Foreign media strive to avoid simplistic portrayal of Thai woes

[LivinLOS]

They also paint a picture of his sister being a good prime minister, which of course, is far from true.

'Good' in this context is subjective.. Your good, my good, whose good..

In a democracy you have the majority choose who they wish to lead, who is then good until the next time a electorate choose who is to lead.. 'Good' is defined by a collective not you, or Suthep, or the Chief of the army.. But collectively.

[brewsterbudgen]

The fact of the matter is that foreign media correspondents continue to place the focus solely on what they see as the 'undemocratic' issue of the opposition not wanting to partake in elections until reforms had been put in place to ensure that such elections were free and fair. As a result, they have failed to outline the numerous infractions of this government to the outside world.

Many overseas observers are well aware that Thaksin is a convicted person who cannot return to Thailand, but they are fed additional suggestions by the foreign media that the convictions against him "may have been" politically motivated, which is pure nonsense. He was convicted fairly and squarely for fraudulent actions whilst in office.

They also paint a picture of his sister being a good prime minister, which of course, is far from true. I think they should place emphasis on the fact that she has neither the background nor the training for the role, and that in fact, Thailand is currently being run by the convict in exile. Greater emphasis should also be placed on the missing billions during the PTP tenure, focusing particularly on the NACC probe, which is likely to see Yingluck impeached, and probably, imprisoned.

Jonathan Head is an embarrassment to us, as he can see no further then the nose on his face. If the outside world were provided with the full details of the rape and pillage of this country during the PTP tenure, then perhaps there would be less sympathy for Yingluck, a little more sympathy for the impact that it has had on the grass roots people of Thailand, and perhaps a little more than a suggestion for more women in politics from the UN...!!

The BBC has to be "impartial" under the terms of its charter. The reports I've seen have done their best to describe both points of view. Like it or not, that includes the views of theose who support the present government and were in favour of an election.

[smileydude]

They pretty much condemned themselves with their own examples of interpretation.

Oversimplification of a topic and believing everything the media says on face value leads to a mental block, that is it prevents us from really trying to find more information, see a more balanced view and seek the truth. I think we are all, albeit sadly, suspect to media influence in varying degrees and what it spews out, usually sensationalism. Most of us already have prejudices and bias molded either from personal experiences eg. living in the Northeast versus living in Bangkok, or from our own political ideology.

An example of oversimplification I often see here on TV is assuming that all people who dislike the PTP, red shirts and Thaksin are all elites oppressing the poor. Could they not just be common folk who have disdain for corruption and believe this is whats holding everyone, including the poor back?

I myself have been subject to ignorance due to jumping to conclusions and at the end of the day its my own fault.

Edited February 15, 2014 by smileydude

[khunsiam]

just to say that most western media that I follow are telling it as it is and making it very clear for people to understand what it's all about and who is on the stages of the protest and who is behind it all.

Really? Then please let me know where the substance is in yesterday's WSJ report:

http://stream.wsj.com/story/latest-headlines/SS-2-63399/SS-2-455106/

It shows Chalerm as a calm, affable individual with a desire to negotiate....???!!!

There is no mention whatsoever of the fraudulent activities that have actually given rise to the current situation in Thailand, nor is there any mention of the rice fiasco and the disturbance that may potentially occur when the farmers reach Government House on Monday and are asked to accept down-payments on the money that they are due...!

The foreign media outlets are currently making fools of themselves. If they fail to report each and every one of the issues that have given rise to the current crisis, then they are demonstrating selective reporting, which is of no use or interest to anyone...!!

no, Chalerm is not portrayed as such, he is not portrayed at all, that's just your perception. "Most western media": European news channels and french, dutch, german papers included.

...or perhaps its your perception that he is not portrayed in a good light, because you don't see the dark side of him...!

nice twist, of course I dislike Chalerm but that doesn't mean that I have to read about his awful behaviour whenever he is mentioned in an article

[jayboy]

HMMMMMM.... But isn't saying the Dems are the PDRC over-simplifying the issue to the point of distortion?

The democrats and the PDRC are totally different and don't even totally agree on a lot of issues.

