First time buying in Thailand

[cmason191]

Hi everyone

I am originally from the UK but have been staying in Thailand now for more than 5 years and am thinking about purchasing a condo here to stay. As I am sure I plan to stay the foreseeable future.

Would anyone recommend some things to look out for when I am going to inspect the condos? As this will be the first every property I will be purchasing.

A friend of mine has mentioned I should look out for the maintenance cost on some places being high he also mentioned about getting a mortgage.

How would I go about getting a mortgage here? Is it possible? I have read it's possible to get one through having a bank account in Singapore - which I haven't got at present.

Also would there be any problems with me being on ED Visa while purchasing property?

Really appreciate any advice

C

[fabphil]

I wouldnt buy house or condo..to much unexpected things happen...rent is best...keep ur money in ur own country

[RayongRental]

Buy only ready made!
No in some project that MAYBE will be ready one day!

[olddoc]

If a mortgage is required best forget about buying and rent ---------much safer and probably cheaper.

[JSixpack]

If you do a search you'll probably find a list of dos and don'ts in some thread. I've seen a really good one.

But really the best possible thing is to rent a condo in the building for at least a few months and get to know the owners who've been there longest. Maybe you can rent the one you might like to buy. You'll find out all the issues. There's good and bad--no real estate anywhere is free of all issues--but most owners do think the good outweighs. So although this thread may well attract the HATE CONDOS and FOOLS BUY REAL ESTATE brigade, they are merely renters. Some but very very few owners show up here complaining--in proportion to their numbers in the thousands.

[SDM0712]

" If a mortgage is required best forget about buying and rent ---------much safer and probably cheaper"

As an agent here I would agree with this. It is very difficult, almost impossible, for a farang to get a mortgage here. It's even getting difficult for the natives.

SDN

[Jim in Chiang Mai]

Having only been here in Chiang Mai just over a year and having lived in Thailand before, may I suggest just a few things IF you get past the non-mortgage, work permit, absolutely want to buy in spite of all the usual good advice issues from farangs ….

1 First look to see if there are fire escape stairwells that go ALL THE WAY DOWN to the ground level, AND are any doors locked up to the roof or down? Emergency lights that actually work (unplug one at night to simulate a loss of power) ….

2 Ask to see inside the electrical closets and inside the and around the fire alarm system. You MUST find out if they have tested (real actual test) the systems AND THE SECURITY RESPONDERS … look everywhere you can several times … daytime and night … listen at night to see if you can handle any loud music nearby.

3 Meet with as many of the condo board members as possible and ask lots of questions … determine if the board or some "property management" firm has any real management capability …

4 Ignore any b**ls**t advertisements about 'award winning condo" … bought and sold propaganda … just advertisement.

I'll give you an example … we leased a nice very high end expensive award winning condo at "The Resort" in Chiang Mai a few months ago from an investor from Europe. Then the problems started …. brown water … construction noise all day long every day … music at night from a mile away that you could feel the base frequency rather than hear it …. internet wiring not to TVs, but to telephones but 3bb ISP said too small to carry a fast signal …. tried not to complain, but after I discussed the issues the owner threatened me saying if a farang complains too much here about problems at a condo Thai Immigration will visit and get told to permanently leave the Kingdom in seven days (black list to never return). Then the fun started … we realized two of the three stairwells did not go from the second floor to the ground … then they actually had a half city power outage and the center stairwell had no emergency lights … same the hallways to the center … oh and the stairwell that went to the roof … metal door locked … can't get out …. yes I have lots of pictures …. electrical closets had as much as two inches of debris on the floors and power wires were run OUTSIDE electrical cabinets so the doors would not close …. the list is endless. THE JURISTIC PERSON (building manager) WAS A FAILURE AS A HUMAN BEING …. SAID SHE COULD NOT UNLOCK THE FIRE ESCAPE DOOR UNTIL THE BOARD MET IN SOME FUTURE DATE MONTHS AWAY, AND VOTED ON THE ISSUE ………… that lady is an embarrassment to the good Thai people and a living testament to something call "Chiang Mai Property Management" … think they may have changed their name to "CM Property Management" … not sure …

We moved out and started fighting to get some money back …. thank goodness we did not buy ….. DO NOT BUY UNLESS YOU HAVE LIVED IN THE BUILDING 90 DAYS. There are those that buy before the structure is built and usually sell without living there … flippers … and then there are those that get stuck. Be careful.

