Red shirts target EC for shutdown next Monday

[Hawkman]

Can see what morals and ethics the Red Shirts have by targeting anti-corruption offices. What next, will they target Human Rights organisations and anything else that won't let Thaksin and his cronies get away with everything?

But, alas, what can you do, when all the propaganda they feed to their followers is that these organisations are biased and ruled by Elites, then they believe and suck it all up. One day they should really ask themselves, why do PTP not invest in education for Thailand - of all the billions that's been stolen away through corruption, that money could have been put to better use and improved the education and lives for millions of their supporters and given them a good chance in life. Not just by PTP but the Dems too. PTP haven't exactly hid their boasts that low education means people are easier to control, which is true, but we all want to see Thai people given a fair chance throughout the country.

But no, they have been fed a lie; a real shame. If Thaksin wants to be a hero, he's made his millions, why need more and more power. Invest in your heartland, make people have hope, then the other side might start to forgive you too. Won't happen though; this country really needs a restart button

Edited February 28, 2014 by Hawkman

[CaptainPeacock]

...it gets depressing by the day, when is there ever going to be be some POSITIVE news

[Nalo56]

Forgive me if I'm confused, if the PDRC has been clocking many of the government offices for some time and now the Red Shirts are starting to do the same thing, wouldn't this mean that both do not agree with the government? So what group is backing the government?

[Nickymaster]

How many days before we get to 180?

2 months and 5 days or something. I believe it was May 5.

[Pimay1]

How many days before we get to 180?

The bill was voted down November 11, 2013.

Monday November 11, 2013

11/11/13

plus 180 days is

Saturday May 10, 2014

5/10/14

[Fryslan boppe]

Whether one agrees or not with this thing, as is obviously the case with many comments in this thread, the major theme of this action by the UDD/Red Shirts is to expose Elitist rooted and Elitist-friendly so-called Independent agencies, including the judiciary.

That the Elitists had plans to achieve their coup intentions via these agencies, following a softening-up process on the streets, is common knowledge. The electoral majority know that this is the preferred method to nullify their votes and knew the plan will unfold as it has...They are not amused nor fooled.

The major shift in 2014 however, is the vastly increased swath of a politicized populace, regardless how the Elitists try to denigrate their educational levels, who are fully aware of these shenanigans, fronted by seemingly lawful entities.

Seeing a group of these people manifesting this insight, be it at the EC or other such entities, ought to give the Elitists pause...That their perfidy from the past is now exposed. Given technology and its ubiquitous communication channels, they can no longer hide these self-serving motives and actions.

No matter how hard the PAD-Dem's seek to normalize these entities, and to validate their actions, it just doesn't fly. When only one side engages in this attempt to normalize the abnormal, ought to be indication enough of reality. Especially when it is those who are electorally-challenged...Their motives are obvious for all to see.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Fryslan boppe

[outsider]

A page out of Suthep's tactical handbook eh lads?

[wolf5370]

What continues to amaze me is how an Entity charged with running elections has been elevated to the filter for all things governmental going forward seems we may soon have to check with them before takin' a leak...... who came up with that idea to give the EC the mandate over a caretaker government and when did that become law...? I never heard of it before (going back many many years) this current mess... .... checks and balances.. seem to be way out of whack..oh never mind... it's checkbooks and increasing balances.. never mind my bad..I guess the belief that there could actually be a forthright independent oversight agency here..is just a pipe dream...

There are rules that a care-taker government has to follow. This care-taker government seems to be having a hard time following those rules.

There needs to be someone that decides what is allowed and what isn't allowed. In this case it is the Election Commission. If it wasn't them, it would be someone else.

