Thai Gov. Health Plan for Farangs Totally Kaput?

[Pleas]

I'm one of the fortunate ones who signed up at Nakorngping Hospital early on. I paid my 2,200 Baht plus the 800 Baht for tests, etc. Got my card for one year of coverage with a 30 Baht co-pay. Fortunately, I haven't had to use it as of yet.

I heard yesterday, however, from a farang who went to Nakornping Hospital for treatment, that he was denied the use of his card and would receive his 2,200 Baht back as the plan is no longer being serviced. He was also told that those of us enrolled would be contacted and our enrollment fee returned.

Is anyone else aware of this turn of events? Hopefully it's not true, but???

[eyecatcher]

Seems they love their U turns here.

[mic6ard]

cheaper to pay back the 2,200 baht than covering the additional expenses.

the government need all the money they can right now.

[happyme]

I went on Friday to Hang dong Hospital no 1 said anything just have to wait and see TIT

[richardwrm]

Yes I understand the scheme is for migrant workers, not expats:)

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[BillyBobThai]

Same thing happened to me last week at Nakorngping Hospital. I was refered there from the hospital in San Patong for surgery.

Was told that I was no longer covered by the plan. Came back to Hang Dong hospital where I signed up and had blood work, Dr visit and meds, and only paid 30 baht.

The left hand does not always know what the right is doing.

[taotoo]

But both hands know that giving virtually free healthcare to westereners is probably not in the Thai taxpayer's best interests.

[onthedarkside]

Not really surprising.

[Mapguy]

Good question, OP. Although individual local reports may indeed be helpful, there is a pinned thread above that might be best to watch for the most accurate news thanks to Cheryl and NancyL., at least for Chiang Mai Province.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/683276-government-insurance-scheme-for-expats/

It is not surprising to read of different experiences at different hospitals if this is a recent switch in policy. I seem to recall that the original policy was interpreted differently in different locales around Thailand. So, stay tuned.

(By the way, the policy was/is to cover all foreigners, not just farang.)

Edited February 24, 2014 by Mapguy

[taotoo]

(By the way, the policy was/is to cover all foreigners, not just farang.)

Presumably the policy was/is to cover millions of minimum-wage Burmese/Laotian/Cambodians etc., not to subsidize people who have opportunities and assets these folk could only dream of.

[NancyL]

Lanna Care Net has indeed received word that Nakorn Ping hospital will no longer treat non-migrant worker foreigners who had enrolled in the program and those enrolled will receive a refund, but the details of the refund program have not yet been finalized.

It is interesting some in this thread report that other hospitals in the province may still be treating those they enrolled in the program.

[Oscar2]

(By the way, the policy was/is to cover all foreigners, not just farang.)

Presumably the policy was/is to cover millions of minimum-wage Burmese/Laotian/Cambodians etc., not to subsidize people who have opportunities and assets these folk could only dream of.

i'm sure that was indeed the case. some people took advantage of a legal loophole.

[Sheryl]

I don't think it is fair to say people took advantage of a loophole. A policy was issued that clearly stated it was for foreigners, full stop -- nothing about migrants or specific nationalities. To add to that, the office managing this for the MoPH in Bkk told people who called them asking, that indeed all foreigners were covered. So people (and the CM hospitals) were just following government instructions.

The central govt did not know what it was doing and communication even within the central MoPH was (and remains) very poor. Which is why in other parts of the country, some hospitals are still issuing the cards.

There is an intention to eventually come up with a system for residents expats and for tourists, it just hasn't been done yet (migrants were the first priority) and with the current political crisis I doubt it will be dealt with any time soon.

[gamini]

any one with a bit of sense should have realised that it was for migrant workers. It was not intended for expats to get multiple expensive operations or treatment for a couple of thousand baht a year. Those who did get a card took advantage of the system. There were many posts about this on TV including mine. which warned that it would not work out.

[Oscar2]

any one with a bit of sense should have realised that it was for migrant workers. It was not intended for expats to get multiple expensive operations or treatment for a couple of thousand baht a year. Those who did get a card took advantage of the system. There were many posts about this on TV including mine. which warned that it would not work out.

right. of course. but as Sheryl has pointed out - the government is working on a more realistic plan for ex-pats and another for tourists. it makes sense as so many are uninsured.

i doubt too many, if any, people had multiple expensive operations since the plan only went into effect in November or somewhere around there as i recall reading. government healthcare systems don't move too quickly.

and yes, with the current political crisis, i'm sure it's waaaay on the back burner.

[Mapguy]

Quote from Sheryl

There is an intention to eventually come up with a system for residents expats and for tourists, it just hasn't been done yet (migrants were the first priority) and with the current political crisis I doubt it will be dealt with any time soon.

Yes, that's the take on it that I have.

There are obvious doubts about an actuarially-sound plan that just covers older long-stay types. If you include the pool of incoming tourists, however, who would pay a modest entry fee for emergency health care, then the actuaries might actually come up with something that works. On the other hand, what might the consequences be long-term upon the rate of older retirees settling here? And on full moon parties !!!

