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Racism or Am I Just too Sensitive.


oiboy

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One thing is for sure: you're far better off NOT being judged as

an individual, because you come across as a violent egotistic

self-centred bigot.

Race has never been the issue with Indians, neither here nor

elsewhere.

There were problems with the resident Indians back in New

Zealand, where i used to live.

They are simply unbearable, for the most part, & you seem like

average type ... 'show him the pecking order of my fist'.

Indeed. that's just how Indians sort themselves out.

I've seen them beating each other up on Sukhumvit, like savages

out of control.

I've seen them in Kenya treating the locals like dirt! ... dare you

speak of racism!

I've seen them in India itself shoving one another off MOVING trains

and onto the railway tracks! in the most brazen disregard for human

life.

When it comes to Indians, a petty traffic mishap may wind up with

200 dead.

The hatred they're capable of & their veritable lack of self-control are

a deadly combination.

Indians have the ability to bring out the worst in people.

People see you for what you are, not physically (that's only later

by association) but behaviour-wise.

You the Indians have built a reputation for yourselves.

So too have the Japanese.

And so too have Westerners.

Ask yourself why the Japanese are respected wherever they go.

Then look around & see what group of people are the least

meddlesome & the most respectful of the countries they visit.

So the answer to your original question is 'neither': it is neither

racism nor are you too sensitive.

<deleted>

Tzar

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You cry racism yet refer to others as farangs. tut tut.

Farang has no racist connotation to me. If I have offended you I apologize. In china all foreigners epi non Chinese are referred to as Lowai.

Don't worry oiboy, there are still a few knobs on this forum who thinks the word farang is offensive. Ignore them.

Your OP is well-written and I feel for your plight. Is this your first time in Thailand? Do you encounter these types of behavior all the time in Thailand? Just wondering if it's isolated to certain areas. Thais--particularly in tourist areas--have a tendency to treat groups of people the same based on past experiences. I have heard that Indian tourists in the past (not sure if still the case today) have a reputation for being cheap-charlies. Regardless, the way you were treated is not right and I hope these incidences are the exception and not the norm during your time here.

If I am on the street and I am referred to as a farang, then fine. I am the white guy stood there. What irks me is when I am referred to as the farang teacher, usually in front of my face, when everybody knows I am English and everybody knows my name.

As for whether people in Thailand are racist, in my experience I would have to say a great many are, but most of my experience is with regards to schools, not in normal, everyday life. Schools request native English speakers, but when you show them a teacher who is not white, even though they are a NES, they do not want that teacher and will usually pick another teacher of inferior quality, and what do you know, they're white.

I find this disturbing, as this is from the education system, so what are they teaching these kids.

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this is a "plant" story to make people interested in the plight of canadian indians. boo hoo, man up, if someone is rude call them out, do not save it up untill you have half a chapter of stories to write tv about. you can speak thai, the advantage is yours, drop the hammer on these terds. :-)

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Splalpeen

Yes I mean I'm of Indian decent.

I really don't care what the low or high paid restaurant workers think. Not that their socio-economic standing bears any relevance to this topic. What I do care is when it negatively impacts me. I care less if someone is a closet racist. Racism is everywhere in the world. Will I condone it and accept it, no. I'm not trying to change anyone's thinking but when dealing with me I expect to be treated with the same respect I show others. I am not disputing there is racism all over Asia. I guess my feelings is I've never experienced it as much in my face as here. I have actually also experienced racism in India. Not to generalize but many Indians feel subservient to Caucasian people. Perhaps something to do with colonization?

I would recommend writing, as I see you are quite capable of doing, to the hotel "brand" main office. Your experience certainly will get managing office attention. The local staff must conform to the international brand's standards. Negative international reviews are followed by quite a few travelers via the Internet these days.

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Its unfortunate and disagreeable for sure, far too prevelant in the Hotel trade, I have found it makes a huge difference if they know you speak Thai, or you immediately correct them in Thai if you hear something offensive.

Not that doing that will probably stop them, they just wont do it to your face, just behind your back which is again typically Thai,

To so many Thai people the universe is Thailand, not many care what happens outside their own village let alone outside the country, thats just down to poor education and no social ettiquette, and its the lower end of this same education system that end up as the service personnel in many cases.

