Corruption is key reason for collapse of rice pledging scheme, says poll

[bigbamboo]

Come on Red supporters. Tell us Yingluck has nothing to do with it because you keep on criticizing the NACC.

Humans are corrupt, greedy, and dishonest by nature. If you say that you are not then you are a perfect man or women indeed,

Speak for yourself.

If Cricketnut had said politicians are corrupt, greedy and dishonest by nature then he would be closer to the mark.

The rice pledging scheme is testimony to that and it is becoming more apparent all the time that a mixture of corruption and mismanagement have contributed to this embarrassing national debacle. The architect of the scheme and it's chief executive, namely Mr T Shinawat and Ms Y Shinawat must stand up and accept their responsibility for the ruination of Thailand's reputation as the world's biggest and best rice producer, a proud record it has held for half a century.

Anything less would be an insult to the entire nation.

[Gunna]

Yeah, and news just came out, that around 60 to 80 billion Baht were syphoned off via Hong Kong, If they hadn't been so greedy, they would propably ahve won teh February election much smoother.

Now the Red Shirts and gov't have to explain, that their voters can not receive the money that is due for them, because around half of it is already gone to HK or SG or DBX. "We steal not only the food from your plate, we even steal your plates too, but please do not worry and vote for us..."

Links please....And please dont explain that this is something from Suthep on stage.

I knew many of the Red shirt supporters on TV were of a low IQ. Just google " corruption 60 billion baht"

[SamMunich]

Yeah, and news just came out, that around 60 to 80 billion Baht were syphoned off via Hong Kong, If they hadn't been so greedy, they would propably ahve won teh February election much smoother.

Now the Red Shirts and gov't have to explain, that their voters can not receive the money that is due for them, because around half of it is already gone to HK or SG or DBX. "We steal not only the food from your plate, we even steal your plates too, but please do not worry and vote for us..."

Links please....And please dont explain that this is something from Suthep on stage.

I knew many of the Red shirt supporters on TV were of a low IQ. Just google " corruption 60 billion baht"

________________________________________________________________________________

Gunna, you think it but do not write it. In Thialand there is a BIG difference between formal and informal:
If you say a Red Shirt is stupid, that becomes formal,

if you think Chalerm is stupid, then it might be the same thougth that many others have, but it's also informal and thus legit...

For the rest about how to find the news via Google I can only agree with you...

[muchogra]

No! Corruption is not the reason for the failure!

The failure is due to not able to drive up the price in the world market when trying to limit the supply of rice with Thailand being the number one exporter. Cornering the market to create a win-win situation failed! To me, there's an ethical issue also if it succeeded! If it did drive up the market, Thai farmers benefitted; what about other rice-consuming poor people? But, it's no matter, if it wins votes! To me, it's not subsiidy, it's bribery! I've got pretty pissed after hearing none of comments like that!

[noitom]

Thai rice was long over due to collapse well before Thaksin and certainly well before Yingluck. Thai rice has always been a sort of Ponzi scheme and a way to stick it to the farmers by the rich and powerful establishment. Back in the early fifties when Thailand was largely a farming economy, Thai rice was sort of a sufficiency economy that played a big role in millions of Thai lives. The problem began when the Bangkok fat cats started to pitch foreign investment on their cheap labor for manufacturing, and they had to have tax money to build roads and infrastructure like electric water...etc. to make Bangkok attractive. You guessed it, they tapped in to the rice farmers and started taxing them at 35% of their revenue.

So when the Thai farmers were overtaxed, they couldn't afford to meet their production needs for their land rent or mortgage and the big guys came along and made them indentured servants and laborers on the land they used to own. When they kept getting taxed and over worked, they lost more and eventually went to work on someone else's land while the rice farming revenue tax continued to be paid and used, not for the Thai farmers for equipment, seed, and new farming technology, but rather to keep building roads and infrastructure to make Bangkok attractive for foreign investors. Forget about the farmer and his rice.

The big Thai guys now could get investment for tractors and new seed and technology...etc., and they could pull enough strings to get some money from the government because now the government had some foreign investment paying taxes off the back of the Thai farmer. A few years ago, Yingluck/Thaksin and the rice cartel figured they could corner the market for Thailand's rice and overproduction, so they dreamed up this scheme to hoard rice and keep it off the market which was the true goal of the rice pledging scheme. To raise the price of Thai rice on the market so the government and the Thai rice cartel boys could skim more money from the top. Buy more Ferraris and fly in more Kobe beef.

Only problem was that they forgot to tell the Indians and the Vietnamese, and they got outfoxed in the market by increased production and supply by the Indians and the Vietnamese. This stuck the Thais with holding the bag so to speak, the bag of rice, while the world rice price kept falling to a level that was below the value that the Thai government offered to pledge to Thai rice farmers. Faced with a loss on the pledge, the protesters seized the moment to handcuff Yingluck's government and use the rice pledge as their leading value proposition despite that it is a result of market decisions that were made by Thai big guys convincing Yingluck to initiate this attempt to corner the market for Thai rice.

So the real cause of the rice pledging fiasco was the faulty premise and lack of vision of the Thai elite establishmentfor years in deluding themselves in to believing that their rice know how and product was far superior to everyone else and that people all over the world would preference Thai rice for a very high premium way above competing products from Vietnam, India, Bangladesh, Myanmar, and now Cambodia. The Thai establishment always had Yingluck they could throw under the bus, if the deal to corner the market didn't go down. They could always throw her under the bus and quickly propped Suthep and his "people's council" up very quickly when the market shifted on the rice price.

So this is not about corruption within the Yingluck government about the rice pledging for populist votes. It's about the Thai rice cartel and Thai establishment attempting to corner the global rice market and convincing a naive Yingluck that it would achieve a premium price, corner market share and throw off a nice tax for the government and the Thai fat guys could line their pockets for another 5-10 years off the back of the poor Thai farmer with no teeth and one pair of worn down flip flops. Yingluck was foolish enough to believe this and had poor advisors and a set of Thai big boys who swung big enough you know whats to convince her to implement this Ponzi scheme. Crap runs downhill, so the guy most hurt was the farmer.

