Is escalating violence against protesters a tactical move by Thai govt?

[SOTIRIOS]

...just to wonder...when the press was to obvious about attacks on anti-government sites.....

...suddenly a few grenades were lobbed in the pro-government direction....but with absolutely no accuracy or effect....

...playing with the lives of Thais....playing with the very life of Thailand....

...and the ones to gain in this destructive scenario just seem like megalomaniacs......

[blaze]

The actual cost to the business community of this 'protest' has been huge. And going to get much worse There are more people than just the reds that would like to see the protests come to an end.

There are also those that are frustrated that the army is pussyfooting around instead of bringing out the tanks-- people with vested interests in such a scenario- people who simply love a man in uniform- and those who never much cared for civilian gov't in the first place.

What is surprising is how few deaths there have been considering the availability of war weapons in this country. These seem more like symbolic acts- and my estimation of those boys in the park- is that no way are they going to pack their bags and head south just because of some random shots at their camps.

So probably it is a tactical move-- but by who?

[mrtoad]

The Violence was stated by the PDRC, they are the only one that can gain from it!

Cheers

Would you care to provide solid evidence on this?

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[TechnikaIII]

Well, now we know what Equifinality and Multifinality purportedly mean. Not sure where that gets us, though. As far as the stages of grief-- even Elizabeth Kubler-Ross disowned her neat theory as she was exiting this mortal coil.

Me, I'm hoping the Thai people can hold on through actions of extremists and find a middle where they can move forward from. The shootings-- especially of kids-- are the ultimate cowardice. Surely most Thais are reaching the point where they are weary of conflict.

Hoping with all my heart for a de-escalation.

There is no "find a middle" for as long as any Shinawatra has any presence in Thai government. Yes we all want a termination of hostilities. It can only be brought about by the army removing the PM. The sooner the better for everyone. Maybe you have not seen the quality of the people in the protest crowds. I have been amongst them on several occasions. They are not the militant, aggressive <deleted> as are those shooting at us, Redshirts, both thugs and uniformed 'police', working together. It's a very bad situation.

[djjamie]

The rice pledging scam and the tragic deaths directly caused by it, are enough to hang PTP from the highest yardarm in the port.

If the true facts and figures of this scam somehow escaped the shredder, and come to light, Yingluck and others would be looking at jailtime under a serious legal system. This is my opinion, not statement of fact.

Then there's the other half-dozen charges I personally would expect to see PTP face, but they are now relatively minor really, the rice scam is the centrepiece of their downfall.

Agree with other posters that war-drums etc. is the desperation of a cornered animal. Trapped creatures always become suddenly ferocious.

Tragic Deaths directly caused by the Rice Pledging Policy

Which deaths were these then, Yunla? I presume you can't mean the suicides of rice farmers, tragic as they are, as being a result of the Rice Subsidy scheme?

The Mental Health Department sent a team to investigate the causes of the suicides of 13 rice farmers during the past few weeks.

Department deputy director-general Dr Panpimol Wipulakorn said the investigation found that nine of them had committed suicide because they owed a large number of informal debts. Three committed suicide as they had been suffering from congenital diseases. The remaining farmer's suicide could not be linked to the rice-pledging scheme.

"We found that the main risk factors for committing suicide were mental-health problems, physical ailments and family problems. Economic problems caused by large informal debts was also a main factor leading them to commit suicide," Panpimol said.

The rice farmers who committed suicide were aged between 40 and 60. Most had complained of feeling depressed and frustrated. Some had harmed themselves or tried to commit suicide on previous occasions.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/webmobile/national/Rice-scheme-woes-not-major-factor-in-suicides-agen-30227201.html

Unfortunately suicide is a daily occurance, with a whole myriad of factors that might be involved in the persons head.

To use it for political gain in any instance, is disgusting.

Yes Yunia you are completely correct. I would have actually quoted the same OP as the poster offering a rebuttal.

The OP quoted reiterates the farmers committed suicide due to the rice scheme though you have to look past the demagoguery to see that.

