B17bn rice loan eases pressure on government

[Thaddeus]

Time to withdraw my money from GSB then.

And put it where?

Under the bed looks like a safer option right now, no interest earned, but at least it isn't worth less than when you put it there..

Is it?

Well yes it is, if all you have is Baht.

[Basil B]

I do not advocate advising people to withdraw their money from the GSB, but if I had money in this bank I would be queuing outside well before the bank was to open tomorrow, if I had not been able clear my account out online or withdrawn the lot by ATM withdrawals, let just see what the queues are like first thing, would not be surprised to see queues outside branches now, and one thing for sure they will not be for making deposits.

[smedly]

Time to withdraw my money from GSB then.

Could not agree more. Many people where I live in Central Thailand have been ringing round to inform all about the actions of the GSB. Tomorrow we and many others will descend upon out branch and remove all our money which when added together, is a considerable sum. Hope many others do the same.

do you think you will get your money ?

and might I add that although there is a deposit insurance to cover banks here like in the west - it's the government that covers it - good luck with that lol

[wayned]

13 cents on the dollar, what a deal!

[smedly]

So, as stated the delays in paying the farmers was down to the anti-government protesters as confirmed by the GSB labour union head Likit Klinthanom. Perhaps the farmers will think again about approaches from the ever slippery suthep and his sheeple.

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Oh please! 17 billion out of a 130 billion baht doesn't satisfy many does it. And the country is still burdened with a massive debt from the government's ineptitude and corruption.

Why dont you do a bit of research before posting? Thailands national debt as a percentage of GDP is well below most European countries, The US and Japan. 130 bn baht is 2.5bn quid. A drop in the ocean in terms of world economics and the Isaan has boomed as a result.

For the record, the attached is an indication by country. Please note, it makes no sense comparing countries. You can see the countries with lower ratios.

http://countryeconomy.com/national-debt

Thailand can support additional debt, which is why it was going to borrow the THB 2 trillion infrastructural loan. What I don't understand is why the government, pre-dissolution, delayed paying poor farmers.

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because you assume that they are telling the truth - it is very obvious to me that they are not

do you honestly believe anything that this government reports about accounts - I am 100% sure it is all lies - this country is bankrupt - read between the lines

[attento]

and what are the plans for repaying the Loan .

They couldn't find enough money from their own coffers last year to pay the farmers on the due date, now they are incurring interest charges on top, how will they find enough to pay the higher amount?

Are they planning to continue with a Rice Subsidy scheme next harvest ?

[JRSoul]

"He suspected that the borrowing could violate Section 181 (4) of the constitution, which bars the caretaker government from using state agencies’ resources to boost its electoral support."

Where as Suthep can collect money and donate to the farmers no issues.......because his plan is to have no 'electoral' participation in the forseeable future!!

The government is (unwisely) entrusted to take care of taxpayer's funds, and as a caretaker there is much needed restriction on what it is used for.

Why do you contrast this to voluntary donations? Is the government not also free to collect donations to assist the farmers in their law suits?

[englishoak]

Good some funds are going to the farmers, couldnt care less about about whos loaning it or if its even legal tbh let the courts sort it out after. If rates are good then its not a problem. 17 or 130b baht is a large sum but not really a problem as a country with the debts of Thailand

Countries don’t go bankrupt since their assets always exceed their liabilities, which is the technical reason for bankruptcy. Legally sovereigns do not go bankrupt but practically it is possible for them to do so if the liquidity is restricted enough for long enough.

Currently the lack of allowing a government to be formed is the prime cause of the liquidity issue, that is all it is. Dosn't mean its not smart to move savings out of the Thai banking system though, who needs the worry about that the way everyone has been carrying on here ?

[Basil B]

Time to withdraw my money from GSB then.

Could not agree more. Many people where I live in Central Thailand have been ringing round to inform all about the actions of the GSB. Tomorrow we and many others will descend upon out branch and remove all our money which when added together, is a considerable sum. Hope many others do the same.

do you think you will get your money ?

and might I add that although there is a deposit insurance to cover banks here like in the west - it's the government that covers it - good luck with that lol

So when the banks fail, they will just get a worthless I.O.U., I would "laugh out loud" but for many this will just be more hardship brought upon by the puppet of the person who is Thailand's biggest crock of all time.

