racism among expats in thailand

[Berkshire]

Every week I see signs in hotels and bars saying: No Arabs or Black people. We don't serve people from Africa. And similar signs.

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

As for the no Arabs signs, they were popular in bars 20 years ago, havent seen any in ages.

Certainly never saw any in a hotel.

I haven't seen any in ages as well. But the Lars dude says he sees these signs EVERY WEEK?? Is he delusional or just adept at telling lies?

I can see signs like this in many bars in the Nana area. This one sits on the wall in a bar at soi 5 sukhomwith.

Touche. But is this a recent sign? Is it a farang-owned bar? I've never seen such a thing in Chiang Mai or even Bangkok, but years ago, I saw something in some sh*t-hole bar outside of Pattaya. Forgot which group they were prohibiting, but the bar was farang-owned.

[rgs2001uk]

^^^^^,

that bar I believe is Thai owned, its not a recent sign (the photo may have been taken recently) but those signs exist for a reason.

Anyone who knows the history of that area will know why those signs are there.

Notice the sign says no Africa man, it doesnt say no blacks.

Further down on suk soi 5 one of the larger (Thai owned) bars barred the lot of them for obvious reasons.

Wouldnt want to be accused of sterotyping or making racist comments by some of our more sensitive members, but it doesnt take a rocket scientist to work out what.

Take a trip further up Suk to soi 13 about midnight to see what I am talking about.

[Sayonarax]

^^^^^,

that bar I believe is Thai owned, its not a recent sign (the photo may have been taken recently) but those signs exist for a reason.

Anyone who knows the history of that area will know why those signs are there.

Notice the sign says no Africa man, it doesnt say no blacks.

Further down on suk soi 5 one of the larger (Thai owned) bars barred the lot of them for obvious reasons.

Wouldnt want to be accused of sterotyping or making racist comments by some of our more sensitive members, but it doesnt take a rocket scientist to work out what.

Take a trip further up Suk to soi 13 about midnight to see what I am talking about.

Most of the Africans here are illegals and are generally up to no good.

Call me a stereo-typer, but if its walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, chances are its a duck.

[larsjohnsson]

Every week I see signs in hotels and bars saying: No Arabs or Black people. We don't serve people from Africa. And similar signs.

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

As for the no Arabs signs, they were popular in bars 20 years ago, havent seen any in ages.

Certainly never saw any in a hotel.

I haven't seen any in ages as well. But the Lars dude says he sees these signs EVERY WEEK?? Is he delusional or just adept at telling lies?

I can see signs like this in many bars in the Nana area. This one sits on the wall in a bar at soi 5 sukhomwith.

Touche. But is this a recent sign? Is it a farang-owned bar? I've never seen such a thing in Chiang Mai or even Bangkok, but years ago, I saw something in some sh*t-hole bar outside of Pattaya. Forgot which group they were prohibiting, but the bar was farang-owned.

This is from Bankok where I live. But I have seen them in Pattaya also. I know the Sugarschack bar in Pattaya had a sign against Arabs for many years. But I have not been there for a long time. Even the very nice Service Apartments named Evergreen apartment at Ratchatewi Bangkok had a sign in the reception many years. They removed it last year or the year before. I stayed at that place a long time. And this is s good expensive place that charge you 40-65 thousend a month.

The sign on the pic is there today. So it's not old.

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited February 21, 2014 by larsjohnsson

[gerry123]

oh by the way O P hows the job hunting going??

[Mudcrab]

I do not really understand from OP what exactly they are saying or doing to make them racist ?

Personally I could not care less what half tattooed shaved head, drunk, uneducated peasant thinks of me or talks about me.

Anyone with half a brain can see the deal, and those who can not are not worth my time

bit racist that don't you think

he could be talking about expats from his own country

[Mudcrab]

We become what we think we are.

Judging from your posts, I'd say you see yourself as a victim, ergo ….

Five months in Thailand means you know all of how to order a few dishes at a restaurant. post again in a few years.

Surprised it took this long for the original OP subject to get tossed aside and the Thainess snobbism to rear it's ugly head. I've been here longer than you......nah nah nah ad nauseum.

No doubt the class distinction will kick in soon where people are described as lo-so, hi so etc. We can thank the British for that particular export.