I think you need to explain that the Dems never once voiced support for the blocking of the election. They just didn't agree with it.

the PDRC is mainly the PADocrat faction of the Democrats

Thank you for that very insightful contribution to a debate which was actually proceeding quite well...!!

You say the debate was proceeding well.I can assure you that many reading your earlier brainless comment that Jonathan Head is an embarrassment to us all will have queried that assumption.JH is an excellent journalist and is highly regarded by many influential Thais including Khun Anand Panyarachun.

In truth the original article was fair enough and both the newsmen concerned have sound reputations.However there is even from these guys a suggestion that Thailand is a complex society outsiders struggle to understand.Normally this simply means some Thais can't bear scrutiny of their society's weaknesses and divisions.Far more complex societies such as that of Japan and China have numerous foreign experts and analysts.It is seldom however that locals complain foreigners dont "get it".

[SICHONSTEVE]

HMMMMMM.... But isn't saying the Dems are the PDRC over-simplifying the issue to the point of distortion?

The democrats and the PDRC are totally different and don't even totally agree on a lot of issues.

I think you need to explain that the Dems never once voiced support for the blocking of the election. They just didn't agree with it.

the PDRC is mainly the PADocrat faction of the Democrats

No it is not - it is some Democrat MP's (who resigned) from the party to form a movement to remove the Shinawatra's from Thai politics where they don't belong.

They disagree with some of the protesters actions and Abhisit has stated this on more than one occasion!!!

[jayboy]

HMMMMMM.... But isn't saying the Dems are the PDRC over-simplifying the issue to the point of distortion?

The democrats and the PDRC are totally different and don't even totally agree on a lot of issues.

I think you need to explain that the Dems never once voiced support for the blocking of the election. They just didn't agree with it.

the PDRC is mainly the PADocrat faction of the Democrats

No it is not - it is some Democrat MP's (who resigned) from the party to form a movement to remove the Shinawatra's from Thai politics where they don't belong.

They disagree with some of the protesters actions and Abhisit has stated this on more than one occasion!!!

No that won't wash.Abhisit may have pretended to distance himself with the aim of having his cake and eating it.But the reality is that the Democrat leadership is inextricably linked to Suthep 's mob and thus morally compromised.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[clockman]

Thais want the world to take them so seriously and they truly believe their society is so complicated. Come on man. They are among the most simple people I've encountered. Like children really which I admit is a good thing in some regards.

The country is not democratic. It's feudal as others have mentioned.

Morality is low. Education is low.

People don't follow values. Instead, they follow their clan leader. This is why it SEEMS so complicated. Most people are uneducated, low moral people of no values they understand other than 'follow the leader' and whatever conflicting things are said from day to day.

Easy

All true. Also no logic used, and that unique Thainess!

[englishoak]

HMMMMMM.... But isn't saying the Dems are the PDRC over-simplifying the issue to the point of distortion?

The democrats and the PDRC are totally different and don't even totally agree on a lot of issues.

I think you need to explain that the Dems never once voiced support for the blocking of the election. They just didn't agree with it.

the PDRC is mainly the PADocrat faction of the Democrats

No it is not - it is some Democrat MP's (who resigned) from the party to form a movement to remove the Shinawatra's from Thai politics where they don't belong.

They disagree with some of the protesters actions and Abhisit has stated this on more than one occasion!!!

They are essentially one and the same, just the radical bunch so that they don't tarnish the Dems as a political party and can do what the dems cant without being struck off. Suthep has been PAD democrat all the way was Abhisits deputy PM etc its just a plausible deniability fiasco, no more, no less ..

Dont pee down my back and then try to tell me its raining please

[sweatalot]

Reading some foreign media I found them just telling the story in favour of the Shins. I just wonder how that comes.

[SICHONSTEVE]

HMMMMMM.... But isn't saying the Dems are the PDRC over-simplifying the issue to the point of distortion?

The democrats and the PDRC are totally different and don't even totally agree on a lot of issues.

I think you need to explain that the Dems never once voiced support for the blocking of the election. They just didn't agree with it.

the PDRC is mainly the PADocrat faction of the Democrats

No it is not - it is some Democrat MP's (who resigned) from the party to form a movement to remove the Shinawatra's from Thai politics where they don't belong.