By the way, I love Thai people, Thai culture, Thai food, and do NOT complain endlessly about the honor I feel being allowed to live in the Kingdom as a retiree … The formerly united States has its problems so I will not explain why I refer being here … just be careful.

[peterb17]

Some good advice so far.

Do not jump in straight away- you do not say where you are thinking of buying your condo?

Rent for a while, do the rounds of the agents, many are just crap- never phone you back, list loads that are actually not available!

Look for bargains, some people selling due to unfortunate personal circumstances are desperate to sell, I know that sounds harsh- but they may accept an offer.

Enquire about things such as who manages the block, sinking funds, look around are lifts paintwork, pool , gardens really well maintained- avoid condos run by Thais!

Look at the quality of fittings- every thing from taps, hobs, number of sockets etcbut if you have your own place it's surprisingly cheap for renovation building costs- but imported goods can cost- my hob was nearly £1000 ( but it is rather smart)

Good luck- but do not rush in - take time.

[SDM0712]

" do the rounds of the agents, many are just crap- never phone you back, list loads that are actually not available"

.

Tar us all with the same brush why don't you!

[olddoc]

themagician

As a matter of interest have you attempted to sell the second hand property?

How much overpriced property is being marketed in Phuket ?

Is there a "hot" market " for this property ?

[peterb17]

" do the rounds of the agents, many are just crap- never phone you back, list loads that are actually not available".Tar us all with the same brush why don't you!

[peterb17]

Many apologies- sorry if got the wrong message across- do the rounds of the agents and sort out the good ones- last month was organising a rental - and some were totally useless and some excellent.

[axle chassis]

Hi everyone

I am originally from the UK but have been staying in Thailand now for more than 5 years and am thinking about purchasing a condo here to stay. As I am sure I plan to stay the foreseeable future.

Would anyone recommend some things to look out for when I am going to inspect the condos? As this will be the first every property I will be purchasing.

A friend of mine has mentioned I should look out for the maintenance cost on some places being high he also mentioned about getting a mortgage.

How would I go about getting a mortgage here? Is it possible? I have read it's possible to get one through having a bank account in Singapore - which I haven't got at present.

Also would there be any problems with me being on ED Visa while purchasing property?

Really appreciate any advice

C

I'm surprized someone whose been here five years already is asking this question.

I myself just joined here but I've been here 10 years now. 8 years ago I made money on condos before the Thai economy really picked up. Now Thai people have money and prices have picked up.

Not a good time to buy right now. Better to rent and invest in other money making schemes. Things are already overbuilt in the resort areas.

Forget about mortgages. No one here lends money to falang even with a 200% guarantee.

Sent from my SM-T211 using Tapatalk

Edited February 18, 2014 by axle chassis

[SDM0712]

Many apologies- sorry if got the wrong message across- do the rounds of the agents and sort out the good ones- last month was organising a rental - and some were totally useless and some excellent.

Actually none needed, it's a fairly accurate perception !

I have an agency in an expensive part of NW London and came here to retire. But boredom combined with a total disbelief of just how rubbish agents were here persuaded me to get back in the saddle here. I run the company as if it were in the UK and governed by things like the Property Misdescriptions Act, Trading Standards etc. I know I don't have to, but I just wouldn't be comfortable otherwise.

SDM

[SDM0712]

themagician

As a matter of interest have you attempted to sell the second hand property?

How much overpriced property is being marketed in Phuket ?

Is there a "hot" market " for this property ?

