NSC says Armed Forces may cite Rajaprasong bomb attack to impose martial law

[SICHONSTEVE]

This has been rehashed ad nauseum. Last time OK.

It has been shown by the PTP that democracy ceases post ballot box. That is where democracy should begin.

Elections should be free and fair. They are not.

Before and now a narrow supporter base was / is being manipulated to ensure electoral victory. That is a dictatorship. A democracy is an ability to appeal to a broad section of the population. Not just rice farmers.

The majority of Thai's realize this and to make it a reality, reform is needed before the next election lest in 10 to 20 years time that narrow voter base is manipulated again and we go back to square one. I cannot speak for the Thai's and I don't purport to, but if the PTP win after the reform my wife who is a supporter of all the principles of democracy would herald the win a success of democracy knowing full well there will be no abuse of power, no blatant corruption, no ramming through amnesties against the will of the majority and no telling voters "you will get what you want when you vote for us" and as is indicated from the last 2 tragic days a brutal repression of peaceful protesting that is more akin to Iraq than Thailand where the UDD supporters laugh and cheer when they realize the opposition have been killed and maimed. That's not the democracy I am used to.

I look forward to a true real democracy. The one that is defined in the dictionary. Not the principle called election. People always harp on about elections as if that is it. Start finish and middle of democracy. Yet they stay silent on the abuses that the PTP perpetuated when they held power. Whether it is silent or ignorance is still out with the jury, but suffice to say only one principle is only ever repeated here. One. Democracy is more than one.

Al- Bashir won the last election with 68% of the vote I believe (I think?) He has ruled Sudan since 1989, al-Bashir is wanted by the International Criminal Court for war crimes and crimes against humanity, namely in the Darfur region. 2.7 million people are believed to have been displaced since 2003 as a result of his military campaign against the Darfur rebels. He was elected. I would suggest they need reform as well, but some would suggest that because he was elected by the majority this not need be the case. It is.

Cheers.

I suggest that the reds on this forum read this as they might learn something!!!

They will never learn.

I talked to some anti government and many don't want a coup. They don't think the military can do the reforms needed. They say it wont solve a thing and only helps Taksin to look good as she is the kicked out. Of course not all anti government protesters think like that they are a large group.

As like with your wife many do support elections after reforms they just dont accept the blatant corruption and use of power of this government tougher laws would change that and transparency and checks and balances too.

Take away the money from politics and Thailand wont have these fights the reds want to be in power to rape Thailand, perhaps the yellows too.. but with good laws neither can.. and then they wont fight for the money. Makes a lot of sense.. except for the reds as they are in power and have the most to loose. The yellows do not as they are not in power, who knows they might protest too if they were in power. But the fact is... too much corruption by the government is a big part of this problem.

Plus of course the amnesty that would bring dear leader back and kill 25.000!!! corruption cases.... never forget that.. that is what got this ball rolling.. the arrogance of the government and the fact that they wanted to whitewash corruption.

I'm not a red supporter but I am a democracy supporter, and I've learned that the people who think anything anti-Thaksin is good have no viable alternative to elected government. But they are willing to take a chance--hand government over to Suthep or the military and optimistically assume things will be better.

I am tired of repeating this.

Suthep IS NOT trying to take over the power.

1). He wants Yingluck to step down and walk away.

2). He wants a neutral and balanced body/committee to be set up to put in meaningful and needed reforms that make it a level playing field (maybe take 1 year to 18 months to achieve) NB: ideally, the number of MP (political) representatives should be a small one (5 - 10% total) taken from ALL sides of the political spectrum.

3). Hold free and fair elections after having implemented the reforms (populist policies will be outlawed) - this can be achieved by having them vetted through the formation of a new similarly balanced committee, set up to check each party's manifestos prior to the election.

4). Whichever party wins the elections will be free to implement those policies in their mandates and must not deviate from this without good reason and should govern by the rule of parliament and the law.

[heybruce]

I suggest that the reds on this forum read this as they might learn something!!!

They will never learn.

I talked to some anti government and many don't want a coup. They don't think the military can do the reforms needed. They say it wont solve a thing and only helps Taksin to look good as she is the kicked out. Of course not all anti government protesters think like that they are a large group.

As like with your wife many do support elections after reforms they just dont accept the blatant corruption and use of power of this government tougher laws would change that and transparency and checks and balances too.

Take away the money from politics and Thailand wont have these fights the reds want to be in power to rape Thailand, perhaps the yellows too.. but with good laws neither can.. and then they wont fight for the money. Makes a lot of sense.. except for the reds as they are in power and have the most to loose. The yellows do not as they are not in power, who knows they might protest too if they were in power. But the fact is... too much corruption by the government is a big part of this problem.

Plus of course the amnesty that would bring dear leader back and kill 25.000!!! corruption cases.... never forget that.. that is what got this ball rolling.. the arrogance of the government and the fact that they wanted to whitewash corruption.

I'm not a red supporter but I am a democracy supporter, and I've learned that the people who think anything anti-Thaksin is good have no viable alternative to elected government. But they are willing to take a chance--hand government over to Suthep or the military and optimistically assume things will be better.

I am tired of repeating this.

Suthep IS NOT trying to take over the power.