They disagree with some of the protesters actions and Abhisit has stated this on more than one occasion!!!

No that won't wash.Abhisit may have pretended to distance himself with the aim of having his cake and eating it.But the reality is that the Democrat leadership is inextricably linked to Suthep 's mob and thus morally compromised.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

He is not linked to them - he clearly wants the same result (remove the Shinawatras) but so do I and a lot of other people!!!

What's more he doesn't agree with many of the things that they carried out (disruption of the elections, taking over government buildings etc:). Unlike this government he is an honourable man that did his best for Thailand and doesn't tell lies!!

[geriatrickid]

HMMMMMM.... But isn't saying the Dems are the PDRC over-simplifying the issue to the point of distortion?

The democrats and the PDRC are totally different and don't even totally agree on a lot of issues.

I think you need to explain that the Dems never once voiced support for the blocking of the election. They just didn't agree with it.

the PDRC is mainly the PADocrat faction of the Democrats

And Suthep is the face of the Democrat party in the south. Without him, the Democrats cannot get all the votes they need in the south. The Democrat party owes its continued existence to the political organizing and fundraising of Suthep. Whatever, his faults are, he is still one of the most important political figures from the South and he dominated the Democrat party.

[SICHONSTEVE]

HMMMMMM.... But isn't saying the Dems are the PDRC over-simplifying the issue to the point of distortion?

The democrats and the PDRC are totally different and don't even totally agree on a lot of issues.

I think you need to explain that the Dems never once voiced support for the blocking of the election. They just didn't agree with it.

the PDRC is mainly the PADocrat faction of the Democrats

No it is not - it is some Democrat MP's (who resigned) from the party to form a movement to remove the Shinawatra's from Thai politics where they don't belong.

They disagree with some of the protesters actions and Abhisit has stated this on more than one occasion!!!

No that won't wash.Abhisit may have pretended to distance himself with the aim of having his cake and eating it.But the reality is that the Democrat leadership is inextricably linked to Suthep 's mob and thus morally compromised.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

He is not linked to them - he clearly wants the same result (remove the Shinawatras) but so do I and a lot of other people!!!

What's more he doesn't agree with many of the things that they carried out (disruption of the elections, taking over government buildings etc:). Unlike this government he is an honourable man that did his best for Thailand and doesn't tell lies!!

You are wrong.No serious source believes otherwise.He is not an honourable man given his duplicity and equivocation.He is a dead weight to his party and the country.If you like he plays the Sinn Fein relationship to the IRA, theoretically distanced but in reality the same scum.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

We all know you don't really believe that!!

[Ruin]

Consistency, all we need is consistency. The few rich families that run the country and generally make their money through corrupt methods, just like most previous governments is not a "problem" . The problem is the infighting between the families. That puts off business, tourism and the feel good factor. Doesn't matter if the government is corrupt or not, knowing what the rules of the game are and not having them change. That is what is good for business.

[davehowden]

"Foreign media strive to avoid simplistic portrayal of Thai woes"

Why bother, is anybody outside of Thailand really that interested in what is happening in some "also ran" country that used to sell rice but is now trying to self implode?

[brewsterbudgen]

Reading some foreign media I found them just telling the story in favour of the Shins. I just wonder how that comes.

Can you post some examples?

I think you'll find that they may be describing why Thaksin and his party was, and still is, although less so, popular in many parts of Thailand. Demonising Thaksin and Yingluck (or Suthep) is not something an impartial news organisation would do. Impartiality and balance seems to upset the partial!

[Scamper]

It is certainly true that the international media have been continually at odds with grasping the domestic political situation in Thailand. In brief, it falls short of the mark because it takes a highly complex situation and tries to fit it into a 30 second sound-bite. It can't be done, of course. So the simplification of it becomes necessary to make it fit. One way is to frame it as a clear polarity that everyone can fully grasp without the impediments and inconvenience of gray areas or inconsistencies. Then it is further " sanitized " for Western consumption, tying to make it fit comfortably with Western assumptions that conform more easily with their own experience. It's ironic, because at a time when we would naturally go to Western media for some sense of direction, they are actually - by and large - behind domestic coverage and understanding of the situation. And since recently Thailand was scored two placements behind Afghanistan in terms of global press freedom, that's a pretty sad state of affairs.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Scamper

[taffbkk]

The BBC has to be "impartial" under the terms of its charter. The reports I've seen have done their best to describe both points of view. Like it or not, that includes the views of those who support the present government and were in favour of an election.