Let me explain if I may;

Arguments unrelated to a discussion

Unrelated facts — bringing unrelated facts that sound in favor of the speaker's agenda. For example, marking a vegetable or cereal product as "cholesterol free". Since cholesterol is only found in animal products, such labeling does not actually distinguish this product from similar competitors.

In this case looking at this article and keep in mind that there have been 9 suicides directly related to the rice scheme (This is consistent with the family members of the victims saying their family members committed suicide due to owing money because of the rice scheme); Notice the bits underlined.

Department deputy director-general Dr Panpimol Wipulakorn said the investigation found that nine of them had committed suicide because they owed a large number of informal debts. Three committed suicide as they had been suffering from congenital diseases. The remaining farmer's suicide could not be linked to the rice-pledging scheme.

The underlined bit is the bit we are interested in. This is the nine farmers that have committed suicide due to debts. All 9 suicides 3 of which I have provided links for below and after interviews with the families show they refer to the rice scheme and having no money as the reason for suicide. We all know they borrowed off loan sharks (informal debt) so this is truth. The other bits are for the gullible trying to get us off the root truth and bewilder us with UNRELATED FACTS. As is shown in the above defense, by the poster, this demagogue technique has worked a treat on them.

Three committed suicide as they had been suffering from congenital diseases. I am sure they are correct. We knew this had nothing to do with the rice scheme though. We have already got the nine that was related. This is an unrelated fact.

The remaining farmer's suicide could not be linked to the rice-pledging scheme. Remaining? What 10, 50, 100? Either way you are still correct. We knew this had nothing to do with the rice scheme though. This is an unrelated fact.

This allows the govt dept to shift the blame away from them while still slipping the truth in there.

They nearly got me on this one.

When the flagship policy of the PTP is causing farmers to commit suicide is disgusting.

Here is a couple of examples.

"When the (rice) payments stopped, he couldn't eat, he couldn't sleep," Ms. Thongbai said, kneeling next to his coffin. "He couldn't stop worrying about it. In the end it was just too much for him." http://online.wsj.co...0377530118.html

It was a question rice farmer Thongma Kaisuan often asked friends, when they talked about debt caused by long-overdue government payments. No one thought he was serious.

Then his son-in-law saw him walk from his home outside the north-eastern city of Roi Et, carrying a rope. An hour later he was found hanging in these trees.. http://english.cntv....08/101895.shtml

Meanwhile... Pichit farmer commits suicide because rice mortgage payment worth 200,000 baht from Yingluck government is 4 months overdue. http://www.tnews.co....tml/news/79472/

Of course yingluck suggested that the inflation that swept over Thailand when the 300 baht minimum wage was implemented was not really inflation, but "was a figment of peoples imaginations due to the hot weather"

So of course some forum members will believe their trust in yingluck and simple demagogue techniques over facts.

Edited February 27, 2014 by djjamie

[hansnl]

What everybody seems to forget or not to see is that the Shinawatra family & clan are fighting for survival in Thailand.

This clan tried to "own" Thailand, and seem to loose the fight.

But Mr T does not want to give up, he craves power.

And for that he will do anything like throwing the country in a civil war, breaking up the country, attacks on anybody to install fear.

And for what it is worth, what is going on below the surface, we do not know and will probably never know.

[Bluespunk]

The Violence was stated by the PDRC, they are the only one that can gain from it!

Cheers

Nonsense and you know it.

NO, no nonsense , it is 100% PDRC who started, and the first aim was still ok , to overtrow the government and after that Suthep should have stepped down as he promised.

Elections should take place peaceful and the yellows should have tried to get the majority in a democratic way.

Then you could say they did not start, but the situation as is it now, facing a civil war is on Suthep his head.

Nonsense. Both sides are equally to blame for any violence that has occurred since these protests began. They have been on the peaceful. I don't agree with their continuance and I thought they should have ended after elections were called. However the violence is not the fault of just one side. It is a tactic that has been used by some, long before these protests ever began, in order to intimidate those who did not agree with them.

Why are you talking about the yellows? PAD is long gone.

[Bluespunk]

The Violence was stated by the PDRC, they are the only one that can gain from it!