I am so glad I came from a country where this crap was disposed of years ago.

[belg]

maybe something to do with all those nigerian 411 scams you hear about, or the ones getting caught for selling whatever illegal ?

and lets not forget the poor thai drug mules with their boyfriends asking them to carry a package...

[Nemesis7]

Yes there is huge racism exists in Thailand for sure. But mate those judge a person by their color are nothing but bunch of idiots. Don't mind them. Most people these days around the globe don't give a damn about race,color or religions, expect few dark hearted people and some politicians and yellow journalists.

[lostmebike]

I do not really understand from OP what exactly they are saying or doing to make them racist ?

Personally I could not care less what half tattooed shaved head, drunk, uneducated peasant thinks of me or talks about me.

Anyone with half a brain can see the deal, and those who can not are not worth my time

So what's the problem with a shaved head?

[rgs2001uk]

We become what we think we are.

Judging from your posts, I'd say you see yourself as a victim, ergo ….

Five months in Thailand means you know all of how to order a few dishes at a restaurant. post again in a few years.

Surprised it took this long for the original OP subject to get tossed aside and the Thainess snobbism to rear it's ugly head. I've been here longer than you......nah nah nah ad nauseum.

No doubt the class distinction will kick in soon where people are described as lo-so, hi so etc. We can thank the British for that particular export.

I am so glad I came from a country where this crap was disposed of years ago.

Oh great nice to see you entering into the spirit of things with a bit of sterotyping yourself.

Take a pop at the Brits time is it?

Never heard of hiso or loso 'til I came here, maybe we should thank our hosts for that.

Never been to a country yet that didnt have some form of snobbery or snobs.

Where is this mythical country that disposed of it years ago, posting from Cuba, Venezuela or Nth Korea are we?

[Luislo]

Related to this post (and this being my first post on this page). I would like to share an episode of discrimination, not exactly racism, that happened to me. I've never experience any discrimination here in Thailand besides this and I've been here for almost 8 months. Maybe because I look "white" but I do not consider myself "white" in any case.

Well, I am from Chile and what happened to me was that I called to ask about an apartament. First my girlfriend called (she is from TH) and spoke in thai with the receptionist; and she gave her all the information, when I could move in, etc. But when she asked about the nationality and my girlfriend said "Chile", she said they would not accept anyone from "those countries". - It was quite funny because she took some time to look where Chile is -

That's when I was completely enraged, I took the phone and spoke to the receptionist. She, as if was something completely normal, said: "If you had called me, I would have said that we have no availability, because that is what we do in these situations" ... she did not understood any reasons, I said that I can provide a police check or whatever if they want it, etc. I understand for many thai racism or discrimination is something "normal". The same happens in South America, often understood by the insecurity we lived with, but you can always take some precautions (bond, police check, ask for the type of visa and a long etc.). I lived in Australia where I never experience any discrimination about my nationality, so this situation left quite angry.
By the way the name of the place is UD Tower Mansion, they have a few buildings around Victory Monument area http://www.thebestmansion.com/udmansion/?lang=2 is their website.

[Hecate]

Sorry to hear that you have been experiencing this,OP. I overheard some of the worst racism ever directed toward Martin Luther King from an older white European expat. I felt bad because I didn't challenge the guy, but he lived in my building and would have made me pay for it. (I'm female.) Even his sleazy friends seemed embarrassed. There definitely are some low-life expats, but most are not too bad. Don't let the bastards grind you down.

[lostmebike]

Related to this post (and this being my first post on this page). I would like to share an episode of discrimination, not exactly racism, that happened to me. I've never experience any discrimination here in Thailand besides this and I've been here for almost 8 months. Maybe because I look "white" but I do not consider myself "white" in any case.

Well, I am from Chile and what happened to me was that I called to ask about an apartament. First my girlfriend called (she is from TH) and spoke in thai with the receptionist; and she gave her all the information, when I could move in, etc. But when she asked about the nationality and my girlfriend said "Chile", she said they would not accept anyone from "those countries". - It was quite funny because she took some time to look where Chile is -

That's when I was completely enraged, I took the phone and spoke to the receptionist. She, as if was something completely normal, said: "If you had called me, I would have said that we have no availability, because that is what we do in these situations" ... she did not understood any reasons, I said that I can provide a police check or whatever if they want it, etc. I understand for many thai racism or discrimination is something "normal". The same happens in South America, often understood by the insecurity we lived with, but you can always take some precautions (bond, police check, ask for the type of visa and a long etc.). I lived in Australia where I never experience any discrimination about my nationality, so this situation left quite angry.