Of course... but they aren't constitutional lawyers... so they have to call somebody to check out which move to make.... now I am no expert in corruption but anytime there are external pipelines to another entity who "knows" more than you it's just another place for the "c" word to slip into the mix... Not sure there are "independent oversight committees" here as that would imply transparency and integrity...personal integrity and I have yet to see some 21 years later that personal integrity trumps baht...wait I have too seen one.. The new immigration lady at Sinkhon Hua Hin..she rocks... no grease needed..(saw her flatly refuse it) she does her job and is an asset and should be a poster girl for integrity and lack of greed.....

also don't think the ones counting the beans in an election should have as much sway as they have... conflict of interest comes to mind..but nothing is perfect... also I think history may teach us that a lot of mistakes were made by the EC itself in all of this ...but that knowledge base is yet to be completely written ..Cheers

Caretaker Government is meant as a stop gap during the run up to an election - between Royal dissolution and new election - therefore, it makes sense that it is under the remit of the EC - the problem is it was never meant to be for an extended period, this caused problems in 2006 and is now. That is the reason there is a further check/balance that limits the maximum time between dissolution and new formation, and failing that an interim Gov is appointed via the MPs sitting, as a way of relieving the EC of executive type responsibility which, as you say, they are ill-equipped for.

BTW another "integrity beats baht" for you - the CC Judges that turned down Thaksin's attempted bribe.

[wolf5370]

Whether one agrees or not with this thing, as is obviously the case with many comments in this thread, the major theme of this action by the UDD/Red Shirts is to expose Elitist rooted and Elitist-friendly so-called Independent agencies, including the judiciary.

That the Elitists had plans to achieve their coup intentions via these agencies, following a softening-up process on the streets, is common knowledge. The electoral majority know that this is the preferred method to nullify their votes and knew the plan will unfold as it has...They are not amused nor fooled.

The major shift in 2014 however, is the vastly increased swath of a politicized populace, regardless how the Elitists try to denigrate their educational levels, who are fully aware of these shenanigans, fronted by seemingly lawful entities.

Seeing a group of these people manifesting this insight, be it at the EC or other such entities, ought to give the Elitists pause...That their perfidy from the past is now exposed. Given technology and its ubiquitous communication channels, they can no longer hide these self-serving motives and actions.

No matter how hard the PAD-Dem's seek to normalize these entities, and to validate their actions, it just doesn't fly. When only one side engages in this attempt to normalize the abnormal, ought to be indication enough of reality. Especially when it is those who are electorally-challenged...Their motives are obvious for all to see.

Pure speculation and hyperbole! Wish both sides would shut up about "Elite" this and "Elite" that - BOTH sides are elite FFK - just look at the Shin family tree and the wealth in that family. Look at the Red leadership and the coalition and PTP leadership. Not many dirt poor farmers in the mix eh?

Suthep was wrong in ordering the invading of government offices - the Reds are even more so invading independent state offices (by the fact that they are independent and set up purely as checks/balances). You can not spin it to be other - especially when some posters have been going on for months now about illegally invading offices and calling Suthep a criminal for it.

Why would it give anyone pause? Other than PTP of course - it plays directly into Suthep's hands - and the hands of the extremist Yellows too - it delayes the election further, taking it past the cut off point - and it is another step towards a coup. Insane action, truly insane.

As to listing (so called) Elitist assets, this means only one of two things: Either a mighty shot in the foot as there are very few clean hands in parliament; or being totally biased and therefore ignored as Red propaganda, its not like much that has come out of the war room in the last few months since it was created has been credible, and much quickly blown out of the water s made up or incredibly inaccurate. The latter is more likely of course, and hence, will be ignored by all but the already converted.

[rubl]

"The Nonthaburi-based red-shirt followers have vowed to shut down all independent organizations"

We are democracy lovers and therefore ... ... ...

[MunterHunter]

Yeah, go ahead... Block and close down the EC. Awesome move!

Not only will you delay the election, but if they break into the EC office their might even be grounds to invalidate the entire election... They will definitely stop any chances of a "free and fair" election!

What a bunch of muppets!

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[OutToGetYou]

They said at their silly 'war drum' meeting last week that they had three targets.

The PDRC

The Military

The courts

In typical red shirt cowardly fashion they have gone for the softest target of the three.

They don't have the balls or the numbers to go after either of the other two.

One thing that they won't have realised up till now there have been no red shirt rally sites to attack..... there is now

Up till now they have enjoyed nightly attacks on the PDRC sites, now the situation is becoming equalized.

I am waiting for the first grenade and shooting attacks to be reported against these red shirts. If they don't come, then I think it is obvious who have been behind the now over 70 attacks on their opponents.