To many Thai people, if you are not Thai, you dont really exist, you are tolerated purely as a financial source and often resented. Sad but true.

The Thai people generally are lovely, gentle and pleasant and I enjoy living amongst them, those that have been exposed to the cities, tourism, and "foreigners" on a daily rotational basis of many colors and nationalities, are the ones that tend to have "attitude" which then begs the question is it fhem, or what they have been exposed to by the foreigners and their behaviour which has given rise to their attitude or opinion.

Well said, I would add racism and discrimination is the problem of the person who possesses it. It is a waste of your life to go on a crusade against the ignorant nearly impossible to educate them. Just look at the statement here about how people cannot tell the difference between an American and a Canadian so expect to be treated as such. Pure ignorance from a non Thai. My advice would be to move to some place ( restaurant, city, country) you are treated well life is too short. I do not believe the OP is thin skinned no one likes to be discriminated against it exists in many forms young, old, man, woman, religion, skin color, nationality, skinny,fat....... There are too many of them to fight them all but an occasional tongue lashing is good for the spirit.

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It is racism. It is also common in Thailand, and many Thais do not see anything wrong with it.

You are handling it as well as anyone could.

if it is any comfort, Cambodians and Burmese get treated even worse. And Africans (inc. Afro-Americans, or blacks from the UK etc) really, really get it.

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Are you sure you are Canadian? You must surely know of all the jokes about Brampton.

I thought Indians are actually pretty well respected in Thailand.... more so than in Canada.... save for an occasional Indian joke snake and stick joke.

To be honest.... I find the post odd.

Then you know little about Thailand , they are respected in the sense many have been successful but accepted not at all. Infact they have no real desire to integrate . A company I know run by Indians has an almost full Indian management team! Speaks volumes ..

It just accepted and no one appears overly sensitive to it accept the new breed of PC expats that come here.

Thailands inherent attraction for me many years ago was this very trait.

Never been bothered called a farang and then some thread starts on here about it bring a racist term. How come I and others who have lived here decades never even discussed it as such .

Thailand has been ruined by these new PC idiots, the holier than thou..etc..

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Well written op. Thailand is a racist and xenophobic culture, there is no getting around it. You mentioned the pecking order in Thailand and unfortunately for you, Indian tourists tend to be placed at the bottom of this order.

I'll echo what others have said above and give you credit for keeping a cool head.

First this is not Canada, it is Thailand and they make there own rules. I am white American and have had Thais pick me for seating for a movie or dinner

in front of some Blacks that made a big deal, but the Thais ignored them. Also was picked ahead of some drunk British guys who did not care at all.

They could have put allot more adjectives to khon khaek so I would not be so upset. I was stationed at Ubon R.T.A.F.B. back in 70-72 and heard the

words khon khaek in reference to the tailors on the base and they did not get upset at all. wink.png

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Oiboy - had to post as your posts and replies are great ...wow .... yes racisim is here - the darker your skin it seems when even dark skinned thai's are shunted.... have a look at most thai tv commercials, soaps and movies and see how many actual non white skinned thai's are on... I think all tv commercials have white skinned tha's and on the soaps any dark skinned thai's are usually the bad guys... am I right? ....anyway - even 5 star hotels can't get enough employees and let's don't even talk about the average hotels or restaurants... but you certainly have kept your cool - which is admirable and the way to be here of course... turn the other cheek or whatever.... I was standing in a line up somewhere in Saraburi for some big show and could hardly even inch my way to the gate to hand in my ticket as it was getting rush by so many thai que jumpers - mostly older people as well - was told the slang but forgot it now but something about being too slow... 5 5 5

anyway - 5 star hotels - write up a TA comment... bad service - then no tip... if you understand thai then either say something or leave the place if service is bad as hard to change

was sitting at an outdoor place in Chang Mai way back for breakfast with 3 other big sized falungs when i first got here about 2001 and a thai family walked walked by and said in thai " look at the big Ouen/fat falaungs" and the one guy who understood said to then in thai " which fat falung are you speaking to" and you should have seen the mouths drop open from the thai mum and dad who were there.... anyway - ...stories... lots of them ... have to have big shoulders here to let all the crap wash off ... 5 5 5

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My cousin I know he is genuinely racist towards Indians and blacks. He was purposefully swearing any time a possible (read Sourh Asian) "Muslim" or black person walked/rode by. I know his mates are also racist towards blacks and South Asians. His mates started saying they dislike farang despite the Luk Kreung (me) sitting right next to them.