So there is much more to Thai rice and the rice pledging scheme than you read about in the Thai press like most issues. The Thai press should start telling the truth and arming Thais with some real historical facts and the truth about issues.

[noitom]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

No! Corruption is not the reason for the failure!

The failure is due to not able to drive up the price in the world market when trying to limit the supply of rice with Thailand being the number one exporter. Cornering the market to create a win-win situation failed! To me, there's an ethical issue also if it succeeded! If it did drive up the market, Thai farmers benefitted; what about other rice-consuming poor people? But, it's no matter, if it wins votes! To me, it's not subsiidy, it's bribery! I've got pretty pissed after hearing none of comments like that!

Thai rice was long over due to collapse well before Thaksin and certainly well before Yingluck. Thai rice has always been a sort of Ponzi scheme and a way to stick it to the farmers by the rich and powerful establishment. Back in the early fifties when Thailand was largely a farming economy, Thai rice was sort of a sufficiency economy that played a big role in millions of Thai lives. The problem began when the Bangkok fat cats started to pitch foreign investment on their cheap labor for manufacturing, and they had to have tax money to build roads and infrastructure like electric water...etc. to make Bangkok attractive. You guessed it, they tapped in to the rice farmers and started taxing them at 35% of their revenue.

So when the Thai farmers were overtaxed, they couldn't afford to meet their production needs for their land rent or mortgage and the big guys came along and made them indentured servants and laborers on the land they used to own. When they kept getting taxed and over worked, they lost more and eventually went to work on someone else's land while the rice farming revenue tax continued to be paid and used, not for the Thai farmers for equipment, seed, and new farming technology, but rather to keep building roads and infrastructure to make Bangkok attractive for foreign investors. Forget about the farmer and his rice.

The big Thai guys now could get investment for tractors and new seed and technology...etc., and they could pull enough strings to get some money from the government because now the government had some foreign investment paying taxes off the back of the Thai farmer. A few years ago, Yingluck/Thaksin and the rice cartel figured they could corner the market for Thailand's rice and overproduction, so they dreamed up this scheme to hoard rice and keep it off the market which was the true goal of the rice pledging scheme. To raise the price of Thai rice on the market so the government and the Thai rice cartel boys could skim more money from the top. Buy more Ferraris and fly in more Kobe beef.

Only problem was that they forgot to tell the Indians and the Vietnamese, and they got outfoxed in the market by increased production and supply by the Indians and the Vietnamese. This stuck the Thais with holding the bag so to speak, the bag of rice, while the world rice price kept falling to a level that was below the value that the Thai government offered to pledge to Thai rice farmers. Faced with a loss on the pledge, the protesters seized the moment to handcuff Yingluck's government and use the rice pledge as their leading value proposition despite that it is a result of market decisions that were made by Thai big guys convincing Yingluck to initiate this attempt to corner the market for Thai rice.

So the real cause of the rice pledging fiasco was the faulty premise and lack of vision of the Thai elite establishmentfor years in deluding themselves in to believing that their rice know how and product was far superior to everyone else and that people all over the world would preference Thai rice for a very high premium way above competing products from Vietnam, India, Bangladesh, Myanmar, and now Cambodia. The Thai establishment always had Yingluck they could throw under the bus, if the deal to corner the market didn't go down. They could always throw her under the bus and quickly propped Suthep and his "people's council" up very quickly when the market shifted on the rice price.

So this is not about corruption within the Yingluck government about the rice pledging for populist votes. It's about the Thai rice cartel and Thai establishment attempting to corner the global rice market and convincing a naive Yingluck that it would achieve a premium price, corner market share and throw off a nice tax for the government and the Thai fat guys could line their pockets for another 5-10 years off the back of the poor Thai farmer with no teeth and one pair of worn down flip flops. Yingluck was foolish enough to believe this and had poor advisors and a set of Thai big boys who swung big enough you know whats to convince her to implement this Ponzi scheme. Crap runs downhill, so the guy most hurt was the farmer.

So there is much more to Thai rice and the rice pledging scheme than you read about in the Thai press like most issues. The Thai press should start telling the truth and arming Thais with some real historical facts and the truth about issues.

[JRSoul]

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No! Corruption is not the reason for the failure!

The failure is due to not able to drive up the price in the world market when trying to limit the supply of rice with Thailand being the number one exporter. Cornering the market to create a win-win situation failed! To me, there's an ethical issue also if it succeeded! If it did drive up the market, Thai farmers benefitted; what about other rice-consuming poor people? But, it's no matter, if it wins votes! To me, it's not subsiidy, it's bribery! I've got pretty pissed after hearing none of comments like that!

Thai rice was long over due to collapse well before Thaksin and certainly well before Yingluck. Thai rice has always been a sort of Ponzi scheme and a way to stick it to the farmers by the rich and powerful establishment. Back in the early fifties when Thailand was largely a farming economy, Thai rice was sort of a sufficiency economy that played a big role in millions of Thai lives. The problem began when the Bangkok fat cats started to pitch foreign investment on their cheap labor for manufacturing, and they had to have tax money to build roads and infrastructure like electric water...etc. to make Bangkok attractive. You guessed it, they tapped in to the rice farmers and started taxing them at 35% of their revenue.

So when the Thai farmers were overtaxed, they couldn't afford to meet their production needs for their land rent or mortgage and the big guys came along and made them indentured servants and laborers on the land they used to own. When they kept getting taxed and over worked, they lost more and eventually went to work on someone else's land while the rice farming revenue tax continued to be paid and used, not for the Thai farmers for equipment, seed, and new farming technology, but rather to keep building roads and infrastructure to make Bangkok attractive for foreign investors. Forget about the farmer and his rice.

The big Thai guys now could get investment for tractors and new seed and technology...etc., and they could pull enough strings to get some money from the government because now the government had some foreign investment paying taxes off the back of the Thai farmer. A few years ago, Yingluck/Thaksin and the rice cartel figured they could corner the market for Thailand's rice and overproduction, so they dreamed up this scheme to hoard rice and keep it off the market which was the true goal of the rice pledging scheme. To raise the price of Thai rice on the market so the government and the Thai rice cartel boys could skim more money from the top. Buy more Ferraris and fly in more Kobe beef.

