Tap water salty as seawater enters Chao Phraya

[webfact]

HEALTH
Tap water salty as seawater enters Chao Phraya
Jutarat Tipnumpa
The Nation



BANGKOK: -- To tackle the crisis of a massive amount of seawater in the Chao Phraya River that has led to salty tap water, a Water and Flood Management Commission sub-panel has adjusted the water-release plan and dispatched water-pushing boats.

A water-treatment system has been installed Siriraj Hospital to deal with the problem.

The sub-panel's chairman, Royol Chitradon, who is also director of the Hydro and Agro Informatics Institute, said the seawater issue was worse than last year.

Seasonal inflows of seawater from Sunday to Tuesday would worsen the situation, he said.

The increased saltiness has affected hospitals in need of fresh water, hence the Metropolitan Waterworks Authority's decisions to install an reverse-osmosis water-treatment station at Siriraj.

Water-pushing boats were also sent to the Prem Prachakorn and Lat Phrao canals to help add oxygen to the water.

To reduce the impact on the tap-water system, the opening of dam sluice gates needed to be in line with the seawater inflow level, Royol said.

He said that when sea tides rose, sluice gates would release more water, and when the tides dropped, the gates would narrow to release less water. This would help save water and solve the saltiness issue at the same time.

However, he said managing the problem remained tough, as water released from Chao Phraya Dam took seven days to reach Ayutthaya's Bang Sai district.

Besides adjusting the dam's sluice gates, the Royal Irrigation Department was using Lad Pho canal during a high-tide period.

Royol said the National Nanotechnology Centre would work with the Provincial Waterworks Authority to use a salt-water-treatment system to aid hospitals on the Bang Pakong River.

He said the release of water would also be adjusted at the Bang Pakong River's Klong Siyad and Khun Dan dams, while the Tha Chin River would receive fresh water from the Mae Klong River via the waterworks canal.

Over the next two weeks, the sub-panel will discuss May's water-management plan, the issue of low fresh water and other related issues.

Meanwhile, farmers in Phichit's Pho Prathap Chang district have lamented the shortage of water. In the Ban Hak Rot area, the Yom River is almost dry. Farmers are worried they will lose crops.

In the face of an imminent drought, locals have stopped cultivating off-season paddy fields.


-- The Nation 2014-02-22

[Thai at Heart]

Water pushers to separate salty and fresh water?ooooooooh, my aching ribs

Where is Moses?

[Bluespunk]

'Water-pushing boats were also sent to the Prem Prachakorn and Lat Phrao canals to help add oxygen to the water.'

If this is possible [i'm no expert but I can't see how it is, could be wrong though], what good will it do?

Edited February 21, 2014 by Bluespunk

[waza]

"Water-pushing boats were also sent to the Prem Prachakorn and Lat Phrao canals to help add oxygen to the water."

Because we all know that oxygen evaporates salt in Thailand.

Edited February 21, 2014 by waza

[Robby nz]

In the last week the CP river here has risen about half a meter from the lowest I have ever seen it, presumably from a dam being opened.

I had assumed it was to provide more water for farmers downstream but it would seem there is another reason.

This can only get worse as we are still not really into the dry season and dams are way down and rivers at the head of the catchment are drying up.

Can only get worse from here, going to be a bad year and when some thought it couldn't get worse nature takes a hand.

[Yunla]

The water-related problems here especially flooding and drought, are related to the fact that politicians don't concentrate on improving hard infrastructure and instead focus on important things like broken gadgets for kids, passports for larcenous relatives, and of course suing each other constantly. If all the money and effort that went into these kind of frivolous and childish antics went into building infrastructure, the water problems would be far less serious and the roads railways etc. would be modern and safe.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Yunla

[noitom]

This type of geographical issue would be an indicator that Thailand is sinking much faster than predicted.

[JohnThailandJohn]

'Water-pushing boats were also sent to the Prem Prachakorn and Lat Phrao canals to help add oxygen to the water.'

If this is possible [i'm no expert but I can't see how it is, could be wrong though], what good will it do?

I know salt water can't hold as much oxygen as fresh water and that oxygen via aeration is done in bodies of water to help clean contaminated water to help fish survive as well as increase the decomposition of organic type contaminants like raw sewage. Only a guess but they may be aerating for environmental reasons and not related to the drinking issue.

[Soutpeel]

"Water-pushing boats were also sent to the Prem Prachakorn and Lat Phrao canals to help add oxygen to the water."

Because we all know that oxygen evaporates salt in Thailand.

rotten rice absorbs large amounts of salt...