1). He wants Yingluck to step down and walk away.

2). He wants a neutral and balanced body/committee to be set up to put in meaningful and needed reforms that make it a level playing field (maybe take 1 year to 18 months to achieve) NB: ideally, the number of MP (political) representatives should be a small one (5 - 10% total) taken from ALL sides of the political spectrum.

3). Hold free and fair elections after having implemented the reforms (populist policies will be outlawed) - this can be achieved by having them vetted through the formation of a new similarly balanced committee, set up to check each party's manifestos prior to the election.

4). Whichever party wins the elections will be free to implement those policies in their mandates and must not deviate from this without good reason and should govern by the rule of parliament and the law.

"Suthep IS NOT trying to take over the power."

Of course not, he just wants to topple an elected government and dictate what replaces it.

"1). He wants Yingluck to step down and walk away."

And he doesn't want to go to the trouble of elections or courts to get her out of office.

"2). He wants a neutral and balanced body/committee to be set up to put in meaningful and needed reforms that make it a level playing field (maybe take 1 year to 18 months to achieve) NB: ideally, the number of MP (political) representatives should be a small one (5 - 10% total) taken from ALL sides of the political spectrum."

But he hasn't specified who will elect these committee people, what guarantees there will be that they will step down in a specified time, what kind of reforms they should implement to eliminate corruption, why an election process that currently reflects the choice of the voters needs to be reformed, or, most important, why he and his mob should be allowed to dictate this process.

"3). Hold free and fair elections after having implemented the reforms (populist policies will be outlawed) - this can be achieved by having them vetted through the formation of a new similarly balanced committee, set up to check each party's manifestos prior to the election."

This kind of reminds me of the Supreme Leader of Iran, an unelected cleric who decides who can run for election and can overrule any elected official. Who's going to choose this committee? And who decides what is a populist policy? Government provided pensions, health care, public education, agricultural support, and many other accepted programs throughout the world can be called populist; will Thailand have none of these? Currently a significant amount of the Democrats support is in Bangkok, which in 2012 received 72% of government spending in spite of having only 17% of the countries population (http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2012/05/10/thailand-public-finance-management-review-report). Of course people in Bangkok are appalled by this, their share used to be 90%, but it seems like populism to me. Do you think your committee will slash this funding?

"4). Whichever party wins the elections will be free to implement those policies in their mandates and must not deviate from this without good reason and should govern by the rule of parliament and the law."

I see, you have elections to maintain the appearance of democracy, but the traditional elites still control what the government can do.

Sorry, I don't think the majority of Thailand's people will buy into this.

Edited February 25, 2014 by heybruce

[oldsailor35]

Since the so-called government has done nothing to prevent the continuous violence being perpetrated against the protestors and those perceived to be aligned with the protestors, and indeed may very well be tacitly complicit, I for one would welcome the imposition of martial law. Democracy is a wonderful ideal, but in Thailand it has become a euphemism for kleptocracy in the guise of serving the national interest.

OMG ! don't you read the press. According to the courts, the government are 'not' allowed to take measures against anyone. This is what comes of having courts who favour one particular side.

[oldsailor35]

When one views the current scenario here in Thailand one is led to wonder whether or not there is any rule of law any consensus of opinion as to how the current situation should or could be handled and is there any light at the end of the tunnel?

So many different agenda's coming from those who claim to be in power whether as political caretakers or both military or police bystanders.

In reality we here in Thailand are but one small step from anarchy, the result of that step could indeed be a bloody one as the current train of events clearly show us in a very graphic manner with the murder of innocents as the cost of a political goal by all factions involved in the matters.

How many sides are involved one must ask?

We have one family driven group intent on retaining and consolidating their grip on power no matter what the cost may be politically and socially.

We have a group of citizens who are very disgruntled with the levels of corruption of the the past administration led by a political firebrand who to my mind is but the figurehead as opposed to the power train of that group.

We then have the police farce force who seem to have an agenda of following whatever course of inaction they feel is in their best interests or their sponsors interest.

Then we have the old Red Shirt brigade sitting on the sidelines led by rather outdated socialists ideals totally at odds with the leader of the group they seem to support and the less than erudite Red Shirt leaders with sponsored political posts who in whatever passes for reality in their world seem as if they are not really sure what they want or who to follow

Lastly the military.

Well which way will they go ?

Difficult to say.

We may yet well end up with a military regime and martial law which perhaps although somewhat draconian might well be the way forward out of the mess we are now in here in Thailand.

If the last scenario where to happen we must hope that a ruling council of people is installed as a result of the military handing power over to a civilian administration composed of those who are selected for their love of Thailand and its peoples as opposed to a love for self gratification politically , financially ends and business wise.

such a council must have a mandated life of not more than three years and then a new general election process must be held.

As a result of a ruling councils efforts there has to be a weeding out of the political figures in Thailand who consider that Thailand and its peoples are their servants as opposed to the reality of the politicians being the public's servants.

Indeed the judgement and wisdom of Solomon would be challenged by such a daunting task as this one.

And you did miss the bit where a man called Suthep is trying to start a dictatorship for the benefit of the Hi-so Bangkok and Southern business community and to keep the lesser educated such as farmers and servants under the thumb !