Only problem was that they forgot to tell the Indians and the Vietnamese, and they got outfoxed in the market by increased production and supply by the Indians and the Vietnamese. This stuck the Thais with holding the bag so to speak, the bag of rice, while the world rice price kept falling to a level that was below the value that the Thai government offered to pledge to Thai rice farmers. Faced with a loss on the pledge, the protesters seized the moment to handcuff Yingluck's government and use the rice pledge as their leading value proposition despite that it is a result of market decisions that were made by Thai big guys convincing Yingluck to initiate this attempt to corner the market for Thai rice.

So the real cause of the rice pledging fiasco was the faulty premise and lack of vision of the Thai elite establishmentfor years in deluding themselves in to believing that their rice know how and product was far superior to everyone else and that people all over the world would preference Thai rice for a very high premium way above competing products from Vietnam, India, Bangladesh, Myanmar, and now Cambodia. The Thai establishment always had Yingluck they could throw under the bus, if the deal to corner the market didn't go down. They could always throw her under the bus and quickly propped Suthep and his "people's council" up very quickly when the market shifted on the rice price.

So this is not about corruption within the Yingluck government about the rice pledging for populist votes. It's about the Thai rice cartel and Thai establishment attempting to corner the global rice market and convincing a naive Yingluck that it would achieve a premium price, corner market share and throw off a nice tax for the government and the Thai fat guys could line their pockets for another 5-10 years off the back of the poor Thai farmer with no teeth and one pair of worn down flip flops. Yingluck was foolish enough to believe this and had poor advisors and a set of Thai big boys who swung big enough you know whats to convince her to implement this Ponzi scheme. Crap runs downhill, so the guy most hurt was the farmer.

So there is much more to Thai rice and the rice pledging scheme than you read about in the Thai press like most issues. The Thai press should start telling the truth and arming Thais with some real historical facts and the truth about issues.

So low incomes have nothing to do with a low value crop being produced inefficiently on labour-intensive small area farms? It's all a great big conspiracy to steal from those who had nothing much to start with.

If that was a bit hard to swallow "So this is not about corruption within the Yingluck government about the rice pledging for populist votes." is enough to make a rat vomit. Why would "the Thai rice cartel and Thai establishment" convince Yingluk when the rice pledging scheme was devised and implemented by her brother years earlier? She resurrected it knowing that it was proven to be rife with corruption and absolutely useless in its stated aims.

You are just another PTP/Yingluk apologist trying to muddy the waters. And not very convincing.

[Thai at Heart]

Yeah, and news just came out, that around 60 to 80 billion Baht were syphoned off via Hong Kong, If they hadn't been so greedy, they would propably ahve won teh February election much smoother.

Now the Red Shirts and gov't have to explain, that their voters can not receive the money that is due for them, because around half of it is already gone to HK or SG or DBX. "We steal not only the food from your plate, we even steal your plates too, but please do not worry and vote for us..."

Links please....And please dont explain that this is something from Suthep on stage.

I knew many of the Red shirt supporters on TV were of a low IQ. Just google " corruption 60 billion baht"

________________________________________________________________________________

Gunna, you think it but do not write it. In Thialand there is a BIG difference between formal and informal:

If you say a Red Shirt is stupid, that becomes formal,

if you think Chalerm is stupid, then it might be the same thougth that many others have, but it's also informal and thus legit...

For the rest about how to find the news via Google I can only agree with you...

Yes. It hit the Bangkok post today.. Spread through the well known chinese route to Hong Kong. Yeah right. 1.5bn smuggled out through a supposedly secret chinese tunnel.

I think you might find that this technique moves billions of USD for more than just the shinawats.

All gossip and bulls**t. This isn't a soap opera or james bond. Thaksin with his desert island using ancient smuggling routes to Hong Kong. Oh please.

[Thai at Heart]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

No! Corruption is not the reason for the failure!

The failure is due to not able to drive up the price in the world market when trying to limit the supply of rice with Thailand being the number one exporter. Cornering the market to create a win-win situation failed! To me, there's an ethical issue also if it succeeded! If it did drive up the market, Thai farmers benefitted; what about other rice-consuming poor people? But, it's no matter, if it wins votes! To me, it's not subsiidy, it's bribery! I've got pretty pissed after hearing none of comments like that!

Thai rice was long over due to collapse well before Thaksin and certainly well before Yingluck. Thai rice has always been a sort of Ponzi scheme and a way to stick it to the farmers by the rich and powerful establishment. Back in the early fifties when Thailand was largely a farming economy, Thai rice was sort of a sufficiency economy that played a big role in millions of Thai lives. The problem began when the Bangkok fat cats started to pitch foreign investment on their cheap labor for manufacturing, and they had to have tax money to build roads and infrastructure like electric water...etc. to make Bangkok attractive. You guessed it, they tapped in to the rice farmers and started taxing them at 35% of their revenue.

So when the Thai farmers were overtaxed, they couldn't afford to meet their production needs for their land rent or mortgage and the big guys came along and made them indentured servants and laborers on the land they used to own. When they kept getting taxed and over worked, they lost more and eventually went to work on someone else's land while the rice farming revenue tax continued to be paid and used, not for the Thai farmers for equipment, seed, and new farming technology, but rather to keep building roads and infrastructure to make Bangkok attractive for foreign investors. Forget about the farmer and his rice.

The big Thai guys now could get investment for tractors and new seed and technology...etc., and they could pull enough strings to get some money from the government because now the government had some foreign investment paying taxes off the back of the Thai farmer. A few years ago, Yingluck/Thaksin and the rice cartel figured they could corner the market for Thailand's rice and overproduction, so they dreamed up this scheme to hoard rice and keep it off the market which was the true goal of the rice pledging scheme. To raise the price of Thai rice on the market so the government and the Thai rice cartel boys could skim more money from the top. Buy more Ferraris and fly in more Kobe beef.

Only problem was that they forgot to tell the Indians and the Vietnamese, and they got outfoxed in the market by increased production and supply by the Indians and the Vietnamese. This stuck the Thais with holding the bag so to speak, the bag of rice, while the world rice price kept falling to a level that was below the value that the Thai government offered to pledge to Thai rice farmers. Faced with a loss on the pledge, the protesters seized the moment to handcuff Yingluck's government and use the rice pledge as their leading value proposition despite that it is a result of market decisions that were made by Thai big guys convincing Yingluck to initiate this attempt to corner the market for Thai rice.

So the real cause of the rice pledging fiasco was the faulty premise and lack of vision of the Thai elite establishmentfor years in deluding themselves in to believing that their rice know how and product was far superior to everyone else and that people all over the world would preference Thai rice for a very high premium way above competing products from Vietnam, India, Bangladesh, Myanmar, and now Cambodia. The Thai establishment always had Yingluck they could throw under the bus, if the deal to corner the market didn't go down. They could always throw her under the bus and quickly propped Suthep and his "people's council" up very quickly when the market shifted on the rice price.

So this is not about corruption within the Yingluck government about the rice pledging for populist votes. It's about the Thai rice cartel and Thai establishment attempting to corner the global rice market and convincing a naive Yingluck that it would achieve a premium price, corner market share and throw off a nice tax for the government and the Thai fat guys could line their pockets for another 5-10 years off the back of the poor Thai farmer with no teeth and one pair of worn down flip flops. Yingluck was foolish enough to believe this and had poor advisors and a set of Thai big boys who swung big enough you know whats to convince her to implement this Ponzi scheme. Crap runs downhill, so the guy most hurt was the farmer.

So there is much more to Thai rice and the rice pledging scheme than you read about in the Thai press like most issues. The Thai press should start telling the truth and arming Thais with some real historical facts and the truth about issues.

This is about thaksin wanting to ruin the very rice establishment you talk of.

Thaksin really thought he could intervene into the market and cut the middle men out. These.families among them CP are billionaires in their own right who have exploited thai farmers for many years.

So, thaksin tried to steal the loyalty of the farmers while dealing a blow to the rice exporters who are massively democrat. Unfortunately he screwed it up.

There is no agreement between the old money rice exporters and Thaksin. I believe u are mistaken.

[noitom]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

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No! Corruption is not the reason for the failure!

The failure is due to not able to drive up the price in the world market when trying to limit the supply of rice with Thailand being the number one exporter. Cornering the market to create a win-win situation failed! To me, there's an ethical issue also if it succeeded! If it did drive up the market, Thai farmers benefitted; what about other rice-consuming poor people? But, it's no matter, if it wins votes! To me, it's not subsiidy, it's bribery! I've got pretty pissed after hearing none of comments like that!

Thai rice was long over due to collapse well before Thaksin and certainly well before Yingluck. Thai rice has always been a sort of Ponzi scheme and a way to stick it to the farmers by the rich and powerful establishment. Back in the early fifties when Thailand was largely a farming economy, Thai rice was sort of a sufficiency economy that played a big role in millions of Thai lives. The problem began when the Bangkok fat cats started to pitch foreign investment on their cheap labor for manufacturing, and they had to have tax money to build roads and infrastructure like electric water...etc. to make Bangkok attractive. You guessed it, they tapped in to the rice farmers and started taxing them at 35% of their revenue.

So when the Thai farmers were overtaxed, they couldn't afford to meet their production needs for their land rent or mortgage and the big guys came along and made them indentured servants and laborers on the land they used to own. When they kept getting taxed and over worked, they lost more and eventually went to work on someone else's land while the rice farming revenue tax continued to be paid and used, not for the Thai farmers for equipment, seed, and new farming technology, but rather to keep building roads and infrastructure to make Bangkok attractive for foreign investors. Forget about the farmer and his rice.

The big Thai guys now could get investment for tractors and new seed and technology...etc., and they could pull enough strings to get some money from the government because now the government had some foreign investment paying taxes off the back of the Thai farmer. A few years ago, Yingluck/Thaksin and the rice cartel figured they could corner the market for Thailand's rice and overproduction, so they dreamed up this scheme to hoard rice and keep it off the market which was the true goal of the rice pledging scheme. To raise the price of Thai rice on the market so the government and the Thai rice cartel boys could skim more money from the top. Buy more Ferraris and fly in more Kobe beef.

Only problem was that they forgot to tell the Indians and the Vietnamese, and they got outfoxed in the market by increased production and supply by the Indians and the Vietnamese. This stuck the Thais with holding the bag so to speak, the bag of rice, while the world rice price kept falling to a level that was below the value that the Thai government offered to pledge to Thai rice farmers. Faced with a loss on the pledge, the protesters seized the moment to handcuff Yingluck's government and use the rice pledge as their leading value proposition despite that it is a result of market decisions that were made by Thai big guys convincing Yingluck to initiate this attempt to corner the market for Thai rice.

So the real cause of the rice pledging fiasco was the faulty premise and lack of vision of the Thai elite establishmentfor years in deluding themselves in to believing that their rice know how and product was far superior to everyone else and that people all over the world would preference Thai rice for a very high premium way above competing products from Vietnam, India, Bangladesh, Myanmar, and now Cambodia. The Thai establishment always had Yingluck they could throw under the bus, if the deal to corner the market didn't go down. They could always throw her under the bus and quickly propped Suthep and his "people's council" up very quickly when the market shifted on the rice price.

So this is not about corruption within the Yingluck government about the rice pledging for populist votes. It's about the Thai rice cartel and Thai establishment attempting to corner the global rice market and convincing a naive Yingluck that it would achieve a premium price, corner market share and throw off a nice tax for the government and the Thai fat guys could line their pockets for another 5-10 years off the back of the poor Thai farmer with no teeth and one pair of worn down flip flops. Yingluck was foolish enough to believe this and had poor advisors and a set of Thai big boys who swung big enough you know whats to convince her to implement this Ponzi scheme. Crap runs downhill, so the guy most hurt was the farmer.

So there is much more to Thai rice and the rice pledging scheme than you read about in the Thai press like most issues. The Thai press should start telling the truth and arming Thais with some real historical facts and the truth about issues.

This is about thaksin wanting to ruin the very rice establishment you talk of.

Thaksin really thought he could intervene into the market and cut the middle men out. These.families among them CP are billionaires in their own right who have exploited thai farmers for many years.

So, thaksin tried to steal the loyalty of the farmers while dealing a blow to the rice exporters who are massively democrat. Unfortunately he screwed it up.

There is no agreement between the old money rice exporters and Thaksin. I believe u are mistaken.

Thaksin is too smart to not have made some concessions to the elite establishment and the rice cartel after his successful 2005 election and during his stewardship in office from 2001. The rice pledging scheme was likely to have been a bone that Thaksin threw to the rice cartel and establishment to get them some more money out of the rice game. The establishment had no problem with Thaksin until Sondhi, his former friend and business partner, had a falling out and published an article accusing Thaksin of les majeste. Sondhi and then Srimuang spearheaded PAD, a rogue group with the emotional philosophy and history of the Village Scouts, that began the task of getting rid of Thaksin.

The elite establishment had no problem with Thaksin's drug war and killings one of his few mistakes as a national leader. The Thai elite could have cared less that these guys were off the street. The US and international community virtually ignored it, up to their eyeballs in terrorism. Thaksin originally saw the rice pledging scheme as a way to appease the cartel and get them more money out of the system. The only problem Thaksin had with the elite was that he didn't step away from the trough at the end of his first term as was the Thai custom for decades and decades and instead was re-elected by a landslide with the largest voter turnout in Thai history. By 2006, with so much popular support, Thaksin probably dropped the rice pledging scheme and payoff plan and the elite got the army to take him out. You know the rest.

When rice pledging was hatched, a Thai team of rice trade and economic folks "Thai experts," and maybe some foreigners, were foolishly paid to forecast that Thailand could pull off the market corner, expand their business and get a super premium on the price. Not counting that Thaksin knew he could gain benefits with his farm constituents while at the same time "hand signaling' at some meetings with the Thai establishment and rice cartel that there would be plenty to go around when they got their $700 per ton. Once Thaksin won the landslide in 2006, he probably felt he could last without any concessions to the establishment.

As far as the resurrection of the rice pledging scheme to Yingluck's term, it's hard to figure what really transpired. There were some market related issues and Thaksin, by then in command on skype, was sure to have known it wouldn't work. But it might have been his Hail Mary pass to cause conflict and turmoil in the rice cartel and weaken the establishment and come along with money for the farmers as Robin Hood. PAD resurrected itself with Suthep in command and re-branded as PDRC to prevent the Yingluck government from executing on its promise to the farmers and to prevent Thaksin from appearing to be the white knight.

[Thai at Heart]

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No! Corruption is not the reason for the failure!

The failure is due to not able to drive up the price in the world market when trying to limit the supply of rice with Thailand being the number one exporter. Cornering the market to create a win-win situation failed! To me, there's an ethical issue also if it succeeded! If it did drive up the market, Thai farmers benefitted; what about other rice-consuming poor people? But, it's no matter, if it wins votes! To me, it's not subsiidy, it's bribery! I've got pretty pissed after hearing none of comments like that!

Thai rice was long over due to collapse well before Thaksin and certainly well before Yingluck. Thai rice has always been a sort of Ponzi scheme and a way to stick it to the farmers by the rich and powerful establishment. Back in the early fifties when Thailand was largely a farming economy, Thai rice was sort of a sufficiency economy that played a big role in millions of Thai lives. The problem began when the Bangkok fat cats started to pitch foreign investment on their cheap labor for manufacturing, and they had to have tax money to build roads and infrastructure like electric water...etc. to make Bangkok attractive. You guessed it, they tapped in to the rice farmers and started taxing them at 35% of their revenue.

So when the Thai farmers were overtaxed, they couldn't afford to meet their production needs for their land rent or mortgage and the big guys came along and made them indentured servants and laborers on the land they used to own. When they kept getting taxed and over worked, they lost more and eventually went to work on someone else's land while the rice farming revenue tax continued to be paid and used, not for the Thai farmers for equipment, seed, and new farming technology, but rather to keep building roads and infrastructure to make Bangkok attractive for foreign investors. Forget about the farmer and his rice.

The big Thai guys now could get investment for tractors and new seed and technology...etc., and they could pull enough strings to get some money from the government because now the government had some foreign investment paying taxes off the back of the Thai farmer. A few years ago, Yingluck/Thaksin and the rice cartel figured they could corner the market for Thailand's rice and overproduction, so they dreamed up this scheme to hoard rice and keep it off the market which was the true goal of the rice pledging scheme. To raise the price of Thai rice on the market so the government and the Thai rice cartel boys could skim more money from the top. Buy more Ferraris and fly in more Kobe beef.

Only problem was that they forgot to tell the Indians and the Vietnamese, and they got outfoxed in the market by increased production and supply by the Indians and the Vietnamese. This stuck the Thais with holding the bag so to speak, the bag of rice, while the world rice price kept falling to a level that was below the value that the Thai government offered to pledge to Thai rice farmers. Faced with a loss on the pledge, the protesters seized the moment to handcuff Yingluck's government and use the rice pledge as their leading value proposition despite that it is a result of market decisions that were made by Thai big guys convincing Yingluck to initiate this attempt to corner the market for Thai rice.

So the real cause of the rice pledging fiasco was the faulty premise and lack of vision of the Thai elite establishmentfor years in deluding themselves in to believing that their rice know how and product was far superior to everyone else and that people all over the world would preference Thai rice for a very high premium way above competing products from Vietnam, India, Bangladesh, Myanmar, and now Cambodia. The Thai establishment always had Yingluck they could throw under the bus, if the deal to corner the market didn't go down. They could always throw her under the bus and quickly propped Suthep and his "people's council" up very quickly when the market shifted on the rice price.

So this is not about corruption within the Yingluck government about the rice pledging for populist votes. It's about the Thai rice cartel and Thai establishment attempting to corner the global rice market and convincing a naive Yingluck that it would achieve a premium price, corner market share and throw off a nice tax for the government and the Thai fat guys could line their pockets for another 5-10 years off the back of the poor Thai farmer with no teeth and one pair of worn down flip flops. Yingluck was foolish enough to believe this and had poor advisors and a set of Thai big boys who swung big enough you know whats to convince her to implement this Ponzi scheme. Crap runs downhill, so the guy most hurt was the farmer.