Just wanted to chime in that regardless of what is in their charter the BBC by their own admission have been guilty of not only being far from impartial but also selective editing (Miners Strike, Winter of Discontent) and more recently the conflict in Georgia and Earthquake in Haiti.

As far Johnathan Head goes he really had to overreach himself when after conceding that Thaksin used his premiership to enrich his family and companies he basically shrugged it off by claiming it had to be seen in the context of some 1921 leader who was even more corrupt.

But then seeing as Ive just read an Apology from the present director general of the BBC for buying Documentaries "from a company that was working to promote foreign governments." its a moot point.

[cocopops]

HMMMMMM.... But isn't saying the Dems are the PDRC over-simplifying the issue to the point of distortion?

The democrats and the PDRC are totally different and don't even totally agree on a lot of issues.

I think you need to explain that the Dems never once voiced support for the blocking of the election. They just didn't agree with it.

I think you are correct in that there exist a variety of different opinions on various matters within the anti-government groups. The PDRC members are generally more extreme than the non-PDRC Democrats.

And while you are likely also correct that "the Dems never once voiced support for the blocking of the election", I think that the distinction is at least a little disingenuous. The election was scuppered the day Abhisit and his Democrats boycotted it. If they had of participated, it's hard to see that the PDRC supporters would have been anywhere near as enthusiastic about blocking it, and also difficult to imagine that it would not have produced a result.

Do you disagree? Do you believe that if the Democrat's participated in the election it still would not have produced a result?

[Blackmirage2013]

Gotta agree with this original post..... Love him; hate him, he does draw supporters and fans.... He is a "rainmaker" for sure!!!

HMMMMMM.... But isn't saying the Dems are the PDRC over-simplifying the issue to the point of distortion?

The democrats and the PDRC are totally different and don't even totally agree on a lot of issues.

I think you need to explain that the Dems never once voiced support for the blocking of the election. They just didn't agree with it.

the PDRC is mainly the PADocrat faction of the Democrats

And Suthep is the face of the Democrat party in the south. Without him, the Democrats cannot get all the votes they need in the south. The Democrat party owes its continued existence to the political organizing and fundraising of Suthep. Whatever, his faults are, he is still one of the most important political figures from the South and he dominated the Democrat party.

[donmuang37]

First of all, it is important to realize that reporters (Thai and foreign) are not free to report certain aspects of this political struggle because discussion of some relevant topics is taboo. Thus we aren't getting the full story. There are many foreigners quick to paint one side or the other as corrupt. But a careful look the past will reveal that both sides have been corrupt. Due to their past history, the Democrats haven't won an election in almost 20 years. They knew they couldn't win this one either so they suddenly decided that they needed reform before elections. If they get their way, I think we'll learn the "reform" means rearranging parliamentary districts so the Democrats can win. But there will be preciously little interest in truly eliminating corruption. Time will tell.

[delh]

Not a bad article, but here is the main point:

If you do not agree with Suthep's approach of boycotting the elections and trying to block people from participating, what is YOUR solution?

I don't like it, but I can't come up with a better way. It is easy to CRITICISE others when they do things that seem "wrong" or unethical, but given the situation, what is the option?

For those who say follow the peace process or negotiate, yes, in theory that is right. But theory is academic. We live in the real world.

Give us a workable solution then I think everyone, including ole' Suthep would listen.

Here's an idea.

Research, design and then advertise policies to suit ALL of Thailand.

Check them out, then check them out again.

Advertise them, advertise them again and again.

Check to see if your message is getting through, if not, find out why, then alter your course to ensure they do.

Challenge the government to be as clear and specific prior to an election.

ALLOW AN ELECTION.

If you have done the job properly, you just might win.

Implement them, as describes, as advertised.

Allowfor transparency thereafter.

No, thats just a bit too difficult is it?

[SICHONSTEVE]

Not a bad article, but here is the main point:

If you do not agree with Suthep's approach of boycotting the elections and trying to block people from participating, what is YOUR solution?