Cheers

Nonsense and you know it.

Nonsense?

I can and will not accuse anyone without having proof. I am considering the following though: the attacks seem to have been carried out by professionals that knew what they were doing. Professional and army issued munition is being used. Suthep is supported by ex-generals (e.g. Anupong) with strong army connections. We know and have seen there are weapons being used by unknown people supporting the PDRC (Laksi). As long as YL is still in power, the red shirts have little to gain from escalation as opposed to the PDRC. No one has been caught. A PDRC protest leader was arrested and then freed by a 'mysterious' group of men.

Again, this does not prove anything. But to assume that all violence comes from one side only seems highly unrealistic. I at least consider the fact that there are certain forces at work that have a clear agenda. If it were ONLY just angry redshirts, surely some would have been caught by now (if not by the incompetent govt or incompetent police, then surely by PDRC guards or by the public). This smells...and it does not smell pretty. Get out of your biased bubbles...both of you!

Really, biased am I? I have condemned violence on both sides from the start. My reply was a response to a ridiculous assertion that one side alone is to blame for violence.

[slk350]

The Violence was stated by the PDRC, they are the only one that can gain from it!

Cheers

Yes, this is absuluty true !!!!!

Time will tell !!!!!

[sawadee1947]

The Violence was stated by the PDRC, they are the only one that can gain from it!

Cheers

I agree with you. If Suthep would have accepted new election - the result of course - there would be no need for further escalations and terrorism. This guy does'nt know the rules of democracy. All what happens now he should be blamed for!

[RJF]

The Violence was stated by the PDRC, they are the only one that can gain from it!

Cheers

Nonsense and you know it.

Nonsense?

I can and will not accuse anyone without having proof. I am considering the following though: the attacks seem to have been carried out by professionals that knew what they were doing. Professional and army issued munition is being used. Suthep is supported by ex-generals (e.g. Anupong) with strong army connections. We know and have seen there are weapons being used by unknown people supporting the PDRC (Laksi). As long as YL is still in power, the red shirts have little to gain from escalation as opposed to the PDRC. No one has been caught. A PDRC protest leader was arrested and then freed by a 'mysterious' group of men.

Again, this does not prove anything. But to assume that all violence comes from one side only seems highly unrealistic. I at least consider the fact that there are certain forces at work that have a clear agenda. If it were ONLY just angry redshirts, surely some would have been caught by now (if not by the incompetent govt or incompetent police, then surely by PDRC guards or by the public). This smells...and it does not smell pretty. Get out of your biased bubbles...both of you!

Really, biased am I? I have condemned violence on both sides from the start. My reply was a response to a ridiculous assertion that one side alone is to blame for violence.

My apologies if I misinterpreted your short reply. I don't know of any other or previous comments you made. I interpreted this particular comment to mean it was nonsense to assume the violence could come from the side of the PDRC, or that they would not gain from violence.

In any case, I think I made my point on this clear. I agree...no one can point fingers to one side without proof. I have my own theories but admit they are nothing more than that...theories.

[RJF]

12 January 2014: Protest leader Suthep Thaugsu-ban ruled out talks with the government in an interview published on Sunday but said he would stand down his movement if, as some fear, violence escalates and civil war looms. “If it becomes a civil war, I will give up. People’s life is precious for me,” he was reported as saying by the English-language Sunday Nation. “If someone instigates a civil war, I will tell the people to go home.”

Any follow up on this, or was he just making this up as he went along?

I find it incredible how people have such short term memories. Why anyone really interested in the future of Thailand would trust this man to deliver is beyond me. Pretty much the same goes for the Thaksin clan btw.

[JRSoul]

Escalating violence can only do damage to the caretaker government, what good does it do them?

Do you think 'smart' are 'vicious' are traits of the same people?

[JRSoul]

Escalating violence can only do damage to the caretaker government, what good does it do them?

What good did it do the red shirts to resort to widespread arson when they were defeated in 2010? Burning your own town halls and fire engine is not the work of intelligent, logical people, and I know red supporters who were absolutely disgusted by these actions.

[MaxLee]

Is escalating violence against protesters a tactical move by govt?