[impulse]

'Water-pushing boats were also sent to the Prem Prachakorn and Lat Phrao canals to help add oxygen to the water.'

If this is possible [i'm no expert but I can't see how it is, could be wrong though], what good will it do?

Substitute the words "portable pumps" for "water pushing boats" and you'll find they are used all over the world to manipulate water levels, water flow and aeration.

A boat's propeller is a type of axial flow pump. Not as power efficient as a purpose made axial flow pump, but you use what you have, not what you wish you had.

Edited February 22, 2014 by impulse

[canuckamuck]

No worries about drought, the government has done a fantastic job of ensuring year's of rice is already in storage.

Also the wizards of science have made another groundbreaking discovery related to boat propellers. Not only can they increase the speed of water in a massive river delta. They can also be used to remove salt. research is now being done to see if running in reverse can make freshwater salty.

And once again I am impressed with the photo included with the story. It really tells it all. Somewhere there is a herd of buffalo eating grass.

[Spalpeen]

I know salt water can't hold as much oxygen as fresh water and that oxygen via aeration is done in bodies of water to help clean contaminated water to help fish survive as well as increase the decomposition of organic type contaminants like raw sewage. Only a guess but they may be aerating for environmental reasons and not related to the drinking issue.

.

The amount of oxygen added by a boat prop would be so small it just wouldn't be worth doing. The term 'water pushing boats' also implies that they have some notion of pushing water around using boats.

The whole story displays a primary school level of understanding when it comes to water management. There must be civil engineers somewhere in Thailand with an understanding of water management but it seems the decisions are being taken by people with no grasp of what they're talking about.

[JRSoul]

One hopes the salt increase is from sea-water and not other sources. Does it perhaps have a hint of yellow?

[Soutpeel]

'Water-pushing boats were also sent to the Prem Prachakorn and Lat Phrao canals to help add oxygen to the water.'

If this is possible [i'm no expert but I can't see how it is, could be wrong though], what good will it do?

Substitute the words "portable pumps" for "water pushing boats" and you'll find they are used all over the world to manipulate water levels, water flow and aeration.

A boat's propeller is a type of axial flow pump. Not as power efficient as a purpose made axial flow pump, but you use what you have, not what you wish you had.

Er I can power a small model airplane with a elastic band attached the prop, but this doesnt mean an elastic band will power a full sized plane and get if off the ground....

a boats prop is nothing like an axial pump...

[bkkjames]

I can confirm the river is not infested with sharks yet or anything else living. Just garbage.

The tide comes in as normal and the river goes up a bit, nothing worth noting. Then it goes out. This happens 2x a day, apparently. Exciting stuff huh?

[fakename]

So hospitals need fresh water? I guess that the millions of people dont need fresh water, thats why nothing has really been done to solve this problem. Just put more water pushing boats on the river, and burn up a few million liters of fuel, great idea!

[impulse]

'Water-pushing boats were also sent to the Prem Prachakorn and Lat Phrao canals to help add oxygen to the water.'

If this is possible [i'm no expert but I can't see how it is, could be wrong though], what good will it do?

Substitute the words "portable pumps" for "water pushing boats" and you'll find they are used all over the world to manipulate water levels, water flow and aeration.

A boat's propeller is a type of axial flow pump. Not as power efficient as a purpose made axial flow pump, but you use what you have, not what you wish you had.

Er I can power a small model airplane with a elastic band attached the prop, but this doesnt mean an elastic band will power a full sized plane and get if off the ground....

a boats prop is nothing like an axial pump...

Nothing like it, eh?

Edited February 22, 2014 by impulse

[mojorison]

Hydro and Agro Informatics Institute...National Nanotechnology Centre... Good Lord, if they spent as much time solving problems as they do thinking up ridiculous names and acronyms, Thailand would be home and hosed. ROFLMFAO etc.

[JohnThailandJohn]

I know salt water can't hold as much oxygen as fresh water and that oxygen via aeration is done in bodies of water to help clean contaminated water to help fish survive as well as increase the decomposition of organic type contaminants like raw sewage. Only a guess but they may be aerating for environmental reasons and not related to the drinking issue.

.

The amount of oxygen added by a boat prop would be so small it just wouldn't be worth doing. The term 'water pushing boats' also implies that they have some notion of pushing water around using boats.

The whole story displays a primary school level of understanding when it comes to water management. There must be civil engineers somewhere in Thailand with an understanding of water management but it seems the decisions are being taken by people with no grasp of what they're talking about.

Boats are used all over for aeration just as fountains are as well as paddles that you find on some boats used to aerate water ..