Easy to answer !

We have over 200 second hand properties.

Overpriced is a relative term but since sellers/agents don't all all appreciate the dynamics of a property market I would say that many are priced accurately for the market of 12/24 months ago maybe longer, but today are overpriced. I am quite honest when I meet sellers, however if they want to wait for the market to turn, which it will, they may very we'll get their price, just not today.

A hot market ? Yes, for well priced properties, some might consider them cheap. Although we start at around 1.5 and go to 94, I would say the majority of interest for Foreigners are condos sub 2MB and houses 5/10 MB. For Thais it's around 2/3 MB for houses. Hot might be an ambitious term right now, perhaps warm might. be more appropriate !

SDM

PS Sorry just noticed that wasn't meant for me.

Edited February 18, 2014 by SDM0712

[olddoc]

themagician

As a matter of interest have you attempted to sell the second hand property?

How much overpriced property is being marketed in Phuket ?

Is there a "hot" market " for this property ?

Easy to answer !

We have over 200 second hand properties.

Overpriced is a relative term but since sellers/agents don't all all appreciate the dynamics of a property market I would say that many are priced accurately for the market of 12/24 months ago maybe longer, but today are overpriced. I am quite honest when I meet sellers, however if they want to wait for the market to turn, which it will, they may very we'll get their price, just not today.

A hot market ? Yes, for well priced properties, some might consider them cheap. Although we start at around 1.5 and go to 94, I would say the majority of interest for Foreigners are condos sub 2MB and houses 5/10 MB. For Thais it's around 2/3 MB for houses. Hot might be an ambitious term right now, perhaps warm might. be more appropriate !

SDM

PS Sorry just noticed that wasn't meant for me.

No problem and I appreciate the (relatively) honest reply from an estate agent !

Of course you will advise the "farang" they cannot own the land their house is built on --------I do of course recognise there are various "scam" schemes of doubtful legality used to "ease" the purchase of houses !

[SDM0712]

.."............ There's good and bad--no real estate anywhere is free of all issues.......

I'd like to add here that it is a common misconception that agents are working for all parties for the common good. We are not, we are working for the client to get the best possible deal. In most cases were are paid by the seller/landlord so it it our job to get the highest price and best terms. Occasionally we are retained by buyers to find a property and it then becomes our job to negotiate the lowest price and best terms for the buyer. The situation should never come about that we are being paid by seller and buyer since there would an obvious conflict of interest and unworkable situation.

The other thing I would like to say is that there is a very common term in UK legal property circles of " buyer beware". It means that it is the buyers responsibility to discover problems with the building or legal situation. As agents we should not lie if asked a question, but we do not have a duty to voluntary make the buyer aware of a problem. You can imagine if this practice is acceptable in the UK where our legal system is as old as time, it is certainly acceptable here.

To this end if you buy without a lawyer or building report then you have no one to blame but yourself if things go wrong later on. Certainly don't blame the agent.

SDM

[SDM0712]

No problem and I appreciate the (relatively) honest reply from an estate agent !

Of course you will advise the "farang" they cannot own the land their house is built on --------I do of course recognise there are various "scam" schemes of doubtful legality used to "ease" the purchase of houses !

I've built my reputation at home on honestly and professionalism and am doing the same here, no relatively about it. In the long run agents make much more money from being honest in repeat business and recommendation work anyway. We also get loads more lunches. I started 25 years ago in London W1, have worked some big corporate agents in senior positions and that is how I have run things and I insist my staff do the same or it's DCM.

I advise buyers when asked that the aThai Law is quite clear, unless you invest 40 odd million in government bonds and get a government minister to sign it off, a foreigner cannot own land in his own name. For anything else I suggest they talk to a lawyer !

SDM

No problem and I appreciate the (relatively) honest reply from an estate agent !

Of course you will advise the "farang" they cannot own the land their house is built on --------I do of course recognise there are various "scam" schemes of doubtful legality used to "ease" the purchase of houses !