Yep, it will just force some high status politicians out of Thailand and expand Thaksin's network, for more Redshirt-brainwashing propaganda, because there are ENOUGH redshirt fanatics who would blindly follow the mercenary corruption money to lead the red masses into mindless wars for the sake of REDEMOCRACY.

No matter coup or not, the Thaksin-spirit will never just die away, the brainwashed reddies NOT affiliated with rice SCAM, will just simply fight back in battlefield Bangkok

[thaivapor]

Escalating violence can only do damage to the caretaker government, what good does it do them?

Rad the article again.

It explains all, and very well if you ask me.

These writers are not stupid people.

[Valentine]

The Violence was stated by the PDRC, they are the only one that can gain from it!

Cheers

Yes, this is absuluty true !!!!!

Time will tell !!!!!

I find it strange that you seem to think some exclamation marks will make your statement a fact, for which you have absolutely no proof. What does seem strange to me is how the violence escalated dramatically after Chalerm took control & after the war drums meeting. Actually it is not strange, IMO it simply means the pro government are getting increasingly desperate.

[Yunla]

Thanks for the block-quote from the Institute, which I too have already seen.

I would say to you that this statement by that agency is speculative and also delivered against a background of statements by other agencies such as tourism, transport etc. which famously downplays the reality of those situations.

I think we can lay out a basic situational analysis of cause and effect. Regardless of your underlying mental/physical problems, to compound them with having your crops taken and not paid for, leaving you in absolute poverty and being threatened by loan sharks who you could have repaid if your produce had been paid for, it doesn't take a maths wizard to add up those sums.

I think it is very sad that people try to downplay the impact on poor farmers' lives that nonpayment for produce, loan-borrowing and absolute poverty has had, and the denial of the causal relationship to their tragic suicides is at best far-fetched, and at worst a cheap attempt at redirecting the blame onto the victims.

This has been done to death in the original thread that I quoted.

Will you at least agree that your assertion that the reported suicides of rice farmers in recent times are directly linked to the Rice Subsidy scheme is just, if not more so, as speculative as the report, that you state is speculative.

Bearing in mind that neither you, nor I, have seen the report, nor are we experts in mental health, I am leaning towards the Doctors experience of previous suicides amongst rice farmers statistical reports and their recent investigations and the correlation between the two.

I have high qualifications in sociology including psychosocial analysis, the social effects on psychology, so please lets dispense with the "leave it to the experts" sillyness, it is a not a valid perspective unless you are Oprah Winfrey or someone.

I have already laid out a simple step-by-step situational analysis, showing that existing problems are compounded by the criminal act of taking goods and livelihood without payment, and compounded further by loan sharks which again could have been repaid if the crops had been paid for. A human being can only deal with so much stress, and it increases to breaking point. Anybody can see that those factors would increase the stress tenfold. You totally circumvented this core point I made.

Yes there have been suicides among farmers before rice-pledging. They are an oppressed underclass and have been under any regime you could name. Their lives are hard and just like underclass factory workers, suicide is a way out. But the fact remains that you can drive people to suicide by taking their crops and livelihoods away and leaving them with nothing, if they were already struggling beforehand that only makes the crime more harmful and the criminal more guilty.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Yunla

[Scamper]

A remarkably well-written article. Indeed, the five stages of grief - that the writer so excellently poses - parallel not only Yingluck but her administration's actions and behavior as well. This is indeed the tipping point. The administration has lost its legitimacy from so many vantage points, not least of which is from the vantage of the constitutional process itself. And that is where this has finally led - to an attack on the constitutional process. The UDD doesn't want the NACC to go ahead. If the UDD succeeds in blocking the NACC today, the UDD will have effectively blocked the constitutional process. If that happens, a very dangerous line will have been crossed and a very dangerous precedent set, setting in motion the potential dismantling of the system of checks and balances. By calling for the elimination of the independent agencies, the UDD crushes the constitutional process. By calling for the neutering of the courts, the UDD crushes the constitutional process. By calling for the separation of one region of the country from another, the UDD crushes the constitutional process. The army is sworn to defend the constitution and the constitutional process. The only card the Yingluck administration has is to stoke the fires of suspicion and hatred so strongly, that their supporters simply run riot. But by so doing, the administration betrays the trust of their people, by abdicating their welfare for their own.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Scamper