If confrontations happen, you can pretty much be assured it will be from the red shirt side and the PDRC will happily oblige them.

The army are out running the show now and they have armed themselves for protection. Not via a command from the PM, PTP or the CMPO... They have come out under their own steam, this says a lot. The army acting interdependently to protect the protesters without endorsement from the government... must be very embarrassing for YL.

It is getting nearer and the red shirt army are on their way, all 2000 of them.

They will run back north at the first sign of trouble.... huh, and they think they have the numbers of combatants to successfully challenge the military?.... Hilarious.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Aye, that will be a smart thing to do. Then the EC can't meet and ok the government's plans for raising money to pay the farmers.

Complete and utter idiots. Duh!

Are they complete idiots? Apparently so.

Don't they realise that when Yingluck asks them why they haven't worked on organising the elections, all the EC have to say is that some of their supporters prevented them from working by barricading their offices!!

You couldn't make it up..

I can imagine Yingluck telling them - OK, good idea but let's not do it shall we. Perhaps we can save it for another time.

[OutToGetYou]

Let me add that when they go after the NACC and the EC, then as they have declared the independent courts, they are directly attacking the most vivid element of democracy... the checks and balances system.

They are in direct opposition to the constitution on about 20 different levels. Much more severe than shutting down or occupying government offices of a defunct and illegitimate government.

The other agencies are very much legitimate.

[OutToGetYou]

Aye, that will be a smart thing to do. Then the EC can't meet and ok the government's plans for raising money to pay the farmers.

Complete and utter idiots. Duh!

Are they complete idiots? Apparently so.

Don't they realise that when Yingluck asks them why they haven't worked on organising the elections, all the EC have to say is that some of their supporters prevented them from working by barricading their offices!!

You couldn't make it up..

I can imagine Yingluck telling them - OK, good idea but let's not do it shall we. Perhaps we can save it for another time.

Yingluck and the PTP do not want these elections to be completed. They know they won't get a mandate to govern, and they know the remaining ballots will be no votes making only about 88% of parliament, way short to convene parliament.

But of course they can never admit this can they.

Once completed, the election will have to be voided by default and under the constitution a new decree has to be called for for fresh elections and YL and Co know full well that the Dems will pounce on it and take a storming victory.

The EC will NEVER grant those loans for the rice farmers. YL will be lucky to get 5 million votes by the time new elections are completed... She knows all this.

Theyare just slowing everything down so they can steal as much as they can in the remaining time in office and shred and burn as much paperwork as they can leaving everything clean for their departure.

They need time, nothing else. Everything will have to left almost un-investigatable.

[kimamey]

What continues to amaze me is how an Entity charged with running elections has been elevated to the filter for all things governmental going forward seems we may soon have to check with them before takin' a leak...... who came up with that idea to give the EC the mandate over a caretaker government and when did that become law...? I never heard of it before (going back many many years) this current mess... .... checks and balances.. seem to be way out of whack..oh never mind... it's checkbooks and increasing balances.. never mind my bad..I guess the belief that there could actually be a forthright independent oversight agency here..is just a pipe dream...

There are rules that a care-taker government has to follow. This care-taker government seems to be having a hard time following those rules.

There needs to be someone that decides what is allowed and what isn't allowed. In this case it is the Election Commission. If it wasn't them, it would be someone else.

Of course... but they aren't constitutional lawyers... so they have to call somebody to check out which move to make.... now I am no expert in corruption but anytime there are external pipelines to another entity who "knows" more than you it's just another place for the "c" word to slip into the mix... Not sure there are "independent oversight committees" here as that would imply transparency and integrity...personal integrity and I have yet to see some 21 years later that personal integrity trumps baht...wait I have too seen one.. The new immigration lady at Sinkhon Hua Hin..she rocks... no grease needed..(saw her flatly refuse it) she does her job and is an asset and should be a poster girl for integrity and lack of greed.....

also don't think the ones counting the beans in an election should have as much sway as they have... conflict of interest comes to mind..but nothing is perfect... also I think history may teach us that a lot of mistakes were made by the EC itself in all of this ...but that knowledge base is yet to be completely written ..Cheers

Caretaker Government is meant as a stop gap during the run up to an election - between Royal dissolution and new election - therefore, it makes sense that it is under the remit of the EC - the problem is it was never meant to be for an extended period, this caused problems in 2006 and is now. That is the reason there is a further check/balance that limits the maximum time between dissolution and new formation, and failing that an interim Gov is appointed via the MPs sitting, as a way of relieving the EC of executive type responsibility which, as you say, they are ill-equipped for.