They've seen farang but not been exposed to them fully.

I'm thick skinned towards racism anyway. Thai jokes towards me, sister and mother, mixed race racism and pretty much seen as a foreigner no matter where I go.

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Most Indians who can afford to come to Thailand would be upper or middle class. Having been to India several times and seen the way that these types treat the so called 'untouchables' who do all the dirty work, it's quite probable that the Indian tourist considers a Thai worker to be on the same level as a lower cast in his home country. I have witnessed Indians treating Thai service personnel appalling on more than one occasion.

This obviously does not apply to the OP but of course people always tend to stereotype.

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@oiboy, hats off to you and you've got balls. I'd like to shake your hand.

Racism is never an easy subject to bring up but I think you've handled it quite admirably.

Unfortunately most Asian Countries are racists, although they don't realise it.

Equality and Diversity isn't part of their educational curriculum yet.

Thais always complain about their darker skin (compared to the Caucasian complexion), many go to lengths to whiten their skin.

Just look at Thai beauty contestants, the whiter the better.............really!

Chinese are worse, but it's mainly due to a lack of education, they don't realise they offend.

Once sat at a Chinese family table having dinner, they asked me questions about the west and why black people are so stupid.

I laughed and asked what gave them that impression.

They must be stupid, because they don't shade from the sun and turn black.

That's a true account and the level of ignorance you will unfortunately have to put up with because of a lack of education.

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Maybe he should instead stay/eat at one of the many Indian owned hotels and see if it's better.

Your post kinda reminds me of this YouTube video. smile.png

I actually like. Thai food and eating at hotel buffets. Why should I ostracize myself because of other peoples behaviour?

It was a lovely video you shared. Thanks.

Regarding Thai being racist I just have to mention that racist are everywhere. And yes I also feel that they do not like Indian. Why I have no idea, but as you know money talk in Thailand and unfortunately many Indian here behave so bad that it effect them all. I had been in gogo bar where an Indian was spending a lot of money on different girls and buying them drinks. I think his bill came to something like 4000 baht but when he asked the girl to go with him none of them were ready to go and they all made some excuses. The reason is probably the bad behavior of many of them on the beach road, not being clean and smelling etc. So this has effected a fine person like you also negatively.

I had been in Canada and I know that people there are very patient and kind and that is one reason you did not have a problem here by showing your anger.

One more thing regarding the waitress what she did may not have anything to do with being a racist. The problem here is that they just give job to anyone not having proper training.

Someone told me you should never try to learn Thai language because I will not be happy when they talk together about Farang. So I guess I am a more happy person not knowing the language.

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why I was been referred by the front desk ladies as khon kheak

Actually, be a little careful with that word 'khaek'. I know 'khon khaek' is a rather offensive way to refer to Indian people. But the word alone 'khaek' is often used by Thais who work in hotels to refer to guests of any nationality/ethnicity. It is not offensive in that context. It has the same meaning as 'look-ka' (sorry no Thai keyboard here).

wan-ni, mi khaek gi khon? ==> How many guests do we have today?

Simon

In south Thailand I have also heard muslims referred to as "khon khaek" but not sure if it

an offensive term or not.

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Why would not they call you Khon kheak?
You are black and thai have no idea what country you come from so you will Kheak.
You call us Europeans for farangs, why?
What do you want the Thais to call you? Blacky, brownie, darky?
They do it because they do not know what country you are from, only that you are black.
Same goes for us Caucasians they do not know wich country so we are farangs.
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<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Splalpeen
Yes I mean I'm of Indian decent.
I really don't care what the low or high paid restaurant workers think. Not that their socio-economic standing bears any relevance to this topic. What I do care is when it negatively impacts me. I care less if someone is a closet racist. Racism is everywhere in the world. Will I condone it and accept it, no. I'm not trying to change anyone's thinking but when dealing with me I expect to be treated with the same respect I show others. I am not disputing there is racism all over Asia. I guess my feelings is I've never experienced it as much in my face as here. I have actually also experienced racism in India. Not to generalize but many Indians feel subservient to Caucasian people. Perhaps something to do with colonization?

oiboy, I have lived in Canada for quite some time before. And the thing is, you can't expect those "hey how's it going" with warm smiles from restaurant waitresses here. Here it's all about power and face, which requires money. You obviously have money, but your being "too nice". And you know how nice guys are, we step all over you, get it? People need to beg on their knees and treat you like a boss, to get your money. It's all about human interaction, how you let others treat you. Name all the restaurants, and I'll go to every single one of them, we'll see how they treat me, although I'm not of indian descent. But you get the idea, it's the attitude you need to bring in and what you will take.

Just from reading your few examples. You already got rudely taken while at the entrance, and yet you still wait and decided to eat there. Then after eating, you decided to leave a fat tip. Hello?! Even if I am the waitress, I'll treat you exactly the same next time you come in? Come on, not to insult you, but wake up to the real world. Can't always live in a happy nice friendly place, and expect the same in this "harsher" environment.

Then about the song, how about requesting the song first? It's just like fishing, let you get a feel of the band and their attitudes towards you. Nope, you gave them tip and then requested help. Have you ever have a dog before? Would you give a bone first and then expect him to learn your trick?

And yes, Thais are racist to Indians and arabs of similar appearance. Something you would have to fight on, never ever tolerate it. After my words, I hope you will "stop funding" these "racists". Stop throwing money out there geez. I don't know what job you do, or if your a business owner. But you gotta toughen up, be assertive, even in the way you speak. Never walk into any business ready to spend money. Walk into a business ready to "NOT spend money", unless they can change your mind with an amazing customer service towards you.

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I despise the way they say "Kaek" sometimes with that long drawn out low tone. I often mention that the Buddha was one.

You're not alone, "farang" is changing into the same derogatory "kaek" like term. The term for chinaman is now very derogatory, "jek" but was once totally acceptable.

I am very sensitive smile.png too and went into a 7/11 before picking up my kids from school. They started laughing when i told them I didn't want my pepsi in a plastic bag. Is this racist? of course - they wouldn't laugh if a Thai did the same thing. Well they might if he were 6'4" and was wearing a kilt.

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tzar, on 27 Oct 2014 - 23:00, said:
Faz, on 27 Oct 2014 - 21:35, said:

@oiboy, hats off to you and you've got balls. I'd like to shake your hand.

Racism is never an easy subject to bring up but I think you've handled it quite admirably.

Unfortunately most Asian Countries are racists, although they don't realise it.

Equality and Diversity isn't part of their educational curriculum yet.

Thais always complain about their darker skin (compared to the Caucasian complexion), many go to lengths to whiten their skin.

Just look at Thai beauty contestants, the whiter the better.............really!

Chinese are worse, but it's mainly due to a lack of education, they don't realise they offend.

Once sat at a Chinese family table having dinner, they asked me questions about the west and why black people are so stupid.

I laughed and asked what gave them that impression.

They must be stupid, because they don't shade from the sun and turn black.

That's a true account and the level of ignorance you will unfortunately have to put up with because of a lack of education.

The answer you got from that Chinese family is so pathetically absurd

that one can only think that either they were taking the pyss or you're

twisting their words (unwittingly or otherwise).

Someone slightly more serious might have answered you:

1) Because no civilization has ever come out of Africa.

2) Because African countries do not seem able to overcome their stagnation.

3) Because of the number of blacks that descend into a life of crime (within

and without Africa).

And this is hardly a laughing matter.

Tzar

Hi Tzar, No, they truly believed everyone was born white and turned black because they were stupid and didn't protect themselves from the sun.

I was gobsmacked at their beliefs. They prevail to be white because white people aren't stupid.

China is a sea of umbrellas carried by mainly women, but also a lot of men to protect from the sun.

I'm not sure they believed me that people are also born black.........they thought I was taking the piss.

Racism prevails because of ignorance and a lack of education, whether intentional or not.

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To: Whomever may be or is interested these are my experiences. I am a retired black Native North American, who is also a disabled U.S. Military Veteran and Law Enforcement Officer.