[geriatrickid]

To those members hoping for a coup, I suggest you consider the results. This time around there is a strong likelihood to be blowback. After the last coup, there were no redshirts, there was only disorganization. This time around there are hundreds if not thousands of people prepared to take desperate measures. There are hundreds of thousands of Thais ready and willing to take to the streets to protest another military dictatorship and they are organized. We would most likely see significant bloodshed. The army would shoot these protestors. Is that what you want? Do you want to live in fear of more grenades being tossed in Bangkok? Do you think the southern insurgents are going to let a golden opportunity to attack while the army and police are preoccupied with preventing a civil war? What of Suthep? He won't go away after a coup. He wants his leadership position that IMO he felt he always deserved. He was the man that delivered the votes for the Democrats and he was the man that ensured the south was fortress Democrat party. He has more political clout than any other person in the Democrat party and there is no way that the leadership big wigs are going to let a man emboldened by a coup then dictate how the party will be run and who will lead the Democrat party.

[Anon999]

The Violence was stated by the PDRC, they are the only one that can gain from it!

Cheers

If that was the case then the police who support the government would surely have found a few 'suspects' and have had them arrested by now. Your theory doesn't hold water.

[geriatrickid]

I have high qualifications in sociology including psychosocial analysis, the social effects on psychology, so please lets dispense with the "leave it to the experts" sillyness, it is a not a valid perspective unless you are Oprah Winfrey or someone.

I have already laid out a simple step-by-step situational analysis, showing that existing problems are compounded by the criminal act of taking goods and livelihood without payment, and compounded further by loan sharks which again could have been repaid if the crops had been paid for. A human being can only deal with so much stress, and it increases to breaking point. Anybody can see that those factors would increase the stress tenfold. You totally circumvented this core point I made.

Yes there have been suicides among farmers before rice-pledging. They are an oppressed underclass and have been under any regime you could name. Their lives are hard and just like underclass factory workers, suicide is a way out. But the fact remains that you can drive people to suicide by taking their crops and livelihoods away and leaving them with nothing, if they were already struggling beforehand that only makes the crime more harmful and the criminal more guilty.

There is no point in making statements as to your academic qualifications when there is no way of verifying those self claimed qualifications. As you are someone with "high qualifications", surely, you took an introductory course in epidemiology. Don't you remember the first section of the course, the part about data review? If you are that much of an expert, you wouldn't be opining in the absence of the actual data. You don't know what the incidence of suicide was in the period prior to the current crisis, and you do not know what the actual incidence is at this time do you, so how can you offer a reliable comparative analysis?

You conveniently ignore that there are multiple factors involved in a large number of suicides. Have you see the autopsy reports? One of the deceased farmers was in the terminal stage of a chronic disease and was at a point where he was incontinent. He had long been depressed in respect to his illness. I use this particular case, to illustrate the inappropriateness of trying to "blame" all of the suicides on the rice subsidy program. Sometimes the people who commit suicide are mentally impaired and your position ignores that other factors are involved, such as alcoholism or actual organic disease. There is no doubt that financial hardship plays a role in some suicides. However, the people now experiencing financial hardship didn't just fall into the pit of financial despair. It's a chronic condition for many people. Nor is there any doubt that the late receipt of payments may have been a factor in some deaths as it was the "straw that broke the camel's back". However, farmers were killing themselves long before the rice subsidy program, and they will be killing themselves long after the program ends. If you are the "highly qualified" person you claim to be, then you should also know that one cannot be expected to be taken seriously when offering a hypothesis, if unable to prove that hypothesis. A reputable mental health authority reviewed the data with her public health officials, and she reported her findings that are contrary to your assessment.

I suggest you contact her and arrange to meet with her specialists to review the data. You can offer your assessment and guidance based upon your clinical and field experience once you have completed your data review.