I've built my reputation at home on honestly and professionalism and am doing the same here, no relatively about it. In the long run agents make much more money from being honest in repeat business and recommendation work anyway. We also get loads more lunches. I started 25 years ago in London W1, have worked some big corporate agents in senior positions and that is how I have run things and I insist my staff do the same or it's DCM.

I advise buyers when asked that the Thai Law is quite clear, unless you invest 40 odd million in government bonds and get a government minister to sign it off, a foreigner cannot own land in his own name. For anything else I suggest they talk to a lawyer !

SDM

Edited February 18, 2014 by SDM0712

[mrfaroukh]

I feel the best is to rent unless u really get a very good deal. In case of stress sale u may get good opportunity. As others mentioned rent for few months in the same building if u like the people, surroundings, noise, etc. then decide.

Once I stayed in Avenue condos in Pattaya, everything was nice and secure but the problem I realized later was lack of sun shine because of other buildings in surrounding.

[aussiebebe]

_{I purchased a condo in Bangkok and have some advice for the OP. I paid cash so I've no idea whether a mortgage from Singapore is possible but as for the things to look for...}

• _{Ideally rent in a building before you buy - you'll get to know everything and you'll hear all the gripes from the other residents.}
• _{Attend a general meeting - everyone has problems, not just foreigners but Thais too - you won't believe how much residents complain - about everything.}
• _{look at how much you pay in tax if/when you sell up.}

[ggt]

A few points to ponder:

1. Take pictures of every item in the condo you have chosen to buy...many an owner was surprised to move into a condo where appliance were missing...pictures and furniture had been replaced with cheaper items...and so on...take an inventory...back it up with pics...

1.5 Condo fees...here is an area...that if you do not keep up with fees, utilities, and whatever other charges...you will get ripped off...some times they will try to charge you the same yearly fee...twice in the same year...when a farang pays these fabricated fees...they just laugh...pocket the money...and get more encouragement to continue their corruption...

2. You will probably want Cable TV and Internet...here is what may happen...you will pay for a private line to your room...the company will bring in a line to the condo for you...the condo maintenance man...will take and split the signal many times...so that your TV reception is crap...your internet speed is a snails pace...this is common practice in the condos I have purchased...

3. Do not be taken in by a charming female agent...do not believe anything they say...without checking it out...

4. Double check all closing figures...have found errors...up to 100K baht...which the agent...of course...would just pocket after closing...

5. If the agent says..."I can take care of everything for you"...and you allow the agent to "help" you get licenses...items for your room...and so on...it will come with a high price tag...you will find a 100% or more mark up on your bill for the "help" provided...

[PattayaPhom]

No problem and I appreciate the (relatively) honest reply from an estate agent !

Of course you will advise the "farang" they cannot own the land their house is built on --------I do of course recognise there are various "scam" schemes of doubtful legality used to "ease" the purchase of houses !

I've built my reputation at home on honestly and professionalism and am doing the same here, no relatively about it. In the long run agents make much more money from being honest in repeat business and recommendation work anyway. We also get loads more lunches. I started 25 years ago in London W1, have worked some big corporate agents in senior positions and that is how I have run things and I insist my staff do the same or it's DCM.

I advise buyers when asked that the aThai Law is quite clear, unless you invest 40 odd million in government bonds and get a government minister to sign it off, a foreigner cannot own land in his own name. For anything else I suggest they talk to a lawyer !

SDM

No problem and I appreciate the (relatively) honest reply from an estate agent !

Of course you will advise the "farang" they cannot own the land their house is built on --------I do of course recognise there are various "scam" schemes of doubtful legality used to "ease" the purchase of houses !

I've built my reputation at home on honestly and professionalism and am doing the same here, no relatively about it. In the long run agents make much more money from being honest in repeat business and recommendation work anyway. We also get loads more lunches. I started 25 years ago in London W1, have worked some big corporate agents in senior positions and that is how I have run things and I insist my staff do the same or it's DCM.