So there is much more to Thai rice and the rice pledging scheme than you read about in the Thai press like most issues. The Thai press should start telling the truth and arming Thais with some real historical facts and the truth about issues.

This is about thaksin wanting to ruin the very rice establishment you talk of.

Thaksin really thought he could intervene into the market and cut the middle men out. These.families among them CP are billionaires in their own right who have exploited thai farmers for many years.

So, thaksin tried to steal the loyalty of the farmers while dealing a blow to the rice exporters who are massively democrat. Unfortunately he screwed it up.

There is no agreement between the old money rice exporters and Thaksin. I believe u are mistaken.

Thaksin is too smart to not have made some concessions to the elite establishment and the rice cartel after his successful 2005 election and during his stewardship in office from 2001. The rice pledging scheme was likely to have been a bone that Thaksin threw to the rice cartel and establishment to get them some more money out of the rice game. The establishment had no problem with Thaksin until Sondhi, his former friend and business partner, had a falling out and published an article accusing Thaksin of les majeste. Sondhi and then Srimuang spearheaded PAD, a rogue group with the emotional philosophy and history of the Village Scouts, that began the task of getting rid of Thaksin.

The elite establishment had no problem with Thaksin's drug war and killings one of his few mistakes as a national leader. The Thai elite could have cared less that these guys were off the street. The US and international community virtually ignored it, up to their eyeballs in terrorism. Thaksin originally saw the rice pledging scheme as a way to appease the cartel and get them more money out of the system. The only problem Thaksin had with the elite was that he didn't step away from the trough at the end of his first term as was the Thai custom for decades and decades and instead was re-elected by a landslide with the largest voter turnout in Thai history. By 2006, with so much popular support, Thaksin probably dropped the rice pledging scheme and payoff plan and the elite got the army to take him out. You know the rest.

When rice pledging was hatched, a Thai team of rice trade and economic folks "Thai experts," and maybe some foreigners, were foolishly paid to forecast that Thailand could pull off the market corner, expand their business and get a super premium on the price. Not counting that Thaksin knew he could gain benefits with his farm constituents while at the same time "hand signaling' at some meetings with the Thai establishment and rice cartel that there would be plenty to go around when they got their $700 per ton. Once Thaksin won the landslide in 2006, he probably felt he could last without any concessions to the establishment.

As far as the resurrection of the rice pledging scheme to Yingluck's term, it's hard to figure what really transpired. There were some market related issues and Thaksin, by then in command on skype, was sure to have known it wouldn't work. But it might have been his Hail Mary pass to cause conflict and turmoil in the rice cartel and weaken the establishment and come along with money for the farmers as Robin Hood. PAD resurrected itself with Suthep in command and re-branded as PDRC to prevent the Yingluck government from executing on its promise to the farmers and to prevent Thaksin from appearing to be the white knight.

The rice is not anything that the traditional exporters can make anything from. They aren't exporting because it is too expensive.

Unless the plan all along was to screw it up? Bear in mind several of these exprters are in Vietnam and Cambodia anyway. Bear in mind that the prodemocrat business bunch are all connected by business, banking and marriages in bangkok.

It wouldn't be easy to give a favour to the rice families over any of the others.

[BlueNoseCodger]

Corruption is key reason for collapse of rice pledging scheme

Is this a picture of sacks of rice or sacks of money the real beneficiaries carried away?

Silly,

On the one hand yellows say it loses huge amounts of money (that's what a subsidy is), on the other hand you say the money has all been stolen!

If they're using Push Polls as evidence, it shows they don't have evidence!

It's like when Shampoo makers say "Our shampoo makes your hair silkier than the leading brand", that's a claim and has to be true based on science.

On the other hand, do a push poll and say "Our shampoo makes your hair silkier* than the leading brand.. *82 out of 104 people sampled agree" then that's a push poll claim, it expresses a claimed opinion which you simply obtain with a push poll.

When you see things like that, you can be certain that their shampoo does not make hair silkier, because if it did, they'd be making the science fact claim, not the push poll fiction claim.

So we can be sure corruption isn't the problem of the rice subsidy because if it was, then they'd be claiming evidence not a push poll fiction result.

The problem of the rice scheme is an over-generous buy price, coupled to an oversupply of rice in the world market driving sell price down. The fix is to simply lower the buy price.

Edited February 28, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[djjamie]

Corruption is key reason for collapse of rice pledging scheme

Is this a picture of sacks of rice or sacks of money the real beneficiaries carried away?

Silly,

On the one hand yellows say it loses huge amounts of money (that's what a subsidy is), on the other hand you say the money has all been stolen!

If they're using Push Polls as evidence, it shows they don't have evidence!

It's like when Shampoo makers say "Our shampoo makes your hair silkier than the leading brand", that's a claim and has to be true based on science.

On the other hand, do a push poll and say "Our shampoo makes your hair silkier* than the leading brand.. *82 out of 104 people sampled agree" then that's a push poll claim, it expresses a claimed opinion which you simply obtain with a push poll.

When you see things like that, you can be certain that their shampoo does not make hair silkier, because if it did, they'd be making the science fact claim, not the push poll fiction claim.

So we can be sure corruption isn't the problem of the rice subsidy because if it was, then they'd be claiming evidence not a push poll fiction result.

The problem of the rice scheme is an over-generous buy price, coupled to an oversupply of rice in the world market driving sell price down. The fix is to simply lower the buy price.

You have spun it so much that it further clarifies corruption in the scheme. Oh the economists said so too. Oh and IMF. Oh and the Word Bank. Oh and the finance secretary overseeing the scheme.

So you're adamant there is no corruption by doing a bit of research online, but international bodies, professional economists and the secretary of the scheme are all wrong. You better tell them about your shampoo theory. You may have just cracked this case wide open!

Edited February 28, 2014 by djjamie

[BlueNoseCodger]

That and the quality of rice is not good. Part of why corruption has been destroying the scheme. If the govt. actually purchase the rice it was old rice from neighboring countries, just to fill the warehouse. Whenever the were able to sell the rice, it was from the new crop. That is why they can not even give the rice back to the farmers. All their rice have been sold. That is why they have been accused of defrauding the govt.

And if YS thinks she is not at all responsible for the failure and execution of scheme, she is gravely wrong. It is like the captain of a plane that would blame his navigator, co-pilot, engineer, stewardress when the plane crashes. The captain was sleep at the helm as YS has been. She knows she is wrong. The highest position of the land has many responsibility. One of it s steering the country policy in the right direction. Of course how can she steer when she doesn't even know how to drive.

No it's not rice smuggled across the border. That's simply not true, even the most exaggerated claims amount to 1-2% of the rice production, but when you dig into the substance of the claim, it falls apart.

Do you really think a rice merchant can't tell Hom Mali grade rice from low grade grain!??

[FireMedic]

Corruption is the key reason for.....EVERYTHING BAD WITH THAILAND!! Bad road safety...corruption. Bad water safety....corruption. Bad law enforcement.....corruption. Bad land management....corruption.

I love how these lame stories keep coming out like it was the moon landing. Of course corruption is the key! What else would it be? At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they blamed a hungry herd of elephants that broke into the bank and ate the money.

[BlueNoseCodger]

Corruption is key reason for collapse of rice pledging scheme

Is this a picture of sacks of rice or sacks of money the real beneficiaries carried away?

Silly,

On the one hand yellows say it loses huge amounts of money (that's what a subsidy is), on the other hand you say the money has all been stolen!

If they're using Push Polls as evidence, it shows they don't have evidence!

It's like when Shampoo makers say "Our shampoo makes your hair silkier than the leading brand", that's a claim and has to be true based on science.

On the other hand, do a push poll and say "Our shampoo makes your hair silkier* than the leading brand.. *82 out of 104 people sampled agree" then that's a push poll claim, it expresses a claimed opinion which you simply obtain with a push poll.

When you see things like that, you can be certain that their shampoo does not make hair silkier, because if it did, they'd be making the science fact claim, not the push poll fiction claim.

So we can be sure corruption isn't the problem of the rice subsidy because if it was, then they'd be claiming evidence not a push poll fiction result.

The problem of the rice scheme is an over-generous buy price, coupled to an oversupply of rice in the world market driving sell price down. The fix is to simply lower the buy price.

You have spun it so much that it further clarifies corruption in the scheme. Oh the economists said so too. Oh and IMF. Oh and the Word Bank. Oh and the finance secretary overseeing the scheme.

So you're adamant there is no corruption by doing a bit of research online, but international bodies, professional economists and the secretary of the scheme are all wrong. You better tell them about your shampoo theory. You may have just cracked this case wide open!

"Rice Pledge Scheme responsible for silky smooth and more manageable hair, 22 out of 30 economists agree", Bangkok Poll (link).

Really if you have facts you quote facts, If you're quoting a push poll of peoples opinions, then you don't have those facts.

[Crushdepth]

Please wake me up if somebody will go to jail...

You better check into a managed care facility and have a feeding tube fitted.

[billsmart]

Would someone please explain in less general and more simple terms just how this rice-pledging scheme is supposed to have failed, and just what was the alleged corruption?

I've heard allegations that some rice is missing. Was the rice, or some percentage of it, that the government received sold and the money unaccounted for?

[klauskunkel]

Greed is the reason for collapse of rice pledging scheme, says klauskunkel

The government used the rice, which they did not own, to drive up the market price with a plan to skim from the top. This was done because there is no oversight, transparency or accountability and also because being unethical and greedy is a requirement for a cabinet position.

Driving up the price didn't work, simply because traders bought cheaper rice from other rice producing countries with a click of the mouse. This was unanticipated by the government because as a rule they do not anticipate the future, they do not understand how mouse clicks work and because they never listen to anybody who knows better and also because being inept and unqualified is a requirement for a cabinet position.

Now, after having gambled away the livelihood of Thailand's rice farmers, the government is left with a rotting stockpile of rice, no money, protests and carnage in the streets, no credibility and Chalerm. So, what's a government got to do? Blame, distort, lie, obfuscate, delay, deny, forget, point, smile, threat, confuse and above all continue being a government.

...and that's the reason for collapse of rice pledging scheme

[Thaddeus]

That and the quality of rice is not good. Part of why corruption has been destroying the scheme. If the govt. actually purchase the rice it was old rice from neighboring countries, just to fill the warehouse. Whenever the were able to sell the rice, it was from the new crop. That is why they can not even give the rice back to the farmers. All their rice have been sold. That is why they have been accused of defrauding the govt.

And if YS thinks she is not at all responsible for the failure and execution of scheme, she is gravely wrong. It is like the captain of a plane that would blame his navigator, co-pilot, engineer, stewardress when the plane crashes. The captain was sleep at the helm as YS has been. She knows she is wrong. The highest position of the land has many responsibility. One of it s steering the country policy in the right direction. Of course how can she steer when she doesn't even know how to drive.

No it's not rice smuggled across the border. That's simply not true, even the most exaggerated claims amount to 1-2% of the rice production, but when you dig into the substance of the claim, it falls apart.

Do you really think a rice merchant can't tell Hom Mali grade rice from low grade grain!??

I can see Cambodia from my kitchen window, the road I live on leads directly to it, would you mind if I used my own eyes to formulate a difference of opinion.

[rickirs]

So basically poll responders are split about 50-50 (okay 51-49) as to whether there was corruption. So how can one cite that Corruption is the key reason for collapse of the rice pldgeing program? A great headline that doesn't hold up to the article itself.

[tomyummer]

I don't know if it is corruption or sheer stupidity on behalf of the Government.

They stack on a promise to the farmers, with a good intention to improve their lives and at the same time get their votes.

Things went drastically wrong, but they never had the brain, the decency or the will to change.

The outcome is that the farmers turned against them as most of the Thai people have done.

It is still time to think of the people and stop following orders from a megalomaniac and egomaniac, criminal fugitive.

Stupidity of the general Thai population too. It's about time Thais gave a damn and started educating themselves outside of the crappy Thai soaps.

[Thaddeus]

That and the quality of rice is not good. Part of why corruption has been destroying the scheme. If the govt. actually purchase the rice it was old rice from neighboring countries, just to fill the warehouse. Whenever the were able to sell the rice, it was from the new crop. That is why they can not even give the rice back to the farmers. All their rice have been sold. That is why they have been accused of defrauding the govt.

And if YS thinks she is not at all responsible for the failure and execution of scheme, she is gravely wrong. It is like the captain of a plane that would blame his navigator, co-pilot, engineer, stewardress when the plane crashes. The captain was sleep at the helm as YS has been. She knows she is wrong. The highest position of the land has many responsibility. One of it s steering the country policy in the right direction. Of course how can she steer when she doesn't even know how to drive.

No it's not rice smuggled across the border. That's simply not true, even the most exaggerated claims amount to 1-2% of the rice production, but when you dig into the substance of the claim, it falls apart.

Do you really think a rice merchant can't tell Hom Mali grade rice from low grade grain!??

I can see Cambodia from my kitchen window, the road I live on leads directly to it, would you mind if I used my own eyes to formulate a difference of opinion.

As I was saying..........

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/707523-thailand-live-friday-28-feb-2014/page-2#entry7502338

[outsider]

You needed to conduct a survey to discover that corruption screwed the rice scam scheme? Sheesh...

[a99az]

Who would believe it!!

[dominique355]

All we can learn from this poll is that most people believe that the rice scheme failed because of corruption. All Thai governments were corrupt; under Yingluck, however, greed has reached levels never seen under prior administrations.

But, the poll does not tell us, why the rice pledging scheme really failed. Here is what I believe happened:

PT had the plan to buy all rice grown in Thailand, and Thailand being the No. 1 exporter, they figured, if they stockpile all rice grown in Thailand and don't export any, there will be a world wide shortage of rice and prices will go sky high. Then, selling the Thai rice at peak they will make billions in profit, they would certainly NOT share with the poor farmers.

Nice plan... except ... it didn't work. Thailand having a very low yield and high production cost, countries like Vietnam, Indonesia and other SEA countries quickly jumped in and cranked up their production. The world rice price fell, especially for low quality rice favored by the Thai government.

Things got worse when the Thai farmers cranked up their production and the stockpiled rice grew and grew. Pride and prejudice didn't allow Yingluck to admit that her speculations went wrong, so she kept going on. Rice deteriorates with time, which only added to the loss.

So PT tried some shady deals, maybe to launder some money, but it was too late.

Then PT and Yingluck made the next mistake: To dissolve the House before securing the finances to pay the rice pledged.

This administration is simply too dumb to pull a deal of this magnitude. Cost for the Thai (i.e. Bangkokian) tax payer so far: THB 700 Billion.

[MrSlatersParrot]

And here's my take.

Do we remember the dems rice pledging the scheme?

What followed was in theory te farmers were to get 12000 baht per ton but many complained the merchants would only pay 7000 baht after claiming the rice was either poor quality or too much moisture.

This was big news.

So the PTP bypassed these merchants and offered 15000 baht.

We have'ny seen any complaints from farmers about being stitched up but only now with the protests and the alledged partial EC not promoting the completion of the election farmers are unpaid.

We had the permanent official first claim there was wide spread corruption only to clarify her remarks that she actually said there was the potential for wide spread corruption from government officials.

The government carried out a stock take didn't it?

They found discrepancies in one mill i recall.

This followed from previous scare mongering about the stock being poisoned (UNTRUE)

Scaremongering that the stock was rotten UNTRUE).

Let!s not forget the rubber farmers.

The farmers who protested in Ban Krut who came from Nakhon Si Thammet demanded 120 baht per kilo.

The farmers associations throughout the country accepted 90 baht per kilo and the world price currently is 60 baht.

Those fsrmers from Nakhon joined Suthep in bangkok as they were politically linked.

Well is there corruption or not?

This you can only prove through a full investigation but the opposition, now Suthep, only want a kangaroo court.

There was a bumper crop of rice and I read that the indians put for the first time on the open market 4 million tons and the vietnames too are suffering but the rice it should keep for up to 5 years.

The government is holding at a loss but protecting its indigenous industry. Sure it's protectionism like the Common Agricultural policy.

[Thaddeus]

And here's my take.

Do we remember the dems rice pledging the scheme?

What followed was in theory te farmers were to get 12000 baht per ton but many complained the merchants would only pay 7000 baht after claiming the rice was either poor quality or too much moisture.

The Dems policy, as far as I am concerned, did not specify the price of the rice. The farmers were paid directly, a true subsidy based on how much they farmed.

The millers have always beaten the farmers down on the price using the excuses of too damp, not good quality etc

Which is why most of them jumped on this doomed scheme, they didn't have to haggle with the millers any longer.

[bangon04]

Who says it has collapsed? I was under the impression that the scam scheme is proceeding exactly as it was planned to.

[SamMunich]

Thai at Heart:

Yes. It hit the Bangkok post today.. Spread through the well known chinese route to Hong Kong. Yeah right. 1.5bn smuggled out through a supposedly secret chinese tunnel.

I think you might find that this technique moves billions of USD for more than just the shinawats.

All gossip and bulls**t. This isn't a soap opera or james bond. Thaksin with his desert island using ancient smuggling routes to Hong Kong. Oh please.

_______________________________________

Sorry, but that's reality, not James Bond stuff.

There is a name for it as well, though I would not know. But what I know is, that this is used rather widespread for the simple reason, that it moves money without a trace in any books, and even real BIG amounts. It is used by Chinese and also Arab traders etc. The U.S. of A. said Al Quaida was funded this way and that's quite likely true (I hate to agree with the State Department). Basis of it is the absolute trust between the nodes/people. I can give such a guy (if I knew one) say 10,000 US$ and tell him I want it in another country and city. He would organize it, that the money would be available at the destination, and fast too.

This is perfectly suitable to move corruption money.