And, Sheryl, I apologize for misspelling your name.

[NeverSure]

Those waiting for a refund can get in line behind the farmers waiting to be paid for rice.

[MAJIC]

But both hands know that giving virtually free healthcare to westereners is probably not in the Thai taxpayer's best interests.

Of course! 2,200 Baht annual fee was never a realistic cover. Perhaps raising it to somewhere nearer 15,000 to 20,000 (or more) may have given the proposed scheme a fighting chance.

[worgeordie]

Another great Government idea,that was never thought out before hand,

and will end up down the pan,if the Government did not waste so much

money on scams,err schemes,like rice subsidies,tablets for kids,and a

whole lot of other stuff that has brought Thailand to its knees, not even

taking into account the massive corruption that is going on,life would be

so much better for all Thais.

regards Worgeordie

[worgeordie]

Telephoned SanSai hospital and they say everything is normal,

they don't know anything about canceling the project.

regards Worgeordie

[mccw]

any one with a bit of sense should have realised that it was for migrant workers. It was not intended for expats to get multiple expensive operations or treatment for a couple of thousand baht a year. Those who did get a card took advantage of the system. There were many posts about this on TV including mine. which warned that it would not work out.

Yes; I recall meeting great hostility for stating the obvious too- that it was unaffordable to pay for all the sick old westerners at such a minor contribution level. Cancelation or massive fee hike were the only options; I'm glad they took the former rather than introducing mandatory cover at higher rates as a condition of non immigrant visa, for example.

[Sparkles]

any one with a bit of sense should have realised that it was for migrant workers. It was not intended for expats to get multiple expensive operations or treatment for a couple of thousand baht a year. Those who did get a card took advantage of the system. There were many posts about this on TV including mine. which warned that it would not work out.

Well I consider 2,800 baht spent at Hang Dong Hospital a wise investment. "Taking advantage of the the system ?" We didn't make the rules and I still see my regular GP but if I did have an accident it would be a major help. At 71 years young it is not easy to find an affordable insurance premium and even if only one years coverage its better than nothing.

Where did you get the idea,when implemented, it was for migrant workers only ???

[mimithewoof]

any one with a bit of sense should have realised that it was for migrant workers. It was not intended for expats to get multiple expensive operations or treatment for a couple of thousand baht a year. Those who did get a card took advantage of the system. There were many posts about this on TV including mine. which warned that it would not work out.

Yes; I recall meeting great hostility for stating the obvious too- that it was unaffordable to pay for all the sick old westerners at such a minor contribution level. Cancelation or massive fee hike were the only options; I'm glad they took the former rather than introducing mandatory cover at higher rates as a condition of non immigrant visa, for example.

I know a few 'sick old Westerners' who would have been more than happy to pay a more realistic price for the coverage offered - had they been given the opportunity, which it seems may now be off the table. Several would have had enough funds to cover a Thai medical insurance policy, had they not been a year or so older than the low limit here or had not been unfortunate enough to have existing complaints such as high blood pressure and other conditions not considered immediately life-threatening in the real world.

Others I'm aware of had funds in plenty until a certain Australian investment fund was mis-sold to them by an expat FA just before it went down.

We're all going to be 'sick old Westerners' sooner or later, guys, and you can be sure of one thing - by the time that happens, the likes of Ram etc, will have hiked their prices to levels to even those on USA pensions plus private pensions won't be able to afford. Perhaps then, the latest crop of incomers will happily refer to us as 'sick old Westerners' in a manner which could be considered as derogatory. What goes around comes around.

It's also a good idea to remember that even those on UK pensions here probably spend at least 5,000bht a week, probably more. Multiply that by an average stay of around 10 years minimum, then again by the number of retirees in Thailand, then add another 75 per cent to count in all you guys who can't live on less than 80,000-plus bht a month. Then there's the huge number of retired expats who support Thai wives and families with their pensions and savings but can't afford good old BUPA;'s extortionate charges. All that regular money contributes to the Thai economy as much as does as does the work which Burmese migrants do, mostly in the construction industry,. And, please consider, that money goes to the local economies, not just to BKK to be siphoned off.

Yes, migrant workers on pennies a week should have medical help, but a realistic charge per year for expats who've chosen to give to the country without taking anything out seems fair to me.

But, then again, TIT.

[harrry]

I think the thing is that although the Central Government pplan did include foreigners it is implimented locally. Privat hospitals and Doctors whio dominate the local decision making process have seen that it could be a revenue loss to them and hence in Chiang Mai which has many foreigners and many private hospitals it has stopped. In other areas it seems to be continuing.

[Rotweiler]

This OP would qualify as a rumour rather than fact. Just checked with my local hospital and they stated categorically that the plan is valid; has not be cancelled.

Please check your sources before starting a "scare rumour."

[Oscar2]

Others I'm aware of had funds in plenty until a certain Australian investment fund was mis-sold to them by an expat FA just before it went down.