I advise buyers when asked that the Thai Law is quite clear, unless you invest 40 odd million in government bonds and get a government minister to sign it off, a foreigner cannot own land in his own name. For anything else I suggest they talk to a lawyer !

SDM

There is no pleasing some idiots no matter how honest you are or how hard you work. If you got a few weeks will give some examples of the most arrogant, pig headed know it alls that mess up a sale because they read the tripe on this website or speak to someone in a bar somewhere. Cheap Charlies with a few million Baht seem to be the worst, less than that and most buyers/owners are just downright obnoxious turds that I have no respect for and now even less patience for. Our company policy is being changed to listings of 5 Million plus only, just so we dont have to put up with so much carp everyday.

[olddoc]

SDM0712

I intended no personal "insult". I am sure you are entirely "ethical" -------

However being "in the business" also implies you are aware of exactly what was meant .

[peterb17]

Oh well- there is me saying some agents are excellent- this evening had the water meter removed( did not think that was possible- but it is!) so water is cut off.

I check everything- so agent had assured me all bills are paid- it turns out water bills have not been paid by previous tenants for ages- so no water- have enough in the tank for a couple of days , and hopefully will be sorted..

So returning to the OP, be prepared for minor things to go wrong and simply do not believe anything that your charming agent tells you!

[cmason191]

Guys thanks for all the advices that are being offered here - I do find the opinions helpful.

Of course I want to take time deciding the decision to purchase my first home - especially being abroad from my home country.

As for the area I saw someone questioning I am going for Thong Lo (I have rented here for 2 years and really enjoy what the area offers).

This week I will be doing some scouting with some agents - I went today and noticed the juristic office only being able to show me 2 units in one building. Though when I went back later the agent I used was able to show me units the juristic people didn't have available - is that normal in Thailand?

Also as for the juristic office in general have people found management at high rise large condos or small builds generally better?

Regarding mortgages I have come into contact with MBK Guarantee Co. that arrange mortgages for farangs - has anyone any experience with dealing with them?

Finally an agent stated to me that if I was to buy a condo it should be for at least 5 years - when I questioned this the agent didn't seem to explain it very well just with an answer along the lines of "tax".

I will keep this thread updated and hope to gain more insight here.

Thanks

C

[SDM0712]

I am aware of what goes on and because I still work the London side never ceased to be amazed.

SDM

[SDM0712]

If you sell a property you have owned for less than 5 years you will pay a higher tax when you sell.

SDM

[KittenKong]

1) Check out buildings first. Worry about the individual units later.

2) Make a shortlist of buildings you like. Consider things like layout, common fees, cleanliness, security, location, parking, type and nationalities of people living in the building. Who is on the committee? Read the minutes of the last AGM to see what sort of things concern them. I like to read an agenda that covers things like changing light bulbs and painting the lobby a different colour. I am less keen on things like legal proceedings with disgruntled owners, legal proceedings with management companies, termites, drainage system replacement, elevator replacement.

3) Try to rent in the buildings you like before buying, ideally for many months.

4) Dont believe a single word that anyone connected with the sale tells you and dont trust them. They will probably do and say anything to get a sale and they surely dont care about you at all.

5) Dont assume that agents here have any sort of legal or financial skill or training, or that they have any relevant qualifications of any type. They do not. Any idiot can become a real estate agent here and thousands have. They are just salespeople and should be treated accordingly.

6) It's reasonable to assume that the asking price is probably way over the top and so dont be afraid to make a low offer. You can always increase it. There are tens of thousands of units in Thailand that are on sale at ridiculously inflated prices and have been so for months or years or even more. The idea being that if they wait long enough some idiot may come along and buy it. Try and ensure that this isnt you.

7) Ask how long the place has been up for sale and check its price history if you can. Try and find serious vendors. They may be few and far between but they are the ones likely to sell at a price approaching the real value, or less.

8) Try to rent the unit for a while to test it out. It's better to find out about the line-dancing Russian insomniacs who live upstairs before you buy.