[Yunla]

There is no point in making statements as to your academic qualifications when there is no way of verifying those self claimed qualifications. As you are someone with "high qualifications", surely, you took an introductory course in epidemiology. Don't you remember the first section of the course, the part about data review? If you are that much of an expert, you wouldn't be opining in the absence of the actual data. You don't know what the incidence of suicide was in the period prior to the current crisis, and you do not know what the actual incidence is at this time do you, so how can you offer a reliable comparative analysis?

You conveniently ignore that there are multiple factors involved in a large number of suicides. Have you see the autopsy reports? One of the deceased farmers was in the terminal stage of a chronic disease and was at a point where he was incontinent. He had long been depressed in respect to his illness. I use this particular case, to illustrate the inappropriateness of trying to "blame" all of the suicides on the rice subsidy program. Sometimes the people who commit suicide are mentally impaired and your position ignores that other factors are involved, such as alcoholism or actual organic disease. There is no doubt that financial hardship plays a role in some suicides. However, the people now experiencing financial hardship didn't just fall into the pit of financial despair. It's a chronic condition for many people. Nor is there any doubt that the late receipt of payments may have been a factor in some deaths as it was the "straw that broke the camel's back". However, farmers were killing themselves long before the rice subsidy program, and they will be killing themselves long after the program ends. If you are the "highly qualified" person you claim to be, then you should also know that one cannot be expected to be taken seriously when offering a hypothesis, if unable to prove that hypothesis. A reputable mental health authority reviewed the data with her public health officials, and she reported her findings that are contrary to your assessment.

I suggest you contact her and arrange to meet with her specialists to review the data. You can offer your assessment and guidance based upon your clinical and field experience once you have completed your data review.

Your point denigrating my qualifications misses the entire point, which was I was responding to [paraphrased] "we don't know anything about psychology, lets leave it to the Doctors." I am not here to prove myself to you or anyone else GK, and it is of no concern to me whatsoever what other people believe about my qualifications. I merely referenced my own learning in response to this statement about "leaving it to the doctors who understand psychology" etc.

Your other points ignore what I was saying entirely, about debt-suicides being the result of underlying problems plus new problems - in this case the taking of produce without receiving payment, and the resulting inability to clear loan shark debts.

I have friends who have died from debt-suicide in recent years, and also my Thai best friend was pistol-whipped by loan sharks here in Bangkok and her two daughters (who were forced to watch their mother being pistol whipped) were promised to be sold to foreign paedophiles as repayment, after the mother was eventually shot for nonpayment. Fortunately she was able to repay because she worked three jobs and *none of her employers failed to pay her for her work, unlike these farmers* . In such a situation suicide is a more favourable option to many.

So my point stands, the farmers had existing problems XYZ including physical/mental problems and existing debts, but then the Govt took their produce and did not pay them, leaving them in FAR deeper financial problems and with FAR greater stress levels. These two latter factors are the cause of debt-suicides across the world.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Yunla

[Old Man River]

The Violence was stated by the PDRC, they are the only one that can gain from it!

Cheers

The violence was started in 2010 by the Red Shirts. They are still gaining from it.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[fab4]

Thanks for the block-quote from the Institute, which I too have already seen.

I would say to you that this statement by that agency is speculative and also delivered against a background of statements by other agencies such as tourism, transport etc. which famously downplays the reality of those situations.

I think we can lay out a basic situational analysis of cause and effect. Regardless of your underlying mental/physical problems, to compound them with having your crops taken and not paid for, leaving you in absolute poverty and being threatened by loan sharks who you could have repaid if your produce had been paid for, it doesn't take a maths wizard to add up those sums.

I think it is very sad that people try to downplay the impact on poor farmers' lives that nonpayment for produce, loan-borrowing and absolute poverty has had, and the denial of the causal relationship to their tragic suicides is at best far-fetched, and at worst a cheap attempt at redirecting the blame onto the victims.

This has been done to death in the original thread that I quoted.

Will you at least agree that your assertion that the reported suicides of rice farmers in recent times are directly linked to the Rice Subsidy scheme is just, if not more so, as speculative as the report, that you state is speculative.

