryside have brains too.

governors are selected.

A province, as part of the provincial government, is administered by a governor (ผู้ว่าราชการจังหวัด) who is appointed by the Minister of Interior.

At a rural level these Kamnans and village elders are the myopic conduit and catalyst for vote buying and electoral fraud.

And skim from every deal that moves through the public and private sector and touches their turf.

At a rural level these Kamnans and village elders are the myopic conduit and catalyst for vote buying and electoral fraud.

As in the case of Kamnan Po, they also represent the murderous mafia-like godfathers.

.

It said the move would make the role of village headman and kamnan or sub-district chief redundant

Probably means their kickbacks and commissions are in jeopardy. Why on earth do you need these hangers on anyway?

These people are spokesmen for the areas that they represent ensuring that the voices / opinions of the people who live in rural areas / villages, potentially effected by decisions made higher up the chain, are heard. Don't be naive.

I am seriously wondering if there is anyone on here who is still sensible and clear minded? It seems everyone is in either a red or yellow(ish) sided camp! Are you all blind? Thailand has massive issues, on that we are all agreed.However to close-mindedly defend any one side is complete idiocy! PTP and the reds have the rice scam and blatant corruption they are by their own admission (Thaksin says....) led by a corrupt criminal living abroad and ruling through his sister! The other side have their own issues with corruption as well as many other capital offences in Thailand. On top of this they gave up on democracy and refused to vote, making themselves a mere sideline in the political theatre. The PDRC want an UNELECTED commitee (sounds a lot like communism to me) to REFORM politics. We all need reform, I agree. What reforms will you make Mr. Suthep? Reply "mmm... we have not thought about that yet"!

Both sides are flawed, both have major issues. In a perfect world no one would ever vote for any of these cowboys! I would love to see people on here who are able to accept that the rural poor have been shat on for years. They may not pay taxes, if they did they would probably be dead through lack of food. Whilst greatly contributing to the GDP they are paid peanuts and work themselves into the ground just to be able to eat. I would also love to see the red side admit that PTP are corrupt, the rice scheme was a scam and failure of major proportions! That the country is being ruled by proxy. That most votes are bought or coerced in the north. Its a fact, If we as foreigners with supposed well established democracies cannot act impartial and rational, how do we expect Thailand whose democracy is less than 100 years old to do the same!

I haven't got the answers to the current crisis, however I at least can see points from both sides of the fence, and do not have to resort to name calling, or blatant ignorism when posting. Rant over, let the colour blinded abuse begin!

I have to disagree with some points in your post, I think PTP heart was in the right place when they introduced the rice program it was meant to help the farmer, It did not work as it was envisioned and needs a major overhaul of the faulty parts of the program, the amount of max. money that can be borrowed should be based on the international market price.

The government place subsidies on the rice price on the international level. the rice middleman needs to be cut out, as in our village a rice storage facility is being built by private owners who will purchase the rice from the farmers for resale over seas,Co-operative purchase, storage, and milling to be done at the village level! the should subsidize the rice IE: enact a subsidies on the rice it the international price drops to low. only then to protect Thailand rice industry!

Cheers

Thank you kikoman, a very sensible and educated view point for a change, instead of the usual 'finger pointing' and calls of 'corruption!'

I'm not saying that corruption may not have had a part to play in this failed policy (if it was I imagine it would have had a small impact overall, anything less than discreet would leave a too obvious trail) but to say it was a scam from the start (as many on here like to believe or promote) is unfounded and in my opinion very unlikely.