[Skywalker69]

So, as stated the delays in paying the farmers was down to the anti-government protesters as confirmed by the GSB labour union head Likit Klinthanom. Perhaps the farmers will think again about approaches from the ever slippery suthep and his sheeple.

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You're so full of........

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[pookiki]

I thought Suthep and his allies wanted to help the farmers? If this is so, why are the unions allied with the PDRC blocking the payments to the farmers? I even read a statement in the past few days where Suthep encouraged the banks to loan the government money to pay the farmers. Utilitarian politics at its best.

well gee-wiz, I don't know maybe because the company they work for and receive their livelihood from may have a high possibility of going bankrupt and they will be left without income to feed their families. Oh these people are so selfish I know...

If you read the article, it is an 'inter-bank' loan and such matters carry little or no risk. Given that, what is the Union President's agenda? Does he want the farmers to be paid or not? You can argue over the viability of farm subsidies but the fact is that the debt is due and owing. The government isn't going to go bankrupt by paying the farmers.

OF COURSE IT IS ...............if it doesnt have the money to do it.............where did you learn about Economics - the village green???

LSE and you?

[timewilltell]

There should be laws in place that forces the government to be fiscally discipline. Borrowing money for a scheme that is not financially viable is a disaster, and puts a burden on tax payers. This would put a stop to populist policies for buying votes.

Strange I was not aware the large agricultural subsidies in Europe and the USA are not to facilitate a stronger stable economy, but financially viable vote buying?

The ones in the US and EU don't seem as riddled with government fraud and corruption either.

'Don't seem'.......you mean rarely exposed?

As this was

"Background

1999 was a critical year in the history of the EU for fraud. It saw the mass resignation of the Santer Commission, following a series of scandals (culminating in a nepotism row involving the former French prime minister and then EU Commissioner, Edith Cresson). Fraud only played a part in this, but an investigation by 'five wise men' from the European parliament condemned the Commission collectively for 'loss of control' over the budget."

Of course this doesn't make the siphon of government funding legal or excusable, but let us acknowledge the existance rather than attempting to take some form of moral high ground

You make an excellent propagandist for Suthep. Those guilty of fraud were found out by five wise men and the subsequent resignation of the people involved.

Isn't this what the judicial processes of the constitution provide for - independent checks on a government out of control? Isn't it what Suthep is proposing with his people's council?

I think the latter is a flawed proposition but the former, which Thaksin's lot want to do away with because they want complete control, is not! The only problem is the appointment process for judges.

[timewilltell]

Amazing how the reds have come out in such force this evening on this and other topics.

Most of their posts unfortunately have been designed to divert or distort the subject, which is :

The loan or loans from the GSB to the BAAC.

When all the statements from various officials are combined there would seem to be some doubt as to whether there is only one loan of 20 billion or another of 17 billion as well.

The GSB director has said the 20 billion is not supposed to be to pay the farmers rather to shore up the BAAC's sagging liquidity but what will actually happen once the money gets into the BAAC is another thing.

Kitteratt has it seems given a guarantee that the loan will be paid back with interest within or at 90 days.

Given that there should be a new Govt in power at that time this is obviously putting a burden of repayment on that Govt, something we have been told is against the law, constitution, whatever.

It remains to be seen come tomorrow whether any of the farmers get paid and if they do which ones get paid and how much.

In the mean time the lady has told me she has to go out early tomorrow to a local meeting of all those with money in the GSB to talk about getting their money out.

It remains to be seen that there is another full government in a month or even 3.

My take on what the EC is saying is that until the general election is 100% complete that party list candidates cannot be allocated so the 95% conundrum could hinge on one constituency in the south not being completed

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Except EC has no legal basis for withholding the result. The Constitution requires they announce it. So the "we won't tell you who won until 100% of seats have voted because [excuse]" is against their duty under the Constitution!

Section 236. The Election Commission shall have the following powers and duties:

(7) to announce the result of an election and the voting in a referendum;

I sort of expect the EC to try to throw the 23rd Feb elections he way they failed to register candidates and failed to send ballots and failed to clear polling stations....

Well the election is void anyway because it was not carried out in one day. It should have been deferred until every seat had candidates. That is what would happen in a democracy. In this country Yongluck was told but ploughed on regardless with the obvious conclusion. If the EC announce the decision it would prejudice a later election - not a brilliant idea really!