Bearing in mind that neither you, nor I, have seen the report, nor are we experts in mental health, I am leaning towards the Doctors experience of previous suicides amongst rice farmers statistical reports and their recent investigations and the correlation between the two.

I have high qualifications in sociology including psychosocial analysis, the social effects on psychology, so please lets dispense with the "leave it to the experts" sillyness, it is a not a valid perspective unless you are Oprah Winfrey or someone.

I have already laid out a simple step-by-step situational analysis, showing that existing problems are compounded by the criminal act of taking goods and livelihood without payment, and compounded further by loan sharks which again could have been repaid if the crops had been paid for. A human being can only deal with so much stress, and it increases to breaking point. Anybody can see that those factors would increase the stress tenfold. You totally circumvented this core point I made.

Yes there have been suicides among farmers before rice-pledging. They are an oppressed underclass and have been under any regime you could name. Their lives are hard and just like underclass factory workers, suicide is a way out. But the fact remains that you can drive people to suicide by taking their crops and livelihoods away and leaving them with nothing, if they were already struggling beforehand that only makes the crime more harmful and the criminal more guilty.

I bow to your high qualifications. Best not leave it to the experts, as I'm not Oprah Winfrey, and that action is apparently silly, so why don't you go and advise them with your "step-by-step situational analysis".

Apologies for circumventing your core points.

[MunterHunter]

No, I don't buy that.

If the red shirts were out to indimidate the opposition, they would be in BKK in droves!

The dont have either the numbers or the man-stones for that anymore...

[larsjohnsson]

The Violence was stated by the PDRC, they are the only one that can gain from it!

Cheers

+1

[Just1Voice]

The Violence was stated by the PDRC, they are the only one that can gain from it!

Cheers

The violence was started in 2010 by the Red Shirts. They are still gaining from it.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

WRONG! The violence was started by the Yellow Shirt PAD before there ever was a Red Shirt.

[Yunla]

I bow to your high qualifications. Best not leave it to the experts, as I'm not Oprah Winfrey, and that action is apparently silly, so why don't you go and advise them with your "step-by-step situational analysis".

Apologies for circumventing your core points.

Well quite honestly my qualifications were only raised because you said words to the effect of "we don't know psychology so let the doctors judge it" which is a pet-hate of mine because science accepts we understand less than 10% of what goes on in the human brain and therefor anyone can be sufficiently expert to make basic common-sense conclusions with enough basic reading, since the field is accepted to be largely unexplored. I will say clearly - I am not especially smart and I don't consider myself smarter than the next person.

I wish I hadn't mentioned I studied psychology now, it is obviously sinful to be educated around here and you get flamed and mocked for knowing things. What I should have said is that this PTP rice scam / debt-suicide is really common sense and not high-psychology at all. If a family is very poor and relies on their crops for survival, and they already have problems with whatever, it is just a common-sense conclusion that taking their crops and not paying them, will make them more stressed, less happy, and unable to pay bills or loan sharks. Its so obvious and basic common-sense, I am *AMAZED* that you and others have found these common-sense observations to be so contentious.

In any case, re; the thread topic, I think the Govt are lashing out in desperation, and I consider the ride-pledging to be the core reason they are doing this. They know Yingluck is guilty of gross negligence at least, that is something you can read just from the dates of goods receipt and then the months of nonpayment. Questions continue as to where the money went and why crops weren't sold etc. which brings in possible financial crime charges she could face too.

I seriously doubt she would ever be charged in relation to the farmers' deaths, but that doesn't change the fact that her pledging scheme made their already difficult lives many times more difficult and even unbearable, and then you can sit there and ignore the fact that people in such desperation are more likely to kill themselves.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Yunla

[Old Man River]

The Violence was stated by the PDRC, they are the only one that can gain from it!

Cheers

The violence was started in 2010 by the Red Shirts. They are still gaining from it.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

WRONG! The violence was started by the Yellow Shirt PAD before there ever was a Red Shirt.

You are right. The violence was started by Thaksin before either a Red Shirt or Yellow Shirt existed.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand