Information on (UK's) Nationwide BS ATM Daily Limits & Exchange Rates used.

[gdhm]

Hi All

I added much of this this information to an existing Thread "ATM Machines and larger withdrawals" which had not been posted to for months and I a concerned the (what I believe) very useful information may have gone unnoticed by Nationwide FlexPlus & Flex (Visa based) DEBIT cards users who make ATM withdrawals in Thailand I have therefore decided to make a new topic.

Since mid February 2014 Aeon has joined the rest and are now charging a ฿150 per ATM transactions with a maximum single transaction amount of ฿20,000. I was now seeking the best method for cheap cash withdrawal of my pension from my UK Nationwide FlexPlus Account (switched from Flex to this as only has a fixed Monthly fee of £10 and NO 2% currency conversion fees and no ATM £1 fixed withdrawal fee per transaction. Saves me a lot of Bank charges).

USEFUL INFO for NW users who may not know:

Nationwide use Visa (EUROPE) published Exchange rates can be found found on http://www.visaeurop...ange_rates.aspx. for overseas ATM cash withdrawals see bottom left of an OFFICIAL NW Website page http://www.nationwid...ards-abroad.htm.

IMPORTANT NOTE: the Visa Rates they use (AS ALL European Banks I believe do for Visa transactions) is from Visa EUROPE (www.visaeurope.com) and NOT from the main VISA Worldwide (www.visa.com).

This is important to know because the Rates are different (Visa Worldwide seem BETTER) but that is irrelevant to us).

Knowing where rates come from and what they are before ATM withdrawal is extremely useful because you can look at the rate in the morning and know EXACTLY what the rate will be for the WHOLE DAY. (Note: The rate published on a Saturday will apply for Sat, Sun AND MONDAY and Major Europe wide Hols (i.e Xmas) seem to retain ER rates published immediately before the holiday). To date I have always used ATM withdrawals based on the daily published Exchange rates withdrawing via Aeon ATMs (so no fees). I have not tried "over-the-counter withdrawals yet as I have read the transaction may not go though the day of withdrawal (maybe someone can confirm if true) and therefore I cannot be sure what the rate used will be (and I was not paying any fees via Aeon ATMs until now).

With ALL my past Aeon ATM withdrawals (except very small amounts) NW used the exact Visa (Europe) 6 decimal places Exchange Rate (BUT NW rounded to only5 decimal places (seen on my statements) so very rarely there MAY be a single penny difference). ONLY once in 2 years have I had more than a penny difference and different rate from that published and that was a tiny amount in my favour - (i still have no idea the reason).

A couple of days ago I found out that Nationwide BS has recently increased its daily ATM withdrawal limit to £500 (from £300). I had never tested the new limit as I was totally unaware of the increase. I cannot find exactly when it was increased but I note it was certainly in effect on 20 Dec 2013. The Increased limit applies to FlexPlus, Flex & FlexDirect cards

Refer Nationwide BS info links I found:

http://www.nationwid...px?article=1087

and

http://your.nationwi...wal-limits.aspx

I used my Nationwide FlexPlus Visa Debit card and decided to test a Bangkok Bank ATM to test:

1) The new Nationwide daily withdrawal limit of £500 GBP.

2) The reported ฿25,000 single ATM withdrawal capability via Bangkok Bank ATMs

3) What Exchange Rate is used for Nationwide (Visa based) DEBIT Card withdrawals (in my case FlexPlus but I am sure same for Flex) from a Bangkok Bank ATM ER (I wanted to know if BKB use the official Nationwide (Visa EUROPE Exchange Rate or one of their own (similar to their TT rates which many posters in the past seem to believe is the case)

My Findings:

1) YES the Nationwide BS limit has been raised and works with my FlexPlus Visa DEBIT card (I debited £466 approx.)

2) YES I was able to make a single Cash withdrawal transaction of ฿25,000 in ฿1,000 Baht notes

by selecting "other" when offered lower fast cash pre-set amounts. I was asked if I accepted the ฿150 fixed ATM fee. I replied "yes" and the consequential ATM receipt shows my NW Account has been debited with ฿25,150 as expected.

3) YES Bangkok Bank appear to use Nationwide's Visa Europe GBP - THB Exchange Rate (published on the Visa Europe website) and certainly they do NOT use their own T/T rates.

I have now tested the Exchange Rate used 2 days in a row with a ฿25,000 + ฿150 (ATM fee) and yesterday ฿15,000 +฿150 (ATM fee). In BOTH cases the rate almost exactly matched (exact to 2 or 3 decimal places) the published Visa Europe published rate for the applicable day.

1) Visa Europe ฿53.925798 (NW used and show on my on-line statement ฿53.92598) Bangkok Bank published T/T rate at time was ฿53.85000.

2) Visa Europe ฿53.737439.(NW used ฿53,73865) Bangkok Bank published T/T rate at time was ฿53.95000)

Clearly the Bangkok Bank T/T Rates are NOT being used. or I would have paid more with 1) and less with 2)

When I was using Aeon with no ATM fees the NW used the exact Visa Europe rate rounded on 5th decimal place (Visa Europe use decimal places). I did notice if I did a very small deduction say only a few 1,000 Baht the rate differed a tiny amount BUT NO IDEA WHY.