I don't like it, but I can't come up with a better way. It is easy to CRITICISE others when they do things that seem "wrong" or unethical, but given the situation, what is the option?

For those who say follow the peace process or negotiate, yes, in theory that is right. But theory is academic. We live in the real world.

Give us a workable solution then I think everyone, including ole' Suthep would listen.

Here's an idea.

Research, design and then advertise policies to suit ALL of Thailand.

Check them out, then check them out again.

Advertise them, advertise them again and again.

Check to see if your message is getting through, if not, find out why, then alter your course to ensure they do.

Challenge the government to be as clear and specific prior to an election.

ALLOW AN ELECTION.

If you have done the job properly, you just might win.

Implement them, as describes, as advertised.

Allowfor transparency thereafter.

No, thats just a bit too difficult is it?

Ok!! that easy is it?

Taking your first sentence - give me an example (just one) policy of the many you claim to hold that satisfies your opening point

Research, design and then advertise policies to suit ALL of Thailand".

If you can do that, you have my full admiration!!

[Maggusoil]

This is surely not so difficult. The good guys are the honest, hard working Thai people, who used to believe that they had something in common with their representatives.

The bad guys are the hoodwinking, corrupt, power mad, egomaniacs that have been leading the country.

The hard working, decent Thai people are waking up to being 'led around' by the nose.

[delh]

Not a bad article, but here is the main point:

If you do not agree with Suthep's approach of boycotting the elections and trying to block people from participating, what is YOUR solution?

I don't like it, but I can't come up with a better way. It is easy to CRITICISE others when they do things that seem "wrong" or unethical, but given the situation, what is the option?

For those who say follow the peace process or negotiate, yes, in theory that is right. But theory is academic. We live in the real world.

Give us a workable solution then I think everyone, including ole' Suthep would listen.

Here's an idea.

Research, design and then advertise policies to suit ALL of Thailand.

Check them out, then check them out again.

Advertise them, advertise them again and again.

Check to see if your message is getting through, if not, find out why, then alter your course to ensure they do.

Challenge the government to be as clear and specific prior to an election.

ALLOW AN ELECTION.

If you have done the job properly, you just might win.

Implement them, as describes, as advertised.

Allowfor transparency thereafter.

No, thats just a bit too difficult is it?

Ok!! that easy is it?

Taking your first sentence - give me an example (just one) policy of the many you claim to hold that satisfies your opening point

Research, design and then advertise policies to suit ALL of Thailand".

If you can do that, you have my full admiration!!

Not being a Thai politician, I don't claim to hold any policies at all. But then I'm not paid to design them either.

However, just maybe, equality for all farmers might be a start.

[Thai at Heart]

Which is more simple?

A. Suthep is doing this because he lives Thailand and wants to stop corruption

B. Suthep is doing this because he represents an entrenched upper class with maybe business interests that will not give up their position to the new kids on the block

Which story does Thailand want told?

A of course. Which is the easiest and simplest story to write?

A

[SICHONSTEVE]

Not a bad article, but here is the main point:

If you do not agree with Suthep's approach of boycotting the elections and trying to block people from participating, what is YOUR solution?

I don't like it, but I can't come up with a better way. It is easy to CRITICISE others when they do things that seem "wrong" or unethical, but given the situation, what is the option?

For those who say follow the peace process or negotiate, yes, in theory that is right. But theory is academic. We live in the real world.

Give us a workable solution then I think everyone, including ole' Suthep would listen.

Here's an idea.

Research, design and then advertise policies to suit ALL of Thailand.

Check them out, then check them out again.

Advertise them, advertise them again and again.

Check to see if your message is getting through, if not, find out why, then alter your course to ensure they do.

Challenge the government to be as clear and specific prior to an election.

ALLOW AN ELECTION.

If you have done the job properly, you just might win.

Implement them, as describes, as advertised.

Allowfor transparency thereafter.

No, thats just a bit too difficult is it?

Ok!! that easy is it?

Taking your first sentence - give me an example (just one) policy of the many you claim to hold that satisfies your opening point

Research, design and then advertise policies to suit ALL of Thailand".

If you can do that, you have my full admiration!!