Yes, migrant workers on pennies a week should have medical help, but a realistic charge per year for expats who've chosen to give to the country without taking anything out seems fair to me.

regarding the investment fund; this is about the 4th time i've heard this mentioned. is there any links to reading material about this? anyone?

some good points you raised mimithewoof. and i agree with you 100% about a realistic charge for a health care scheme for expats. we'll see what happens.

[mccw]

any one with a bit of sense should have realised that it was for migrant workers. It was not intended for expats to get multiple expensive operations or treatment for a couple of thousand baht a year. Those who did get a card took advantage of the system. There were many posts about this on TV including mine. which warned that it would not work out.

Yes; I recall meeting great hostility for stating the obvious too- that it was unaffordable to pay for all the sick old westerners at such a minor contribution level. Cancelation or massive fee hike were the only options; I'm glad they took the former rather than introducing mandatory cover at higher rates as a condition of non immigrant visa, for example.

I know a few 'sick old Westerners' who would have been more than happy to pay a more realistic price for the coverage offered - had they been given the opportunity, which it seems may now be off the table. Several would have had enough funds to cover a Thai medical insurance policy, had they not been a year or so older than the low limit here or had not been unfortunate enough to have existing complaints such as high blood pressure and other conditions not considered immediately life-threatening in the real world.

Others I'm aware of had funds in plenty until a certain Australian investment fund was mis-sold to them by an expat FA just before it went down.

We're all going to be 'sick old Westerners' sooner or later, guys, and you can be sure of one thing - by the time that happens, the likes of Ram etc, will have hiked their prices to levels to even those on USA pensions plus private pensions won't be able to afford. Perhaps then, the latest crop of incomers will happily refer to us as 'sick old Westerners' in a manner which could be considered as derogatory. What goes around comes around.

It's also a good idea to remember that even those on UK pensions here probably spend at least 5,000bht a week, probably more. Multiply that by an average stay of around 10 years minimum, then again by the number of retirees in Thailand, then add another 75 per cent to count in all you guys who can't live on less than 80,000-plus bht a month. Then there's the huge number of retired expats who support Thai wives and families with their pensions and savings but can't afford good old BUPA;'s extortionate charges. All that regular money contributes to the Thai economy as much as does as does the work which Burmese migrants do, mostly in the construction industry,. And, please consider, that money goes to the local economies, not just to BKK to be siphoned off.

Yes, migrant workers on pennies a week should have medical help, but a realistic charge per year for expats who've chosen to give to the country without taking anything out seems fair to me.

But, then again, TIT.

The market determines the cut off age and the price to be paid. So with out subsidy the government must have similar terms no? So it becomes a question of how much subsidy do we foreigners deserve.

I can think of ways to make it fairer; like emergency cover only and only after a certain number of years resident.

Bar emergencies everything should be a personal liability/ responsibility in my opinion- that applies to Thais and Falang land - west is going broke and will have to face the affordability / economic reality of the ageing populations (ie sick old westerners- fact , not meant in a derogatory way) and the endless medical advances prolonging life in ever more costly ways.

I'm 30s and don't expect the pension age will have raised to 90 or 95 by the time I get close to receiving anything and the health service will be bare bones basics. As it was when it was first introduced. The whole benefits socialist experiment of the post war generation is coming to an end.

Thailand enjoys low taxes; you like only 7% VAT don't you? And they general low cost of living?

If Thailand had all services and needed taxes to support all the "free" services the sick old westerners are nostalgic for then the price of labour and everything else would rise accordingly and you'd all have to bugger off to Africa or sum place where it's still cheap and then moan about the lack of "free" health care over there instead.

Nothing's for free and economic reality is better dealt with from the start rather than after it's all ready to collapse.

55

[mccw]

(Not all "have to" "bugger off" obviously- just illustrating my point in a colourful way. I am not meaning to be rude.)

On topic- I thought I read in the paper that can not be linked, a couple weeks ago, that the health insurance scheme would be discontinued for westerners as it was only meant for the migrant labour from adjacent countries. They said existing members would be honoured though

[BillyBobThai]

any one with a bit of sense should have realised that it was for migrant workers. It was not intended for expats to get multiple expensive operations or treatment for a couple of thousand baht a year. Those who did get a card took advantage of the system. There were many posts about this on TV including mine. which warned that it would not work out.

Well I consider 2,800 baht spent at Hang Dong Hospital a wise investment. "Taking advantage of the the system ?" We didn't make the rules and I still see my regular GP but if I did have an accident it would be a major help. At 71 years young it is not easy to find an affordable insurance premium and even if only one years coverage its better than nothing.

Where did you get the idea,when implemented, it was for migrant workers only ???

I also signed up at Hang Dong hospital but was told that this insurance would not cover for an accident, only normal health related problems.

[Wong!]

any one with a bit of sense should have realised that it was for migrant workers. It was not intended for expats to get multiple expensive operations or treatment for a couple of thousand baht a year. Those who did get a card took advantage of the system. There were many posts about this on TV including mine. which warned that it would not work out.

except, if you actually saw any of the videos from the meetings the provincial healthcare executives had with the insurance company who were underwriting all of this, it was clearly stated that it was for all foreigners.

Yes, it was badly thought out and instigated, but that par for the course.