BTW another "integrity beats baht" for you - the CC Judges that turned down Thaksin's attempted bribe.

Didn't the supposedly biased CC rule against the Democrats recently when they tried get the election annulled?

[kimamey]

Whether one agrees or not with this thing, as is obviously the case with many comments in this thread, the major theme of this action by the UDD/Red Shirts is to expose Elitist rooted and Elitist-friendly so-called Independent agencies, including the judiciary.

That the Elitists had plans to achieve their coup intentions via these agencies, following a softening-up process on the streets, is common knowledge. The electoral majority know that this is the preferred method to nullify their votes and knew the plan will unfold as it has...They are not amused nor fooled.

The major shift in 2014 however, is the vastly increased swath of a politicized populace, regardless how the Elitists try to denigrate their educational levels, who are fully aware of these shenanigans, fronted by seemingly lawful entities.

Seeing a group of these people manifesting this insight, be it at the EC or other such entities, ought to give the Elitists pause...That their perfidy from the past is now exposed. Given technology and its ubiquitous communication channels, they can no longer hide these self-serving motives and actions.

No matter how hard the PAD-Dem's seek to normalize these entities, and to validate their actions, it just doesn't fly. When only one side engages in this attempt to normalize the abnormal, ought to be indication enough of reality. Especially when it is those who are electorally-challenged...Their motives are obvious for all to see.

That the Elitists had plans to achieve their coup intentions via these agencies, following a softening-up process on the streets, is common knowledge.

Are you sure about that?

[Dogmatix]

What continues to amaze me is how an Entity charged with running elections has been elevated to the filter for all things governmental going forward seems we may soon have to check with them before takin' a leak...... who came up with that idea to give the EC the mandate over a caretaker government and when did that become law...? I never heard of it before (going back many many years) this current mess... .... checks and balances.. seem to be way out of whack..oh never mind... it's checkbooks and increasing balances.. never mind my bad..I guess the belief that there could actually be a forthright independent oversight agency here..is just a pipe dream...

The maximum period between dissolution of Parliament and forming a new government permitted by the constitution is 60 days and 30 days is allowed before convening parliament. This is quite long compared to many Western parliamentary democracies but governments are supposed to prepare for all budgetary requirements they expect within the 60 day caretaker period before dissolving parliament. Then they don't need to request approvals for massive borrowings from the EC. The Yingluck government failed for its reasons to do this and is now blaming the EC, the protestors, the unions and just about everyone else for its own stupidity. The EC commission could undoubtedly be sued for malfeasance if they approved govt borrowing of 1% of GDP. Get serious.

[kimamey]

Aye, that will be a smart thing to do. Then the EC can't meet and ok the government's plans for raising money to pay the farmers.

Complete and utter idiots. Duh!

Are they complete idiots? Apparently so.

Don't they realise that when Yingluck asks them why they haven't worked on organising the elections, all the EC have to say is that some of their supporters prevented them from working by barricading their offices!!

You couldn't make it up..

I can imagine Yingluck telling them - OK, good idea but let's not do it shall we. Perhaps we can save it for another time.

Yingluck and the PTP do not want these elections to be completed. They know they won't get a mandate to govern, and they know the remaining ballots will be no votes making only about 88% of parliament, way short to convene parliament.

But of course they can never admit this can they.

Once completed, the election will have to be voided by default and under the constitution a new decree has to be called for for fresh elections and YL and Co know full well that the Dems will pounce on it and take a storming victory.

The EC will NEVER grant those loans for the rice farmers. YL will be lucky to get 5 million votes by the time new elections are completed... She knows all this.