[timewilltell]

I thought Suthep and his allies wanted to help the farmers? If this is so, why are the unions allied with the PDRC blocking the payments to the farmers? I even read a statement in the past few days where Suthep encouraged the banks to loan the government money to pay the farmers. Utilitarian politics at its best.

well gee-wiz, I don't know maybe because the company they work for and receive their livelihood from may have a high possibility of going bankrupt and they will be left without income to feed their families. Oh these people are so selfish I know...

If you read the article, it is an 'inter-bank' loan and such matters carry little or no risk. Given that, what is the Union President's agenda? Does he want the farmers to be paid or not? You can argue over the viability of farm subsidies but the fact is that the debt is due and owing. The government isn't going to go bankrupt by paying the farmers.

OF COURSE IT IS ...............if it doesnt have the money to do it.............where did you learn about Economics - the village green???

LSE and you?

Interbank loans certainly do carry risk if the borrowing bank is in trouble. That is why Lehmans, Bearings, Lloyd and a host of others could no longer function - they could not get interbank lending to shore them over because the other banks were wise enough to see the writing on the wall and stop lending to them. Those that didn't just got caught up in the scandal / crisis themselves.

Glad I didn't go to the LSD (sic)

Edited February 16, 2014 by timewilltell

[MaiChai]

This is an interbank loan. GSB will initially lend 5B baht with a limit up to 20B baht. The question is how liquid is BAAC? Do they need this money to keep the business running? If i were an employee i would be worried!

The government is in trouble because they spent more than the budget allocated. This happened in October. Rather halting the scheme, the government issued notes instead. Clearly they have not been able to raise funds since, and are now blaming the protestors.

Question is will a new government honor the previous governments incompetence? I mean a budget was set and the government did not manage it. Thus would you want to take on someone elses debts? There is no certainty the next government will be PT!

[Old Man River]

I thought Suthep and his allies wanted to help the farmers? If this is so, why are the unions allied with the PDRC blocking the payments to the farmers? I even read a statement in the past few days where Suthep encouraged the banks to loan the government money to pay the farmers. Utilitarian politics at its best.

well gee-wiz, I don't know maybe because the company they work for and receive their livelihood from may have a high possibility of going bankrupt and they will be left without income to feed their families. Oh these people are so selfish I know...

If you read the article, it is an 'inter-bank' loan and such matters carry little or no risk. Given that, what is the Union President's agenda? Does he want the farmers to be paid or not? You can argue over the viability of farm subsidies but the fact is that the debt is due and owing. The government isn't going to go bankrupt by paying the farmers.

OF COURSE IT IS ...............if it doesnt have the money to do it.............where did you learn about Economics - the village green???

Your economics is way off, but understandable since the accounting on the rice program seems to be a secret.

It is about budgets and liquidity. The BAAC pays back the farmers, but it needed the liquidity and part of an already approved spending budget from another project to be transferred to the BAAC to pay some of the farmers. Hence, they did the normally very short term interbank loan for liquidity and "borrowed"some of the pre approved spending budget from another project.

What gets me is, it looks like they had not budgeted to pay back all the farmers. Otherwise, they would not have needed some of a pre approved expenditure budget transferred in from another project.

When had they planned to pay back all the farmers?

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[Old Man River]

So, as stated the delays in paying the farmers was down to the anti-government protesters as confirmed by the GSB labour union head Likit Klinthanom. Perhaps the farmers will think again about approaches from the ever slippery suthep and his sheeple.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Oh please! 17 billion out of a 130 billion baht doesn't satisfy many does it. And the country is still burdened with a massive debt from the government's ineptitude and corruption.

Why dont you do a bit of research before posting? Thailands national debt as a percentage of GDP is well below most European countries, The US and Japan. 130 bn baht is 2.5bn quid. A drop in the ocean in terms of world economics and the Isaan has boomed as a result.

For the record, the attached is an indication by country. Please note, it makes no sense comparing countries. You can see the countries with lower ratios.

http://countryeconomy.com/national-debt

Thailand can support additional debt, which is why it was going to borrow the THB 2 trillion infrastructural loan. What I don't understand is why the government, pre-dissolution, delayed paying poor farmers.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

because you assume that they are telling the truth - it is very obvious to me that they are not

do you honestly believe anything that this government reports about accounts - I am 100% sure it is all lies - this country is bankrupt - read between the lines

The Country has large foreign currency reserves at the BOT. It is not bankrupt as you say.

I agree, there is little transparency from this government, with practically none on the rice fiasco. However, the BOT does issue transparent numbers. If the government starts (borrowing) these reserves, then start to worry.

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[Old Man River]

why don't they f... print it?

how much USA and EU printed last year ?.....

130 billions baths is nothing and could only lower the bath (good for export)

Once they print it, they need a pre approved budget to spend it.

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[GeorgeO]

So, as stated the delays in paying the farmers was down to the anti-government protesters as confirmed by the GSB labour union head Likit Klinthanom. Perhaps the farmers will think again about approaches from the ever slippery suthep and his sheeple.

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Fabbie, you never cease to amaze me...and indeed, your nonsensical observations are becoming increasingly tiresome.

The labour union head of a bank which is in collusion with the PTP says the delay is the fault of the anti-government protesters, and you jump all over this as the gospel truth.

For the Nth time, YL and her PTP circus were due to have paid out this money before the anti-government uprising even began...so how do you substantiate your claim that it the fault of the protesters...??

[Cuchulainn]

Good. The farmers will get paid as we all knew they would. Great pity it has taken so long

You really are living in the clouds or yer head up yer red arse.

The PTP/RS (I don't distinguish between thugs) have promised several times to pay the farmers and have used all kinds of excuses to cover up their pathetic, ill-thought, incompetent, corrupt plan.

Again, she bleats they will definitely get paid and you believe her?

Jesus!

[indyuk]

So, as stated the delays in paying the farmers was down to the anti-government protesters as confirmed by the GSB labour union head Likit Klinthanom. Perhaps the farmers will think again about approaches from the ever slippery suthep and his sheeple.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Many farmers were not paid before the demonstrations.

For transparency sake, since this is a democracy, do you have any idea where the accounting on the rice program can be found? Have you ever seen it?

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You Sir are naive. This Democrat and the PDRC conspiracy was timed to cut off payment to the Farmers. That is why the entire action is intended to continue until the Thai Governments inability to pay brought PM Yingluck's government down and trash the Rice Pledging Scheme in a single pincer movement. The extent of the criminality of the leaders of the of this action indicate that neither Abhisit or Suthep give a damn about Thailand or her people.

[Old Man River]

So, as stated the delays in paying the farmers was down to the anti-government protesters as confirmed by the GSB labour union head Likit Klinthanom. Perhaps the farmers will think again about approaches from the ever slippery suthep and his sheeple.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Many farmers were not paid before the demonstrations.

For transparency sake, since this is a democracy, do you have any idea where the accounting on the rice program can be found? Have you ever seen it?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

You Sir are naive. This Democrat and the PDRC conspiracy was timed to cut off payment to the Farmers. That is why the entire action is intended to continue until the Thai Governments inability to pay brought PM Yingluck's government down and trash the Rice Pledging Scheme in a single pincer movement. The extent of the criminality of the leaders of the of this action indicate that neither Abhisit or Suthep give a dam_n about Thailand or her people.

That is changing the subject (not that I agree with you).

Where is the accounting on this project? Have you ever seen it ? Yes or no?

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[rubl]

So, as stated the delays in paying the farmers was down to the anti-government protesters as confirmed by the GSB labour union head Likit Klinthanom. Perhaps the farmers will think again about approaches from the ever slippery suthep and his sheeple.

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As usual you mis-interpret, my dear Fab4. Not the paying of farmers was delayed, but the process of finalising the inter-bank loan and transferring the funds to the BAAC"

Now how a handful of protesters outside a building can do all that, one may wonder

[Robby nz]

Does this 17 billion actually exist ?

The numbers seem to be all over the where with the GSB fella saying 5 billion has been paid and they might pay 5 billion more up to 20 billion if there is no trouble with there depositors, now there seems to be trouble so where to from here.

[Thaddeus]

Does this 17 billion actually exist ?

The numbers seem to be all over the where with the GSB fella saying 5 billion has been paid and they might pay 5 billion more up to 20 billion if there is no trouble with there depositors, now there seems to be trouble so where to from here.

Quite, wondering what is going to happen when a large number of people try to withdraw significant amounts of real cash.

[sean in udon]

Anybody provide me with a link to the same/similar news article in Thai? When I take my money out tomorrow, I want to show them why.

Cheers

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Edited February 17, 2014 by sean in udon