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/31862249

[Spalpeen]

I know salt water can't hold as much oxygen as fresh water and that oxygen via aeration is done in bodies of water to help clean contaminated water to help fish survive as well as increase the decomposition of organic type contaminants like raw sewage. Only a guess but they may be aerating for environmental reasons and not related to the drinking issue.

.

The amount of oxygen added by a boat prop would be so small it just wouldn't be worth doing. The term 'water pushing boats' also implies that they have some notion of pushing water around using boats.

The whole story displays a primary school level of understanding when it comes to water management. There must be civil engineers somewhere in Thailand with an understanding of water management but it seems the decisions are being taken by people with no grasp of what they're talking about.

Boats are used all over for aeration just as fountains are as well as paddles that you find on some boats used to aerate water ..

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/31862249

.

The thing in the photo is an aerator mounted on floating pontoons, not a 'boat'. It's also highly inefficient. The only efficient way to add dissolved oxygen to water is by pumping compressed air through perforated pipes laid on the channel bed.

[impulse]

Hydro and Agro Informatics Institute...National Nanotechnology Centre... Good Lord, if they spent as much time solving problems as they do thinking up ridiculous names and acronyms, Thailand would be home and hosed. ROFLMFAO etc.

I agree in general about the studies, but here's what I love about improvisational engineering:

In the West:

1) Pay for a 6 month FEED study, and spend 2-3 years on an Environmental Impact Appraisal for installing axial pumps to aerate water to increase oxygen.

2) Qualify vendors and put out a 536 page tender document for Axial flow pumps that you'll need maybe one month every 2 years

3) Evaluate tenders, issue purchase documents, and wait 26 weeks to get your axial pumps made to your exact specifications

4) During those 26 weeks, issue a dozen change orders that will double the cost of the project and extend leadtime by another 13 weeks.

5) Install and commission the pumps.

6) Hearty handshakes all around for wisely spending $30 million tax dollars.

In Thailand:

1) See those boats over there; the ones we're not using right now to haul sugar cane?

2) Put 'em over there, tie 'em to a post, point their props downstream and fire them up.

3) When they're done, send 'em back to hauling sugar cane.

I'm a pump engineer by trade, and I stand in awe at the simplicity and "git 'er done" mentality. And, in spite of how funny it sounds to westerners, it's not a bad plan.

[impulse]

The thing in the photo is an aerator mounted on floating pontoons, not a 'boat'. It's also highly inefficient. The only efficient way to add dissolved oxygen to water is by pumping compressed air through perforated pipes laid on the channel bed.

And yet, as I recall, every one of the hundreds of fish farms and water treatment plants I've ever visited use surface agitation to aerate their water.

Some use paddles, some use propellers, some use waterfalls, and some use fountains- but every single one uses physical agitation. Possibly because you need to aerate the water, and then move it around so all the water is aerated.

It may be highly inefficient, (I'm not an aeration guy) but it's very practical. Probably why it's the preferred method of Mother Nature. I've never seen a natural air compressor, but I've seen lots of naturally aerated water.

Edited February 22, 2014 by impulse

[AbuBacon]

Must be the excellent water management policies instigated since the 60's at work again

Sent from my Lenovo A516 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Estrada]

I know salt water can't hold as much oxygen as fresh water and that oxygen via aeration is done in bodies of water to help clean contaminated water to help fish survive as well as increase the decomposition of organic type contaminants like raw sewage. Only a guess but they may be aerating for environmental reasons and not related to the drinking issue.

.

The amount of oxygen added by a boat prop would be so small it just wouldn't be worth doing. The term 'water pushing boats' also implies that they have some notion of pushing water around using boats.

The whole story displays a primary school level of understanding when it comes to water management. There must be civil engineers somewhere in Thailand with an understanding of water management but it seems the decisions are being taken by people with no grasp of what they're talking about.

Boats are used all over for aeration just as fountains are as well as paddles that you find on some boats used to aerate water ..

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/31862249

.

The thing in the photo is an aerator mounted on floating pontoons, not a 'boat'. It's also highly inefficient. The only efficient way to add dissolved oxygen to water is by pumping compressed air through perforated pipes laid on the channel bed.

As an expert in aeration technology I would agree that this rotating sieve aerator is very inefficient, whereas using fine bubble diffusers at depth are very much more efficient. However, this aerator was designed by his Royal Majesty so we should respect his achievement. To be pedantic, aeration of the salty water using floating aerators/pushing boats would increase evaporation loss and increase the salt concentration of the water. There is a plan to install a barrage similar to that on the River Thames to control the tidal inflow of sea water which when it is built would help alleviate flooding and control the ingress of salty water.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Estrada

[Spalpeen]

The thing in the photo is an aerator mounted on floating pontoons, not a 'boat'. It's also highly inefficient. The only efficient way to add dissolved oxygen to water is by pumping compressed air through perforated pipes laid on the channel bed.