By the way the name of the place is UD Tower Mansion, they have a few buildings around Victory Monument area http://www.thebestmansion.com/udmansion/?lang=2 is their website.

My friend, I'm as white as they come and have been turned away at least 3 or 4 times in 15 years. Apparently some places don't let foreigners stay. I can remember one place was a complete <deleted> hole too, in Nakorn Sawan. It's closed now!

[Hecate]

maybe something to do with all those nigerian 411 scams you hear about, or the ones getting caught for selling whatever illegal ?

and lets not forget the poor thai drug mules with their boyfriends asking them to carry a package...

Not all blacks are criminals, mate. The ones that are don't justify racism.

[kimbathewhitelion]

Racism is strong against all non-whites (i.e. color, not region or country) with Thais and throughout Asia & Japan. You're just to green to see it. As far as Expat racism goes, yes of course, need just look at the countries they come from & more so their respective histories.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[pistachios]

During France's presidential election, the far right's candidate got a lot of votes from french expats in Thailand. This party, the "front national" has been openly racist and antisemitist in the past, and has always been anti-immigration. They toned it down a little but the core of its voters is still skinheads, the army, catholics freaks and so on.

Now, not all of those voters are racists, some of them are just taking the piss, but it's safe to say that most of them are racist.

When you look at the expats vote, countries by countries, in pretty much every country in the world that candidate got a very low score. It seems logical that expats are more travelled and more open minded that the rest of the population, especially concerning immigration since they are immigrants themselves.

Except for Thailand. For some reason, especially in Pattaya where the extreme right's candidate got a huge score (35%!), Thailand seems to attract a different breed of expats than other countries. So I'm not very surprised that a black person could feel racism from expats in this country.

[benalibina]

Low IQ combined with a low EQ is a dangerous combination. Everywhere in the world.

[vincentc]

I have a condo in Bangkok that i rent out. I got a no black, no indian, no russian policy. I do not consider myself racist.

I got arab friends at home who would not rent out to their own people.

Before you criticise me: would you - honestly - allow any 'race' in your property or have you got 'slight preferences' ?

[lostmebike]

I have a condo in Bangkok that i rent out. I got a no black, no indian, no russian policy. I do not consider myself racist.

I got arab friends at home who would not rent out to their own people.

Before you criticise me: would you - honestly - allow any 'race' in your property or have you got 'slight preferences' ?

Valid point

[Suradit69]

Yes, so many expats have nothing good to say about Thais about whom they generalize appallingly....

... and Indians, Chinese, Russians, Africans ...

For some people it's all about :

Edited February 21, 2014 by Suradit69

[HardenedSoul]

You obviously don't have a clue what the Thais will be saying about you behind your back. If you think a few idiot expats constitutes racism, you have no idea.

What the Thais say about me behind my back simply doesn't matter because, rest assured, they'll be saying something similarly derogatory about a white guy.

As a black guy, I've not found Thais to be racist towards me after nearly 6 years living here.

Sure, some of them stare a bit but in my experience, that has been based on sheer curiosity as evidenced by the typical barrage of questions that follow an introduction ranging from how I acquired my English accent to why is my skin tone lighter than the Africans they see or are one of my parents white or mixed race.

I've said several times here that any real racism I've personally experienced here has come from white people.

They feel like they can get away with it because there's no PC mechanism to mete out punishment by way of a fine or whatever but, on two occasions - two too many, I hasten to add - I've had to set them straight in a manner they found . . . uncomfortable.

[Frank James]

I took a course in race relations long ago in the 70's. The professor was a very radical, well educated, articulate black man, sort of a Cornell West type. He proudly self-identified as BLACK, not African-American. He said that "racism" has very little to do with peoples' individual prejudicial feelings against others of different races/skin color. Rather, racism is an organized subtle system of oppression, designed to keep the ruling class on top, and the underclass in their place. Such things as denying loans for homebuyers trying to buy into certain 'protected' neighborhoods. Such things as the police going a lot heavier on dark skinned 'offenders', who often just happened to be outside their approved territory. In this professor's case, it meant denying him tenure at the university, even though his scholarship was impeccable, as were his academic credentials. He was just rocking the boat too much, and being too hard on the liberal establishment that ran the place, hurting their feelings by saying they were part of the racist setup.