I note with my 2 withdrawals via Bangkok bank in the last 2 days the rate used by NW only matches exactly to 2 or 3 decimal places and both are minutely in my favour with the later decimal places I can only think minutely different rate is used for the ฿150 fee (once again I have no idea). However, in both cases I have been charged by NW an amount to the exact penny that the 6 decimal place (rounded to lower penny) Visa Europe published Exchange Rate would have charged me..

This is VERY GOOD NEWS regarding Bangkok Bank uses the NW Visa Europe GBP - THB Rates as can look up Visa Europe GBP - THB Rates on their site before I decide whether to withdrawal cash that day (as I have done for Aeon ATM withdrawals for over 2 years). It is nice having control of when I think it a good day & rate to withdraw future amounts and as Bangkok Bank allows me to withdraw ฿5,000 more in a single transaction compared to most Thai Banks, that will save (in my case) ฿150 each month. OK not large, but I'd sooner have it than a Bank having it (and it all adds up).

If NW on-line Banking users wish the confirm the amount debited to their account and to 2or3 decimal places rate rate used the SAME day of Withdrawal this can be doe as I do. When I make a Withdrawal I come home and check my Nationwide FlexPlus balance and can see immediately the amount debited to my account as it shows "Account Balance" and "Usable Balance". The difference, of course, is the cost of the ฿25,150 Bangkok Bank ATM Cash Withdrawal being processed (unless another debit is being processed on the same day - in my case extremely rare, if ever). The rate (accurate to 2 or 3 decimal places) can be calculated by dividing the "difference" into the Baht amount withdrawn+ the ฿150 ATM fee. Obviously the next day it is possible to confirm on-line the exact (to 5 decimal places used).

-----

I do not yet have any confirmed info whether Bangkok Bank use the Nationwide BS (Visa Europe) Exchange Rate for "over-the-counter" debit card transactions.

A couple of (a local) Forum members have posted that they were charged a single ฿150 fee (same as one ATM W/D fee) but nobody YET has advised me what Exchange Rate was used with transaction date for me to check if their transactions used the ER of the same day they did their ""over-the-counter" transactions or not.

I think the vast majority of Nationwide Debit card users do not realize Nationwide use published daily Visa Europe Rates which they can check before ATM withdrawals (as most refer to the ATM Bank's published T/T rates as being a near approx.). I personally only found out by a lot of trial and error and ONLY recently do I believe Nationwide published on their site that they use Visa Europe Rates (either that, or I cannot read )

Hope my info and personal findings are helpful.

FINALLY: If anybody believes any of my information to be in error (I believe it is accurate E. &O.E) please post and explain as it is my intention to help Nationwide BS FlexPlus and Flex (Visa based) DEBIT cards holders and NOT inadvertently mislead them

Kind regards to all

Sorry for edit -spelling only. My Firefox spell checker is always set for spell checking but sometimes it does not automatically do so and I get fooled (until I notice, or not, afterwards). Hopefully I have caught all of them this time.

[PattayaPhom]

Halifax I believe are offering one.....This is money reported it last month...worth checking out

[Jip99]

Interesting. I thought there was a limit of 20 bank notes per ATM withdrawal.

[VBF]

Useful post gdhm - thank you very much

[gdhm]

My pleasure VBF

Yesterday (just after posting) I went to do another (3rd in 3 days) withdrawal having first noted Visa Europe rate for 27th Feb was ฿54.062821 thinking that was pretty good. I withdrew ฿20,000 +฿150 ATM fee from a Bangkok Bank ATM (more than saved the ฿150 ATM fee compared with the 26th Feb Rate ). My NW on-line published rate today is ฿54.06348.(almost identical and both convert to the same GBP to the penny. So 3 out for 3 of my BKB ATM transactions used Visa Europe rates (accurate to 2 or 3 decimal places). I am NOW convinced the tiny difference for the 3rd to 5th decimal places IS INDEED a tiny bit kinder Exchange Rate used for the ฿150 ATM fee portion of the total debit.

Jip99. I had a good look at the BKB ATM messages yesterday and in fact when you select "Other" (amount) an on-screen message appears saying something like "A maximum of 25 notes can be withdrawn at a time for security reasons. Notes available ฿1000, ฿500 and ฿100" I assume that is why some have reported that when low/out of ฿1000 Notes only a maximum of ฿12,500 (25x฿500 notes) was offered by the ATM.

On other posts people are advising TMB and Bank of Ayudhya (Krungrsi) allow ฿30,000 per single transaction (SUBJECT of course to your Card provider's daily limit). NW's daily limit being £500 means NW card holders could only withdrawal a Maximum of around ฿26,000 a time/day (based on recent Exchange rates) from those two banks ATMs anyway.

Sorry PattayaPhom, but I am unsure which of my comments/question you are offering information on in your Post #2 "Halifax I believe are offering one.....This is money reported it last month...worth checking out"

Regards