I had saved up and planned for 12 years to move and retire in Thailand, only to realize it was a mistake. I came to the kingdom of Thailand to live a relaxed stress free life enjoying a quiet lifestyle and the beaches. Since I do not chase women, run the Bars or Clubs and do not use drugs, get drunk and very rarely even drink. I find myself being targeted by most the Thais I talk to every time I go outside my door. I have actually come to pity most of the older men around me, Foreigners and Thais alike. I have found that many foreigners have learned to deal with their situation by getting lost in their own mental escape. Whatever way they could find through; doing charity work, schools, working jobs, exercise, internet, alcohol, sex and even with their families. Some Foreigners had manage to stay in Thailand years on school visas learning the Thai Language or other schools. Until they reached their retirement age. It seems many if not most Thai women only learn English or other languages with hopes of getting rich quick off marrying Foreigner men. Unfortunately, I have personally witnessed too many of those Thai women mentally abusing older Foreigner men for their money in public. Which was why I decided not to allow any Thai women to get close to me, to avoid getting caught up in that kind of Thai entanglements, scams or tricks that I can. I also come to realizing that most Thais will never admit any other Thais commit any crimes or do anything wrong. It seems most Thai people never hear no evil or see no evil, if it done to a Foreigners by other Thais. Especially if a Foreigner dies it is just Thai culture.

I think this list below of just a few the things that have been done to me. Personally I just LOL at all of it and the absurdity of it all…. It should answer some of your questions as to why I feel this way in less than 2 years in Thailand.

1.) I found I could not relax on Pattaya Beach or any Beaches, with the rude way Thais always talk or start yelling loudly around me. Or the way Thai vender and merchants always waking me trying to force me to buy their over-priced products or services. I have learn to carry ear plugs to play music to sleep or ignore their rudeness until I can afford to leave here. I even found most Thais smiles were usually fake, unless you are handing over money to them.

Since arriving I’ve become tired of hearing so many Thai people saying to me and other Foreigners;

2.) Buy me, give me or where is my Tip, when I already paid or they have not done anything for a Tip.

3.) When Thais actions and words show Thais don’t respect any Farang that we have to respect Thais.

6.) Or If we don’t like Thailand, we can leave Thailand. When I have not done or said nothing to them?

5.) Thailand is for Thai people not for (you, Farang or Farangs).

I have even had three different TRP Police Officers threaten insult and/or say to me;

6.) A TRP gave me a false accident report he signed, not admit that a Thai Truck Driver hit me.

a. The TRP Officer said, If I don’t like the accident report saying no one’s fault, I can leave Thailand.

7.) When my cellphone with cp tracker on it was stolen a TRP Police Officer told me.

a. He would only go with me to get my phone back if I paid him 8,000 Baht. I said No Thanks.

(8,000 Baht was more than I had paid for the Cellphone.)

8.) One TRP Police asked me. How did I passed Thai Driver’s License test without any Thai Help?

a. The TRP Officer asked, Why you don’t have Thai woman this is Thailand, you need Thai?

b. When I answered I paid 258 Baht for License TRP Officer accused me of saying 2,000 Baht?

c. The way TRP said. “I will see you around”. I felt his threat as if he thought of me as a criminal?

If you want to call it discrimination or racism you can? I simply call it their uncompromising egotistical arrogant behavior and the money loving attitudes of the Thai people. Once I realized that I decided to vote with my feet and spend my retirement and money elsewhere. But unfortunately it will take me a year to save up enough to move comfortably, unless there’s an emergency where I need to blow out of this Hell Hole Faster...

if you live in a resort area be prepared for jaded locals. sensible guys retire upcountry.

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OMG! I thought you are writing a novel. Anyway, I guess you have not seen how they treat the isaan girls at the fancy places.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Me too...I thought he was writing the Inscrutable Americans 2: An Adventure of Oiboy in Thailand.

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Sounds like Thai bashing to me, considering you're posting the same thing all over the internet

http://www.tripadvisor.com.au/ShowTopic-g293915-i3686-k7219143-Racism_or_Am_I_Too_Sensitive-Thailand.html

coffee1.gif

A Canadian will sound like an American to most people, and they aren't particularly well liked. Nor, for that matter are Indians. 2 strikes. That's life.

No, it's the third strike that gives you lifetongue.png

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