Theyare just slowing everything down so they can steal as much as they can in the remaining time in office and shred and burn as much paperwork as they can leaving everything clean for their departure.

They need time, nothing else. Everything will have to left almost un-investigatable.

I still wouldn't be surprised if the PTP won the next election. They may not be liked but the alternative is voting for the Democrats and many wouldn't do that under any circumstances.

[Suriya4]

"The Nonthaburi-based red-shirt followers have vowed to shut down all independent organizations"

We are democracy lovers and therefore ... ... ...

An eye for an eye.

[wolf5370]

Aye, that will be a smart thing to do. Then the EC can't meet and ok the government's plans for raising money to pay the farmers.

Complete and utter idiots. Duh!

Are they complete idiots? Apparently so.

Don't they realise that when Yingluck asks them why they haven't worked on organising the elections, all the EC have to say is that some of their supporters prevented them from working by barricading their offices!!

You couldn't make it up..

I can imagine Yingluck telling them - OK, good idea but let's not do it shall we. Perhaps we can save it for another time.

Yingluck and the PTP do not want these elections to be completed. They know they won't get a mandate to govern, and they know the remaining ballots will be no votes making only about 88% of parliament, way short to convene parliament.

But of course they can never admit this can they.

Once completed, the election will have to be voided by default and under the constitution a new decree has to be called for for fresh elections and YL and Co know full well that the Dems will pounce on it and take a storming victory.

The EC will NEVER grant those loans for the rice farmers. YL will be lucky to get 5 million votes by the time new elections are completed... She knows all this.

Theyare just slowing everything down so they can steal as much as they can in the remaining time in office and shred and burn as much paperwork as they can leaving everything clean for their departure.

They need time, nothing else. Everything will have to left almost un-investigatable.

I still wouldn't be surprised if the PTP won the next election. They may not be liked but the alternative is voting for the Democrats and many wouldn't do that under any circumstances.

I agree.

The Red propaganda machine is also alive and well in the heartlands - listening to Thai TV or just people around me, many blame the Dems for the failure of the Gov. to pay the owed rice monies/securing the loan to pay it, and much else - These hapless people are as mushrooms - kept in the dark and fed sh!t all day long.

This is a real problem, more than it ever was, with Red Schools and Red Villages etc (Mao style) - there can never be a free democracy while there is blatant brainwashing going on. Even if the Dems were to stand, they could not get there word out in the North, the Gov. controls the media (at least the media that is believed up here) and the Dems are attacked anytime they try and canvass. The people are not hearing all sides of the argument - any argument - so how can they make an informed choice about what is best for them or what has been delivered and what not, and why.

I can understand why the people first followed the Reds - and even Thaksin - after all they/he purportedly had their best interests at heart - at least more so than the others ever had up until TRT. The same is often the case, the dispossessed as the poor were, grab for the straw, ride the wave - and end up unwittingly being sucked in and under - missing the point at which they should have disembarked and found a new wave to carry them.

A division is being sought - the hope that making the majority a set of brainwashed minions to control the rest that are not, is Maoist and not democratic - winning an election by such means is not democratic either, any more than pointing a gun at the voter would be. It also does not work - Mao had to execute many of the teachers, entertainers and writers, the rest he sent for "re-education" - that would not happen here (thankfully), so there will always be a dispossessed - and with more modern media like social networks and internet blogs, it will become harder and harder to silence them - thus it either leads to oppression and suppression, or a split (numbers depending). Mao was a strong leader, after he died, the gang of four lasted a short time and never again did the leadership find a suitable replacement - love was replaced with iron - and so when Thaksin passes, who will stand behind YL and those others in the leadership right now?

[SICHONSTEVE]

Yeah, go ahead... Block and close down the EC. Awesome move!

Not only will you delay the election, but if they break into the EC office their might even be grounds to invalidate the entire election... They will definitely stop any chances of a "free and fair" election!

What a bunch of muppets!

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I hadn't thought about the invalidation aspect - through interfering with a neutral official/legal bodies work!!!

Yes, that may well be the case.

[khunken]

This has to be a Monty Pythonesque strategy.

The PCAD have been actively campaigning and partially preventing the election which is incomplete.