That class was tough. If you were white, and spoke up in class, you had better be ready to defend your position. If you were black, he cut you a lot of slack, called you "brother", and referred to whites in general as "your oppressor." I enjoyed it very much, learned a lot, and will never forget the man.

In my five years here I have heard more than a few racially inflammatory remarks made by white people, who i know would be a lot more careful about running their mouths in their home country. I've seen it on here too, although not directed so much at black people in particular, it was more aimed at national groups.

OP, you sound like a young person. Enjoy your life, let the ignorant <deleted> be who they are, and rise above, with an indomitable spirit.

[NHT]

Go eat somewhere, go shopping, go here and there and spend your money. You will no find ONE THAI, who would not smile into your face and touch you and ...

But, don't spend as much as they hoped!

Or, even if you do, turn your back and if you'd have eyes on your back, you would see - too often, a different Thai.

Then, another, try get involved with some Thai, in any way you want, I don't care. Go, try it!

Then come back again, and say again, the expats are the racists!

Boy, you're either hyper naive and need to get a few hits first, or you are such a phlegmatic, that even ripping your tongue out - wouldn't bother you and you's only - write down, "I will no longer talk with you".

Let me clear that for you very simple. I have lived and worked on 4 continents, in too many countries with too many different cultures. Weighing all off, I need to say, Thailand is the most racist, discriminating, humiliating country of all of them. And it all stems back to their ... you'll find out!

- - -

Hey, sure there are some good Thai, too. Myself, I know a lot of them.

Speaking about "generalisation". Can one fair say, if more than 50% are like this or that, one can take this group, to call something as "in general". Tough life for the minority, but ij the majority is like that, it's up to the minority, to become the majority, to change the general status! Physical law, kids.

Think back in history. Not every German was a Nazi, yet, still today, after almost a century now, Germans are still called Nazis. So, It's quite fair, to call Thai, "notorious, indoctrinated, racist narcissist". Because most of them are.

As a "good" Thai told me once ... "man, never see the smile of a Thai, hear their heart beat". There's something true on that.

[Scarpolo]

possibly not racism against u but a sort of stereotyped racism that they ahve picked up from movies (boys in the hood ,yo yo types)... same as even though im israeli american jewish, my husband will often say antisemitic things like the 'jews/stingy' type thing, cause that is waht he has heard in his uneducated group of family and friends... and then he will go on to say people are people there are good ones and bad ones.

here he has had nigerian and sudanese friends, but doesnt like my daughter's ethiopian jewish boyfriend ... not skin colour but because the guy doesnt match my husband's idea of what a potential husband should act like.

he will make comments about arabs (nu... we live in a racist polarized society here) yet works wit arab workers and gets along no problem...

so it could be racist stereotyping from the television. as far as hiring, yes, thais are racists by colour. white =good perfect hi/so classy. black is low/society, not worth it... thais high aim is to have white underarm pits, legs, face etc... they love michael jackson...

i am still surprised that my hsuband chose a pure black pup out of our litter of lhasa apsos to raise, usually they dont want black dogs either...

It's true,

my g/f spends time every night putting some cream/drug on her face, where her dark marks are,

back home we called them "freckles"

here, its a sign of low class,

they want to be white, and as white as possible.

they see western women going topless at the beach and don't understand them

I think it is a national obsession, started by the cosmetics industry; directly, targeting naive thai girls as I have seen spas and clinics open everywhere, and it is only the young girls there, ages 30ish and below,

and for myself, as a white person of black sea heritage, I think this whiteness obsession is bordeline territory, as in, screwed up psychologically,

look on thai television, every news caster, and program host and all the models, look like death with a little makeup. no, with a lot of makeup,

they may look good to thai's

but to me, they do not

Edited February 21, 2014 by Scarpolo

[NHT]

Yes, so many expats have nothing good to say about Thais about whom they generalize appallingly....

... and Indians, Chinese, Russians, Africans ...