9) Dont be pressured. There is always another better, cheaper unit for sale nearby.

10) Never buy anything with an empty plot next door (unless you simply dont care about your view or being overlooked, or are an exhibitionist, in which case go for it).

11) Dont pay large amounts of cash to anyone for anything (except for the taxes at the land office where cash is obligatory). Only pay with cashier's cheques made out the vendor and crossed "A/C payee only". If the vendor/agent wont take a cheque, just walk away.

12) Company structures for foreign ownership of Thai quota units are of dubious legality no matter what anyone says. Personally I would not touch then with a bargepole. Personally I dont fancy short 30 year leases either and 30 years is all you can legally get on a lease here. You may not care about this.

13) Think very carefully before buying off-plan. There are many pitfalls though in theory all new buildings in Thailand now have obligatory bank/insurance guarantees to cover monies paid over in advance and to ensure completion. But those theories may just be theories and I would prefer not to rely on them.

The building design can change greatly before completion and it is rare to get the same finish that you saw in the showroom. Do not pay too much money in the early stages. Remember: the contract is what you make it. You dont have to accept the conditions in it so dont be afraid to change them to suit you better. If the developer doesn't like it, you can just walk away. They need you a lot more than you need them.

14) Never put more money into Thailand than you can afford to lose. Personally the day I bought my condo I just wrote the entire sum off in mind and I sleep very soundly as a result of this. If the worst happened and the communists took over in a coup and I was deported tomorrow I would shed a brief tear for my condo, my car and my furniture etc. but the loss of them would not make a noticeable difference to my way of life or my financial status.

15) Most honest people (good luck finding some) would say that condos prices here are probably very near a high point in their cycle. I think there will be some scope for the unhurried to find some good buys over the next few years.

[ChiangraiTony]

First let me say that I agree with post# 7. In my opinion, once you purchase a condo it's yours. That generally means that if you discover problems later, you will have to pay to correct it (in the case of older condos) that's why it's crucial to conduct a complete visual and Hands-on inspection. For example: in many of the older condos and houses Electrical grounding of appliances or grounding in general is either non- existing or questionable as to the effectiveness of the grounding system. The last thing you need is an electrical fire or electrical stock or even surges. If you observe issues during your inspection you can either walk away, pay to fix it yourself or negotiate with the seller. If your electrical grounding system needs attention I recommend looking into getting a Safety-cut circuit (30ms) in most cases. Also look for cracks and water damage areas that may have had previous repairs that are covered over. Sometimes the seller isn't forthcoming with telling you of any problems so beware. Plumbing pipes, water pressure, the color of the water, etc.. Should always be inspected. One area that is often overlooked is termites. This detection takes a keen eye but with a little knowledge you should be able to detect problem areas. I suggest checking online to gain further knowledge. If you are really good at inspection there are always areas of concern that can be found. It's better to know upfront what your dealing with. Hope this can offer you some helpful hints. Good luck

[SDM0712]

Oh well- there is me saying some agents are excellent- this evening had the water meter removed( did not think that was possible- but it is!) so water is cut off.

I check everything- so agent had assured me all bills are paid- it turns out water bills have not been paid by previous tenants for ages- so no water- have enough in the tank for a couple of days , and hopefully will be sorted!

As agents we don't always know if the previous tenant has kept up with utilities. Depending on your tenancy agreement (ours are based on UK ASTs) the Landlord should have duty to ensure that basic utilities are available. In your situation what I would normally advise one of my tenants in the same boat would be to go to the water department, pay the old bills and reconnection and just knock it off the rent. There is usually little point is persuing the old tenants since they will be long gone so the landlord will have to foot the bills anyway.

Also we always make sure the Landlord has at least two months deposit when the tenants move in and refunds are not made at the end of the tenancy until the Landlord knows that all utilities are up to date. So really all roads lead to the Landlord (or agent if they were managing the property)

SDM