So the red shirts are going to complete the job by blocking the EC. Wonderful.

Suthep must be laughing his socks off. 'Hey boys & girls, need any help!'

Edited February 28, 2014 by khunken

[plachon]

But of course they can never admit this can they.

Once completed, the election will have to be voided by default and under the constitution a new decree has to be called for for fresh elections and YL and Co know full well that the Dems will pounce on it and take a storming victory.

The EC will NEVER grant those loans for the rice farmers. YL will be lucky to get 5 million votes by the time new elections are completed... She knows all this.

Theyare just slowing everything down so they can steal as much as they can in the remaining time in office and shred and burn as much paperwork as they can leaving everything clean for their departure.

They need time, nothing else. Everything will have to left almost un-investigatable.

I still wouldn't be surprised if the PTP won the next election. They may not be liked but the alternative is voting for the Democrats and many wouldn't do that under any circumstances.

I agree.

The Red propaganda machine is also alive and well in the heartlands - listening to Thai TV or just people around me, many blame the Dems for the failure of the Gov. to pay the owed rice monies/securing the loan to pay it, and much else - These hapless people are as mushrooms - kept in the dark and fed sh!t all day long.

This is a real problem, more than it ever was, with Red Schools and Red Villages etc (Mao style) - there can never be a free democracy while there is blatant brainwashing going on. Even if the Dems were to stand, they could not get there word out in the North, the Gov. controls the media (at least the media that is believed up here) and the Dems are attacked anytime they try and canvass. The people are not hearing all sides of the argument - any argument - so how can they make an informed choice about what is best for them or what has been delivered and what not, and why.

I can understand why the people first followed the Reds - and even Thaksin - after all they/he purportedly had their best interests at heart - at least more so than the others ever had up until TRT. The same is often the case, the dispossessed as the poor were, grab for the straw, ride the wave - and end up unwittingly being sucked in and under - missing the point at which they should have disembarked and found a new wave to carry them.

A division is being sought - the hope that making the majority a set of brainwashed minions to control the rest that are not, is Maoist and not democratic - winning an election by such means is not democratic either, any more than pointing a gun at the voter would be. It also does not work - Mao had to execute many of the teachers, entertainers and writers, the rest he sent for "re-education" - that would not happen here (thankfully), so there will always be a dispossessed - and with more modern media like social networks and internet blogs, it will become harder and harder to silence them - thus it either leads to oppression and suppression, or a split (numbers depending). Mao was a strong leader, after he died, the gang of four lasted a short time and never again did the leadership find a suitable replacement - love was replaced with iron - and so when Thaksin passes, who will stand behind YL and those others in the leadership right now?

Interesting post and I largely concur with it, having seen the Red propaganda machine in action first hand in Isan during the 2010 troubles, when totally twisted and blatantly incorrect versions of what happened in April-May violence were turning up as VCDs in villages and being lapped up as fact by the "hapless mushrooms". They swallowed it hook, line and sinker and as you say, no matter what was the truth of the matter, were being turned into Democrat Party hating automatons for life. Thus, every piece of Red-instigated violence could either be turned into a justifiable act or it could be negated altogether, by fabricating a total lie that it was in fact violence that was a/ done by the other side; b/ the work of a "third party" and the Redshirts seen in the video evidence were fake Reds'; or c/ the violence never really happened at all and was a figment of their enemies' imagination, as with Holocaust deniers' rationality. Thus, burning down the WTC or Sala Klangs in Isaan was not really the work of Redshirts at all, and Isaan villagers will happily lap it up, as with Mao-style propaganda as you suggest.

But what interests me, and I realise you are much closer to the ground than me and seem to have good insight, is who are the "brains" behind this Red propaganda? Is it a group or groups funded directly by Thaksin and pushing for a genuine pustch of the present regime, as suggested in the original Finland Plot rumours, or are these more fundamental rebels, who are genuinely believing they can create a Maoist type state in Thailand and are relatively autonomous of Thaksin's funds and desires (as perhaps Thida, Weng and their mob have been at times)? The dynamics and sources of inspiration of this Red propaganda movement are curious, as it seems to be so ahistorical at this moment in history......any thoughts?