For some people it's all about :

Have you lived in these countries?

I lived in China(10y) and Thailand(1.5y)

I'd need to live in China for at least a hundred years, to pull par with racism as to the magnitude of that of Thailand!. Sure, Chinese are not that open as far as SEX is concerned, but apart from that - China is WIDE open, Thailand? "Closed"!

[squarethecircle]

maybe something to do with all those nigerian 411 scams you hear about, or the ones getting caught for selling whatever illegal ?

and lets not forget the poor thai drug mules with their boyfriends asking them to carry a package...

Not all blacks are criminals, mate. The ones that are don't justify racism.

It's not blacks, per se, that I think he is describing, but black Africans in Thailand. I don't think this is racist - in fact it seems like a reputation that's been earned...keep in mind that I wouldn't hesitate to befriend someone from Africa if they seemed decent, but the reputation for scams or other up-to-no-goodness I think is not racism. There have been some illegal immigrant round-ups in China lately (I recall in Guangzhou) and it seems many of those picked up have a similar origin - and they're not picked up for the country they are from, but for breaking the law. On the other hand, there is big legal business going on, so of course (as with all stereotypes), treat each individual as they come.

OP: Expats who come here are a "special" bunch...I've encountered my share of a--holes enough to avoid any f-rang who didn't specifically seem worth talking to (though I would do the same back in f-langistan). There also seems to be plenty who resent the racialist and PCist hysteria in most of the west now. Hell, the job I just applied to specifically stated they were looking for people with "diverse looks" and "females", which means if myself (one of those oh-so-hated white males) and a lesser qualified member of a "preferred" category were competing for the job, they would win. I myself resent being judged on such characteristics (as I don't think they have conferred some inherent "privilege"); there are plenty here who are effectively refugees from radical feminism or the like: here you can get wives who give food, cleaning, dishes, groceries, sex, etc (but stingier than Shylock when getting what they want out of you). So certainly there is a higher percentage of people with reversely polarized far-right-wing attitudes, and they take advantage of living here. There are also many like me who are more like libertarians or live-and-let-live types who also seem to enjoy the freedom here, but manage to be reasonable - maybe you should seek these types out? I myself try to avoid other f-rangs, except for certain areas that seem to attract good tourists/backpackers.

Then again, maybe you're just hanging out with a bunch of a-holes and your race is an obvious target to pick on.

(2)

But sounds like

[schondie]

It doesn't matter where you go in this world, there will always be someone who dislikes you (not you personally OP but everyone in general) for some reason or another.

We all have our distrusts or predudices of other nationalities or ethnic groups until we get to know and like each other. This is human nature.

Yes, there seems to be an inordinate amount of Thai and foreigner bashing westerners here but they won't go home to their supposed lands of pure joy. I don't understand why though.

[luis888]

Ten years in Thailand have never seen racism against anyone, except from Thais to anyone that isnt Thai. 2nd post in a month for the OP stating he feels racism exists, firstly from potential employees and now expats. Sometimes it isnt down to ones colour or culture that they are rejected or not particulary liked but down to the way the individual comes accross.......and sometimes it is imaginary. Would be nice OP if you post the 'highest forms of racism' you have experienced so wehave more of an idea what you are going through.

like no thai have ever called me a NIGGA, i dress well like a teacher that i'm. i have sat down with expats and they say,hey man what are u doing here (in Thailand) i reply i'm a teacher' i see they all looked each other..and one stupid one asked..'are u kidding me? what school? and i don't have a job?....i cant really count these meetings..i applied through and agency to get a teaching job, they bluntly told me that the agency will never put a black man on their radar..i told him i was in a school that don't really care about color but want to only take me if i had an agency buy they still refused

Why is it that a black person can call another one nigga but if someone else does it, it's racist

Edited February 21, 2014 by luis888

[Scarpolo]

There are groups of Nigerians here that may be the root of some of the black man's issue,

I wouldnt know though, but, I have seen them near Sukhumvit,

They are the only one's I have seen that can't take their eyes off my Rolex.

I have seen some Thai's also, that I am sure would roll me if they thought I was drunk enough to take down, or stupid enough to walk down the wrong street.

I do neither, but I did stop wearing it in bkk,

no problem where I live here, and I am not the only one dressed well, and carrying more than 100 baht