And yet, as I recall, every one of the hundreds of fish farms and water treatment plants I've ever visited use surface agitation to aerate their water.

Some use paddles, some use propellers, some use waterfalls, and some use fountains- but every single one uses physical agitation. Possibly because you need to aerate the water, and then move it around so all the water is aerated.

It may be highly inefficient, (I'm not an aeration guy) but it's very practical. Probably why it's the preferred method of Mother Nature. I've never seen a natural air compressor, but I've seen lots of naturally aerated water.

.

Surface aeration is indeed widely used and it does an adequate job. A boat prop is useless as an aerator because it's designed to push water horizontally without entraining air. Compressed air through perforated pipes is by far the most efficient way of getting oxygen into water because you can control the bubble size and pressure.

I am, as it happens, an aeration guy.

[Spalpeen]

As an expert in aeration technology I would agree that this rotating sieve aerator is very inefficient, whereas using fine bubble diffusers at depth are very much more efficient. However, this aerator was designed by his Royal Majesty so we should respect his achievement. To be pedantic, aeration of the salty water using floating aerators/pushing boats would increase evaporation loss and increase the salt concentration of the water. There is a plan to install a barrage similar to that on the River Thames to control the tidal inflow of sea water which when it is built would help alleviate flooding and control the ingress of salty water.

.

I see what you mean now. It is indeed a great aerator design. I was puzzled why anyone would want to make a bronze statue of a surface paddle aerator.

[impulse]

Surface aeration is indeed widely used and it does an adequate job. A boat prop is useless as an aerator because it's designed to push water horizontally without entraining air. Compressed air through perforated pipes is by far the most efficient way of getting oxygen into water because you can control the bubble size and pressure.

I am, as it happens, an aeration guy.

Now I'm curious why every facility I've ever visited uses physical agitation. I suspect that compressed air may be the most efficient way to get oxygen into the water, but not the most cost effective. Compressing air is expensive, and getting that compressed air to where you need it isn't cheap.

A conventional boat prop is probably useless, but not every prop is a boat prop, nor is every boat prop designed to run without entraining air. This water looks pretty nicely aerated.

On a more applicable note, here's an example of a prop aerator at work

Edited February 22, 2014 by impulse

[Spalpeen]

Surface aeration is indeed widely used and it does an adequate job. A boat prop is useless as an aerator because it's designed to push water horizontally without entraining air. Compressed air through perforated pipes is by far the most efficient way of getting oxygen into water because you can control the bubble size and pressure.

I am, as it happens, an aeration guy.

Now I'm curious why every facility I've ever visited uses physical agitation. I suspect that compressed air may be the most efficient way to get oxygen into the water, but not the most cost effective. Compressing air is expensive, and getting that compressed air to where you need it isn't cheap.

A conventional boat prop is probably useless, but not every prop is a boat prop, nor is every boat prop designed to run without entraining air. This water looks pretty nicely aerated.

.

There are few things less energy efficient than an offshore power boat. Many prawn farms in Thailand do indeed use submerged air pipes to aerate the water. It's just that, because you can see a surface paddle splashing away but can't see underwater pipes, you get the impression that paddles are the only game in town.

[impulse]

There are few things less energy efficient than an offshore power boat.

True, but they're fun to watch....

Probably no less efficient than a bunch of guys and their entourage expending all that energy to whack a 46 gram ball around a field- and infinitely more entertaining (to me anyway) than watching an afternoon of it.

But I digress.

[Soutpeel]

'Water-pushing boats were also sent to the Prem Prachakorn and Lat Phrao canals to help add oxygen to the water.'

If this is possible [i'm no expert but I can't see how it is, could be wrong though], what good will it do?

Substitute the words "portable pumps" for "water pushing boats" and you'll find they are used all over the world to manipulate water levels, water flow and aeration.

A boat's propeller is a type of axial flow pump. Not as power efficient as a purpose made axial flow pump, but you use what you have, not what you wish you had.

Er I can power a small model airplane with a elastic band attached the prop, but this doesnt mean an elastic band will power a full sized plane and get if off the ground....

a boats prop is nothing like an axial pump...

Nothing like it, eh?

OK, we have a picture of an axial pump...now picture a boat in a wide deep river per the Chao Phraya...can you see the differencein the physics ?

Using your approach, I can say an axial pump is similar to a helicopter...