Not being a Thai politician, I don't claim to hold any policies at all. But then I'm not paid to design them either.

However, just maybe, equality for all farmers might be a start.

That's a policy??

If so then it ain't gonna come from this government, is it - they only mean to reward their own voter rice farming friends in the North and North East and sod the Central Plains rice farmers and Southern rubber farmers as they have the audacity to support the 'nasty elitist, fascist' Democrats.

Equality is not a word that PTP has heard of - both Thaksin and another cabinet member more recently have spouted "if you don't vote for us then you won't be getting anything from us in the way of funding". What happened to the democratic principles there may I ask!!! I always thought that democracy was to strive to benefit ALL of the people (including those that share differing views).

I am not having a dig at you on this as you have not said what side of the fence you are on BTW.

[delh]

Not a bad article, but here is the main point:

If you do not agree with Suthep's approach of boycotting the elections and trying to block people from participating, what is YOUR solution?

I don't like it, but I can't come up with a better way. It is easy to CRITICISE others when they do things that seem "wrong" or unethical, but given the situation, what is the option?

For those who say follow the peace process or negotiate, yes, in theory that is right. But theory is academic. We live in the real world.

Give us a workable solution then I think everyone, including ole' Suthep would listen.

Here's an idea.

Research, design and then advertise policies to suit ALL of Thailand.

Check them out, then check them out again.

Advertise them, advertise them again and again.

Check to see if your message is getting through, if not, find out why, then alter your course to ensure they do.

Challenge the government to be as clear and specific prior to an election.

ALLOW AN ELECTION.

If you have done the job properly, you just might win.

Implement them, as describes, as advertised.

Allowfor transparency thereafter.

No, thats just a bit too difficult is it?

Ok!! that easy is it?

Taking your first sentence - give me an example (just one) policy of the many you claim to hold that satisfies your opening point

Research, design and then advertise policies to suit ALL of Thailand".

If you can do that, you have my full admiration!!

Not being a Thai politician, I don't claim to hold any policies at all. But then I'm not paid to design them either.

However, just maybe, equality for all farmers might be a start.

That's a policy??

If so then it ain't gonna come from this government, is it - they only mean to reward their own voter rice farming friends in the North and North East and sod the Central Plains rice farmers and Southern rubber farmers as they have the audacity to support the 'nasty elitist, fascist' Democrats.

Equality is not a word that PTP has heard of - both Thaksin and another cabinet member more recently have spouted "if you don't vote for us then you won't be getting anything from us in the way of funding". What happened to the democratic principles there may I ask!!! I always thought that democracy was to strive to benefit ALL of the people (including those that share differing views).

I am not having a dig at you on this as you have not said what side of the fence you are on BTW.

Oh please - 'Thats a policy' Do you really expect a fully researched document? I have suggested 'equality for farmers' may be a START though.

Blackmirage asks 'What is your solution' if not agreeing with Sutheps method. This is my suggestion and as already stated, I don't hold any Thai political policies at all, even though you imply otherwise.

Its all there if one follows the post fully. BTW, I do not sit on either side of this fence.

Edited February 15, 2014 by delh

[SICHONSTEVE]

You shouldn't make it sound so easy to resolve and make your claim to have the ultimate answer to this problem, if you don't.

If you are sticking with your equality for farmers 'wish' then you have been won over to the Democrat's side then as that is the ONLY party that this is going to deliver on this!!

[delh]

You shouldn't make it sound so easy to resolve and make your claim to have the ultimate answer to this problem, if you don't.

If you are sticking with your equality for farmers 'wish' then you have been won over to the Democrat's side then as that is the ONLY party that this is going to deliver on this!!

Steve, Do tell me where I 'claim to have the ultimate answer' - these words are just not there. This is a forum for discussion, thats all.

Thanks but I haven't been 'won over' by any party. The rice subsidy scheme stinks, I very much doubt that few would disagree but I wouldn't trust the Dems to introduce any equality either. I could just have easily suggested a policy of transparency ( not fully documented of course) for all of the spending within any government. These are basic suggestions if anyone has any understanding of recent events. I am also not interested in a keyboard warrior slanging match with you either.

Edited February 15, 2014 by delh